I have a HK 91 preban that I was asked to do some load development for and for the life of me I can't get it better than around a 2MOA shooter.  Granted the worst group was about 3.5MOA.  I've tried Black Hills, FGMM, Privi Match along with 4 loads I've used successfully in a couple of my guns and it just doesn't seem to be the shooter the owner wants it to be.

It doesn't have a high round count.  I was the original owner, purchased new in 1985 and put less than 500 through it before I sold it a decade later and it's had maybe another 200-300 rounds per the current owner.

And bottom line not well.  As point of reference the FGMM, Black Hills and two of my loads shot sub .5 MOA.  

The HK trigger is of course awful with creep and and travel but I don't feel it was that big a factor in the groupings.   We shot 3 groups of FGGM, Privi and Black Hills, 2 of 165gr SP (.3 MOA in my Savage), 168gr AMax, 147gr FMJ, 178gr AMax, 175gr SMK and 180gr RN.  The group sizes varied by 1 to 1.5 MOA.  Surprisingly or maybe not, the 147gr FMJ bulk surplus ammo had the second best group.  

My current recommendation is he sell it and replace it since he's looking for something with more precision than we're seeing but I thought I'd just get a second guess from everyone.

If you're after accuracy, sell the HK and get a Larue OBR

It's a battle rifle and not a PSG-1.  Are you using irons or optics?  A trigger job would certainly improve things but it just depends on what you are after, accuracy or HK91 coolness.

What did you get the sub .5 MOA with, a bolt gun?

I'll send the Larue recommendation along.   I offered up some generic thoughts that a quality 308 AR should get him groups at least half as small but it's not like if you have regrets after selling it you can just go out and get one off the shelf. :)  I ended up telling him to make a list of what he wants and prioritize each want and that would determine what he should do.

Yes on the other question, the 0.5 was a bolt gun.   Best I've ever managed with a semi is 3/4 MOA semi-consistently (I'm a moderate shot at best) and that is with a couple of tailored loads and only with two rifles out of a few over the years.  

I'd mounted a Vortex PST I had laying around to it which has proven to be a decent glass for me.

The best you can hope for is 1.5 MOA with a GOOD TRIGGER.


It's Still alot better than the 4 to 8 MOA I get with my FN FAL rifles.

Minute of man to five hundred meters?

It's good to go.

Thanks all!

This.  

When these rifles were being fielded in Europe in the '50's-80s they were "better than what the Commies had" so that made them awesome. In fact it made them legendary.

Now, not so much, especially in comparison with modern designs.

2 moa is bad for a service rifle?

I was able to get my Springfield SAR-3
(Made in Greece on G3 machines) to
sub 1/2 minute by using the muzzle
brake as a harmonic tuner. If your
rifle has the same as mine, it should
help you tremendously.

It's a bird cage with a wire spring
detent at the rear & straight knurls
on the barrel to keep it from working
off when firing. I stumbled on the
procedure when I read up on the
Browning Boss system many
years ago. It allows you to tune
your barrel to match your ammo.

I bench rested the gun, and shot
groups of 3 at 100 yards, turning the
brake 3 clicks between each group.
I could see from my targets that each
time I indexed the brake, my groups
would get a little bigger, or smaller,
but all of them would move around
each time. After about 15 groups,
one went to 3 rounds almost touching.
I went 3 clicks further and the next group
opened back up. I backed up 3 clicks
and left it alone for several years now.
All of that was done with a Redfield 3x9
& Federal Gold Metal Match 168 Gr boat-
tails and the really crappy factory trigger.
I should really have that fixed, but I manage
with it like it is.

IM me your phone number & we can
talk live, if you want.

Later!

John

Very interesting and thanks for the generous offer John!  I'll definitely pass that along.  The big GS of the year is this weekend and he's going to wander around and see what the going ask for a 91 is.   Not sure if he's going to sell or not, it's one of those things you'll regret either way I think.   I know I do.

Not buying the sub 1/2 minute SAR 3

That's some good Wall of Claim material right there.


http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_17/51___ARFCOM_1_MOA_ALL_DAY_LONG__Challenge_.html

Yup on both counts... And I own an SG1... I wish it was 1MOA all day...

The Bundeswehr was using the G3 with a match trigger and scope as a DMR in AFG. They seemed to really like them there. Pretty good indicator that accuracy is better than a typical battle rifle.

That's the SG-1

which is pretty much a G3



 

Sure a G3 hand selected for accuracy and then further accurized with a match trigger, sniper stock and optic.

Shooting a PTR-91 prone at 100 m seems to be a sub 2MOA weapon.  A good bit of that is probably me too.  

Is there a difference in a heavy barrel PTR and an HK that would explain this?

Pretty sure we all saw the movie Heat... Val Kilmer coundn't hit shit with the 91...

Ok.  Challenge accepted.
I have to re-scope the SAR-3.
Elevation adjustment on the
current scope died.

When I get the new scope & zero
it, I'll post pics here and call in
my witnesses. It probably won't
happen until later in the summer.

I can shoot 600 yards at that range,
but I'll do groups at 100, 200, & 300
yards.

See ya around.

John

I have a 93 & a 91 that both have PSG1 trigger packs in them. Both will do 1.5 with handloads I worked up for them. The 93 can get closer to 1 moa.
I use it to blast prairie dogs out to a bit past 400 meters.

Try a PSG1 trigger, or if he isn't attached to it like I am, (dad bought me the 91 in the late 70s and I thought it was the most coolest awesome rifle in the world since I could barely lift it.)  sell it and buy an SR25.

I haven't priced a PSG trigger
group in years. I just looked
at HK Parts, and remembered
why I don't have one!

Who is the guy who does the
trigger jobs on stock trigger
groups. I always wanted to
send mine off, but I haven't
gotten around to it yet.

I just found Williams.

John