Not looking to go NFA length but I want to cut down my Rhodie. How short can I go without reliability problems? I don't mind having the muzzle brake pinned on.

Who's the best FAL tech to get it done?


Thanks,
Rob

I have seen fall pistols with very short barrels.

DOOD...
You got to turn it into a Para 11"  Congo.

"Moses" on the FAL FIles does a pretty good job with that.

The Belgians went as short as 436mm (a hair under 17.17") with the standard gas system.  Reliable cycling is a given as long as the gas port is opened up to the appropriate diametre.  That length also permits the launching of rifle grenades and the use of the bayonet with the combo device.  You could probably get down to around 16", but you might run into reliability issues, as I understand it.  DSA's barrels are 16.25" and I know that the South Africans on their police carbines often shortened them down to around 16", give or take a little.

Personally, I wouldn't go below 436mm.

I have an HK91 awaiting a permission slip to make a G3k. Also have a 12.5 inch Armalite. Looking to keep the FAL at Title 1 length. Might do 16.25 and keep the original gas system. It's just a beater brush gun for deer and pigs.


Any pics of 16 inch guns?


Thanks,
Rob

Who made the barrel?

I would not recommend cutting a Belgian or South African barrel...

The barrel is Belgian. Are you advocating not cutting the barrel based on provenance or some technical reason? If provenance I have a LNIB FN 50:63 that I plan to leave in the box.


RC

I wouldn't go less than 18" otherwise there isn't much point to 7.62 nato

Well if you're not wanting to go NFA, then 16" is the shortest you can go. If you want to go 14.5" with a pinned muzzle device to stay 16" overall, then that's doable, but you'll have to go with the shorter gas system.

I'm not worried about the loss of a couple hundred FPS to go to 16. I have bigger guns if I need more horsepower at longer ranges. .300 RUM is my choice for hunting beyond a few hundred yards. My .308 battle rifles are 200 yards and in brush guns.


Not interested in an OSW length gas system. Looks like 16 and change is the way to go.


Thanks!
Rob

this was my 16".

I cut mine down to 17"
I did open up the gas port, but don't recall to what though [>2yrs ago].  I have it my notes somewhere.

It's a bubba Fal but it works.

I had my my SA58 down to 14.5" and had the PWS comp welded and pinned on by Randy Kline (Sledgehammer on FALfiles).  I think he is out of Mansfield now.  

I have heard so many people say things like.....

"you shouldn't go shorter than __"
"it wont feed if you do ___"
"you will lose velocity if you cut it down"
"FAL wont ever run right if you cut it down"
"wont have any accuracy if you cut it"
"gotta shorten the gas system"

What I find is that NONE of them has ever had it done.  I had Randy do mine and I have had zero problems.  He did not shorten the gas system.  Gun runs as good or better than it did before.  ZERO reliability or function problems.  Velocity?  Glad you asked.  With my handloads, I get 2600 fps average from 150SP and Benchmark powder with Izzy brass.  Accuracy?  Never really been a strong suit of the FAL, but I have it zeroed for 50y and it is minute of pig.  Probly 2-3" groups at 100y with big red dot.  

Having it cut down made me want to not sell it.  I hated it before but after Randy worked on it, this FAL will be a part of my kids collection.  I dont have a pic but if you are wondering, he threaded it basically right after the bump next to the swivel on barrel.

Give Randy a call.  Great guy.

LD

 
Given the old timer collector mentality that's pervasive throughout much of the FAL-owning community, I'm not surprised at all to hear so much resistence so frequently whenever cutting down the barrel is mentioned.


My personal favorite is the "Yer just gunna turn it inta a 7.62x39 with a shorter barrel!"

Once you get that short, you really are taking the ballistics down to a point where a 7.62X51mm chambering doesn't really make sense.  When it comes to firearms, it really does make a lot of sense to first ask "What is it for?" and subsequently ask "Does this accomplish that end?"  I don't really regard very short FALs like that as making much sense for most intents and purposes.  And reputable FAL 'smiths have made statements about reliability issues with short barrels; not every gun will have problems, but the chances are much higher.

 
I believe your first point is largely an old wives' tail that continues to live on even after being debunked over the last several years quite thoroughly (similar to 5.56 not being effective or terminal past any farther than you can throw a baseball) . Yes, you lose velocity, but it's hardly the baseless 100fps/in metric you read so often as fact online. In the same way, the ballistics simply don't bear out against a 7.62x39. It's a silly argument.




That said, I do agree that you ABSOLUTELY need to ask yourself "What is it for?" and Does this accomplish that end?" when embarking on projects, but in the very specific case of the thin-barrelled, tilting bolt, heavy triggered FN FAL, you're not giving up much at all by going to a shorter barrel length. You were going to be able to reach out to 800m and engage man-sized targets accurately anyway.




On your later point, reliability can be a problem, but that's only when the gas port doesn't get opened up. Do that, and your FAL should work just as well as another other (that is, pretty damn well, but it's not the indestructible, never-stopping death machine its reputation extols it to be).


 

I'm not saying the ballistics will be identical to the AK, but they will be reduced to the point where the extra recoil, lower capacity, and greater weight do not make sense for what you get.  Yeah, you don't lose velocity too quickly with this cartridge, but past a certain point you do see significant effects.  Something like the OSW doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me unless you need to maintain commonality of ammo and magazines with other people with full-sized rifles.

As for the longer-range uses, you can in fact shoot minute of man several hundred yards away with a FAL, if you're up to the task.  I've seen some impressive results with a StG-58 build (unissued condition kit, DSA receiver, DSA scope mount with an optic).  IIRC, it was around 13" groups at 715 yards.

I have a DSA SA58 with a 21" barrel and long flash hider welded on. I'd like mine to be carbine length. It's been years since I've shot at anything over 200 yards and I was thinking about using it for heavy metal class in 3 gun.

Some of the original barrels that are in real good shape are harder and harder to find.
Some were known for great accuracy. I can't remember which markings were the desirable barrels.
There are plenty of cut down barrels that I would use before I would cut a great original barrel.
Ask over at the FALFILES.

I have a SA58 with 16" barrel on a DSA build and it runs great.

No true!
I have a DSA Para FAL with 18inch barrel and a DSA OSW (11 inch barrel)
the OSW is 2 ft long and is my PDW for PSD or CQB. 30 rounds of 30 is far better than 30 rds or 223. especially when Its only 24 inches long and I'm in a vehicle
The OSW will get me out to 500 yards
and I don't have any problems with an 11 inch barrel

How are the ballistics reduced?  2600 fps from a 14" barrel is different than 2600 fps from a 22" barrel?  Same speed, same weight?  My FAL spits 150SST's at 2600 fps and it also spit them at 2600 fps from the 21" barrel.  Where is the reduction in ballistics?  Where is the extra recoil?  Not sure if you have shot one, but my FAL with the PWS comp on it recoils much less than the 21" barrel.  Capacity?  I run 30 rd mags same as the AK.

So what we end up with is a short weapon, as light or lighter than the AK, same mag capacity, same reliability BUT with real .308 ballistics and weights coming out the barrel.

What's it for?  As I see it, anything you would have an AK.  I shoot pigs with mine.  

LD

I had mine built by Adam762, cut, crowned, soldered long flash hider, moved gas block back approximately 5". Runs like a champ and pisses off all the fudds when I go shoot in public.
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The only way you are getting those velocities is by reloading.  There is no way you are not experiencing a drop with factory ammo.  I wonder what kind of pressures you're getting on the hot reloads.

Moses over on the FALfiles did the barrel work and James over at CMP Armory Assembled and cut down the Isreali Light bbl HG's to fit. It works very well I highly recommend both of them for doing FAL work.

Jason

Mines just as you describe.. 14" or less with 6hole muzzle device welded on...standard gas system...runs perfect.. Have only about 400rds threw her... Only issue is some converted inch SA mags.....I'm running on 3 setting and 4....next time I'm going to try different settings and see how open I can run her and still cycle.

 

Ordinary average quality .308 rounds roll out around 2600 or a little hotter.  Its all about burn rate.  If you use a slow burn powder in a short barrel, most of the time is just makes pressure and a fireball.  You have to find a powder that burns completely in the short barrel.  I use benchmark powder, which is quite a bit quicker than standard Varget or H335.  Burns completely with zero flash.  I use 42gn of Benchmark and the Izzy brass has no signs of pressure.  No flattened primers or anything.  In fact, I am looking and seeing if 125sst's will group at all so I can get a little softer recoil and spin them out 2700-2800.  

LD  

I will never understand cutting a bbl less than 16" and then welding on a muzzle device for legality.

If you want the 'look' of the muzzle device, then ream it and weld it on over the bbl.

Never chop off bbl you don't have to.