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Posted: 12/11/2016 2:19:35 PM EDT
I'm hoping to get some good guidance here.  I have an "M14A" made by Federal Ordnance in late 1989.  I bought it in December that year, directly from Federal Ordnance.  This particular specimen is a very low 7000 serial number.  The barrel, bolt, and operating rod are TRW, the trigger housing is Winchester, the hammer is H&R.  Other than that everything LOOKS GI, but I'm just not an authority on M14 parts so I don't know what all should be marked or how to tell or sure about everything else. I've shot it very little, perhaps 200 rounds, none in the last 15 years, but I don't remember ever having any problems with it.  Problem was shortly after I bought it I read a piece on Fulton Armory's web page declaring anything ever sold by Federal Ordnance to be dangerous to shoot due to the quality of their receivers.  I believe Fulton said they were investment castings, made in Spain, and they were known to have "geometry" problems.  So, not wanting to blow my face off, I just put it away.  Now that these things have been around for upwards of 27 years, have they been doing alright or blowing up or what?  Could someone like Fulton Armory use the rifle as a parts donor and build up a new rifle on a new receiver?   Thanks for reading, hope you can help!
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 3:07:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Background information on Federal Ordnance, Inc. from M14 Rifle History and Development Third Edition by Lee Emerson copyright 2006:

A. R. Sales Co., National Ordnance, Inc. and Federal Ordnance, Inc.

A. R. Sales Co. was established in 1968 and owned by Ilia I. Karnes. Jack Karnes, his wife Ilia, and their two children ran the company. Mr. Karnes was a tool and die maker by trade. When the family business started, its first large contract was to make M16 scope mounts. The two letters, A.R., were taken from the first two alphanumeric characters of the commercial name for the M16 rifle. Next, A. R. Sales produced high-end lightweight alloy M1911 style pistol frames and accessories.

It appears that A. R. Sales started on the semi-automatic M14 type rifle project by October 1971. An advertisement for its Mark IV rifle appeared in the October 15, 1971 issue of Shotgun News. The response from the civilian market was overwhelming. This included 2000 or more mail-in orders with the $15.00 deposit for a stripped Mark IV receiver.

A. R. Sales received its initial batch of Mark IV receiver castings by no later than March 07, 1972. This first set of receivers were used by Jack Karnes to set up fixtures and tooling for the machine tools. There were two Mark IV receiver production lots for the company. The first occurred in the winter of 1973. The first Mark IV rifles and stripped receivers were delivered to customers in January 1973. Mark IV serial number 0143 had been delivered to the buyer on March 02, 1973. The first production lot of Mark IV receivers was cast at Rimer Casting Company (Waterville, OH) using Karl Maunz’s receiver master die according to two sources and Prico (Los Angeles, CA) according to a third source, all highly reputable. The first production lot of Mark IV receivers was machined by A. R. Sales. The first lot of receiver serial numbers ended somewhere between 0001 and 0225 with 200 receivers produced.

The second receiver production lot was made in 1976. The receiver serial numbers for the second lot were started at a number below 0226 and ended at number 0250. The second production batch of Mark IV receivers was cast at Gray-Syracuse, Inc. and machined by Valley Ordnance Co. About twenty-five receivers were produced in the second batch.

Twenty-five serial numbers were skipped between the first lot and the second lot. The missing serial numbers were allotted for tool room samples and for intended-but-never-realized forged receivers. Both production lots of Mark IV receivers were heat treated by a local company in southern California.

A. R. Sales Co. at first bought M14 parts brand new directly from USGI contractors. Mark IV rifles were assembled with new and used USGI M14 parts and USGI M14 wood stocks. Any used M14 parts that were broken or worn were compared to the USGI drawings and rejected in the build procedure. The stock selector cutout was filled in for each assembled Mark IV rifle. According to the October 1971 A. R. Sales Co. specification sheet for the Mark IV rifle, “While most of our rifles will be built with N.M. barrels, we do not glass bed the actions, nor do we produce match grade weapons. We feel that this is best left to those who specialize in accurizing and building match grade weapons, and we do not wish to infringe in their domain.”

Ford Motor Company was formed on June 16, 1903 by Henry Ford and eleven other business associates. In 1925, Ford Motor Company bought Lincoln Motor Company, a manufacturer of luxury automobiles. For the 1972 model year, Lincoln introduced the Mark IV two-door luxury sport coupe. The Mark IV was longer, wider and slightly lighter than its very popular predecessor; the Lee Iacocca designed Lincoln Mark III. The 1972 Mark IV was Ford’s answer to General Motors Corporation’s Cadillac Eldorado and was a major success for Ford Motor Company. Lincoln Mark IV automobile production ended with the 1976 model year. Mr. Maunz was impressed with the plush style of the 1972 Lincoln Mark IV. Thus, he suggested to A. R. Sales that its semi-automatic M14 receiver be named Mark IV. A. R. Sales Mark IV receivers are of decent quality.

Ilia Karnes sold the manufacturing side of A. R. Sales to Ranger Machine & Tool some time in 1977 or 1978. Ranger Machine & Tool continued to produce the pistol frames and accessories but did not produce any M14 receivers or rifles. The retail business of A. R. Sales was shut down in 1984 by Ilia Karnes.

At the same time, in the early 1970s, when A. R. Sales was developing its Mark IV receiver, John Arnold was pursuing the same goal of manufacturing and marketing his own semi-automatic M14 type receiver. Mr. Arnold owned National Ordnance, Inc., a firearm manufacturing company, and Federal Ordnance, a firearm parts and ammunition supplier. Mr. Bob Penny was a business partner in this endeavor with John Arnold. John Arnold, Jack Karnes and Bob Penny were all former associates of Golden State Arms. Mr. Wyant Lamont, Jr., managed the day-to-day operations of National Ordnance.

The two sister businesses were located adjacent to one another on Alpaca Street at Potrero Avenue in South El Monte, CA. The street address for National Ordnance, Inc. was 9543 Alpaca Street South El Monte, CA 91733 or about one city block from A. R. Sales at 9624 Alpaca Street. From 1965 to 1970, National Ordnance produced 22,500 newly manufactured M1903A3 receivers and assembled them into complete rifles using USGI surplus parts. National Ordnance also manufactured 2000 M1 Garand welded and investment cast receivers and an unknown number of M1 Carbine investment cast receivers in the 1960s. The M1 Carbine and newly manufactured M1 Garand receivers were cast by Rimer Casting Company.

Employees from both A. R. Sales and National Ordnance visited the facilities of one another to discuss set up of machine tools. A. R. Sales did assist National Ordnance in its BM59 project but there was no collaboration between the two firms specific to M14 receivers. A very small number of National Ordnance stamped semi-automatic M14 type rifles were produced. Stephen Fuller reported two completed receivers for the company but a more reliable source closer to the events of the time estimates a half-dozen National Ordnance receivers were finished. The National Ordnance receivers were investment cast by Rimer Casting using the Maunz master die but machined by another Ohio business according to one source. Two other sources state that Electro Crisol Metal, S.A. in Santander, Spain made the raw castings for National Ordnance. National Ordnance went out of business about 1974 or shortly thereafter with the death of Mr. Arnold. As part of the liquidation of the company’s assets, assembled M14 type rifles and parts kits were sold off.

Bob Brenner restarted Federal Ordnance about 1979. Jack Karnes went to work for Bob Brenner when Federal Ordnance was revived. He was employed by Federal Ordnance until 1984. Mr. Karnes then did consulting work for the company until 1985 or 1986. In early 1982, Federal Ordnance had plans to produce M1 Garand Rifles using newly manufactured receivers. Federal Ordnance was located at 1443 Potrero Avenue, South El Monte, CA 91733. It sold military surplus firearms. In the late 1980s at least, Federal Ordnance, Inc. supplied a list of firearms manufacturers and importers addresses with its factory literature and a note encouraging customers to contact the manufacturer or importer to get an owner’s manual. Federal Ordnance also sold lightweight alloy M1911 style pistol frames marketed under its name and a trade name as well as selling a Springfield Armory, Inc. high-end M1911 style pistol.

Federal Ordnance began production of its M14 type rifles by 1984 and ended around 1992. About 1992 Federal Ordnance, Inc. changed its name to Bricklee then shut down shortly thereafter. The business was revived twice more under different names before finally withering on the vine. According to a very reliable source, Federal Ordnance used the same Spanish company as National Ordnance, at least initially, to supply the raw receiver castings. Karl Maunz supplied some receiver castings in 1987 to Federal Ordnance. Federal Ordnance receivers machined while Jack Karnes was on board were of good quality.

The Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price for a Federal Ordnance M14SA in 1988 was $629.00. The rifles were sold with a one year parts and labor warranty. Each Federal Ordnance M14 type rifle sold was accompanied by a factory inspection tag, warranty registration card, a copy of U. S. Army FM 23-8 and a fourteen page booklet on firearms safety and care. The safety booklet was written by Federal Ordnance, Inc. in 1984. The factory inspection tag included the following information about each rifle: date, stock number, a description, caliber, and signature fields for checking of headspace, test firing and inspection. The stock number for the fiberglass stock M14 was GU-0715. USGI M14 accessories such as magazines, magazine pouches, slings and cleaning kits were available from Federal Ordnance.

Federal Ordnance built two types of M14 rifles, one with USGI parts and one with Chinese parts. USGI parts were used extensively in Federal Ordnance rifles through at least S/N 8877. Through at least serial number 394X the USGI parts were taken off USGI M14 rifles imported from Israel. By serial number 9844, if not earlier, Chinese and Taiwanese reproduction parts were used to assemble its rifles. For example, Federal Ordnance M14SA serial number 502XX was assembled at the factory on September 13, 1991 with Chinese manufacture bolt, operating rod, firing mechanism and barrel. Receivers with serial numbers above 60XXX have engraved heel markings. Federal Ordnance receivers observed are marked on the side with the letter F inside a circle. This marking is sometimes lightly stamped. Federal Ordnance sold complete rifles as well as stripped receivers.

Synthetic stocks on Federal Ordnance M14 rifles may not have been USGI models but of unknown commercial manufacture. The original owner of Federal Ordnance M14SA serial number 22XX reports that the synthetic stock never had a selector cutout or USGI markings inside the magazine well. Further, the Federal Ordnance stock had a slightly rough finish. The butt plate was glossy black color instead of phosphate coated.

Century Arms International assembled some of these Federal Ordnance receivers with Chinese parts at their facilities in Montreal, Quebec, Canada in 1990 just before the imported parts ban of November 29, 1990, brought them into the United States with the military style features (twenty round magazine, bayonet lug, flash suppressor, and hinged butt plate) which was legal at the time and sold them to the commercial market. Century Arms International ceased operations in Montreal around 1993.

The Federal Ordnance marking may be located on the right receiver leg instead of the receiver heel for Century Arms International assembled rifles. Some Federal Ordnance M14SA receivers have serial numbers with the letter C prefix followed by a hyphen then four digits, e.g., C-0116. These letter C prefix serial number receivers were sold as stripped receivers to Century Arms International in 1990 for assembly into complete rifles. Century Arms International assembled very few M14 type rifles with Federal Ordnance receivers and Chinese parts, as compared to the number of Chinese rifles it later sold. Serial number C-0581 is the highest serial number for this series observed to date.
View Quote
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 5:50:36 PM EDT
[#2]
My opinion is that if it runs, run it. Keep an eye on your brass for evidence of headspace issues. If you have doubts, get a set of gauges. If you have the means, and still lack confidence in the receiver, there are a number of good quality commercial receivers available these days to put your G.I. parts on.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 10:57:38 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My opinion is that if it runs, run it. Keep an eye on your brass for evidence of headspace issues. If you have doubts, get a set of gauges. If you have the means, and still lack confidence in the receiver, there are a number of good quality commercial receivers available these days to put your G.I. parts on.
View Quote

I had the headspace checked a few years after I bought it, it was good in all respects.  It's never failed to function, at least with the delinked M80 I've used.  I expect you're right, but that Fulton Armory article has made me jittery about shooting it ever since I read it.  Of course Fulton Armory sells receivers too.  

Link Posted: 12/15/2016 11:22:39 AM EDT
[#4]
Get a new quality receiver and swap the parts. I recommend BULA Defense.
Link Posted: 1/1/2017 6:27:27 PM EDT
[#5]
You could trade it for an AR15??             If you might be interested pm me??
Link Posted: 1/1/2017 7:07:11 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm not aware of any stories floating around of them blowing up. So it's a cast receiver, possibly made in Spain, so what? All M1A receivers are cast, and most were castings from Brazil, prior to CNC machining in the US. You had the headspace checked and it was good, so it's good. Imperfect geometry won't cause it to explode. Wear eye pro just in case, as with any firearm.
Link Posted: 1/1/2017 7:39:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Over the years, I've had a couple of them. Both are still going strong. Shoot it. Gauge it every so often if that helps your confidence.
Link Posted: 1/1/2017 10:03:06 PM EDT
[#8]
I recall a conversation from turn of the millennium with LRB when he was just starting with his forged M14 receiver and Fulton Armory badmouthed it, touting their cast receiver as superior.


I don't think anyone is going to convince me that a properly heat treated casting will be superior to a properly heat treated forging, all other things being equal.
OTOH, Ruger has made a very decent business from arms made primarily from investment castings. I have owned two Armscorp receiver builds with no issues, one accurate enough with irons was my daily rifle when I worked at Rodman's Neck.
Link Posted: 1/3/2017 11:24:07 AM EDT
[#9]
If it functions and your headspace is good then drive on   About the only thing  I would suggest is to buy a headspace gage or gage set and monitor every thousand or few thousand rounds. The second thing to do is to see if the bridge dimensions and functions work.  A proper bridge prevents an out of battery hammer  to firing pin strike.   My memory is fuzzy but the firing pin tail and the bridge have a specific relationship and are a safety feature.  A lot of aftermarket receiver  bridges may not be In spec.
Link Posted: 1/3/2017 11:39:13 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm not aware of any stories floating around of them blowing up. So it's a cast receiver, possibly made in Spain, so what? All M1A receivers are cast, and most were castings from Brazil, prior to CNC machining in the US. You had the headspace checked and it was good, so it's good. Imperfect geometry won't cause it to explode. Wear eye pro just in case, as with any firearm.
View Quote


mine isnt cast... It was forged in red china!


Link Posted: 1/3/2017 6:11:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Good. Then yours is better. 
(Seriously.)
Link Posted: 1/6/2017 7:47:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Thanks to all of you for the useful comments!  I'll have the headspace checked again and then boldly go where I've not been for the past 15 years and just shoot it!
Link Posted: 2/9/2017 1:08:39 AM EDT
[#13]
Hoping it is okay to just add onto the tail end of this thread as it go right along with it. In lieu of beginning a new one at least. I picked up a Fed Ord M14A and  I am playing hell if getting any information on it.
It is a very low s.n 1081, with USGI parts H&R, and since I have not had the opportunity to break it down myself yet(it's still in jail here) I only have the numbers that the seller gave me. So here goes, if anyone can enlighten me as to this rifle, I will GREATLY appreciate it. Here are the numbers:

Federal Ordnance s/n 1081 M14A
Rear Sight: DRC,
Trigger: 7267030 66118
Barrel: 7790190 9-62 AF
Op-Rod: 7267064 hRA
Bolt: 7790185 HRT A03

Again thanks for any help
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