I am sure most of you all are familiar with the Hearing Protection Act, and the fact that the bill and a companion bill were reintroduced in the new Congress. Prospects look very good for passage, which, in short, would remove suppressors from NFA jurisdiction. While not definite, passage may make suppressors legal throughout the country as well.

What does this have to do with SBRs? Well, imo, it makes a 5.56 SBR or longer almost obsolete. Right now there is one 5.56 suppressor made (Griffon Spartan) that is already drilled for pinning and welding and which would make any rifle over 10.5" longer than 16".

I'm sure suppressor manufacturers would quickly bring ready to pin and weld suppressors in different calibers to market as well. Maybe 22/rimfire, 6.8 and or 30 cal....

Thoughts?

JPK

Couldn't disagree more. Kevin B was quoted in TTAG article about how silencers shouldn't be a tacked-on afterthought, and maybe intergral will be the way of the future, but the ability to have several cans and put them on whatever I want is great. Also, with the use of pistol braces, I don't see pinning a 7" can onto my 10" barrel to avoid a $200 SBR stamp as a realistic solution. The pistol-->SBR route is too easy.

I don't see HPA causing this overnight market-crash on silencer pricing. If and when it passes, it will take awhile for volume to increase, and distributor and dealer pricing to come down. The cans that dealers have in their stores now, were bought for $XXX, they aren't going to sell them all at a loss because they don't have to do paperwork. They still need to make a profit, as do the distributors, and aside from a few of the big players, I think it will be like the lead-up to 41F where they're making suppressors like crazy, and we the consumers are hit with no after-sale support.

I would definitely jump on a P&W suppressor/10.5" combo but it would not prevent me from SBRing lowers.

Non-AR weapons are an entirely separate conversation as well. A $300 PSA upper and $300 can is one thing but when you're talking HKs, Sigs, SCARs, I'd be hesitant

Integrals are interesting to consider as well

I wouldn't entertain the thought of pinning a suppressor except for a design similar to the Griffin Alpha where the baffle stack could come out of the front for service/cleaning but at that point integral may be the way to go. Another thought that I never see get brought up is what about the used suppressor market? With no tax stamp will it be treated like selling a firearm? This should make selling a used can much more feasible since it will knock off $400 in stamps.

I am hoping so. No more "stuck with it for life"

You bring up a separate and good point re non-AR weapons.

At this point, I believe I have enough SBR lowers, and that is because I don't find swapping uppers an issue.

I haven't been caught not being able to take an SBR hunting or shooting in another state yet because I've gotten my 5320.20s back in time, but the lead time is nearly a month and the pin and weld option has its attraction in helping prevent that. Saving a couple of hundred bucks doesn't hurt, and pays for the pin and weld. In addition, if SBRs are illegal in a state, but suppressors are nationally legal every state would be accessible with a 16"+ P&W. A minor point (for me anyway) that I have encountered is ranges that prohibit NFA items. P&W non SBR and HPA passed = no issue.

In response to Gopherboy, a P&W suppressor to make what would otherwise be an SBR isn't necessarily an after thought. Certainly no more than muzzle device, hand guard or gas block.

ETA: Fwiw, another configuration that appeals to me more lately, because of the 5320.20 issue, is a couple of 14.5" uppers with a QD muzzle device pinned and welded. I live in MD, and within an hour and a half can be in four other states.

JPK

Except that a gas block and handguard are required for function.

I get that a pinned & welded can gets you around a 5320.20 for hunting out of state, and with the number of states allowing hunting with suppressors ever-growing, I can see the appeal of that.

However, back to your original statement, I don't see thae HPA making SBRs obsolete. I think the Sig brace and competing models of pistol brace did more to make them obsoletr than the HPA will.

A handguard sure is nice to have, but an AR functions just fine without one... kinda like a suppressor. On gas blocks, how many threads to we see regarding over gassed rifles?

The ability to swap suppressors around is something I wouldn't want to loose in every case, but the goal is one host : one suppressor.

The pistol/brace set up does nothing for me. I won't shoulder one in violation of the law, and that is really their point. If the ATF would use common sense suppressors would never have been under NFA jurisdiction since they are not firearms, and "pistol braces" designed to be shouldered would not render a carbine a pistol.

Only one suppressor per host? Hope you dont have an accident. Much rather have back ups. And heaven forbid you shoulder a pistol brace... you can see what you want but in all the gun groups and FB posts I visit, I see majority skipping SBR stamp and going with a brace. You want to pin cans on your rifle go ahead, but HPA won't hurt SBRs

Pinned and welded cans? No thanks. Hell, I've spent a lot of time and money just to eliminate pinned and welded muzzle devices, no way I'm doing that with a silencer.

Isn't 1:1 the natural ratio? You start with a 16" AR, try some other lengths and cartridges. Eventually decide to purchase a suppressor... and then realize  you do not want to ever shoot unsuppressed again.... you get away with that for awhile by using one suppressor on different carbines or rifles using a QD MD.... begin adding more suppressors until you have one for every carbine or rifle.... decide to try a different upper combination, or whole rifle set up... and then realize you need another suppressor for that new one.....

Or already well into the fun, you find a suppressor you really like, but pretty much everything you own is suppressed.... and decide to build another upper or carbine just for the new suppressor?

I realize that some people will commit a felony when they are reasonably sure they won't get caught, I am not one of those.

I am at the point now where cans:hosts is getting to be 2:1, new designs come out, I don't want to have to unpin a can and risk damaging it, just to try a different suppressor that has to be pinned/welded to remain legal.

I'm not saying your idea is bad, I just disagree with your original statement that "HPA passing makes 5.56 SBR or longer almost obsolete."

I think if you polled the Silencer forum, most silencer owners there would not pin/weld a suppressor to a short barrel 5.56 to avoid a tax-stamp. Again, in my opinion, the AR pistol market, and other platforms with braces, are too functional and I believe most owners will use it in pistol form until SBR stamp arrives, then engrave and put a stock on it. I believe Sig Brace & friends have done more to make 5.56 SBRs obsolete.

Hmm, knowing my own inclinations, I believe that if I had a "spare" suppressor, I would be planning my next carbine or upper, which is why, at least for me, 1:1 is the natural ratio.

It's not saving $200 on a stamp so much as completely avoiding any NFA issues with a P&W ~10.5" upper, especially of HPA makes suppressors legal in every state through federal preemption. No wait, no restrictions, no 5320.20s, as well as no $200 stamp, which takes care of P&W costs and some.

My son, a bud and I just got back from a GA night time thermal hog hunt and we used my SBRs, thermal scopes and suppressors. The planning and paperwork involved, the paperwork I had to bring along in compliance with NFA/ATF regs, and the pending HPA is what got me thinking about P&W ~10.5" suppressed uppers. We had a tight time frame so we drove straight through, and travel through is protected by the FPA of 1986 (right cite, iirc,) but if we were going to stop and spend a night coming or going it would be limited to only states which permit relatively unrestricted suppressor and SBR possession.

Or, another example where HPA and a P&W suppressed upper would be great is for that period when my son can be in possession of one of my rifles, but no NFA items. That ends when he is 21 and can be a RP under NFA, but not until then.

Take HPA out of the picture and I agree that P&W a short upper vs just going SBR with a lower is not a great idea.

JPK

I see just the opposite...

I see a tax free can someplace and I see the saved $200 going to a sbr tax...

Hmm, we have members from Colorado, Fla, and three from WA generally disagreeing with me, with our Colorado member writing he would do one P&W if HPA passes.

I wonder if the general disagreement is because all of you all are from relatively large states, where interstate travel, and so Form 5320.20 (ATF application to travel interstate with NFA items, here SBRs) is less of an issue than where I live?

I can be in a different state or D.C. within a few minutes, and in an additional three state within about 1:15.

JPK

I can be in Oregon in 5 minutes. I understand your statement that filing a 5320.20 to go hunting is an inconvenience and by pinning and welding a suppressor to your SBR, you're removing that hurdle. But I don't see that being frequent enough to support the claim that HPA makes 5.56 SBRs and longer obsolete.

For me, interstate travel to hunt is pretty frequent, but usually with enough lead time to get 5320.20s filed. There have been a few times when I have had to scramble to get a thermal mounted and zero'd on a 16" or pass on the hunt opportunity though. Recently I have kept a 16" 5.56 set up for NV in case of a quick opportunity.

I originally wrote, " almost obsolete." Clearly, even with the " almost" qualifier, and as you all's posts make clear, I am wrong.

But if HPA passes I'll P&W a pair of 10.5" 5.56s, one for me and one for my son.

JPK

What I could see would be for riifle manufactures to sell an assembled rifle, with a fixed suppressor and a sub 16" barrel.  Rifle cans don't need to be taken off for maintenance, and one of the main reasons for SBRing a rifle is to be able to use it with a can without it looking like a flintlock.

Ruger already makes an AR, and a can for the .22.  They could just make a 10.5 inch AR, and either install their own can, or parnter with someone else and install those.  You'd have a rifle, legal in all free states, with a 16" barreled assembly and a supressor - cash and carry after HPA is passed.  Pretty cool.

Sig tried to pin a monocore to a barrel as a "muzzle brake" and sell a registered tube that went over it, via NFA process. I guess that got shot down, but if HPA passes I could see it.

I think it will have an impact.  You might still have one 5.56 SBR, but you probably won't have 3 or 4 SBR lowers like a lot of people on this board.

What it will really do is crush the market of SBRing pistol calibler carbines.   Maybe not so much as pinned, but you will see a ton of integrals.  SBR'ing something like a 10/22 may disappear completely.

If HPA passes stamp times will drop back down to what they used to be making SBRs a 30 day affair... of course now that braces are a thing I really see no point, especially in my state where I cant have a loaded rifle in the vehicle.

Permanently attached supressors create more problems than they solve.

Cleaning would be very difficult with your can permanently attached, and if you got your cleaning patch stuck there would be no good way to dislodge it.

If your can needs maintenance, what do you plan on doing? Send the whole upper to Adco and have the suppressor removed (and possibly damaged in the process), then back again after the suppressor is repaired for re-pinning.

I will stick with my SBR's

There was a company I heard about that was doing welded suppressor shrouds. A suppressor would fit inside of it, but it kept the barrel length technicallly at 16"+.

ETA: Found it, but it's quite pricey -
http://midstatefirearms.com/BMS-300Blk-Upper-105-welded-Suppressor-Shroud-Legal-16-bms30.htm