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Posted: 2/25/2017 4:54:46 PM EDT
Start out with receiver build pistol, convert to rifle back to pistol = OK

Receiver to pistol to SBR to rifle (title 1) back to SBR = OK

Receiver to pistol to SBR back to Pistol = ?

Once you manufacturer an SBR, does it no longer matter that it was previously a pistol?

Is it thereafter starting life again, and we know rifle to pistol = not OK.
Link Posted: 2/25/2017 4:59:51 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm pretty sure that's correct, but I'm not 100% on that.
Link Posted: 2/25/2017 4:59:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Pistol>SBR>pistol is GTG
Link Posted: 2/25/2017 5:35:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 2/25/2017 8:18:04 PM EDT
[#4]
I have an mpx with a kak shockwave on it, but it's a form 1 sbr so I can shoulder it and use it as a stock. But if I want to take it across state lines with no additional forms, I can just say it's a pistol.

I've heard that if a form 1 lower is on a regular rifle length upper then it's no longer a nfa item and not regulated. So it should apply the same to pistols and pistol braces.
Link Posted: 2/25/2017 9:03:05 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
I completely understand both sides of the discussion.

1. If it was a pistol, you can turn it back into a pistol.
2. With a Form 1, you're making a new firearm that's initially a rifle, so you can't turn it into a pistol.

I've never seen the ATF rule on it in any way. I've seen one email reply when the question was asked and that one individual said it was ok to return it to pistol config.

For me, I don't ever plan on worrying about it. I find AR pistols useless...but I keep two pistol-configured lowers sitting around should the need ever arise to move an upper over to one of them.
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It is simple like that to just use another lower for an ar.  That is what I have always done.  It just because more complicated when you are talking about other guns like an MPX that was bought as a pistol for example.  Can you convert it back to title 1 to sell it/ take across state lines.?

Sounds like a couple of guys have said yes, and it seems that people do.  If I had a scorpion SBR and took the stock off I can't be breaking the law (even if it started as a rifle).  It just seems inconsistent with what the atf has said on other things.
Link Posted: 2/25/2017 9:05:06 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
I have an mpx with a kak shockwave on it, but it's a form 1 sbr so I can shoulder it and use it as a stock. But if I want to take it across state lines with no additional forms, I can just say it's a pistol.

I've heard that if a form 1 lower is on a regular rifle length upper then it's no longer a nfa item and not regulated. So it should apply the same to pistols and pistol braces.
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Hadn't thought of that.  No physical change to the gun at all and still converted.
Link Posted: 3/9/2017 4:38:15 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
I have an mpx with a kak shockwave on it, but it's a form 1 sbr so I can shoulder it and use it as a stock. But if I want to take it across state lines with no additional forms, I can just say it's a pistol.

I've heard that if a form 1 lower is on a regular rifle length upper then it's no longer a nfa item and not regulated. So it should apply the same to pistols and pistol braces.
View Quote


I do not believe that it does apply the same way.  It is my understanding that an SBR lower is an SBR for as long as you retain the parts to make it one. TECHNICALLY, an SBR with a KAK brace on it is still a Short Barrelled Rifle and as such cannot legally be transported across State lines without submitting the form in Advance.  

I have a separate lower receiver, built as a pistol, with a Shockwave on it. If I go to F-I-Laws house one state over to shoot, I remove my short Barrelled upper from my SBR lower and put it on the pistol lower. The SBR lower stays home.

With the current going rate of a stripped lower receiver, it was a no-brainer for me. I thought about saying it was just a pistol lower too, but the SBR engraving on the right side says otherwise.

Then again, I ain't no lawyer, and I also don't recall the MPX being as cooperative with parts swapping.
Link Posted: 3/9/2017 5:01:44 PM EDT
[#8]
If you start with a pistol you can convert it to an SBR and then at any time revert it back to a pistol.

So:

Pistol --->SBR--->pistol = okay

But if you start with a rifle and convert it to an SBR you can not then convert it to a pistol.  You can revert it to a rifle though.

So:

Rifle--->SBR--->rifle = okay

But:

Rifle--->SBR--->pistol = not legal, no beuno, don't do it
Link Posted: 3/9/2017 9:12:27 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
I completely understand both sides of the discussion.

1. If it was a pistol, you can turn it back into a pistol.
2. With a Form 1, you're making a new firearm that's initially a rifle, so you can't turn it into a pistol.

I've never seen the ATF rule on it in any way. I've seen one email reply when the question was asked and that one individual said it was ok to return it to pistol config.

For me, I don't ever plan on worrying about it. I find AR pistols useless...but I keep two pistol-configured lowers sitting around should the need ever arise to move an upper over to one of them.
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Once again, BW nails it. I haven't seen the ATF rule one way or another, but I would like to add to the question that the larger issue is not whether or not it's legal to configure an SBR as a pistol. That is legal. The real question is whether or not configuring an SBR as a pistol makes it (temporarily) a pistol, or if it remains an SBR. It sounds like it's arguing semantics, but it's an important distinction to make because...ATF.

For example, I have a Glock SBR. It started life as a pistol, obviously. I can take the stock off of it. Does taking the stock off make it a pistol or is it still an SBR? It's legal either way, but the law treats the two items differently for the purposes of interstate transport, sale, etc.
Link Posted: 3/10/2017 12:09:07 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 3/10/2017 4:09:36 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:

FWIW...I had that same question even though I don't have a Glock SBR. I sent an email to CAA to ask about their Roni stock, and figured they'd asked the ATF at some point.

Their answer was that it was always an SBR, even when it was out of the stock, and had to be treated as such. Not saying I agree or disagree, just passing on a data point.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

For example, I have a Glock SBR. It started life as a pistol, obviously. I can take the stock off of it. Does taking the stock off make it a pistol or is it still an SBR? It's legal either way, but the law treats the two items differently for the purposes of interstate transport, sale, etc.

FWIW...I had that same question even though I don't have a Glock SBR. I sent an email to CAA to ask about their Roni stock, and figured they'd asked the ATF at some point.

Their answer was that it was always an SBR, even when it was out of the stock, and had to be treated as such. Not saying I agree or disagree, just passing on a data point.


You also have to look at the historical opinion of ATF.

If it was up to the ATF, pistol to rifle to pistol would still be illegal.

It took a case going all the way to SCOTUS for a ruling against ATF as well as years later them holding that ruling over everyone with the threat that that case only applied to TC kits.

It has only been fairly recently that ATF openly stated it was ok to go pistol -> rifle -> pistol

Personally I don't think it worth the risk, so until such time ATF openly publishes an opinion otherwise, I will treat SBRs as rifles
Link Posted: 3/16/2017 8:56:43 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If you start with a pistol you can convert it to an SBR and then at any time revert it back to a pistol.

So:

Pistol --->SBR--->pistol = okay

But if you start with a rifle and convert it to an SBR you can not then convert it to a pistol.  You can revert it to a rifle though.

So:

Rifle--->SBR--->rifle = okay

But:

Rifle--->SBR--->pistol = not legal, no beuno, don't do it
View Quote


My opinion is pretty much inline with BW. What it starts as is irrelevant once you create a sbr because you have made a new rifle and they have always said you can't make a pistol from a rifle.

Like so many of our stupid laws you would probably never get caught because nobody else knows what's going on either including LE and even ATF agents.
Link Posted: 3/16/2017 9:20:00 AM EDT
[#13]
I am currently waiting for my stamp.  When I swap to the carbine extension and adjustable stock as an SBR, does that mean that simply taking off the adjustable stock and leaving it at the house ensures that I have converted my SBR to a pistol again?
Link Posted: 3/16/2017 1:32:36 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
I am currently waiting for my stamp.  When I swap to the carbine extension and adjustable stock as an SBR, does that mean that simply taking off the adjustable stock and leaving it at the house ensures that I have converted my SBR to a pistol again?
View Quote
Short answer, no stock = not a rifle.
Short and probably better answer, long barrel = not an SBR.

Technically and legally, none of us know because of the verbiage of the law itself. "Weapon made from a rifle" or something to that effect.
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