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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:27:35 PM EDT
[#1]
It's pretty much all been said...
For my use, the SBR's I have reduce the weight (since I'm required to have a light and a sling) and it allows them to be maneuverable inside of a vehicle, of necessary, inside tight spaces or small homes/buildings, etc. the loss in velocity isn't a hot against the platform (10.3" or my 11.5"-ers) because for these rifles I won't be engaging even out to 50yrds in real use...for classes or courses, sure, they'll reach out and touch paper or steel but the lack of velocity on those doesn't matter...inside of 50yrds it still has plenty of oomph. I also want to suppress my rifles and my suppressed, fully kitted rifles weighs about the same as a stock 16" AR (keeping in mind I at least need the light and sling but this would exclude a suppressor). |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:47:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Correct. If I wanted a 300-400fps drop in velocity and .22 Hornet performance, I'd go with .22 Hornet instead of .223. Winchester Q3131 still gives 3k fps from a 12.5 barrel, which is what some people report from .223 ammo... http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=382876 http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=20&t=111194 I don't think it's something to sneeze at. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 10:18:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Because 16" is an arbitrary, BS, .gov designated length.
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Posted: 10/26/2014 2:22:51 PM EDT
[#4]
it's also the length the NAZIS chose for the MP44....and if the NAZIS like it, it must be bad!
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Posted: 10/27/2014 8:02:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Add a silencer and you will quickly want a shorter package.
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Posted: 10/28/2014 12:13:57 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Always wanted a 6933,glad I have one now
How much? |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 6:35:26 PM EDT
[#7]
got it for about 950 from Clydes
Stamp wait was 4 I/2 months |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 11:11:05 PM EDT
[#8]
10.5 with can is shorter than a 16" standard carbine and weight is almost the same. And I have wanted a mk18 for 10 years.
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Posted: 11/9/2014 8:29:59 PM EDT
[#9]
All of the above...
PLUS..... Chicks dig Short Barrels! I crack myself up sometimes.... 
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Posted: 11/9/2014 9:22:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because 16" is an arbitrary, BS, .gov designated length. It's not as arbitrary as you think. The NFA originally had 18" as the minimum bbl length for rifles and shotguns..........and then along came thousands of military surplus M1 Carbines. Regs were changed to allow the sale of those carbines. The NFA was originally designed to prohibit all concealable firearms (including handguns) and the 18" BBl/26" OAL standard encompassed nearly all rifles and shotguns as they came from the manufacturers at the time. Handguns were removed from the final bill, so that's why we are stuck with tax stamps. |
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Posted: 11/9/2014 11:34:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not as arbitrary as you think. The NFA originally had 18" as the minimum bbl length for rifles and shotguns..........and then along came thousands of military surplus M1 Carbines. Regs were changed to allow the sale of those carbines. The NFA was originally designed to prohibit all concealable firearms (including handguns) and the 18" BBl/26" OAL standard encompassed nearly all rifles and shotguns as they came from the manufacturers at the time. Handguns were removed from the final bill, so that's why we are stuck with tax stamps. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Because 16" is an arbitrary, BS, .gov designated length. It's not as arbitrary as you think. The NFA originally had 18" as the minimum bbl length for rifles and shotguns..........and then along came thousands of military surplus M1 Carbines. Regs were changed to allow the sale of those carbines. The NFA was originally designed to prohibit all concealable firearms (including handguns) and the 18" BBl/26" OAL standard encompassed nearly all rifles and shotguns as they came from the manufacturers at the time. Handguns were removed from the final bill, so that's why we are stuck with tax stamps. The 16" barrel requirement because of the M-1 carbine is a myth. The barrel of the M-1 carbine is already 18" |
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Posted: 11/10/2014 7:13:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 16" barrel requirement because of the M-1 carbine is a myth. The barrel of the M-1 carbine is already 18" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because 16" is an arbitrary, BS, .gov designated length. It's not as arbitrary as you think. The NFA originally had 18" as the minimum bbl length for rifles and shotguns..........and then along came thousands of military surplus M1 Carbines. Regs were changed to allow the sale of those carbines. The NFA was originally designed to prohibit all concealable firearms (including handguns) and the 18" BBl/26" OAL standard encompassed nearly all rifles and shotguns as they came from the manufacturers at the time. Handguns were removed from the final bill, so that's why we are stuck with tax stamps. The 16" barrel requirement because of the M-1 carbine is a myth. The barrel of the M-1 carbine is already 18" No, the M-1 carbine has a nominal barrel length of 18". Wartime production by everybody and their mother produced thousands of carbines with barrels fractions of an inch shorter than 18". Nobody cared until after surplus carbines were sold to civilians, and it was noticed than many M-1 carbines had factory produced barrels shorter than 18". Since it was unknown exactly which carbines had barrels shorter than 18", and the government had sold them to its citizens, turning them into felons, the easiest solution was to change the barrel length minimum in the NFA. |
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Posted: 11/10/2014 8:05:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, the M-1 carbine has a nominal barrel length of 18". Wartime production by everybody and their mother produced thousands of carbines with barrels fractions of an inch shorter than 18". Nobody cared until after surplus carbines were sold to civilians, and it was noticed than many M-1 carbines had factory produced barrels shorter than 18". Since it was unknown exactly which carbines had barrels shorter than 18", and the government had sold them to its citizens, turning them into felons, the easiest solution was to change the barrel length minimum in the NFA. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because 16" is an arbitrary, BS, .gov designated length. It's not as arbitrary as you think. The NFA originally had 18" as the minimum bbl length for rifles and shotguns..........and then along came thousands of military surplus M1 Carbines. Regs were changed to allow the sale of those carbines. The NFA was originally designed to prohibit all concealable firearms (including handguns) and the 18" BBl/26" OAL standard encompassed nearly all rifles and shotguns as they came from the manufacturers at the time. Handguns were removed from the final bill, so that's why we are stuck with tax stamps. The 16" barrel requirement because of the M-1 carbine is a myth. The barrel of the M-1 carbine is already 18" No, the M-1 carbine has a nominal barrel length of 18". Wartime production by everybody and their mother produced thousands of carbines with barrels fractions of an inch shorter than 18". Nobody cared until after surplus carbines were sold to civilians, and it was noticed than many M-1 carbines had factory produced barrels shorter than 18". Since it was unknown exactly which carbines had barrels shorter than 18", and the government had sold them to its citizens, turning them into felons, the easiest solution was to change the barrel length minimum in the NFA. Links to reliable sources or documentation? |
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Posted: 11/11/2014 2:18:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Links to reliable sources or documentation? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
snip Links to reliable sources or documentation? |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 1:13:16 AM EDT
[#15]
According to wikipedia, and this, first it was for rimfire rifles (pre-1960) then centerfire rifles came later (1960)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act#cite_ref-Appropriations1998_7-0 http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1357583_1960_amendments_to_the_NFA.html Looks like the m1-carbine thing is *partially* true, see pdf in 2nd link. It, the swedish M94, and the M1873 winchester are specifically mentioned as being between 16-18 inches and not a gangster element gun. I find it also funny in the pdf they are wrangling over the definition of an "AOW". Guess people knew it was shittly written for a very long time. |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 6:05:00 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Compactness for CQC, vehicle borne ops, sometimes easier to carry & lighter, etc. Many shooters, including myself, just don't like long barrels. Arcane barrel length restrictions from the 1930's is just stupid. Pretty much spot on. For me it makes way more sense than a long barrel gun. The benefits of a short barrel far outweigh the negatives in my use. |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 7:56:31 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being that I don't own anything less than 16, sure makes me look hard. Does definitely seem ideal for all of the above  I was on the opposite side of that coin. Had nothing over 11.5" for a long time. |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 7:28:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to wikipedia, and this, first it was for rimfire rifles (pre-1960) then centerfire rifles came later (1960) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act#cite_ref-Appropriations1998_7-0 http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1357583_1960_amendments_to_the_NFA.html Looks like the m1-carbine thing is *partially* true, see pdf in 2nd link. It, the swedish M94, and the M1873 winchester are specifically mentioned as being between 16-18 inches and not a gangster element gun. I find it also funny in the pdf they are wrangling over the definition of an "AOW". Guess people knew it was shittly written for a very long time. Thank you. That is indeed a good read. I stand corrected. |
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