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Posted: 11/7/2016 1:05:38 PM EDT
ETA: Title change because I'm going with DM instead of SDTA.
Form 1 just got approved for an 8" .45 can that I intend on using mostly for pistols. I'm planning on doing an SDTA B tube with a Gemtech LID, but I'm not certain on the baffle stack setup. What have people been doing in regards to number of baffles, designs, spacers, etc? Do people use a VSR in them; is there any reason not to? I have a 6" .30 D tube can that I have been using on my SBR and it works great--used a VSR behind a stack of formed stainless freeze plugs, and it’s held up just fine so far. But, I don’t want to hang an 8” tube full of stainless plugs on the end of a pistol, as I imagine that might get heavy. Any ideas? Pics of builds? ETA: Finished this thing up the other day, and I'm having a blast so far! Super glad I spent the extra coin on DM. Couldn't be happier.  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 11/7/2016 1:12:25 PM EDT
[#1]
My idea involves getting something better than a B tube.
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Posted: 11/7/2016 1:16:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My idea involves getting something better than a B tube. Why? They market them as being ideal for pistols. How are they not? |
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Posted: 11/7/2016 1:26:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? They market them as being ideal for pistols. How are they not? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My idea involves getting something better than a B tube. Why? They market them as being ideal for pistols. How are they not? Also, the Gemtech booster reportedly doesn't work all that well on heavier cans, which is what the B tube will be. The Liberty works better with heavier cans, but the Liberty is 1.375 in diameter compared to the 1.25 of the Gemtech. A slightly smaller booster won't look that strange, but a larger booster than can is going to look funny. As for internals, I'd go with either Ks or radials. .500" bore hole on the baffles, .520" bore hole through the endcap. .375 or larger mouse hole on the Ks or a double hybrid clip on the radials. |
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Posted: 11/7/2016 1:30:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Not my pic, but this is what the dual hybrid clip looks like. It's a U notch, which the is the traditional clipping method, combined with a Griffin style clip on both side of the cone.
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Posted: 11/7/2016 1:33:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're heavy, ridiculously so. Wall thickness is .085", doesn't need to be more than .058", and even then it only needs to be that thick so that it can be safely threaded. Internal volume is no more than a 1.25" tube but they're 1.31" diameter. You won't see a single commercial .45 can that's 1.25" in diameter, they're all 1.375" because .45 needs the volume. You can get a 1.375" tube that's lighter and offers you more volume than the B tube. Also, the Gemtech booster reportedly doesn't work all that well on heavier cans, which is what the B tube will be. The Liberty works better with heavier cans, but the Liberty is 1.375 in diameter compared to the 1.25 of the Gemtech. A slightly smaller booster won't look that strange, but a larger booster than can is going to look funny. As for internals, I'd go with either Ks or radials. .500" bore hole on the baffles, .520" bore hole through the endcap. .375 or larger mouse hole on the Ks or a double hybrid clip on the radials. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My idea involves getting something better than a B tube. Why? They market them as being ideal for pistols. How are they not? Also, the Gemtech booster reportedly doesn't work all that well on heavier cans, which is what the B tube will be. The Liberty works better with heavier cans, but the Liberty is 1.375 in diameter compared to the 1.25 of the Gemtech. A slightly smaller booster won't look that strange, but a larger booster than can is going to look funny. As for internals, I'd go with either Ks or radials. .500" bore hole on the baffles, .520" bore hole through the endcap. .375 or larger mouse hole on the Ks or a double hybrid clip on the radials. FWIW, I don't even have a threaded .45 right now. It will mostly be used on a 9mm and 5.56 for now; I just make it bigger to give me more options later on down the road. If the tube is so poorly designed, who makes a better one? Links? I've only ever bought from SDTA and have a pretty limited skillset, so I would prefer to keep it as simple as I can. |
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Posted: 11/7/2016 1:42:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FWIW, I don't even have a threaded .45 right now. It will mostly be used on a 9mm and 5.56 for now; I just make it bigger to give me more options later on down the road. If the tube is so poorly designed, who makes a better one? Links? I've only ever bought from SDTA and have a pretty limited skillset, so I would prefer to keep it as simple as I can. He's got a bunch of 1.375x1.259 tubes in both lengths in stock. He also has radial endcaps and low profile endcaps for the 1.375 tubes in stock. You'll also need a booster bushing, which unfortunately are out of stock at the moment. I'd order the endcap and tube and put a note in the comments that you'd like a booster bushing and radials and spacers to fit the tube. To run it on 5.56, I'd go with the Griffin Armament taper mount, probably a minimalist brake. Super Precision Concepts has a Griffin taper mount adapter for B tubes coming out soon. It will fit the DM booster bushing and allow you to switch back and forth between the Griffin taper mount and the pistol booster. Also, one other point I forgot to mention earlier, the Gemtech booster is only available in 9mm thread patterns. You'll need the Liberty if you want to run anything larger than 9mm. |
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Posted: 11/7/2016 2:00:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://diversifiedmachine.info/product/titanium-tube/ He's got a bunch of 1.375x1.259 tubes in both lengths in stock. He also has radial endcaps and low profile endcaps for the 1.375 tubes in stock. You'll also need a booster bushing, which unfortunately are out of stock at the moment. I'd order the endcap and tube and put a note in the comments that you'd like a booster bushing and radials and spacers to fit the tube. To run it on 5.56, I'd go with the Griffin Armament taper mount, probably a minimalist brake. Super Precision Concepts has a Griffin taper mount adapter for B tubes coming out soon. It will fit the DM booster bushing and allow you to switch back and forth between the Griffin taper mount and the pistol booster. Also, one other point I forgot to mention earlier, the Gemtech booster is only available in 9mm thread patterns. You'll need the Liberty if you want to run anything larger than 9mm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, I don't even have a threaded .45 right now. It will mostly be used on a 9mm and 5.56 for now; I just make it bigger to give me more options later on down the road. If the tube is so poorly designed, who makes a better one? Links? I've only ever bought from SDTA and have a pretty limited skillset, so I would prefer to keep it as simple as I can. He's got a bunch of 1.375x1.259 tubes in both lengths in stock. He also has radial endcaps and low profile endcaps for the 1.375 tubes in stock. You'll also need a booster bushing, which unfortunately are out of stock at the moment. I'd order the endcap and tube and put a note in the comments that you'd like a booster bushing and radials and spacers to fit the tube. To run it on 5.56, I'd go with the Griffin Armament taper mount, probably a minimalist brake. Super Precision Concepts has a Griffin taper mount adapter for B tubes coming out soon. It will fit the DM booster bushing and allow you to switch back and forth between the Griffin taper mount and the pistol booster. Also, one other point I forgot to mention earlier, the Gemtech booster is only available in 9mm thread patterns. You'll need the Liberty if you want to run anything larger than 9mm. How often does his inventory refresh? His direct-thread 1/2x28 (what I'd use for 5.56) endcaps are out of stock, and I'm not seeing any freeze plugs or baffles on his website at all? What plugs fit his tubes? |
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Posted: 11/7/2016 2:05:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How often does his inventory refresh? His direct-thread 1/2x28 (what I'd use for 5.56) endcaps are out of stock, and I'm not seeing any freeze plugs or baffles on his website at all? What plugs fit his tubes? |
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Posted: 11/7/2016 7:27:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Somewhat contradictory but in line with what JoshAshton is saying. The B tube is workable as is the Gemtech LID(9mm only). But not in line with your plan. I have one 7.6" finished with 9 60degree(6 Ti, 3 Al) cones with standard single scoop clip, 9mm bore size(.406). I lightened the tube by nearly 2oz by turning down OD between threads to 1.28". I really wouldn't use it for a dedicated .45, half your internal volume will be bore. As a dedicated 9mm, it works great, supers are hearing safe. My .45 can is built using the DM 1.375", it is definitely the better option, and the only booster suitable is the Liberty. Personally, I'd stay away from aluminum unless you have the ability to anodize it correctly.
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Posted: 11/7/2016 7:31:08 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm having a 7075 tube anodized by US Anodizing. But aluminum is wholly unsuitable for rifle calibers. Mine will be a dedicated 9mm can.
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Posted: 11/7/2016 7:44:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Somewhat contradictory but in line with what JoshAshton is saying. The B tube is workable as is the Gemtech LID(9mm only). But not in line with your plan. I have one 7.6" finished with 9 60degree(6 Ti, 3 Al) cones with standard single scoop clip, 9mm bore size(.406). I lightened the tube by nearly 2oz by turning down OD between threads to 1.28". I really wouldn't use it for a dedicated .45, half your internal volume will be bore. As a dedicated 9mm, it works great, supers are hearing safe. My .45 can is built using the DM 1.375", it is definitely the better option, and the only booster suitable is the Liberty. Personally, I'd stay away from aluminum unless you have the ability to anodize it correctly. Definitely not going to touch aluminum. Already have an aluminum AAC for 22lr that works great, but I'm not about to try it on anything else. 
As far as handgun calibers go, the vast majority would be 9mm. Like I don't even have a .45 or plans to get one, but I'm in college and on a budget so I'd like to have the ability to tame one down if I ever get one in the future, so having a bigger ID for .45 isn't really high on my priority list, especially if it would make supersonic 9mm hearing safe like you said, and it could handle 5.56 from a 10.5 and 20" barrel. Maybe some .308 if I ever get one of those too. |
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Posted: 11/7/2016 9:01:50 PM EDT
[#12]
If I were to use a B tube with a Liberty booster, knowing ahead it may not suppress .45 very well in a few years when I try it, is there someone that makes pre-formed baffles that I could just toss in the lathe and bore out? I don't have access to a hydraulic press, so I'm a little limited when it comes to forming them. I can't make incredibly deep cones, and I wish my .30 rifle can's cones were deeper, so if anyone makes pre-formed ones that I could just drill out, then it would make life easier. I haven't kept up with all of the F1 can part manufacturers...
Something like these (ignore the website branding). |
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Posted: 11/7/2016 9:10:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Yes, but even if you build it only for 9mm and 5.56, go with the DM. It's by far the better option and you won't really be happy with the B tube, especially if you ever get the chance to compare it to a commercial can.
Diversified Machine, ZMachineWorx, Stacks Unlimited, Texas Arms Co, and Juliet Delta Customs can make you the cones. Comparing prices, the DM tube is $30 more than the SD. The endcap is $10 more. Then you'll need the booster bushing which is $25. So for $65 you get a much higher quality, more effective, and lighter can. You only get one shot at these things. |
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Posted: 11/7/2016 9:23:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Remind me again what exactly does the booster bushing do, and why does the DM tube need one while the SDTA tube doesn't? Since it isn't in stock (and neither are Ti direct-thread 1/2x28 end caps which I would need), do they normally replace stock pretty often? I would hate to be waiting weeks for a part needed to finish it while I had everything else ready to go. I'm hoping to buy parts either this week or next and I'd prefer to get it all at once.
Also, another random question. On my last can I used a VSR, but on this one I want to use a titanium spacer for the blast chamber, as well as a few spacers in the can to reduce the number of baffles and cut down on weight. My understanding is that you assemble it for the first time and everything is tight in the shop, but it will loosen up after the first time shooting due to the baffles and spacers settling in and what not. With the VSR I used, I didn't have a problem with this, as it kept tension tight the whole time. But, if I measure out perfect-length Ti spacers and it settles in, thus loosening up the baffle stack upon shooting it initially, am I just supposed to cut another spacer that's slightly longer to replace an existing one, thereby tightening the stack up again? If not, what's the protocol on keeping things tight? Apologies if that isn't worded as eloquently as I'm imagining it... |
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Posted: 11/7/2016 9:55:53 PM EDT
[#15]
The B tube is a direct fit to the bushing. The 1.375 isn't, so you need the bushing. Just put a note on your order that you need it.
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Posted: 11/8/2016 7:30:36 PM EDT
[#16]
The DM 1.375 tubes are awesome for pistol builds. My next two builds will be dedicated 9mm and .45 builds using DM parts. Forget the B tube, others have gone down that path and have not been happy with the end result.
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Posted: 1/18/2017 1:12:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Bumping this because I'm hopefully going to start buying a few parts soon. For a DM build, this is what I need, correct?
- Titanium 1.375 X 1.259 7.75" tube: http://diversifiedmachine.us/product/titanium-tube/?attribute_od-id=1.375+x+1.259&attribute_length=7.750 - 1.375" Titanium Low Profile Endcap: http://diversifiedmachine.us/product/low-profile-endcap/?attribute_material=Titanium&attribute_thread-pitch-od=DM+1.375+OD-24tpi - Booster bushing: http://diversifiedmachine.us/product/titanium-booster-bushing/ - Liberty Booster, 9mm 1/2x28: http://libertycans.net/product/recoil-booster-assembly/ - And then the guts, which I don't see listen on DM's website. Question time! 1. For the baffles, am I supposed to call DM and "manually" add them to my order? 2. Is there another website that sells pre-formed cones that just need to be bored out on a lathe but would fit this tube (and aren't super expensive)? I have access to a lathe, but I don't have access to a hydraulic press to easily form cones. 3. Where can I get info on how many baffles, spacers, spacer lengths, etc. are needed to work well--any confirmed configurations that ended up nicely? Trying to see if I can buy the exact number of baffles/plugs with the correct numbers and lengths of spacers to save money and nail it on the first try. 4. Is a VSR recommended, or is it better to use spacers? 5. If I want to use it on pistols in a thread pitch and caliber other than 1/2x28 9mm, do I just order other pistons like these that match the caliber/thread pitch I want, pop them in the booster, and I'm good to go? 6. If I want to use this on a rifle, can I use a direct thread end cap and be done (yes, I know the laws)? ie Is this tube strong enough to hold up to 556? What about 308? This will mainly be used on pistols, but I would like the option for rifles too if it can handle it. Sorry for all of the new guy questions, but it would really clear things up if someone can answer them all. THANKS! 
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Posted: 1/18/2017 1:20:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1. For the baffles, am I supposed to call DM and "manually" add them to my order? 2. Is there another website that sells pre-formed cones that just need to be bored out on a lathe but would fit this tube (and aren't super expensive)? I have access to a lathe, but I don't have access to a hydraulic press to easily form cones. 3. Where can I get info on how many baffles, spacers, spacer lengths, etc. are needed to work well--any confirmed configurations that ended up nicely? Trying to see if I can buy the exact number of baffles/plugs with the correct numbers and lengths of spacers to save money and nail it on the first try. 4. Is a VSR recommended, or is it better to use spacers? 5. If I want to use it on pistols in a thread pitch and caliber other than 1/2x28 9mm, do I just order other pistons like these that match the caliber/thread pitch I want, pop them in the booster, and I'm good to go? 6. If I want to use this on a rifle, can I use a direct thread end cap and be done (yes, I know the laws)? ie Is this tube strong enough to hold up to 556? What about 308? This will mainly be used on pistols, but I would like the option for rifles too if it can handle it. Sorry for all of the new guy questions, but it would really clear things up if someone can answer them all. THANKS! Yes to all the parts. 1) Include a note with your order stating that you'd like radials to fit. 2) ZMachineworx or Stacks Unltd. 3) Just add them to your order from DM, he'll make sure everything fits perfectly 4) I'd just use the radials from DM, they're made by ZMachineWorx. 5) Yes, just replace the piston with other thread pitches for other pistols. You can only use Liberty pistons with the Liberty booster. 6) Yes, or you can put a spacer in place of the booster spring and use it that way. Yes, there are several being used on 5.56 and .308. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 1:24:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Just edited my post with numbers on the questions to make it a little more organized but you beat me to it.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Include a note with your order stating that you'd like radials to fit. What are radials? Is that DM terminology for baffles? Are they pre-formed cones? |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 1:25:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are radials? Is that DM terminology for baffles? Are they pre-formed cones? http://form1suppressor.boards.net/thread/1053/dm-kits |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 1:53:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote History10-4, not a member but I'm joining now. I asked a while back on the F1 Cans FB group but didn't get much help--didn't think to look for an actual forum. I have about $200 to spend right now, so I'm gonna go ahead and buy my first wave of parts. Tube, endcap, and booster bushing come in at $191 shipped. |
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Posted: 1/19/2017 9:31:47 PM EDT
[#22]
What calibers can you use a B tube for?
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Posted: 1/21/2017 10:37:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Are titanium Zmachineworx cones ok for centerfire rifle calibers or do I need stainless?
Should I do steel for the first cone and Ti for the rest? Or just Ti everything? |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 12:25:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Just bought a Liberty booster with a 1/2x28 piston, so all I need are cones/spacers now to finish it off. I emailed DM last night about buying the cones/spacers I would need, so hopefully he'll reply soon.
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Posted: 1/23/2017 12:34:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Should I do steel for the first cone and Ti for the rest? Or just Ti everything? |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 1:06:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Up to you. I use a single 17-4 followed by Ti. If I was running a lot of full auto I'd go with all 17-4. I think that's what I'm gonna go with. I'm too poor for FA. Hopefully DM has some for sale |
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Posted: 1/28/2017 10:00:58 PM EDT
[#27]
DM shipped my cones/spacers the other day. Went with a 17-4 followed by 7 Ti radials with spacers. Already got my DM tube, endcap, booster bushing, and booster so I can at least mock it up. It's a little over 10 oz without any spacers/cones yet, so it's gonna be pretty heavy. Still excited to get it finished next week since I've never even shot a suppressed centerfire pistol before, only rifles/rimfire.
Ti is ugly unfinished, so I rattlecanned it black until I can afford to get it cerakoted. 
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Posted: 2/17/2017 12:21:32 AM EDT
[#28]
Just finished everything up.
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Posted: 2/17/2017 8:09:59 AM EDT
[#29]
Honestly I can't tell much difference with it on vs off. Is is actually hearing safe?
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Posted: 2/17/2017 8:24:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly I can't tell much difference with it on vs off. Is is actually hearing safe? |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 9:11:50 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly I can't tell much difference with it on vs off. Is is actually hearing safe? |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 9:18:38 AM EDT
[#32]
op is a terrible shot. he missed every big moving target in the background lol
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Posted: 2/17/2017 10:14:05 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's a definite difference in tone. Sounds like the camera may be clipping the unsuppressed shots. It does clip them a good bit (especially since it's my phone), and it's definitely hearing safe. The sound of hitting steel was as loud, if not louder than the shots themselves. |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 10:14:51 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
op is a terrible shot. he missed every big moving target in the background lol Don't tempt me anymore than I already am.
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Posted: 2/17/2017 5:33:26 PM EDT
[#35]
What is the final weight with the booster? I'm going to be building one very similar to yours in the near future.
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Posted: 2/17/2017 7:23:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is the final weight with the booster? I'm going to be building one very similar to yours in the near future. 15.0 oz with booster, 10.0 oz without |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 8:34:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
15.0 oz with booster, 10.0 oz without That's about what I expected. Thanks. I can't wait to get my parts.
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Posted: 2/17/2017 8:39:30 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's about what I expected. Thanks. I can't wait to get my parts. I had no problems waiting 6 months for my stamp, but the 2 weeks waiting on DM to send my radials/spacers after I had already been approved for a couple months was unbearable.
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Posted: 2/18/2017 10:49:09 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had no problems waiting 6 months for my stamp, but the 2 weeks waiting on DM to send my radials/spacers after I had already been approved for a couple months was unbearable. I'm in the same boat. I ordered all my parts from DM and they are completed right now, but I made the mistake of getting him to give my tube to Zmachineworx to get my engraving done so it's taking even longer.  I haven't even heard from Zmachineworx yet wanting my info to engrave. But that all happened earlier this week so I'm just being impatient.
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Posted: 2/18/2017 10:56:14 AM EDT
[#40]
Dude you scared the horses.
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Posted: 2/18/2017 3:54:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude you scared the horses. I don't care. They aren't mine, and we were here first.
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Posted: 2/18/2017 3:55:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm in the same boat. I ordered all my parts from DM and they are completed right now, but I made the mistake of getting him to give my tube to Zmachineworx to get my engraving done so it's taking even longer. I haven't even heard from Zmachineworx yet wanting my info to engrave. But that all happened earlier this week so I'm just being impatient.Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I had no problems waiting 6 months for my stamp, but the 2 weeks waiting on DM to send my radials/spacers after I had already been approved for a couple months was unbearable. I'm in the same boat. I ordered all my parts from DM and they are completed right now, but I made the mistake of getting him to give my tube to Zmachineworx to get my engraving done so it's taking even longer. I haven't even heard from Zmachineworx yet wanting my info to engrave. But that all happened earlier this week so I'm just being impatient.Should have used an electric pen to freehand it yourself. Free, quick, and still legal
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Posted: 2/18/2017 8:58:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Look into electroetching for the next one. I've done it on 3 f1 cans, a few slides, and countless lowers now and it's pretty fast and easy. Hits .003" in a matter of minutes a day can do fine lines and intricate designs easily
 Attached File |
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Posted: 2/18/2017 9:02:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look into electroetching for the next one. I've done it on 3 f1 cans, a few slides, and countless lowers now and it's pretty fast and easy. Hits .003" in a matter of minutes a day can do fine lines and intricate designs easily https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/53977/20170201-150655-149376.JPG Who does them, and how much does it cost? My SOT charges around $35 I think to engrave, so I would love to find something a good bit cheaper than that. It's hard to pay 8-10% the cost of the can on just engraving |
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Posted: 2/18/2017 9:05:32 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Should have used an electric pen to freehand it yourself. Free, quick, and still legal If you saw my handwriting, you'd know why I'm paying someone else to do it.
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Posted: 2/18/2017 9:05:57 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you saw my handwriting, you'd know why I'm paying someone else to do it. I mean mine is atrocious, but free is free
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Posted: 2/18/2017 9:08:20 PM EDT
[#47]
I did it at my kitchen table in about 10 minutes
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Posted: 2/18/2017 9:09:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Not much going on tomorrow, I'll knock out a few examples and write up a quick diy tutorial
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Posted: 2/18/2017 9:47:19 PM EDT
[#49]
You guys should look into electro etching. Super easy and nice results. Tons of vids in youtube. If you have access to a printer and a dc power supply, than you're almost done.
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Posted: 2/26/2017 9:33:48 PM EDT
[#50]
OK, so I was supposed to do the tutorial a while ago, but its finally up.
Electroetching |
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