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6/17/2013 4:21:35 PM
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blackta6
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Posted: 4/20/2012 4:19:19 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
Are they the same? Looking at replacing the cocking handle on my C93 but I am having a hard time finding a US made handle.
"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life." Theodore Roosevelt

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Silvertip_3
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Posted: 4/20/2012 5:00:30 PM
[Last Edit: 4/20/2012 5:04:31 PM by Silvertip_3]
The cocking handles are the same. But the cocking handle supports are different for the 91 vs the 93. Here are two links to U.S. made handles. Both ads only mention the 91 but they will also fit the 93.

http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-US-Made-Cocking-Handle-125p376.htm

http://scorpion-arms.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=44

I think both Adam's and Scorpion's are the same product from PTR.

If you doubt me, look at RTG Products ad for his German made 91 cocking handles. Again these are not U.S.made products, but at the bottom of the page he says that they will fit the 93 also.

http://www.robertrtg.com/g3cockinghandle.html
blackta6
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Posted: 4/20/2012 5:15:10 PM
[Last Edit: 4/20/2012 5:26:39 PM by blackta6]
"HK21 & HK93 Owners: These cocking handle springs and pins will work perfect on the HK21, 33/93 and most other HK style weapons."

Not totally doubting you, but his add doesn't say the handle, just the pin and spring.

ETA: Just called Adam, he said that they are not the same, and no one is making a US cocking handle for the 93s.
"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life." Theodore Roosevelt

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Holescreek
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Posted: 4/20/2012 8:27:50 PM
[Last Edit: 4/20/2012 8:32:22 PM by Holescreek]
Some of you may know that one of my "hobbies" is blueprinting parts that I may someday want to replicate. I use fairly sophisticated optical scanning and contour tracing equipment for most of the small stuff then transferr the scans into CAD. Until a few minutes ago, I've never compared an HK33 cocking handle to anything else. I scanned my HK33 cocking handle on my last build before I put the new aluminum handle on it (easier to scan without the plastic crap getting in the way). I already had a scan of a Cetme cocking handle in my file. I was able to pull both scans together in CAD and overlay them using the pivot hole as the common reference point and the shapes matched up nearly identically.

Based on the outside profile in relation to the pivot hole I believe that a Cetme handle would work on an HK33. That said, I don't think there is any difference between the Cetme and HK91 cocking handle at all.

Oddly enough, I took a photo of an HK33 (modified) cocking handle over the top of an HK91 ckocking handle. They are the same except for the groove the leg of the spring rides in.


I did the same thing in my Cetme PSG1 build, top is an HK91 cocking handle, bottom is a modified Cetme handle:
blackta6
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Posted: 4/23/2012 10:11:28 PM
Originally Posted By Holescreek:
Some of you may know that one of my "hobbies" is blueprinting parts that I may someday want to replicate. I use fairly sophisticated optical scanning and contour tracing equipment for most of the small stuff then transferr the scans into CAD. Until a few minutes ago, I've never compared an HK33 cocking handle to anything else. I scanned my HK33 cocking handle on my last build before I put the new aluminum handle on it (easier to scan without the plastic crap getting in the way). I already had a scan of a Cetme cocking handle in my file. I was able to pull both scans together in CAD and overlay them using the pivot hole as the common reference point and the shapes matched up nearly identically.



Thanks Holescreek! PTR is missing out on properly marketing their handle than.
"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life." Theodore Roosevelt

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Rhinelander
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Posted: 4/23/2012 10:49:42 PM
They are not the same...Adam helped me out with correct one. The pivot and camming surface angles are different. Someone had installed G3 cocking handle on my 53 and it made it nearly impossible to cock because the bolt wasn't fully unlocking.
Holescreek
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Posted: 4/24/2012 3:56:19 PM
[Last Edit: 4/24/2012 6:43:42 PM by Holescreek]
I am indeed fortunate then to have gotten the only HK33 cocking handle that (other than the slot location) is identical to a HK91 in profile and camming surface location. Here is an overlay of the HK33 trace and an HK91 trace using the pivot hole as the common locator. You will see that there are minor variations in the edges due to the manufacturing processes. The edge scans were taken with a point spread of .05 mm. The HK33 scan is the one with the rounded ears on the end where the plastic cocking handle attaches.

No big deal to me how the information is interpreted, just thought I'd share. BTW, the HK33 handle I traced is in use in my 33, and the 91 handle traced is in my PSG1 cetme. Both work flawlessly.

blackta6
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Posted: 4/24/2012 11:04:00 PM
[Last Edit: 4/24/2012 11:04:40 PM by blackta6]
Rhinelander can you take measurements off of the cam pin hole comparing your G3 handle and the HK53 you got from Adam?
"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life." Theodore Roosevelt

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JPB1
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Posted: 4/25/2012 5:48:35 PM
[Last Edit: 4/25/2012 5:53:41 PM by JPB1]
Originally Posted By Holescreek:
I am indeed fortunate then to have gotten the only HK33 cocking handle that (other than the slot location) is identical to a HK91 in profile and camming surface location. Here is an overlay of the HK33 trace and an HK91 trace using the pivot hole as the common locator. You will see that there are minor variations in the edges due to the manufacturing processes. The edge scans were taken with a point spread of .05 mm. The HK33 scan is the one with the rounded ears on the end where the plastic cocking handle attaches.

No big deal to me how the information is interpreted, just thought I'd share. BTW, the HK33 handle I traced is in use in my 33, and the 91 handle traced is in my PSG1 cetme. Both work flawlessly.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Holescreek/Gunstuff/HK33/HK33cockinghandleCetmeoverlay.jpg


As you've discovered, it doesn't really matter all that much (don't try to convince anyone on HKPro of that though!), but there is a difference. Go to HKParts.net and look at the HK93 cocking handle and the HK91 cocking handle. Camming surfaces and pivot hole location are different. Is your 33 an HK or a clone? Clone manufacturers often erroneously use these parts interchangably. My vector had a 91 handle in it.
Holescreek
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Posted: 4/25/2012 7:14:43 PM
My 33 handle came out of an original HK. I still have the black plastic handles that had cracked.

No worries about trying to convince people about anything, I gave it up as my new years resolution. It's way more fun to watch them do dumb stuff and pump up the economy spending money needlessly. I usually ask them to take a lot of pictures and post their findings.
Rhinelander
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Posted: 4/26/2012 9:05:19 PM
I'm not saying that it won't work...just saying it sure works a lot better with the right one. Probably doesn't make a hill of beans in many .223 guns, but mine took too much force to muscle it open...so in my case the correct part made all the difference .
If the 53 cocking handle weren't installed I would gladly measure it, but...
blackta6
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Posted: 4/26/2012 10:52:27 PM
Interested minds want to know. You installed it once, don't want to a second time? You'll only get better the more you install and remove. I'm just givin you a rough time cause I'm too cheap to buy one myself.
"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life." Theodore Roosevelt

www.iowacarry.org