M1a Scout squad without forward mount from factory

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - M1a Scout squad without forward mount from factory

Posted: 1/23/2015 6:25:39 PM EDT

I have a chance to buy a M1A Scout Squad Rifle, it is walnut with the selector cutout in the stock, does not have the forward scope mount/base, has a prong type flash hider. guy swears it's factory, anyone ever seen one?

Posted: 1/23/2015 7:03:39 PM EDT

[#1]

I doubt that's a stock from the factory. And what kind of muzzle device does it have on it? If it's a normal Flash Hider, Springy used to make an 18.5" rifle that was called a "Bush" rifle. I don't think it had the forward mount and the scouts have that muzzle break that has holes in it. And I think the Bush had a normal flash hider.

I think if you can get the serial number you can call the factory to find out how it was built .

ETA: Duh, I see in your post it has a normal FH. At least that's how I'm reading it. My guess is, it's a "Bush" rifle in a USGI stock. But I could be wrong. Could be a Scout Squad that someone took off the mount, put a new top handgaurd on. Put it in a USGI stock and changed the muzzle break to a flash hider. I really don't know if they ever made a scout squad without that muzzle break. But not for as long as I've been looking at them.

Posted: 1/23/2015 7:17:26 PM EDT

[#2]

Here is my SA "Bush Rifle". I got it back in the early 80's. I swapped out the original stock for a fiberglass one:

Posted: 1/23/2015 8:00:11 PM EDT

[#3]

I quickly converted my "Scout Squad" to "Bush" configuration. Either is "factory." I have no idea what Cooper was smoking when he put a telescopic sight a foot from the eye.

Not sure what a "pronged" flash suppressor might be unless it's like my Smith Enterprise. Not "factory" to my knowledge but might be.

-- Chuck

Posted: 1/23/2015 8:52:27 PM EDT

[#4]

The Alpine model came with a Reece folding stock and a modified 3 prong flash hider back in the early 80's. Look up jungle M1A or Alpine M1A and see if you can match the hider. If it is one of the Alpine models they are pretty rare.... The folder brings serious coin nowadays....

Posted: 1/23/2015 9:43:15 PM EDT

[#5]

here it is

Posted: 1/23/2015 10:24:08 PM EDT

[#6]

I've never seen a factory M-1A look like that. The flash hider looks like someone cut down a standard hider.

Posted: 1/23/2015 10:56:27 PM EDT

[#7]

What is the barrel length on that? It looks like a SOCOM 16 that has had the scope mount removed and a USGI stock installed on it.

Posted: 1/23/2015 11:10:37 PM EDT

[#8]

Wow. Interesting. Lockbar sights too.

The person that told you it's stock from the factory is either lying, or doesn't know what he is talking about. I'd be skeptical about that rifle. Yeah, it looks like a standard FH cut down, the barrel does look a little shorter than 18.5 but I think it looks longer than 16, like the Socom's. And yes, that's not a factory stock. Unless at some point they were shipping USGI stocks with their guns.

However, it's possible any mods were done by someone that knew what they were doing. I have no clue. One thing is for sure, it's unique.

Plus, after looking at it again, I don't know if my eyes are playing tricks on me, but it almost looks like someone actually did that cutout on a factory stock to possibly have the USGI look. Not sure if I'm crazy there, but.....

Posted: 1/23/2015 11:22:37 PM EDT

[#9]

I have a Bush rifle and a Standard, both from Springfield Armory, the only difference is the barrel length and the lack of a bayonet lug on the Bush. Also, the Standard came with a walnut stock and the Bush with a black synthetic stock and a black rubber shoulder pad. I removed the pad and put the standard metal end piece on the synthetic stock, which I got off a fiberglass stock I ordered from Fred's.

The Bush model is just about ergonomically perfect for me and points naturally just where I want to aim. I love it.

Posted: 1/24/2015 12:04:16 AM EDT

[#10]

That is the Alpine mountain modified flash hider, as far as I know it only came in conjunction with the Reece folder.

Posted: 1/24/2015 10:33:10 AM EDT

[#11]

The only advantage is a shorter barrel. The Scout Squad (and probably the Bush) have heavier barrels than the standard M14 barrels on the M1A. At least my copy which is actually heavier than my standard rifle. Just weighing the actions as the wood stocks can vary in weight.

Springfield must have bought a pallet of old M1 lockbar sights as they're common on early M1A rifles. The M1 remained in National Guard service into the 1970s and they were constantly upgraded until the M16s were issued. Old sights were removed and Springfield probably bought them for scrap value.

Years ago my CMP M1 rifle manufactured in 1942 came from CMP with M14 sights on it!

-- Chuck

Posted: 1/24/2015 4:56:36 PM EDT

[#12]

I found a larger picture of op's rifle.
Click the pic for larger view.
http://www.cherrys.com/stokpics/34950che.jpg

Not much info on the rifle but here is the url where it is listed.
http://www.cherrys.com/longguns.htm
Firearms are in alphabetical order,so it is way down on the page.

Posted: 1/24/2015 5:20:58 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
I found a larger picture of op's rifle.
Click the pic for larger view.
http://www.cherrys.com/stokpics/34950che.jpg

Not much info on the rifle but here is the url where it is listed.
http://www.cherrys.com/longguns.htm
Firearms are in alphabetical order,so it is way down on the page.

View Quote

Great looking rifle.....I would buy that in a heartbeat!

Posted: 1/24/2015 6:12:40 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
The only advantage is a shorter barrel. The Scout Squad (and probably the Bush) have heavier barrels than the standard M14 barrels on the M1A. At least my copy which is actually heavier than my standard rifle. Just weighing the actions as the wood stocks can vary in weight.

View Quote

This is something that I never saw... all of the Bush/Scout M1As that I've owned or handled had standard weight 18.0" barrels. My MK14 SEI had an 18.0" medium heavy Crazy Horse barrel, but that was a custom build. All of the 18.0" M1As come with an extra tall front sight to compensate for the reduced length.

Posted: 1/27/2015 9:09:05 PM EDT

[#15]

I called SA with the serial number, turns out they sold the receiver stripped. so home build?

Posted: 1/28/2015 4:56:44 PM EDT

[#16]

It's anyone's guess unless they can give you some kind of documentation on who built it. For all I know it was built by the best guy in the world. But if it was me, I wouldn't sink my money into the unknown. Unless I could shot it, look it over and have someone that knows what they're doing look it over.

I'm not sure if you bought it or not, I forgot if you said. So... if you did, you might want to send it to someone to let them give it a once over. Check headspace, and anything that is deemed critical, etc.

Posted: 1/28/2015 7:55:26 PM EDT

[#17]

I decided against it after I called Springfield.

Posted: 1/28/2015 7:58:43 PM EDT

[#18]

Never seen one like that?

Posted: 1/28/2015 7:58:43 PM EDT

[#19]

Never seen one like that?

Posted: 1/29/2015 4:01:36 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Never seen one like that?

View Quote

Neither have I.......

Posted: 1/30/2015 4:43:01 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
I quickly converted my "Scout Squad" to "Bush" configuration. Either is "factory." I have no idea what Cooper was smoking when he put a telescopic sight a foot from the eye.

Not sure what a "pronged" flash suppressor might be unless it's like my Smith Enterprise. Not "factory" to my knowledge but might be.

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p533/chuck_f_s/Service%20Rifles/352877de-5207-472e-aa13-c59b7bde32b1_zps4fffb752.jpg

-- Chuck

View Quote

Coopers Idea was a low to medium power eer scope to be used at variable distance both eyes open for a broad field of view outside that of the optic (the scout part of scout rifle). Its actually really effective and very fast especially with a 2 or 3 power red dot optic or 2-7 variable power scope. The reason for forward mounting the optic was to allow the shooter access to reload via the stripper clip guide. The original concept was for a general purpose bolt gun and back when he conceptualized it even sporting rifles had stripper clip guides. It still works well with an M1A wherever 5 round hunting mags are regulation. If I have a 5 rounder inserted its actually easier to load with strippers using the guide. It makes shooting over barricade easy too. The concept is sound, the interpretation of it not so much. The Ruger GSR is stupid though because there's no damn clip guide on the rifle. I use a 2x M68, it sucks as a standard optic cause there's only a narrow field of view, but move it to a scout mount position and it friggin rocks as its just a magnified aimpoint, literally, and with both eyes open FOV is wide.

Oh, nice rifle btw.

Posted: 1/30/2015 6:07:53 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted: I use a 2x M68 its sucks as a standard optic cause there's only a narrow field of view, but move it to a scout mount position and it friggin rocks as its just a magnified aimpoint, literally as with both eyes open FOV is wide.

View Quote

I had one of those, and liked it.

I wish Aimpoint would make an updated 2X RDS based on the current M4.

Posted: 1/30/2015 7:03:57 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

I had one of those, and liked it.

I wish Aimpoint would make an updated 2X RDS based on the current M4.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted: I use a 2x M68 its sucks as a standard optic cause there's only a narrow field of view, but move it to a scout mount position and it friggin rocks as its just a magnified aimpoint, literally as with both eyes open FOV is wide.

I had one of those, and liked it.

I wish Aimpoint would make an updated 2X RDS based on the current M4.

Now that would rock, I'll take a 2x or 3x over a 1x sight anyday. I was showing a buddy how to close the front cover and use a magnified rds as an occluded sight for cqb. He was sold. I just don't like adding the separate magnifiers, too much junk.

Posted: 1/30/2015 11:34:06 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
The only advantage is a shorter barrel. The Scout Squad (and probably the Bush) have heavier barrels than the standard M14 barrels on the M1A. At least my copy which is actually heavier than my standard rifle. Just weighing the actions as the wood stocks can vary in weight.

Springfield must have bought a pallet of old M1 lockbar sights as they're common on early M1A rifles. The M1 remained in National Guard service into the 1970s and they were constantly upgraded until the M16s were issued. Old sights were removed and Springfield probably bought them for scrap value.

Years ago my CMP M1 rifle manufactured in 1942 came from CMP with M14 sights on it!

-- Chuck

View Quote

Springfield Armory is owned by the Reese family, longtime owners of Reese Surplus. They were in the surplus business long before they bought the rights to the Springfield Armory name and the rights to the M1A from Elmer Balance. They stockpiled Garand, M-14, FAL, and BM62/59 components for years and used them on builds up until parts sources dried up. The still buy, sell and import parts from all over the world. My best friend bought an Israeli K98 sniper rifle chambered in 7.62×51 from them a coupla years ago and I helped them identify a few different types of Mauser slings they had gotten in as well.