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Posted: 10/3/2014 8:45:10 AM EDT
[#1]
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No idea why other builders havent used AR mags in a bolt gun. Must be a design constraint. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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MVP! I love ruger but not taking the easiest and most plentiful magazine on earth - ar15/M16 mag- is a idiotic move. There is a reason that nobody wants to produce a bolt gun that feeds from ar mags.......the same reason that the mvp is a piece of junk. Ruger picked the bolt action magazine of choice, aics. I am curious to know what testing and research you have done that lead to these conclusions ? No idea why other builders havent used AR mags in a bolt gun. Must be a design constraint. As others stated, the bolt has to be altered, or re-designed to strip rounds from AR mags. I'm sure the same process will work with Mini 14 mags. That's how Mossberg did it. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 8:55:23 AM EDT
[#2]
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http://www.shootingtimes.com/first-look/first-look-ruger-gunsite-scout-rifle-223-rem-5-56-nato/ Shame even in 5.56/.223 it won't take AR mags. Nice rifle, though. I'm picking up a Mossberg Thunder Ranch today. 
IMHO, it's a much better gun for the money. And takes AR mags!! I had a discussion with a Mossberg marketing guy recently and they are coming out with a Thunder Ranch version in .308 with a forward mounted scope rail. It uses M1A and AR10 mags.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 9:02:36 AM EDT
[#3]
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Misses the mark. I'll take a Savage MVP over it any day. I think you mean Mossberg MVP, which is what the Thunder Ranch and Patrol rifles are. Mossberg is making some damned nice bolt-guns these days. And they are priced very well, too. I think the Ruger is over priced and they really screwed up on the AICS magazine. I think they could have picked up a lot more market share (from guys like us with 87,000 AR mags laying around) by using AR mags. Ruger has a habit of almost giving us what we want. The Savage guns are nice but the stock is very cheap feeling. The Thunder Ranch stock hss plastic but doesn't seem "hollow" like the Savage. The MVP laminate stock is a thing of beauty as well. Mossberg has some really cool announcements to make at SHOT next year. Gonna really take a bite out of Ruger's GSR market. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 9:09:58 AM EDT
[#4]
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You do realize it is using the industry standard magazine for bolt guns correct?  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The fact it doesn't take AR mags is pretty stupid. The fact that it doesn't take even a Ruger mini 14 mag that Ruger makes is bordering on insane. Each of the above mags are presently in production and available in sizes to be compliant even in stupid states Management at Ruger comes up with some very interesting guns but almost always they manage to incorporate at least two messed up items on every new gun . Usually it is just a crappy trigger You do realize it is using the industry standard magazine for bolt guns correct? Mossberg gets it. Ruger, not so much. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:33:51 PM EDT
[#5]
I haven't found an MVP in a gunstore yet that didnt balance like a cinderblock. And I definitely dont understand and the whining about magazines. I have a bunch or M14 magazines and I really could care less that they dont work in one of my bolt guns. It didnt bother me to buy different magazines when I got an M14 (or Ak or AR etc etc) and it doesnt bother me now to buy different magazines for a bolt gun. I'd get tired of running a bolt if I had magazines larger than 10 rounds anyway so other than a random magazine dump at the range what does everyone want them for?
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Posted: 10/4/2014 1:16:20 PM EDT
[#6]
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Mossberg gets it. Ruger, not so much. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The fact it doesn't take AR mags is pretty stupid. The fact that it doesn't take even a Ruger mini 14 mag that Ruger makes is bordering on insane. Each of the above mags are presently in production and available in sizes to be compliant even in stupid states Management at Ruger comes up with some very interesting guns but almost always they manage to incorporate at least two messed up items on every new gun . Usually it is just a crappy trigger You do realize it is using the industry standard magazine for bolt guns correct? Mossberg gets it. Ruger, not so much. You guys do know what a patent is right? Mossberg's proprietary bolt is patented. That is how they are able to use AR mags. I don't think most people realize what it took to re engineer a bolt gun to use AR mags. I think Ruger used the best system on the market which is AICS. The MVP design does not come without consequences though as the Mossberg gun is wide to accommodate double stack mags making it feel like a brick. I've spent time with both guns and have a GSR 308 that won't be going away. I can deal with $28 dollar mags and it is a huge advantage to have an almost flush fit 3 round mag for hunting. The smallest mvp mag still sticks out a lot making awkward. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 4:13:03 PM EDT
[#7]
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I have ben critical of Ruger not putting a Mini 14 magazine or AR magazine on this rifle. But I understand you can put a much heavier and longer bullet in the magazine and it has a 1/8 twist. I may have to rethink my criticism. But, to take advantage of the 1/8 twist and a longer magazine to load longer bullets, the rifle is in BAD NEED of a longer barrel. This combo needs a 20 inch barrel to get the maximum benefit out of any potential heavier and longer bullet. I hope there is more to come on this rifle. kwg I got a look at the 5.56 GSR today. I am favorably impressed. The fit and finish looks good for a tactical bolt action with a laminated stock. It feels sturdy and nothing tinkles or rattles. I got a look at the magazine and THERE IS plenty of room to load long. For those of us who hand load I can see the regular use of 77 + grain bullets. Here again, the only issue is barrel length. The 16 inch would be great for standard GI ball ammo but to take advantage of the 1/8 twist and longer bullets, I think an 18 is the minimum and 20 inch would be better. I feel better about the whole rifle now that I have seen one. $850 out the door with one magazine. kwg |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 12:59:17 AM EDT
[#8]
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You guys do know what a patent is right? Mossberg's proprietary bolt is patented. That is how they are able to use AR mags. I don't think most people realize what it took to re engineer a bolt gun to use AR mags. I think Ruger used the best system on the market which is AICS. The MVP design does not come without consequences though as the Mossberg gun is wide to accommodate double stack mags making it feel like a brick. I've spent time with both guns and have a GSR 308 that won't be going away. I can deal with $28 dollar mags and it is a huge advantage to have an almost flush fit 3 round mag for hunting. The smallest mvp mag still sticks out a lot making awkward. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The fact it doesn't take AR mags is pretty stupid. The fact that it doesn't take even a Ruger mini 14 mag that Ruger makes is bordering on insane. Each of the above mags are presently in production and available in sizes to be compliant even in stupid states Management at Ruger comes up with some very interesting guns but almost always they manage to incorporate at least two messed up items on every new gun . Usually it is just a crappy trigger You do realize it is using the industry standard magazine for bolt guns correct? Mossberg gets it. Ruger, not so much. You guys do know what a patent is right? Mossberg's proprietary bolt is patented. That is how they are able to use AR mags. I don't think most people realize what it took to re engineer a bolt gun to use AR mags. I think Ruger used the best system on the market which is AICS. The MVP design does not come without consequences though as the Mossberg gun is wide to accommodate double stack mags making it feel like a brick. I've spent time with both guns and have a GSR 308 that won't be going away. I can deal with $28 dollar mags and it is a huge advantage to have an almost flush fit 3 round mag for hunting. The smallest mvp mag still sticks out a lot making awkward. I picked up my Mossberg Thunder Ranch on Friday and shot it all weekend long... As for feeling wide like a brick, I have no idea WTH you are talking about. It's as slim as any bolt rifle I've ever shouldered. It's very light weight (unlike the GSR) and quick handling. I ran 20 round USGI mags with zero issues. And the 10 round mag that is supplied is just fine, too. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 9:37:38 AM EDT
[#9]
You guys do know what a patent is right? Mossberg's proprietary bolt is patented. That is how they are able to use AR mags. I don't think most people realize what it took to re engineer a bolt gun to use AR mags. I think Ruger used the best system on the market which is AICS. The MVP design does not come without consequences though as the Mossberg gun is wide to accommodate double stack mags making it feel like a brick. I've spent time with both guns and have a GSR 308 that won't be going away. I can deal with $28 dollar mags and it is a huge advantage to have an almost flush fit 3 round mag for hunting. The smallest mvp mag still sticks out a lot making awkward. I think it's possible for Ruger to design their own special bolt without infringing on Mossberg's patent, however I doubt they want to go through that much trouble (additional tooling and production costs) for one specific rifle model and caliber choice. I think they'd rather keep production costs down by using existing in-house or easy to install aftermarket components. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 6:02:33 PM EDT
[#10]
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I picked up my Mossberg Thunder Ranch on Friday and shot it all weekend long... As for feeling wide like a brick, I have no idea WTH you are talking about. It's as slim as any bolt rifle I've ever shouldered. It's very light weight (unlike the GSR) and quick handling. I ran 20 round USGI mags with zero issues. And the 10 round mag that is supplied is just fine, too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The fact it doesn't take AR mags is pretty stupid. The fact that it doesn't take even a Ruger mini 14 mag that Ruger makes is bordering on insane. Each of the above mags are presently in production and available in sizes to be compliant even in stupid states Management at Ruger comes up with some very interesting guns but almost always they manage to incorporate at least two messed up items on every new gun . Usually it is just a crappy trigger You do realize it is using the industry standard magazine for bolt guns correct? Mossberg gets it. Ruger, not so much. You guys do know what a patent is right? Mossberg's proprietary bolt is patented. That is how they are able to use AR mags. I don't think most people realize what it took to re engineer a bolt gun to use AR mags. I think Ruger used the best system on the market which is AICS. The MVP design does not come without consequences though as the Mossberg gun is wide to accommodate double stack mags making it feel like a brick. I've spent time with both guns and have a GSR 308 that won't be going away. I can deal with $28 dollar mags and it is a huge advantage to have an almost flush fit 3 round mag for hunting. The smallest mvp mag still sticks out a lot making awkward. I picked up my Mossberg Thunder Ranch on Friday and shot it all weekend long... As for feeling wide like a brick, I have no idea WTH you are talking about. It's as slim as any bolt rifle I've ever shouldered. It's very light weight (unlike the GSR) and quick handling. I ran 20 round USGI mags with zero issues. And the 10 round mag that is supplied is just fine, too. I'm sure that how it "feels" can be very subjective. I just think with the forend being as wide as it is, the thing feels much bulkier than my GSR. |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 8:46:19 AM EDT
[#11]
Sorry, but it's not just subjective. It's not a wide stock on the Thunder Ranch. It's not any wider than a Remington 700. Here's a pic of a Savage 10 (left) Thunder Ranch (center) and AR w/Noveske NSR rail. As you can see there's nothing particularly wide about the Thunder Ranch with AR magwell.
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Posted: 10/7/2014 8:57:50 AM EDT
[#12]
If they had made it in .45 ACP or .44 MAG, and a threaded barrel, I would have been all over that.
And yes, why in the F^#* did they make it take AR mags?! Mossberg was able to figure it out. 
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Posted: 10/7/2014 9:26:03 AM EDT
[#13]
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If they had made it in .45 ACP or .44 MAG, and a threaded barrel, I would have been all over that. And yes, why in the F^#* did they make it take AR mags?! Mossberg was able to figure it out. According to some posting in this thread adapting AR mags to a bolt action rifle is the darkest form of black magic. On the Mossberg bolt, they designed a small spring loaded hinge that pops down to catch the rear of the shell. It's genius. Simple, but genius. |
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Posted: 10/8/2014 8:46:37 AM EDT
[#14]
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According to some posting in this thread adapting AR mags to a bolt action rifle is the darkest form of black magic. Not even remotely. There just happen to be time tested and easier ways to feed a bolt action from a detachable magazine, and there are better magazines than AR mags. Methods that dont require a little flappy piece of metal. But if your mvp suits you, great. I would just reserve bashing ruger if you cant comprehend anything other than ar mags. If you want a "bolt action" that feeds from ar mags......get a manual side charge ar from the uk. |
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Posted: 10/8/2014 3:01:54 PM EDT
[#15]
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Not even remotely. There just happen to be time tested and easier ways to feed a bolt action from a detachable magazine, and there are better magazines than AR mags. Methods that dont require a little flappy piece of metal. But if your mvp suits you, great. I would just reserve bashing ruger if you cant comprehend anything other than ar mags. If you want a "bolt action" that feeds from ar mags......get a manual side charge ar from the uk. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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According to some posting in this thread adapting AR mags to a bolt action rifle is the darkest form of black magic. Not even remotely. There just happen to be time tested and easier ways to feed a bolt action from a detachable magazine, and there are better magazines than AR mags. Methods that dont require a little flappy piece of metal. But if your mvp suits you, great. I would just reserve bashing ruger if you cant comprehend anything other than ar mags. If you want a "bolt action" that feeds from ar mags......get a manual side charge ar from the uk. I comprehend plenty. I also already have shit-tons of AR mags. I'm not necessarily bashing Ruger. I just think Mossberg hit the mark with their design and price point. The MVP is nearly $300 cheaper and uses mags I already posses. And really? The only other option is importing a rifle from the UK? 
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