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WCG
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Posted: 9/24/2010 11:37:14 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
This is just a "FYI" to those concerned.
Is something going on with LRB or the machine shop they use ?

I can not & will not recommend LRB receivers because of the numerous problems that still persist.
I still maintain my personal standards, that a receiver must pass inspection before the build can proceed.
If the receiver doesn't pass inspection, I will not build on it.
To the owners who bought a LRB receiver within the last year I suggest you measure the thickness of the receiver safety bridge.
If it's way under spec., you should consider replacing the receiver.

Just a few notes regarding serious problems with the LRB receivers I've seen in the last 6-9 months.
The main problem is the receiver safety bridge being so far out of spec, that the receivers in question
are rejects (per GI drawing) or scrap or unservicable or whatever you want to call them.
Simply put, "not safe to build on" due to safety concerns.

I have 2 more here that are rejects or scrap because the receiver safety bridge is very thin.
I know of 2 so called M-14 smiths who have built rifles on LRB receivers with these very serious problems described here.
If you had rifles built by some other builder (not me) on LRB receivers in the last 6-12 months, check the safety bridge.
If the receiver safety bridge measures between .120-.160 you should take the matter up with your builder.
Most of the newer builders are not gauging or checking receivers before doing the build.

The receiver safety bridge should be .170 +or- .005 per GI drawing.
The measurement from the front of the receiver ring to the rear of the safety bridge should be 3.935
I have seen many LRB receiver safety bridges that measured between .120-.140 (thousandths).
That's .030-.050 under GI spec.
In laymans terms, I'll say it easier for you to understand.
.031 = 1/32", .062 = 1/16"

Some of the problems associated with the out of spec. receiver safety bridge is that the firing pin retraction is delayed.
The firing pin retracts late which causes the bolt timing to be wrong.
Meaning the bolt is moving farther faster, before it slows down.
This condition can also cause the firing pin tang to stick or bind during the bolt opening phase of the rearward travel.

The top of the safety bridge also supports the bolt when the bolt is closed & during cycling (firing the rifle).
A thinner safety bridge is also prone to more stress because of less bearing surface & could crack or break.

Some other things to note.
The op-rod support rail on the right side of LRB receivers are now .225 wide.
Standard is about .300 wide on USGI receiver print.
Also, the op-rod dismount notch now has a square undercut about .003-.005 deep.

LRB says their receivers are made to USGI specs but, they're not close to GI spec. at all.
Everyone knows what LRB receivers cost.
I suggest the Fulton or 7.62mm receivers for those wanting a quality receiver to build a rifle on.
The following pics show what I'm refering to in my post here.











Warbird


BRONZ
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Posted: 9/25/2010 12:05:26 AM
Have you posted this over on M-14 forums.
BRONZ

You never have trouble if you are prepared for it. T. Roosevelt

bthp223
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Posted: 9/25/2010 8:48:57 AM
Good info, would be neat if you had a rack grade springer receiver in those photo's.
ProjectLongbow
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Posted: 9/25/2010 8:57:38 AM
Thanks for posting this, I was about to bt one for a build. Ill look at fulerton or 7.62mm
Different
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Posted: 9/25/2010 9:26:08 AM
Originally Posted By bthp223:
Good info, would be neat if you had a rack grade springer receiver in those photo's.


I did some checking:

Make and serial number / Bridge Thickness / Op Rod Rail Thickness

Poly Technologies 00074 0.155 " 0.275 "
Armscorp 17XXX 0.185 " 0.325 "
Federal Ordnance 60223 0.182 " 0.262 "
Springfield Armory, Inc. 002XXX 0.215 " 0.268 "
Springfield Armory, Inc. 134XXX 0.215 " 0.276 "
spankybear
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Posted: 9/25/2010 3:28:09 PM
Originally Posted By ProjectLongbow:
Thanks for posting this, I was about to bt one for a build. Ill look at fulerton or 7.62mm


The Fulton ones I saw where very nice... I haven't seen the 7.62mm ones...

I know that Fulton had theirs for 399.00 a while back
"I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way." Mark Twain

Someone will soon find a way to get their nipples twisted over it. It's a brave new world. OTD 21MAR10
LbBlackJeep
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Posted: 9/25/2010 6:07:39 PM
[Last Edit: 9/25/2010 6:09:05 PM by LbBlackJeep]
Here are my observations between my LRB and my Norinco. The thickness of the safety bridge on the Norinco is the same thickness vertically to the point where the bolt rides on it. My LRB has a taper to it where it is thin at the bottom and it thickens to where the bolt rides on it. Here are my measurements: my Norinco measured in at .174" from top to bottom, and my LRB measured in at .156" at the thinnest point and .173" at the thickest point. Here are some pictures.

First 2 is the LRB:

Bottom of oprod rail.


Norinco:

Bottom of oprod rail.
Sabre223
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Posted: 9/25/2010 7:59:23 PM
Does this mean the LRB is gonna blow up?
Blacktail-8541
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Posted: 9/26/2010 12:14:40 AM
Originally Posted By BRONZ:
Have you posted this over on M-14 forums.


No he hasn't, he was banned from there some time ago.
spankybear
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Posted: 9/26/2010 1:05:25 AM
Originally Posted By Sabre223:
Does this mean the LRB is gonna blow up?


Um... most likely not. However, the price LRB charges and the claim they make you better be getting stuff within tolerance to USGI.

Maybe LRB is a reincarnated PT Barnum.
"I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way." Mark Twain

Someone will soon find a way to get their nipples twisted over it. It's a brave new world. OTD 21MAR10
Blacktail-8541
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Posted: 9/26/2010 1:39:11 AM
[Last Edit: 9/26/2010 1:25:14 PM by Blacktail-8541]
I just got thru measureing my 2 LRB receivers. 1 is from about August of 2007 and I just received the 2nd .

The measurements are identical minus the op rod dismount notch.

The top of the receiver bridge width is .173 and tappers to the bottom width of .145

distance from front of barrel ring to rear of receiver bridge is right on target at 3.935
patriotarmory223
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Posted: 9/26/2010 3:19:28 PM
Originally Posted By Blacktail-8541:
Originally Posted By BRONZ:
Have you posted this over on M-14 forums.


No he hasn't, he was banned from there some time ago.


I believe the reason why is because he was shitting all over a group buy on some barrels from a very respectable manufacturer. Probably for personal gain. It looks like he is at it again.
WCG
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Posted: 9/26/2010 4:49:53 PM
Originally Posted By BRONZ:
Have you posted this over on M-14 forums.

I see you're trolling again (as usual).
You never add any constructive comments anywhere at anytime.


Originally Posted By Different:
I did some checking:

Make and serial number / Bridge Thickness / Op Rod Rail Thickness

Poly Technologies 00074 0.155 " 0.275 "
Armscorp 17XXX 0.185 " 0.325 "
Federal Ordnance 60223 0.182 " 0.262 "
Springfield Armory, Inc. 002XXX 0.215 " 0.268 "
Springfield Armory, Inc. 134XXX 0.215 " 0.276 "

Hey Lee
Blooper time.........

I gave measurements for the "WIDTH" not the thickness of the right rail.
Measurement is from the receiver leg outward (on the bottom of the rail).
Now we know how misunderstandings are created......


Originally Posted By Blacktail-8541:
No he hasn't, he was banned from there "after he left on his own due to his huge workload" some time ago.

Corrected to include truthful content.


Originally Posted By patriotarmory223:
I believe the reason why is because he was shitting all over a group buy on some barrels from a very respectable manufacturer. Probably for personal gain. It looks like he is at it again.

Only a matter of time before a LRB defender comes along.
You're the one known for "shitting" on someone for personal gain.
You proved it here.
People like you must be a shill for LRB or else your comments would be much different.
If not, prove it by not making personal attacks without proof to back it up.
Otherwise you're just trolling.

I gave proof then, that some barrels wouldn't headspace correctly to "some" Armscorp receivers.
Some of the members on that "other" forum backed me up on it but, people like you still sling mud in the wrong direction.
The last time this came up it didn't bode well for the "other" forum.
Looks like you never learn from history..................................
You should take good advice & let it rest.

I gave facts here about problems I've seen with "some" LRB receivers to educate customers.
Customers deserve to know about things that affect a safe build.
I have given info. regarding "all" makers, not just LRB.
Those other makers include SAI, Fulton, Armscorp. 7.62mm, Enterprise, etc.
LRB was told at shot show 2010 last January of some of these serious issues.
Soooooooo I'm not the 1rst to bring it up.
They still fail to correct problems after 10 years of production time, go figure.

I have "NO" financial gain from any maker of receivers, including 7.62mm firearms.
I will say that 7.62mm has done what no other receiver maker has done before.
They had less problems in shorter time & have corrected most if not all of them.






YoteSlayer69
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Posted: 9/26/2010 5:05:05 PM
Warbird this was bound to happen. This is a small community. Pay it no mind. Those of us who know. Appreciate your effort and this type of info. The rest can go fuck themselve's. This is a technical forum. Want to fly accusations. Go post in GD. You can squeeze into the "what are we gonna whine about today" room.
WCG
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Posted: 9/26/2010 5:13:31 PM
[Last Edit: 9/26/2010 5:13:53 PM by WCG]
Originally Posted By YoteSlayer69:
Warbird this was bound to happen. This is a small community. Pay it no mind. Those of us who know. Appreciate your effort and this type of info. The rest can go fuck themselve's. This is a technical forum. Want to fly accusations. Go post in GD. You can squeeze into the "what are we gonna whine about today" room.

I totally agree 100%.
The last time it came up, my inbox maxed out with "I want rifle work done" emails.
Took me almost 2 weeks to catch up on emails.

I'm a big man & I have thick skin to boot.
Some people don't understand that I can take criticism & keep on movin.
I moved on long ago.
I'm still here, and will be here for anyone who needs me for years to come.



Warbird
raf
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Posted: 9/26/2010 5:21:33 PM
This is a Tech Forum, and comments should be of a technical, not personal nature.

Please refrain from personal comments. If you cannot do so, then take your personal issues elsewhere.
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
patriotarmory223
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Posted: 9/26/2010 5:28:33 PM
[Last Edit: 9/26/2010 7:06:15 PM by raf]
I'am the one known for shitting on someone for personal gain? How so? i am not a site sponsor , i am not a vendor i have nothing to gain by voiceing my opinion on any subject on this forum or any other. You want to throw rocks at me , that fine but remember you were the one that was baned from the TFL forum, not me. No one gets kicked off of that site for no good reason, but you managed to, i wonder why? AFWIW i do not own an LRB nor do i plan on buying one in the near future. I have more that enough rifles to feed as it is.

Given the timing of my reply above, and this post, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt––this time.
ANY personal comments by ANYONE in Tech fora may be subject to sanctions. Consider yourself warned. raf
spankybear
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Posted: 9/26/2010 5:42:23 PM
Sigh...
"I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way." Mark Twain

Someone will soon find a way to get their nipples twisted over it. It's a brave new world. OTD 21MAR10
JohnRippert
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Posted: 9/26/2010 6:00:36 PM

If you do not own or have a interest in a LRB receiver then you should not be commenting on Warbird's post. He is not a politically correct person, thank god, and calls it like he sees it. His expertise on the M14/M1A platform is well known and so is the quality of his work on many different types of firearms. I know this because he has done work for me. If he says there are inconsistencies in what LRB sells you compared to what they claim then it is so. He does not produce receivers himself so there is no financial gain for him to educate people on this subject.
Different
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Posted: 9/26/2010 6:09:41 PM
[Last Edit: 9/26/2010 6:13:24 PM by Different]
Originally Posted By WCG:
Originally Posted By WCG:Originally Posted By Different:
I did some checking:

Make and serial number / Bridge Thickness / Op Rod Rail Thickness

Poly Technologies 00074 0.155 " 0.275 "
Armscorp 17XXX 0.185 " 0.325 "
Federal Ordnance 60223 0.182 " 0.262 "
Springfield Armory, Inc. 002XXX 0.215 " 0.268 "
Springfield Armory, Inc. 134XXX 0.215 " 0.276 "


Hey Lee
Blooper time.........

I gave measurements for the "WIDTH" not the thickness of the right rail.
Measurement is from the receiver leg outward (on the bottom of the rail).
Now we know how misunderstandings are created......


Warbird, my bust. Yes, you were pointing out the operating rod rail width on the two receiver manufacturers. Sorry for adding confusion to the discussion. I try not to make that a habit.
pseudosuit
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Posted: 9/26/2010 6:51:09 PM
The safety bridge is supposed to be tapered. It is not one thickness. Your measurement shows nothing and is pretty misleading. LRB receivers are accurately machined to the small details that other manufacturers neglect.

And I have no dog in this fight. I'm simply a consumer. I don't sell, market, manufacture or build anything, before anyone starts throwing accusations.
WCG
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Posted: 9/26/2010 7:56:05 PM
[Last Edit: 9/26/2010 7:57:50 PM by WCG]
Originally Posted By Different:
I try not to make that a habit.

I couldn't help myself.
It's the 1rst blooper I've seen so I tagged it for gags.

Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
The safety bridge is supposed to be tapered. It is not one thickness. Your measurement shows nothing and is pretty misleading. LRB receivers are accurately machined to the small details that other manufacturers neglect.
And I have no dog in this fight. I'm simply a consumer. I don't sell, market, manufacture or build anything, before anyone starts throwing accusations.

I'm aware the safety bridge is tapered.
It doesn't take 30+ years to learn that.
Nothing is misleading at all.
The .135 if the top measurement.
The .124 is the bottom measurement.
That's the only thing I didn't clarify earlier.
As for being accurately machined, if your statement was correct we would not be seeing these problems today.
It's been proven just the opposite for the last 10 years of LRB production, hence all the problems they had & still have today.

Any & all receiver makers have problems, albeit some more than others.
To say that problems don't exist with any 1 receiver maker, is being in a state of denial.
I'm not the only one who has mentioned these same problems but, those people can speak for themselves if they wish.

I'm not selling anything here & I won't in the future.
I'll post in the exchange where it belongs if I do.
I post info. & help tips here to help those that need or want it.
That's the limit for me in the tech forum here.

As for being banned.
I'm not the only one that was banned there in the past.
Been 10 different reasons given since I voluntarily left on my own.
Some hilarious made up stories have risen since then.
Many other good people have been banned there as well.
Anyone can be banned from any forum & for a 100 different reasons.
As for anyone who has issues with me I suggest the private message button.
Until then, clean your own house before trying to clean mine,



Warbird

Budsboy
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Posted: 9/26/2010 8:27:10 PM
Plastic calipers?
SYSTEM MESSAGE
Posted: 9/26/2010 8:47:05 PM
[Last Edit: 9/26/2010 8:47:05 PM by raf]
Personal attacks, raf