Mini 14 Co-witness?

Posted: 1/9/2017 9:47:44 AM EDT

Does anyone run a scout rail (Ultimax is the lowest) with a micro-dot or any other combo and get any type of co-witness?

I await your responses and pics.
Thanks

Posted: 1/10/2017 12:06:42 PM EDT

[#1]

See my answer to this same question you asked on Perfect Union.

Short answer, impossible to co-witness a iron sight .9" above bore axis with a glass sight.

Posted: 1/21/2017 9:56:32 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
See my answer to this same question you asked on Perfect Union.

Short answer, impossible to co-witness a iron sight .9" above bore axis with a glass sight.

View Quote

^This. The sights sit too low

Posted: 1/24/2017 12:48:14 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Does anyone run a scout rail (Ultimax is the lowest) with a micro-dot or any other combo and get any type of co-witness?

I await your responses and pics.
Thanks

View Quote

Not what you're after, but there is a mount that replaces the rear sight with a Burris fastfire and supposedly cowitnesses. I think it is by RRages -- I don't have one but it looks pretty slick.

Posted: 1/24/2017 10:26:13 AM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not what you're after, but there is a mount that replaces the rear sight with a Burris fastfire and supposedly cowitnesses. I think it is by RRages -- I don't have one but it looks pretty slick.

View Quote

This is semi correct, it does put the dot around the front sight (slightly above it), however, because it replaces the rear sight with the red dot off or failed, you have no rear sight at all so there isn't anything to co-witness with. See it HERE.

Posted: 1/24/2017 12:16:31 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is semi correct, it does put the dot around the front sight (slightly above it), however, because it replaces the rear sight with the red dot off or failed, you have no rear sight at all so there isn't anything to co-witness with. See it HERE.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Not what you're after, but there is a mount that replaces the rear sight with a Burris fastfire and supposedly cowitnesses. I think it is by RRages -- I don't have one but it looks pretty slick.

This is semi correct, it does put the dot around the front sight (slightly above it), however, because it replaces the rear sight with the red dot off or failed, you have no rear sight at all so there isn't anything to co-witness with. See it HERE.

Looks like it sits around where a lower 1/3 cowitness sits on an AR. The link says it's for 58X series, so that's something to keep in mind.

Posted: 1/24/2017 11:57:56 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is semi correct, it does put the dot around the front sight (slightly above it), however, because it replaces the rear sight with the red dot off or failed, you have no rear sight at all so there isn't anything to co-witness with. See it HERE.

View Quote

From the way the website describes it, I thought you would be able to use the rear sight as a ghost ring with the front sight, as long as the sight itself was still there. I don't know if that would be actually effective, and of course if the rear sight comes off then you're left with point and shoot.

Posted: 1/26/2017 12:21:16 PM EDT

[#7]

The image window of the red dot is about 1" square so theoretically one could place the front sight in the middle of it and fire. That said, when a target or NM rear aperture is like .042" in diameter, how 'target' would a 1" aperture that's 567 times larger be? Sure, your eye would attempt to find the middle but that's a large aperture to sight through. As another option if you lose the red dot, back in the 60's we'd teach the recruits to 'snap shoot' at close targets with their M14s. Snap shooting entailed looking down the side of the barrel at the target for close up shots rather than through the sights. The thinking at the time was it was faster than trying to acquire the front and rear sight on a pop up target. Effective on man sized targets at very close range but fairly useless at 100yds.

Posted: 2/4/2017 9:05:06 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
Short answer, impossible to co-witness a iron sight .9" above bore axis with a glass sight.

View Quote

It is most certainly NOT impossible to co-witness a red dot on a Mini-14. But it's tricky. Most optics on most rails are too tall. But I've found a combination that works. Here's my setup:

Ultimak rail with a Primary Arms fixed base Micro Red Dot.

And it cowitnesses. It's a very low cowitness (lower 1/5th or so of the optic), but it's usable.

Here are some awful photos to try and illustrate the cowitness. (It's really hard to get shots like that with a smartphone camera.)

Normal view through the optic.

View through the rear sight (with cowitness).

Posted: 2/4/2017 11:39:44 PM EDT

[#9]

You can ask a thousand times but the answer will still be the same. Like the the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, and the M14/M1A and just like most bolt action rifles as well, the sights are simply too low on the bore axis to allow any currently made optics, whether they be a magnified scope or a red dot, to co-witness with the existing iron sights. It's impossible to co-witness the Mini-14/Mini-30/Mini-300 BO's iron sights to any optics.

Ask as many times on as many forums as you like but the answer will always be the same. It simply is impossible.

Posted: 2/4/2017 11:42:37 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
You can ask a thousand times but the answer will still be the same. Like the the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, and the M14/M1A and just like most bolt action rifles as well, the sights are simply too low on the bore axis to allow any currently made optics, whether they be a magnified scope or a red dot, to co-witness with the existing iron sights. It's impossible to co-witness the Mini-14/Mini-30/Mini-300 BO's iron sights to any optics.

Ask as many times on as many forums as you like but the answer will always be the same. It simply is impossible.

View Quote

Okay, Steve... Now you're just being contrary. I've clearly pointed out that it is possible, and even provided photographic evidence to back up my claim for doubters like yourself.

If you're ever in my neck of the woods, you're welcome to inspect my "impossible" Mini-14, since you apparently think I'm a liar.

Cowitness on other rifles you've mentioned is also not impossible, with the right combination of rail and red dot optic. For example, here's a M1A with an Ultimak rail and an Aimpoint PRO in a low mount ring. It cowitnesses too.

You can find other cowitness examples for the Mini-14, M1A, M1 Garand, etc. elsewhere online, using various optics and Ultimak rails.

Bottom line: It's definitely unimpossible.

Posted: 2/5/2017 5:52:01 PM EDT

[#11]

Interesting. Your Co-witness 'Mini-14' looks strangely just like a M1A and nothing like a Mini-14 so what does that prove about the Mini? Nothing! Show us your 'co-witness'd Mini-14' as that's what the OP asked about, not an M1A.

Posted: 2/5/2017 5:54:30 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Interesting. Your Co-witness 'Mini-14' looks strangely just like a M1A and nothing like a Mini-14 so what does that prove about the Mini? Nothing! Show us your 'co-witness'd Mini-14' as that's what the OP asked about, not an M1A.

View Quote

Geez, man. Reading is fundamental. I'm getting the feeling that you're being deliberately obtuse here.

My first post in this thread (yesterday at 7:05 PM CST) has the photos and description of my cowitnessed Mini-14.

My second post in this thread (yesterday at 9:43 PM CST) gives a further example of a cowitnessed M1A, since you went on to claim that it's also impossible to cowitness an optic on one of those as well.

Or are you just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative?

Posted: 2/5/2017 5:56:56 PM EDT

[#13]

Never mind.

Posted: 2/5/2017 5:59:10 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
You don't understand what the term co-witness means. Your last picture shows that to see the red dot through the optic you have to look over the rear sight. That means by definition that it's not co-witnessed. Try again.

View Quote

It appears that you are the one who doesn't understand. See the third and final picture in my first post for a clear photo of the red dot positioned on the tip of the front sight while viewed through the rear sight. That's called cowitness.

Posted: 2/9/2017 11:32:46 AM EDT

[#15]

WOW!

If you look at both of the co-witness examples Mini and M1A you can see it is obviously a different opic at least.

Posted: 5/12/2017 7:17:37 PM EDT

[#16]

We may be very close to putting this debate to bed.

Posted: 5/12/2017 11:57:56 PM EDT

[#17]

Talk to this guy about his Dominator sight.

http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/ruger-mini-14-mini-30/158234-dominator-mini-14-30-front-sight-set.html

https://www.trueshottechnologies.com/

Posted: 7/12/2017 8:39:54 AM EDT

[#18]

Yes, you can co-witness with a mini-14. I built this as a Christmas gift for my father. This is an older mini cut down to 16.5" with a ultimak rail, older choate front sight/flash hider, older Primary arms dot sight with fixed, and XS rear ghost right sight. The choate front sight is slightly taller than factory and the XS rear sight has a greater adjustable range (and better than the factory folding wing sight). Primary arms no longer offers a fixed base micro dot, but the Bushnell TRS 25 is the same height and is fixed. If you can't find the choate front sight, Mo-reaper makes a version. You will get a co-witness that's between a 1/3 and 1/2 through the micro dot.

Posted: 7/12/2017 10:44:31 AM EDT

[#19]

...

Posted: 7/28/2017 9:29:47 AM EDT

[#20]

Mine co-witnessed with an Ultimak and the original Primary Arms Micro, but the later micro model with a removable base will not co-witness because it is slightly too high..

The photos below are the original micro dot

Attached File

Attached File

below is with the newer micro dot

Attached File

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