Garand still prematurely ejecting clips. - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Garand still prematurely ejecting clips. (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 5/23/2017 8:55:40 PM EDT

I finally got around to zeroing a Garand that I bought at the CMP south store three years ago. I was shooting Greek surplus CMP ammo. With the sight bottomed out, I was shooting three inches high at 100 yards from the bench. I am able to shoot POA only if I use a six o'clock hold. Does anyone sell taller front sights, and could this potentially be caused by a more serious problem than front sight height?

Posted: 5/23/2017 9:25:26 PM EDT

[#1]

Don't change anything. That is perfect for a 200 yard zero.... Lollipop hold at 100.

Your cheekweld will appreciate it at the 600 yard line...

Posted: 5/23/2017 11:41:12 PM EDT

[#2]

I was going to say if you look at your elevation knob you'll see that 200 yds is the lowest number. There is a line just below the 200 but that may or may not be a 100 yd mark.

Posted: 5/24/2017 2:03:13 PM EDT

[#3]

The M-1 Rifle isn't a 100 yard weapon. Use a pistol or throw rocks.

Posted: 5/24/2017 3:32:49 PM EDT

[#4]

Some people (not me) will take their rear sight apart. Then they take the rear aperature and grind some metal off the bottom end of it. There's a "block" on the bottom/front that is a "stop" to keep you from being able to crank the sight "up" so far that it falls out of the sight. If you grind that stop off the aperture will go another click or two down.

I'm not recommending it, just saying that some people do it.

If you do a search for it you may find some instruction on what to do/how to do it.

Posted: 5/24/2017 3:45:46 PM EDT

[#5]

Posted: 5/24/2017 6:07:10 PM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:
The M-1 Rifle isn't a 100 yard weapon. Use a pistol or throw rocks.

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My Grandpa was part of the 2nd Infantry Division in WWII. I have a book they put together detailing some of their exploits throughout Europe in WWII. Well it starts pre war training and such. But there are some detailed accounts. Many of them with distances. Most contact distances were reported in feet, not yards. There is a reason for that "most engagements happen at 25 meters" mantra going around.

Now, the Garand is a capable gun to much much longer distances. And there were a few accounts even in the 2nd ID book that detail it. But lots of engagements, close. Garands, Carbines, pistols. Whatever went bang that they had their hands on.

I've read a few other books about WWII and they all kind of mirror that. 100 yards might be considered a "long shot" in some perspectives. I think the same could be said for Deer hunting at least in the North East and midwest. I've killed 7 deer in my time and not one of them was past 100 yards. Now, some were further than 25 meters. Some were not. I'd say about half and half. My first one MIGHT have been 100 yards. Actually that one might've been a hair more. But somewhere in that ballpark. And there again, there are plenty of places where you can shoot a heck of a long way. Most of the time in the woods, we're not shooting a heck of a long way.

Not to be a jerk, but your statement looks like BS to me.

OP, you need a taller front sight if you don't want to deal with the 3" high POI. It might've gotten filed down at some point. Does it look like it has been? Or something about the way the barrel mates to the receiver is causing it maybe.

Although Sinister knows a heck of a lot more than I do. So grinding the rear sight might be the right fix for that too.

Posted: 5/24/2017 7:43:26 PM EDT

[#7]

My goal is a 200 yard zero. I was attempting to follow the Fulton Armory advice of zeroing at 100 and adjusting one click down from 200. Nothing really looks wrong with the front sight. One thing to note is that the trigger guard lockup is pretty loose. The rifle is a beat up looking field grade, that I bought at the CMP store because it had a 1943 serial number and a TE of 0, ME of 1.

My gut tells me if I go the file approach, I'm going to have to really hog it out to get it to a 200 yard zero. Who all sells tall front sights? I checked Creedmoor and Fulton Armory and didn't see anything.

Posted: 5/24/2017 7:53:44 PM EDT

[#8]

I'd leave it. My M1 is zeroed at 200. I'm about 3" high at 100 and nearly dead on at 25

Posted: 5/24/2017 8:29:21 PM EDT

[#9]

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I'd leave it. My M1 is zeroed at 200. I'm about 3" high at 100 and nearly dead on at 25

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Yeah, I agree. The minimum zero distance for all of my M1 Garands, including an 18" Tanker, is 200-yds.

For my 16" Mini-G, the Z-distance is about 1" high at 100-yds, but that's because the Mini-G is a dedicated woods/boonies carbine (and an occasional "truck" gun), not a Match competition rifle.

Posted: 5/25/2017 7:24:38 AM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:
Yeah, I agree. The minimum zero distance for all of my M1 Garands, including an 18" Tanker, is 200-yds.

For my 16" Mini-G, the Z-distance is about 1" high at 100-yds, but that's because the Mini-G is a dedicated woods/boonies carbine (and an occasional "truck" gun), not a Match competition rifle.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I'd leave it. My M1 is zeroed at 200. I'm about 3" high at 100 and nearly dead on at 25

Yeah, I agree. The minimum zero distance for all of my M1 Garands, including an 18" Tanker, is 200-yds.

For my 16" Mini-G, the Z-distance is about 1" high at 100-yds, but that's because the Mini-G is a dedicated woods/boonies carbine (and an occasional "truck" gun), not a Match competition rifle.

I use mine for hunting and am so used to 3" high at a hundred it's my standard big game hunting zero.

Posted: 5/25/2017 10:15:42 AM EDT

[#11]

Based on playing with ballistics software, it appears that if it is a little over 3'' high at 100, it is zeroed for 250 yards. I suppose I might as well stick with it. I doubt I'll be shooting CMP competition anytime soon, and if I do, I can always just shoot six o'clock hold.

Posted: 5/25/2017 4:58:53 PM EDT

[#12]

At my range the Garand matches are at 200 anyways. Although they do run a few 100 yard matches. Usually geared towards the kiddos. 3" high at 100 would probably be a very manageable zero to figure out where to hold. Gives you a little more bull to look at it.

Posted: 5/25/2017 6:34:28 PM EDT

[#13]

I'd pull the front sight, measure from the base to the tip of the blade, call the CMP and ask if they can send you a taller one (or just call and see if they can measure a couple and send you a taller one). They're pretty good about making good IME.

Actually, if it was mine, I'd leave it be as it's about as close to ideal for me as you can get.

Posted: 5/25/2017 7:54:54 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'd pull the front sight, measure from the base to the tip of the blade, call the CMP and ask if they can send you a taller one (or just call and see if they can measure a couple and send you a taller one). They're pretty good about making good IME.

Actually, if it was mine, I'd leave it be as it's about as close to ideal for me as you can get.

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The OP got the rifle THREE YEARS ago from the CMP.

OP: You can leave the sight on for this: Measure from the bottom of the front sight to the top and tell us what that is. In other words, looking at the sight form the rear, above the screw is a ledge (the base of the front sight) where the front sight starts up. Measure from there to the top of the front sight post.
What is that measurement?

Posted: 5/26/2017 3:37:44 PM EDT

[#15]

OP, I have to raise my rear sight 13 clicks from bottom to shoot 100 yds.
Count yourself lucky.

Posted: 5/26/2017 6:00:38 PM EDT

[#16]

I've always liked the six o'clock hold for targets with garands and FALS. It keeps more of the target in view above the front sight in real world situations.

This works good for steel targets too.

Trying to figure out where the center of the target is with half of it hidden behind the front sight is harder for me.

Posted: 5/27/2017 9:52:57 PM EDT

[#17]

Alright, so I shot a multigun match with it and have some more problems. First, I removed the sight and found that it is a hair over .7 inches tall. My caliper died, so I don't have a more precise measurement.

Second, the gun prematurely ejects clips. It did so twice.

Third, on the last trigger pull of the match, it fired to rounds. I don't know what caused it, since the trigger group passes all tests I did on it afterwards (making sure the disconnector catches the hammer when the trigger is pulled). I have gopro video of all the problems, but my internet is slow today for some reason so I haven't uploaded it yet.

Posted: 5/28/2017 8:20:41 AM EDT

[#18]

It's likely you were "milking" the trigger. It's easy to accidentally "bump fire" the Garand. I've done it before. More information below.

http://forums.thecmp.org/archive/index.php/t-88763.html

Posted: 5/28/2017 8:46:47 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
It's likely you were "milking" the trigger. It's easy to accidentally "bump fire" the Garand. I've done it before. More information below.

http://forums.thecmp.org/archive/index.php/t-88763.html

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Yep, both the Garand and M-14 were prone to this when milking the trigger, done it myself and there is nothing wrong with the rifles themselves. Always done on the bench zeroing and finessing the trigger.

Posted: 5/28/2017 8:53:48 AM EDT

[#20]

Ejecting clips early should be solved by replacing the clip latch spring. Easy fix.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:02:46 AM EDT

[#21]

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Quoted:
Ejecting clips early should be solved by replacing the clip latch spring. Easy fix.

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The bump on the bullet guide where it trips the op-rod catch also plays a big part in the timing of the clip ejection.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:04:48 AM EDT

[#22]

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OP, I have to raise my rear sight 13 clicks from bottom to shoot 100 yds.
Count yourself lucky.

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That's pretty much standard. 12 clicks from the bottom is usually on target for 1 or 2 hundred yards.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:56:19 AM EDT

[#23]

Cool, I'll buy a new clip latch spring and probably leave the sight as is. I had no issues hitting short range targets with the slightly high zero.

Posted: 5/28/2017 10:34:00 AM EDT

[#24]

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Quoted:

That's pretty much standard. 12 clicks from the bottom is usually on target for 1 or 2 hundred yards.

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Good deal! Thanks, I didn't know that.

Posted: 5/28/2017 10:53:10 AM EDT

[#25]

The 6 o'clock hold is your answer.

Posted: 5/28/2017 4:05:52 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
http://www.fulton-armory.com/faqs/M14-FAQs/NM2.GIF

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Carefully modifying the front sight as shown in the picture will allow you to get a couple more clicks in the direction you need.

I would much rather have your problem that I have. One of my M1 Garands, needs 17 clicks of elevation to get zeroed at 200 yards.

Posted: 5/28/2017 6:16:20 PM EDT

[#27]

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Quoted:

Carefully modifying the front sight as shown in the picture will allow you to get a couple more clicks in the direction you need.

I would much rather have your problem that I have. One of my M1 Garands, needs 17 clicks of elevation to get zeroed at 200 yards.

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What's the TE on that barrel? I bet it's at the high end.

Posted: 5/28/2017 6:32:53 PM EDT

[#28]

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Quoted:
OP, I have to raise my rear sight 13 clicks from bottom to shoot 100 yds..

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13 clicks is waay too much just to zero at 100 yds. Maybe okay for 300yds, but for 100 that's a lot.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:37:25 PM EDT

[#29]

Fulton Armory says 8 clicks up for 100 yds.

Posted: 5/28/2017 10:18:09 PM EDT

[#30]

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What's the TE on that barrel? I bet it's at the high end.

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It's a new Krieger, 1/11 twist in .308. I had it rebarreled hoping to fix the problem. I think the receiver face should have been trued prior to installing the new tube.

Posted: 5/28/2017 10:23:33 PM EDT

[#31]

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Quoted:
13 clicks is waay too much just to zero at 100 yds. Maybe okay for 300yds, but for 100 that's a lot.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
OP, I have to raise my rear sight 13 clicks from bottom to shoot 100 yds..

13 clicks is waay too much just to zero at 100 yds. Maybe okay for 300yds, but for 100 that's a lot.

Well, bigbore from adco says it's close to normal. I think I'm gonna believe him before I listen to you.

Posted: 5/29/2017 7:25:20 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
Well, bigbore from adco says it's close to normal. I think I'm gonna believe him before I listen to you.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
OP, I have to raise my rear sight 13 clicks from bottom to shoot 100 yds..

13 clicks is waay too much just to zero at 100 yds. Maybe okay for 300yds, but for 100 that's a lot.

Well, bigbore from adco says it's close to normal. I think I'm gonna believe him before I listen to you.

The CMP experts, who often quote from the lips of God his own self (i.e., John C.), say 8-9 clicks is "normal."

Much beyond that gets into abnormal, as in: "sumpin' ain't right."

Posted: 5/29/2017 7:31:13 PM EDT

[#33]

My digital caliper is broken, but when I removed the front sight, it appeared on the ruler to be just a hair more than .7 inches from base to tip of the post.

Posted: 5/29/2017 11:50:39 PM EDT

[#34]

Do you have NM sights on it? My loaded (M1A) does and it's more like 16 clicks up. But that would be 8 in regular clicks, so.........

Posted: 5/30/2017 10:58:26 PM EDT

[#35]

8 clicks up for 200 for mine

Posted: 5/31/2017 6:04:49 PM EDT

[#36]

The clip latch spring is often hindered by buildup of dried dirty grease goo so if you have more time than money you can remove the spring, clean it and the area it goes into and that might fix your early ejection. There's nothing wrong with buying a new spring though.

Posted: 6/1/2017 1:54:11 PM EDT

[#37]

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Quoted:
The clip latch spring is often hindered by buildup of dried dirty grease goo so if you have more time than money you can remove the spring, clean it and the area it goes into and that might fix your early ejection. There's nothing wrong with buying a new spring though.

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I installed a new spring today. The new spring is stiffer and about a millimeter longer than the old one. I'll go to the range sometime this week to test it. I also need to rezero the rifle since I went ahead and did the rear sight mod outlined above. I also picked up a WW2 bayonet, because why not? Also have a milled trigger guard on the way.

Attached File

One last thing, my stock is in rough shape and has no markings. No cartouche, no circle P, etc. Is there any way to tell who made it or if it is original to the gun?

Also, playing with ballistics software, it seems that elevation should be two inches high at 100 when zeroed for 200, but all of the guides suggest going one click/inch down at 100 to be zeroed at 200. Which is correct?

Posted: 6/1/2017 2:12:36 PM EDT

[#38]

You gotta verify.

Great pic. I don't know anything about stocks and Garands. Mine is pretty bad too. (was a CMP gun) My Dad's was way better. Luck of the draw I guess.

Posted: 6/27/2017 9:00:55 PM EDT

[#39]

I shoot lots of CMP matches and maybe 2000 rounds a year through my M1. 13 to 14 clicks up from bottom is right on at 200 yards. Most of us shoot a 6 o'clock hold with the M1 with great results. I can shoot a metal worthy score all day prone with a proper sling but never from a bench. For most of us bench shooting an M1 just sucks, you flinch or milk the trigger and your consistency sucks.

Posted: 6/28/2017 5:55:12 AM EDT

[#40]

There is so much incorrect information being spread around by people who dont have a clue what they are talking about
There is no set number of clicks up, every rifle is different. 13 clicks up at 100 is not unusual
I suspect the OPs rifles issue is the old worn stock. Loose lockup can affect POI

Posted: 6/30/2017 4:18:33 PM EDT

[#41]

I was reading somewhere the other day about stock fit effecting accuracy. I'll try to back track to find the post.

Posted: 6/30/2017 8:16:49 PM EDT

[#42]

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I was reading somewhere the other day about stock fit effecting accuracy. I'll try to back track to find the post.

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It's well known that loose stocks are bad for accuracy, but I've never heard of them altering POI in any particular way other than increasing dispersion. Could be wrong on that though.

Posted: 7/1/2017 6:55:21 AM EDT

[#43]

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It's well known that loose stocks are bad for accuracy, but I've never heard of them altering POI in any particular way other than increasing dispersion. Could be wrong on that though.

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As stated in my earlier post, loose lock up can affect POI

Posted: 7/22/2017 5:54:35 PM EDT

[#44]

I just test fired the Garand after replacing the clip latch spring. Unfortunately it is still prematurely ejecting clips.

How do I diagnose the bullet guide? Is the solution buying a new bullet guide?

Posted: 7/22/2017 5:58:30 PM EDT

[#45]

Do you have a micrometer? if so I can instruct you on how to measure the lug on bullet guide.I have bullet guides if you need one PM me
Are you using USGI enblocs? This can also cause the issue you are having

Posted: 7/22/2017 6:05:42 PM EDT

[#46]

Unfortunately I do not have a micrometer. Most of my enbloc clips are from AmmoGarand.com.

Posted: 7/22/2017 6:42:30 PM EDT

[#47]

Only accurate way to check bullet guide is measure the lug. What is stamped on the back of enbloc in the circle

Posted: 7/22/2017 7:46:27 PM EDT

[#48]

All clips are marked AEC3. I fired three clips today, with only one successfully firing 8 rounds.

Posted: 7/22/2017 8:21:16 PM EDT

[#49]

Those are commercial made, years ago they had some issues but seem to have those ironed out now.
If you need bullet guides I have them, excellent condition, in spec

Posted: 10/30/2017 6:24:24 PM EDT

[#50]

I forgot about this project until a week or so ago. I purchased a new bullet guide and installed it. I test fired it today and it still is prematurely ejecting clips. One clip full fired, though clip ejection was weak. The second clip ejected on the second round. The third clip ejected on the 7th round.

The other WWII gun I test fired (for the first time ) did pretty well though! Zero malfunctions. Both guns pictured were originally built in 1943.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Garand still prematurely ejecting clips. (Page 1 of 2)

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