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Posted: 2/1/2017 12:54:41 PM EDT
[#1]
You can engrave at any point in the process. Nothing is stopping you from engraving every firearm (including non-NFA) that you own.
Name to match F1 City & State where firearm will be made (which is not necessarily the mailing address from the F1) ...and caliber, if it's not already on the receiver or barrel. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 1:16:16 PM EDT
[#2]
With my first AR SBR lower, I sent it out to be engraved when I sent my Form1 in. This time I waited until I received my approved Form1 back. Either way is fine but I was more paranoid this time because of all the pre 41F noise. Waiting until you get the approval back is the safest bet but that just means you have to wait another week or 2 to finish your build. Then again, what's 1-2 more weeks after waiting 6+ months for the approval?
Whatever you do, build the lower and test it with a non-SBR upper before submitting the paperwork. Nothing worse then spending $200 and waiting 6+ months only to find out there is a problem with the lower. As for dedicated 9mm lower vs standard lower with conversion block... If you already have multiple registered standard lowers then I might consider a dedicated 9mm lower but otherwise I'd stick with a standard lower so that way you have more options down the road should your needs or desires change. That said (and this is the part you probably won't like)... I have a 9mm AR/SBR and so far it runs like a top but if I was starting from scratch, I would skip building a 9mm SBR AR and just bought a Sig MPX pistol and registered that instead. 9mm AR's can be finicky but the MPX was designed from the ground up as a 9mm carbine. Its more expensive but I think its worth it and gives you options like a folding stock which you can't do with the AR version. Just my $.02 |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 1:46:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With my first AR SBR lower, I sent it out to be engraved when I sent my Form1 in. This time I waited until I received my approved Form1 back. Either way is fine but I was more paranoid this time because of all the pre 41F noise. Waiting until you get the approval back is the safest bet but that just means you have to wait another week or 2 to finish your build. Then again, what's 1-2 more weeks after waiting 6+ months for the approval? Whatever you do, build the lower and test it with a non-SBR upper before submitting the paperwork. Nothing worse then spending $200 and waiting 6+ months only to find out there is a problem with the lower. As for dedicated 9mm lower vs standard lower with conversion block... If you already have multiple registered standard lowers then I might consider a dedicated 9mm lower but otherwise I'd stick with a standard lower so that way you have more options down the road should your needs or desires change. That said (and this is the part you probably won't like)... I have a 9mm AR/SBR and so far it runs like a top but if I was starting from scratch, I would skip building a 9mm SBR AR and just bought a Sig MPX pistol and registered that instead. 9mm AR's can be finicky but the MPX was designed from the ground up as a 9mm carbine. Its more expensive but I think its worth it and gives you options like a folding stock which you can't do with the AR version. Just my $.02 No way in hell can I afford a MPX  This project will be a as I get the funds build
I have no other SBR's this would be the first. Also, if I register a regular lower can I register it as 9mm and 223?? Also, I will have it engraved when I buy lower. 9mm build will be built as pistol, and tested for function before I register, and add a stock when the stamp comes back. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 1:57:44 PM EDT
[#4]
I got my lower engraved the day I had my form 1 filled out, didn't see a need to make a second trip to Tarheel State Firerarms.... even though I'm going back tomorrow to do a form 4 for a can
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Posted: 2/1/2017 2:11:35 PM EDT
[#5]
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I got my lower engraved the day I had my form 1 filled out, didn't see a need to make a second trip to Tarheel State Firerarms.... even though I'm going back tomorrow to do a form 4 for a can Yeah, I'd send in the paper work when i start the build, but I don't know my dimensions yet, and I want to build it as a pistol and make sure it works before i drop my $200. that's my logic in having it engraved when i buy the lower, save a extra trip to my FFL, as he is 3hrs away!! |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 2:45:48 PM EDT
[#6]
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Also, if I register a regular lower can I register it as 9mm and 223?? No. You register it for the caliber and barrel/overall length that you'll initially make. That's a one time act, and that firearm can only be one caliber at the time it's made. How it's configured after that doesn't matter. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 2:52:15 PM EDT
[#7]
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No. You register it for the caliber and barrel/overall length that you'll initially make. That's a one time act, and that firearm can only be one caliber at the time it's made. How it's configured after that doesn't matter. So say for example I build a 9mm AR that has a 13" barrel and is 22" long. So i register it that and in 9mm, and if I want down the road I can switch stuff around and put a short 5.56 upper on it I can?? So when i look for a lower, should I try to find one with "multi" caliber marks or does it matter really? WOuld I need to put 9mm on my engraving? |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 3:12:23 PM EDT
[#8]
I agree with something other than 9mm....for now
If your going to pay the tax for a sbr, start with a "normal" lower, at least for the 1st one. Also if you build as a pistol first, you have many more options. You cant make a rifle into a pistol, but you can make a pistol onto a rifle, and go back to a pistol. From my last build going forward, all my builds will start as a pistol. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 3:38:49 PM EDT
[#9]
If you are using a local engraver no reason you can't engrave before or after getting approval of your Form 1.
However, if you are going to ship your lower to be engraved I would NOT ship a registered NFA lower, i.e., after approval. I wouldn't want to have to explain to the BATFE how my NFA registered lower got lost in shipping and is floating around out there somewhere out of my possession. Maybe I'm paranoid, but when you can get it engraved before approval I see no reason whatsoever to wait. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 3:42:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So say for example I build a 9mm AR that has a 13" barrel and is 22" long. So i register it that and in 9mm, and if I want down the road I can switch stuff around and put a short 5.56 upper on it I can?? So when i look for a lower, should I try to find one with "multi" caliber marks or does it matter really? WOuld I need to put 9mm on my engraving? Yes - if you file paperwork on 9mm SBR, and make that firearm, you can then get one or more uppers in other calibers and use them on that lower. You can NOT register a lower with "Multi", they make you pick the one caliber that you are saying you want to make into a SBR. Since my lower was marked "Multi", and the engraving on my barrel was not visible under the handguard, I had my engraver also engrave the caliber I was making. 
Have fun, Bob S. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 3:47:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are using a local engraver no reason you can't engrave before or after getting approval of your Form 1. However, if you are going to ship your lower to be engraved I would NOT ship a registered NFA lower, i.e., after approval. I wouldn't want to have to explain to the BATFE how my NFA registered lower got lost in shipping and is floating around out there somewhere out of my possession. Maybe I'm paranoid, but when you can get it engraved before approval I see no reason whatsoever to wait. I haven't decided who is engraving it yet, but what I am planning is gettin git engraved before I start the build, long before I even send in a form 1 on it. Just so I will have that part done and over with. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 3:48:33 PM EDT
[#12]
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I agree with something other than 9mm....for now If your going to pay the tax for a sbr, start with a "normal" lower, at least for the 1st one. Also if you build as a pistol first, you have many more options. You cant make a rifle into a pistol, but you can make a pistol onto a rifle, and go back to a pistol. From my last build going forward, all my builds will start as a pistol. That's what I'm gonna do, build it as a 9mm pistol first, play with and shoot it, till I register it, then just add a stock. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 3:49:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes - if you file paperwork on 9mm SBR, and make that firearm, you can then get one or more uppers in other calibers and use them on that lower. You can NOT register a lower with "Multi", they make you pick the one caliber that you are saying you want to make into a SBR. Since my lower was marked "Multi", and the engraving on my barrel was not visible under the handguard, I had my engraver also engrave the caliber I was making. http://people.virginia.edu/~rjs7m/NFA/Veritas-AR-3.JPG http://people.virginia.edu/~rjs7m/NFA/Veritas-AR-2.JPG Have fun, Bob S. So basically if my lower says 5.56 or Multi, I will have to have it engraved 9mm with my info if I register it as a 9mm correct? |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 3:56:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So basically if my lower says 5.56 or Multi, I will have to have it engraved 9mm with my info if I register it as a 9mm correct? if it says 5.56 register it as 5.56 to avoid having to engrave a second caliber... you can switch uppers all you want once the lowers registered. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 4:02:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if it says 5.56 register it as 5.56 to avoid having to engrave a second caliber... you can switch uppers all you want once the lowers registered. So even if I build it as a 9mm, register it as 5.56? The extra part that will say 9x19mm won't cost extra. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 4:33:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are using a local engraver no reason you can't engrave before or after getting approval of your Form 1. However, if you are going to ship your lower to be engraved I would NOT ship a registered NFA lower, i.e., after approval. I wouldn't want to have to explain to the BATFE how my NFA registered lower got lost in shipping and is floating around out there somewhere out of my possession. Maybe I'm paranoid, but when you can get it engraved before approval I see no reason whatsoever to wait. It is NOT an NFA item until you make it. This includes engraving it and slapping the upper on it. You go through the process to pay for tax and permission to manufacture. If it's lost after approval you just submit for a refund as the item was never made. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 4:35:36 PM EDT
[#17]
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So even if I build it as a 9mm, register it as 5.56? The extra part that will say 9x19mm won't cost extra. If the 5.56 is already on there might as well register it as 5.56 - doesn't matter as you can legally switch uppers/calibers all you want once it's registered. Personally, I wouldn't want a lower that has two different calibers engraved on it. Plus, your barrel is going to have 9x19mm engraved on it already for when you have that upper on there. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 4:35:57 PM EDT
[#18]
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So basically if my lower says 5.56 or Multi, I will have to have it engraved 9mm with my info if I register it as a 9mm correct? Not in every case. You don't have to engrave the lower if the barrel or other place has the caliber marking. Almost every barrel will have the caliber marked. You can apply for a stamp on a lower that is marked Multi but do not submit a stamp for multi as the caliber. You have to specify as others are telling you to do. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 4:39:02 PM EDT
[#19]
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It is NOT an NFA item until you make it. This includes engraving it and slapping the upper on it. You go through the process to pay for tax and permission to manufacture. If it's lost after approval you just submit for a refund as the item was never made. While that's true, after waiting 8-12 months for approval I'd hate to have to start the process completely over. To each their own - much easier to just get it engraved before and save the potential heartache and time lost. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 4:53:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the 5.56 is already on there might as well register it as 5.56 - doesn't matter as you can legally switch uppers/calibers all you want once it's registered. Personally, I wouldn't want a lower that has two different calibers engraved on it. Plus, your barrel is going to have 9x19mm engraved on it already for when you have that upper on there. ^This Plus if it is a manufactured firearm and the original manufacturer information does not match the information the ATF has on file it will be denied...There was a recent rule change to no longer accept "multi" so should your lower say multi only list the primary caliber you intend on using... Your form 1 manufacturer information should match the firearm you are using. Edited* |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 4:56:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
^This Plus if it is a manufactured firearm and the original manufacturer information does not match the information the ATF has on file it will be denied...That being said, if the manufacturer put Multi on the lower that is what I would submit it to the ATF as. Your form 1 manufacturer information should match the firearm you are using EXACTLY. the only time this would not apply is if you start with an 80% Got ya! Will register as 5.56 if so marked if marked multi will register as multi. They wont kick it for multi will they? I didnt relize the barrel mark counted as well. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 4:59:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Got ya! Will register as 5.56 if so marked if marked multi will register as 9mm. I didnt relize the barrel mark counted as well. Original post edited, if it only says multi use whatever caliber you intend on using.. marking will be on the barrel so no need to engrave the lower |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 5:02:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Original post edited, if it only says multi use whatever caliber you intend on using.. marking will be on the barrel so no need to engrave the lower Ok all good got it! |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 6:16:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Will register as 5.56 if so marked if marked multi will register as multi. They wont kick it for multi will they? I didnt relize the barrel mark counted as well. To clarify... You can register a lower marked "multi", you just can't list "multi" on the form as caliber. You submit whatever caliber you plan on making. For everything except the serial number, you can engrave on the frame, receiver, barrel or pistol slide (if applicable)...and there's no requirement for all the markings to be in the same location. So, maker's name and location on the lower and caliber on the barrel is perfectly acceptable. For a pretty clear explanation, you can read ATF Ruling 2013-3. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 7:14:01 PM EDT
[#25]
First, I don't understand the "safest" thing airgunner mentions. You can have anything you want engraved on anything you own. Engraving on a firearm doesn't even imply it's an NFA item. However, some folks think making sure the engraving is done right BEFORE submitting the Form 1 is important.
Caliber markings have to be there. I don't understand how some manufacturers still get away with marking lowers "MULTI," since even big manufacturers have to document new firearms (including lowers) with some caliber. Now if you register a lower that is manufacturer-marked "MULTI," you have to have a caliber marked on the final SBR. There's been a ton of back and forth on just how you have to do this, but a good bit of it has revolved around where the data can be. It does NOT have to be all on the lower. If your barrel is engraved with its caliber, that should be enough. I'm sure Big Waylon has that Big Thread of Caliber Marking Argument engraved in his memory. It was, shall we say, "lively."
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Posted: 2/1/2017 7:25:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Thanks all. SO as soon as I get the lower bought it will be sent out for engraving (anyone have a good place for a fair price, will save me a drive to my FFL 3hrs away) identmarking.com will do it for $55.
I will engrave it with my name, town, and WV no more no less. Caliber will be on barrel, rest should already be on lower. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 7:35:25 PM EDT
[#27]
I had mine engraved a few weeks ago. I used (cs223) here in the board. Link. 8 days door to door via USPS mail, including a holiday. It was $55 total, including shipping both ways. Small flare rate box to, $35 for the engraving and $12 shipping back.
Will be sending off the sbr paperwork by the end of April hopefully. I had my name, city, state and 5.56x45 engraved on the right side above the trigger pins. It will be a 5.56. I am waiting on a few more parts to complete the upper then will test it to be sure it works in that configuration before sending the paperwork off. |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 7:46:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had mine engraved a few weeks ago. I used (cs223) here in the board. Link. 8 days door to door via USPS mail, including a holiday. It was $55 total, including shipping both ways. Small flare rate box to, $35 for the engraving and $12 shipping back. Will be sending off the sbr paperwork by the end of April hopefully. I had my name, city, state and 5.56x45 engraved on the right side above the trigger pins. It will be a 5.56. I am waiting on a few more parts to complete the upper then will test it to be sure it works in that configuration before sending the paperwork off. May send him a IM. Do you know if he can do front of magwell, or under triggerguard? |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 8:17:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had mine engraved a few weeks ago. I used (cs223) here in the board. Link. 8 days door to door via USPS mail, including a holiday. It was $55 total, including shipping both ways. Small flare rate box to, $35 for the engraving and $12 shipping back. Will be sending off the sbr paperwork by the end of April hopefully. I had my name, city, state and 5.56x45 engraved on the right side above the trigger pins. It will be a 5.56. I am waiting on a few more parts to complete the upper then will test it to be sure it works in that configuration before sending the paperwork off. Why not print a USPS label to return ship and save another few $$? |
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Posted: 2/1/2017 8:40:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks all. SO as soon as I get the lower bought it will be sent out for engraving (anyone have a good place for a fair price, will save me a drive to my FFL 3hrs away) identmarking.com will do it for $55. I will engrave it with my name, town, and WV no more no less. Caliber will be on barrel, rest should already be on lower. There are several places recommended by many people here. I've used Ident, CS223, and some local trophy/engraving shops. Others used Veritas, Orion, and who knows where else. When all is said and done, it's hard to beat the combination of price, quality and speed of THSF. ...and remember, if you ever end up with a barrel that doesn't have visible markings, just do it yourself on the underside with a Dremel. Only requirement is a minimum .003" depth. Put it right next to the muzzle device, or right as if exits the handguard. Nobody will every notice it, but you'll meet the requirement if it ever gets inspected. I only build dedicated SBRs, so no swapping uppers. The one build I have where I lost the barrel markings when cutting down the barrel was "fixed" by using a Dremel between the pivot pin ears. Nobody will ever notice, but it meets the regulations. Completely visible when assembled...if you look for it. 
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Posted: 2/1/2017 8:59:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Yeah just found tar heel, price is best by far and they do under trigger area. Probaly be where the lower goes when i buy it.
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Posted: 2/1/2017 9:23:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not print a USPS label to return ship and save another few $? I don't have a printer, did not think about printing out a label. Besides, I'm building an SBR, $5 ain't going to kill me. |
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Posted: 2/2/2017 10:49:39 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah just found tar heel, price is best by far and they do under trigger area. Probaly be where the lower goes when i buy it. I used Tarheel for my two SBRs (one a dedicated 9mm) and they were very fast turn around. I think most of the recommended engravers are pretty quick though, so certainly not taking anything away from them. I had them mark the caliber on the lowers for simplicity. I just had my trust info put on the right side magwell. It's not like I'm reducing the resale value of the CMMG lower, it's small and barely visible anyway and really if there's some reason someone sees it, it's probably to my benefit. If I was doing a more "multicaliber" setup, I'd probably put caliber on the upper since my barrel markings are not visible at all. Heck, for 300blackout it's probably a good idea to have big lettering announcing it to minimize chances of mixing bullets. |
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Posted: 2/2/2017 2:25:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Why even mess with engraving unless you plan on selling it at some point?
I'm not going to engrave any of my SBRs as I don't plan on selling them... |
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Posted: 2/2/2017 3:33:23 PM EDT
[#35]
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Why even mess with engraving unless you plan on selling it at some point? I'm not going to engrave any of my SBRs as I don't plan on selling them... Because that's not what the regulations say. There's a bogus article (or two) on the net, all by TTAG, that say otherwise...but they're worth what you paid for them. |
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Posted: 2/2/2017 4:03:18 PM EDT
[#36]
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Because that's not what the regulations say. There's a bogus article (or two) on the net, all by TTAG, that say otherwise...but they're worth what you paid for them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why even mess with engraving unless you plan on selling it at some point? I'm not going to engrave any of my SBRs as I don't plan on selling them... Because that's not what the regulations say. There's a bogus article (or two) on the net, all by TTAG, that say otherwise...but they're worth what you paid for them. Yeah, I've seen that article before. Thought that I had heard that from other sources also. |
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Posted: 2/2/2017 5:52:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Well, my 9mm SBR build has officially started, just ordered this upper from PSA
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Posted: 2/2/2017 5:53:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why even mess with engraving unless you plan on selling it at some point? I'm not going to engrave any of my SBRs as I don't plan on selling them... There is an SOT dealer in Oregon who engraves only after the item is sold AND approved. I still engrave mine to cover myself and because I like my name
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Posted: 2/3/2017 2:03:41 PM EDT
[#39]
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I don't understand how some manufacturers still get away with marking lowers "MULTI," since even big manufacturers have to document new firearms (including lowers) with some caliber. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't understand how some manufacturers still get away with marking lowers "MULTI," since even big manufacturers have to document new firearms (including lowers) with some caliber. Lowers, do not have to have a caliber marking. You answered your own question below: Quoted:
It does NOT have to be all on the lower. If your barrel is engraved with its caliber, that should be enough. |
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Posted: 2/3/2017 5:58:47 PM EDT
[#40]
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So say for example I build a 9mm AR that has a 13" barrel and is 22" long. So i register it that and in 9mm, and if I want down the road I can switch stuff around and put a short 5.56 upper on it I can?? Correct Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No. You register it for the caliber and barrel/overall length that you'll initially make. That's a one time act, and that firearm can only be one caliber at the time it's made. How it's configured after that doesn't matter. So say for example I build a 9mm AR that has a 13" barrel and is 22" long. So i register it that and in 9mm, and if I want down the road I can switch stuff around and put a short 5.56 upper on it I can?? Correct |
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Posted: 2/3/2017 8:54:28 PM EDT
[#41]
question I built my sbr with multi cal lower reregistered as 556 did not engrave cal on lower because its on the barrel.
so if I put a 300 blk upper on it and it is marked on the barrel it wont match my form 1 is that ok or do I need to engrave the lower with 556 |
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Posted: 2/3/2017 8:57:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
question I built my sbr with multi cal lower reregistered as 556 did not engrave cal on lower because its on the barrel. so if I put a 300 blk upper on it and it is marked on the barrel it wont match my form 1 is that ok or do I need to engrave the lower with 556 It's fine. The Form is for the initial making, and when you made that firearm it was marked with the appropriate caliber. It's not a 5.56 with a 300BLK upper attached, so there's no reason for it to be marked with 5.56. |
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Posted: 2/3/2017 9:07:01 PM EDT
[#43]
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It's fine. The Form is for the initial making, and when you made that firearm it was marked with the appropriate caliber. It's not a 5.56 with a 300BLK upper attached, so there's no reason for it to be marked with 5.56. thanks. |
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Posted: 2/3/2017 9:54:41 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lowers, do not have to have a caliber marking. You answered your own question below: Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't understand how some manufacturers still get away with marking lowers "MULTI," since even big manufacturers have to document new firearms (including lowers) with some caliber. Lowers, do not have to have a caliber marking. You answered your own question below: Quoted:
It does NOT have to be all on the lower. If your barrel is engraved with its caliber, that should be enough. |
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Posted: 2/3/2017 10:01:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there a separate regulation that says "firearms that are 'other,' such as stripped lower receivers, do not need a caliber marking."? Yes but not in that manner. The law says rifles need markings. Since a stripped lower is not a rifle, that law does not apply. |
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Posted: 2/4/2017 11:26:45 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes but not in that manner. The law says rifles need markings. Since a stripped lower is not a rifle, that law does not apply. That would make sense. Probably why I never thought of that...an ATF rule that makes sense!
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