Probably not the first to ask but if you are going to purchase a barrel and FH to make a legal length barrel how do you avoid getting reamed for having the parts until you assemble them? Or maybe you know a gunsmith who can receive the parts and weld/pin them before you receive them.  And does anyone know a FH to add to a 12.5 in Stainless steel that makes it legal length?  Thanks, just trying to get my head wrapped around all this.

if you're not going to sbr why in the hell would you want a short barrel with a long flash hider?  That has no advantage over a standard 16".
it's an unassembled barrel so I don't think you'll get in trouble.  If that bothers you than have the seller ship it to whoever you will have pin and weld the flash on for you.
personally I think you're wasting money, I'd rather just get a 16" barrel.

Thanks for your input and opinion. This is how I am looking at it.  I want a 12.5 inch micomoa barrel because of the reviews and having shot one a friend has and they are really accurate barrels. I don't want any restriction on when, where, why and how every time I cross a state line or take a dump with my rifle. Also on a more preparedness note, I want to be able to take a hacksaw to my 5 inch flash hider if things turn into downtown Syria here. So while a 16 inch is great, and I respect your opinion, I have mine also.  Now if I were an AR15 guru and someone had a different opinion, even if I disagreed with it I would try to help.  So thanks for the help, not ranting, just explaining my logic.

BE Meyers and KX5/3 are about longest decent flash hiders/comps out there and on a 13.7 inch barrel pin to just over 16" to make it a non NFA gun. doesn't help you much since you are wanting a 12.5 but that's about as close as you can get until you start to get into stamp/pistol territory and hard pressed to find an over 4 inch flash hider (allowing for thread depth on barrel)

I would consider a 13.7" barrel pinned to legal length.

Hey thanks for the reply.  I was just talking to someone on options for a non stainless flash hider pinning.  He suggested JB weld and pinning. I kinda dislike that but it definitely would be permanent.  My luck I would probably end up with the stuff all in the barrel.  But I haven't given up hope. I may just get a local machine shop to turn one out to my specs. That way the length would be no problem, and if it works out great maybe start turning them out for hard heads like myself. Thanks again. Brainstorming takes more than one brain, and sometimes they disagree but shed a little light on another solution.

You may want to read the BATFE rules about what is considered permanently attached. I do not think JB Weld is an approved method. Pin and weld or silver solder is what I believe to be the only accepted methods.

 

Oh yikes, ok. Well at least I'm learning a thing or two.  I had heard this forum was a great place to pick up help.  I do appreciate all input, even the less palatable ones.  Like I say, there is a little bit of light in everything you hear, just put them altogether and there is enough light to see well. Thanks again.

Look into the ATF Form 1 process for a real SBR. Politics aside, it does take time (currently 4 months with eFile and trust) and money ($200 + trust cost*) but it's not that bad.  Check the sbr forum in the Armory area for info/guidance.  Besides, you get to use that MicroMOA barrel as it's intended.  Besides #2, you can't attach a suppressor to a silly 4" flash hider

* You may even avoid the trust if local LEO will sign the paperwork

You're repeating some misconceptions about NFA items and SBRs.

If you're worried about crossing state lines, you can always have a 16" upper in addition to the 12.5". When you think you may be crossing state lines, leave the 12.5" upper in the safe, slap on the 16" upper, and like that no 5320.20 is required.

As for a 12.5" barrel, you're gonna have a hard time finding a functional 4" flash hider to make that legal length.

There are 3 approved methods I know for permanently attaching a FH: silver solder, blind pin and weld, weld around the circumference of the FH

Why not just get the same barrel in a 14.5, I did.

Another option is just to make it a pistol.  12.5" barrel and everything but a stock on it.  No extended flash hider needed.



Personally I pay the $200 tax and add a stock, but you can get very similar performance from an AR pistol.

First of all thanks to everyone for their input. I am starting to see just how frustrating this whole thing can be. I'm seriously considering a lot of options. So keep em coming I haven't give up yet.  As for the SBR stamp route... I just ain't feelin it.  Great that so many are happy with it though.  As it looks now I probably will be having a Compensator machined from 416 stainless that meets my requirements.  I figure copying the basic measurements of a popular model, making some minor adjustments to port and length. Don't care anything about the super swoopy spiral dragon ninja port cuts or the buzz saw terminal end, just something that does the job. It's out there I just haven't found it. I probably will after I have one made I'm sure.

Your giving up 2 good inches of velocity without loosing length.  You would be better off buying the 14.5 and having it pinned with a more conventional flash hider.  It's not like the 14.5 is going to be less accurate or less controllable than a 12.5.

Or just get the 16" version and be done with it. No pin, no weld. Flash hider of choice and go.



ETA: Not to hijack, but I'm trying to decide between a 12.5" and a 14.5" version for an SBR that will be run with a 7" can nearly all the time.  Precision rig. Will those two inches be noticeable or even worthwhile?

Yes on the noticeable.
Shit even going from 16" to 14.5" is a noticeable length difference.

If I was you, I'd get a 12.5", an adjustable gasblock, and the 7" can.

14.5 micromoa barrel with pinned Griffin M4SD I couldn't be happier. I think your over thinking this thing

Thank you.  That's where I'm going.

Personally, I'd go 14.5 and have my muzzle device of choice pinned and welded on.  Two inches is not a lot and you avoid a ton of head aches.  If you have a super hard on for a 12.5 as a SHTF weapon, you could get a 14.5 set up as a rifle and work on a 12.5 pistol.  Two pins is a lot easier than a hack saw if you ever decide to go through the SBR process.

Eta:  I know you said you're not interested in the NFA process, but let me say that if there was one thing I wish I had done different when it comes to guns, it would be waiting so long to start SBRing stuff.

Same here. I wish I went SBR to start with but my first was 18 then 16 then 14.5 with pinned muzzle. Well all those have been sold. Now I have 11.5 in 5.56 and 10.2 in 300blk and a suppressor for each and they are finally perfect.

It is really not hard to fill out paperwork for traveling around to other states either. Takes about 2-4 weeks to come back and is good for a year.

I agree. 14.5" on an SBR lower

Alot of good comments in here.  If money is no object, and you don't want to have real fun and go nfa. AR's are dirt cheap to build right now build a pistol first with a 12.5". Then build a 14.5" pinned rifle. If SHTF then swap uppers.  I would recommend pinning a FH or muzzle brake that can mount a suppressor, but if your heart is set on non nfa get a BE myers in either 13.7" or 14.5" pinned...  

The nfa can sound "scary", but that is what the gov wants you to think.  If you enjoy doing research which it sounds like you do then this site will help with the first nfa items then the next ones are easy.  You just have to be able to wait for those stamps to roll in.

I don't buy 16" anymore. I go 18"-20", then 14.5", then sbr. And I have 12.5", 10.5', 7.5" in 5.56, and 10.5", 8.5" in 300 BLK.  12.5" is a great choice for sbr/pistol. And micromoa is also a great choice.  I would recommend the mid length's barrels and a govnah gas block, if you go nfa with a suppressor. If you want to keep it light SLR adjustable gas block.  If you ever do want a suppressor I would recommend silencerco.

Other comments that they regret waiting as long as they did to go nfa are very true.  I love and greatly enjoy shooting, but I love it even more with my sbr's, and running quiet as much as I possible can.

Either way you go good luck and enjoy.

Good post!

Thanks goloud.

Another few points to think about.  Do you currently travel with your firearms across state lines alot, and not just once every few years if that? Also what type of scenarios are you wanting this firearm to perform if SHTF?  If SHTF and the powers to be are restored you now have a 12.5" barreled rifle with no tax stamp and a pinned on stub of metal that was hacksawed off and would quickly need to be disposed of.... Also once cut the muzzle device goes from functional to just added weight.  And a 14.5" or 13.7" can always be shortened to 12.5"  

If for cqb, have you ever fired a 5.56 short barrel indoors without hearing protection? I personally would not want to be in a SHTF scenario without a suppressor.  And for home self defense and having family close by with only sheet rock between them and an unwelcome guest I would use somthing even more compact with less velocity, and more energy, and less disorienting concussion and hearing loss.

For a Red Dawn type scenario the pinned 14.5" would be fine or better yet a 12.5-14.5" with suppressor sbr.  

Also will you be keeping the rifle and hacksaw together with you at all times, so that when the SHTF you can take 5 min. to cut the end of your rifle off? And I'm not making fun.

If SHTF never happens then you have 12.5" that has the length of a 16" with 0 extra benefits, but multiple downfalls being less velocity, barrel is the same price as 13.7", 14.5", 16" , custom muzzle device that will cost $100-$200.  And also must be pinned $50-$100 and cost more if you ever want to change the configuration. Or about the cost of a sbr tax stamp.

Again not making fun, its good to think outside the box. But with the laws the way they are, and the pros and cons in my opinion are not favorable for what you are wanting to do.  But that just me.  Hope that helps.

Another great post.

It's my understanding that even if you slap a 16" upper on that SBR lower you still gotta file paperwork for border crossing. It's still a registered SBR with a 7.5" or 16" upper.

At this point....

Nope, once the 16" upper is on the registered lower it no longer meets nfa description/requirements, and therefore does not fall under the nfa law. It can also be sold this way without a tax stamp since it would be a title 1 firearm.  But don't take my word for it, this is covered on the atf website...

It says you can put a longer barrel on it and return it to a SBR with no paperwork but it didn't say you could do that out of state.

It does say if you take the upper off and retain what's needed to return it to a SBR, the firearm(i.e. lower) still falls under the NFA laws. So unless you plan on getting rid of your SBR upper, the lower still falls under all NFA laws. It's covered on the atf website.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/if-i-remove-short-barrel-my-sbr-or-sbs-may-i-move-firearm-across-state-lines-without

On the sale item it has to be a stripped lower, not a fully assembled one. Fully assembled is still a SBR.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/i-possess-properly-registered-sbr-or-sbs-i-intend-strip-receiver-and-remove-barrel-prior

You might be trying to read between the lines.  If you are talking about slapping a 16" upper on, but taking the sbr upper with you (aka retaining control over) and cross state lines, that is a no no, or maybe even a grey area.  But if you leave the sbr upper at home (aka not in your possession, therefore not in your control) and take a sbr lower with a 16" upper installed across state lines, you have in you possession a title 1 firearm, period.  Not what it could be, can be, was, is going back too, etc... If you get pulled over and the law runs the serial number and sees that it is registered as an sbr, it does not matter because it is not an sbr at that time. Will that person (the law) be stupid and call in the atf, arrest you, etc.. Sure that could happen.  But they wouldn't have a case, and the atf would set them straight pretty quick.  Don't believe me, thats fine write the atf a letter, I am sure what they will say.  .

On the sale part like I said if it is configured as a title 1 firearm, 16" or longer upper or no upper at all it can be sold no tax stamp required.  Sell it with the sbr upper it is an sbr and falls under the nfa laws, and would require a tax stamp for the new owner.   It has to be an sbr to be an sbr. If it doesn't fit the sbr definition its not an sbr.

Copy that. I saw an excert from a letter on this post specifically on this post.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_50/442147_.html

Just picked up my fluted MicroMOA barrel and Govnah combo. Looking forward to putting it through its paces.

OK I found a way around all of this 12.5 yada yada, but it's going to take some research so I figured I would just go ahead and start a build within the gov. parameters.  So here is what I'm doing in the mean time. Aero Precision upper and BCG, Black Hole Weaponry M4 profile polygonal rifled 1 in 8 twist 16 inch barrel, BTE rail height railed adjustable gas block, BCM charging handle, and a Strike J-comp. This should all be in within the next week or two as all was in stock. A few more shinies to get to finish her off with my PSA lower, but at least it's a start.  Really read good things about Black Hole and anxious to try it out.  Not in a hurry to throw it together as I'm kinda prone to being anal assembling things. Guess it's a hold over from motorcycle road racing where one little detail gets you killed. I would ( I would have said I do, but every time I did that I ended up buying a woman a house) like to thank everyone for the kind, not so kind, informative, semi combative at times replies. I gleaned a little something off of most all of them.