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Posted: 10/24/2016 12:18:30 PM EDT
[#1]
AFAIK, there is no suppression advantage (as far as measurable Db reduction) to be gained from a reflex can.
What you can achieve with a reflex design is reduced back pressure / blowback into the action. |
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Posted: 10/24/2016 6:44:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Some people claim a reflex design helps with sound reduction, others don't. I read at best the volume behind the muzzle is only 20% as efficient as what is in front of the muzzle so any improvement would be marginal, especially if you go with the shortest mount DM sells. FWIW I'm doing something kind of similar but using 2.5" mounts for two different uppers, mainly to reduce back pressure using supersonic 5.56 loads.
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Posted: 10/24/2016 10:08:14 PM EDT
[#3]
i'm not looking to reduce the db compared to a traditional can, but i also don't want the performance to be worse either. i like the idea of less blow back and it'll be that much less hanging out there. i'm still undecided though. i may end up running out of patience for dm's mount to come in stock and get a griffin.
my calipers say the ID of my tube is 1.385" so how much smaller should the OD of the cones be? would 1.355" be too small? |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 11:04:57 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some people claim a reflex design helps with sound reduction, others don't. I read at best the volume behind the muzzle is only 20% as efficient as what is in front of the muzzle so any improvement would be marginal, especially if you go with the shortest mount DM sells. FWIW I'm doing something kind of similar but using 2.5" mounts for two different uppers, mainly to reduce back pressure using supersonic 5.56 loads. Its hard to judge by videos but I have posted a few of my reflex shot with commercial cans. Also in some of the 3 gun matches I have attended there have been a handful of 5.56 cans that appeared to be around 7", and I got a lot of comments about my 7.5" reflex can being quieter and it only adds 5" past the barrel. It was also the only one of the suppressed guns that would not reliably set off the shot timer. Reflex is about reducing overall length. As it pertains to 5.56 guns, a 12.5" with a 2.5" DM Reflex mount and a 7.5" Can is about perfect, can goes back to the gas block, you are not giving up much much velocity to the 16" guns, and it's still about 2" shorter with the suppressor installed than most 16"s with brakes. |
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Posted: 10/27/2016 10:43:45 PM EDT
[#5]
what diameter cones should i go with?
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Posted: 10/27/2016 10:50:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i'm not looking to reduce the db compared to a traditional can, but i also don't want the performance to be worse either. i like the idea of less blow back and it'll be that much less hanging out there. i'm still undecided though. i may end up running out of patience for dm's mount to come in stock and get a griffin. my calipers say the ID of my tube is 1.385" so how much smaller should the OD of the cones be? would 1.355" be too small? 1.355 would be too small, look for 1.380 or maybe 1.375, 1.375 should be easy to find |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 12:23:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1.355 would be too small, look for 1.380 or maybe 1.375, 1.375 should be easy to find Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
i'm not looking to reduce the db compared to a traditional can, but i also don't want the performance to be worse either. i like the idea of less blow back and it'll be that much less hanging out there. i'm still undecided though. i may end up running out of patience for dm's mount to come in stock and get a griffin. my calipers say the ID of my tube is 1.385" so how much smaller should the OD of the cones be? would 1.355" be too small? 1.355 would be too small, look for 1.380 or maybe 1.375, 1.375 should be easy to find i was afraid that may be the case. zmachine has a stainless cone at 1.372", but not titanium in that size. i really don't want to go the custom route. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 12:53:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.......As it pertains to 5.56 guns, a 12.5" with a 2.5" DM Reflex mount and a 7.5" Can is about perfect, can goes back to the gas block, you are not giving up much much velocity to the 16" guns, and it's still about 2" shorter with the suppressor installed than most 16"s with brakes..... I am 100% agreement with this statement. 
This 12.5" SBR is the quietest 5.56 semi-auto rifle I have ever heard. With a DM 2.5" reflex and an 8" suppressor. (Only about 1" longer than a 16" carbine without a suppressor) 
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Posted: 2/18/2017 9:31:37 PM EDT
[#9]
i'm doing it. going to rebarrel the upper with most likely a ballistic advantage barrel and probably use a griffin reflex brake.
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Posted: 2/19/2017 2:04:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Your SDTA Ti tube will be about 1.36 ID. They vary a little but a 1.355 cone should be a good fit. The 1.385ish measument that you are getting is the minor diameter of the threads.
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Posted: 2/19/2017 4:03:18 PM EDT
[#11]
It also depends on whether or not you intend to use a muzzle brake and what you do w/ the reflex portion.
Putting a dividing plate at the end of the muzzle brake, to create 2 separate chambers, is better than just making the blast chamber bigger (by reflexing rearward). |
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Posted: 2/19/2017 8:40:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your SDTA Ti tube will be about 1.36 ID. They vary a little but a 1.355 cone should be a good fit. The 1.385ish measument that you are getting is the minor diameter of the threads. Yeah, rusty over at form 1 suppressor got me straightened out on the ID and I picked up 2 SS and 5 Ti 1.355" cones from ZmachineworX. I just need to get them drilled and clipped. I still need the barrel, mount, and spacers, but yesterday I impulse bought an FNX-45T with RMR. Stupid pawn shop deals... |
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Posted: 2/19/2017 8:42:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It also depends on whether or not you intend to use a muzzle brake and what you do w/ the reflex portion. Putting a dividing plate at the end of the muzzle brake, to create 2 separate chambers, is better than just making the blast chamber bigger (by reflexing rearward). Someone was telling me about using a washer in their can, I wonder if that's what it was for. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 10:35:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone was telling me about using a washer in their can, I wonder if that's what it was for. Most likely, I put one in mine as two chambers. I just turned a small piece of stainless and bored the hole placing it .2 In front of it with 6 .12 gas ports. Works well but to be honest it sounds the same without it. I used a 8.5" 1.5 id ti tube fyi and it may sound different with a smaller tube or different baffles. I just turned some ti and made cups "M baffles° with a 45° cone for mine. It was my first form 1 can for center fire and it lives on a 300 blk. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 2:47:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most likely, I put one in mine as two chambers. I just turned a small piece of stainless and bored the hole placing it .2 In front of it with 6 .12 gas ports. Works well but to be honest it sounds the same without it. I used a 8.5" 1.5 id ti tube fyi and it may sound different with a smaller tube or different baffles. I just turned some ti and made cups "M baffles° with a 45° cone for mine. It was my first form 1 can for center fire and it lives on a 300 blk. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Someone was telling me about using a washer in their can, I wonder if that's what it was for. Most likely, I put one in mine as two chambers. I just turned a small piece of stainless and bored the hole placing it .2 In front of it with 6 .12 gas ports. Works well but to be honest it sounds the same without it. I used a 8.5" 1.5 id ti tube fyi and it may sound different with a smaller tube or different baffles. I just turned some ti and made cups "M baffles° with a 45° cone for mine. It was my first form 1 can for center fire and it lives on a 300 blk. I really wanted a larger diameter tube, like the 1.625" tube from DM, but I got tired of waiting for some to come in stock. And now they have some. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 2:56:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just turned a small piece of stainless and bored the hole placing it .2 In front of it with 6 .12 gas ports. Works well but to be honest it sounds the same without it. Quote HistoryQuoted: I just turned a small piece of stainless and bored the hole placing it .2 In front of it with 6 .12 gas ports. Works well but to be honest it sounds the same without it. What has the holes in it? The spacer/washer/disc? Or are you describing a muzzle brake/device? If you put the holes in the chamber separator (washer/disc), than the purpose is defeated. Quoted: Works well but to be honest it sounds the same without it. A true reflex will go much farther than the 1.5"-2.5" most here speak of. This dimension is more of a blast chamber extension, rather than a reflex. This may be why you experienced no appreciable difference. And, yes, you're correct that there are many variables attributed to the success of such a feature. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 3:47:26 PM EDT
[#17]
By tube was actually 11.5, thinking of the intergal 22lr I built on size.
It has a 3" blast chamber from disc rearward, 2" chamber beyond that and 6 Mbaffles. The holes in the spacer were for gas reduction due to excessive blowback on the 300blk upper. Pressure would increase and blow back into chamber after repetition and cause over gassing. I am debating on scrapping the upper and putting the can on a 700 300blk build now but haven't made up my mind. I dont feel like dropping more money on the 700 with the mods to the barrel I would have to do. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 4:39:38 PM EDT
[#18]
With regard to back-pressure (blowback), on gas operated semi's, I prefer to manage this with adjustable gas blocks, port sizing, and spring/buffer combos.
You can see an advantage, with suppression, when the baffles are allowed extra gas volume and pressure. The design doesn't have to work as hard to strip the gases from the bore-line. This is one of the reasons bolt guns can see better suppression numbers than semi's. I'm not talking about metering at the shooter's ear (induced action noise), but at the muzzle. Not saying it would be night and day, but I'm sure a solid disc (as a dividing plate) would offer greater suppression than one with holes. Especially if the gas was managed in the way I described above. Yes, too many variables, when it comes to suppressors. This is why I design and build per gun , I only have one Form1 that gets swapped.
I know, not always feasible. |
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Posted: 5/2/2017 10:28:33 PM EDT
[#19]
rusty from the form 1 board is going to machine the cones with his dhc clipping and make one of his new reflex mounts for the can.
edit: i rebarreled the upper with a 12.5" ballistic advantage barrel. |
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Posted: 5/3/2017 1:10:00 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i was afraid that may be the case. zmachine has a stainless cone at 1.372", but not titanium in that size. i really don't want to go the custom route.
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Posted: 5/3/2017 4:44:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plenty of Ti in that size Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
i was afraid that may be the case. zmachine has a stainless cone at 1.372", but not titanium in that size. i really don't want to go the custom route. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 2:05:48 PM EDT
[#22]
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