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Posted: 9/9/2014 8:49:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Ahh, gotcha.
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Posted: 9/9/2014 9:05:10 PM EDT
[#2]
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I am leaning towards my 11.5, but I have been loving the 12.5s My teeth rattling 10.3 needs a can ASAP  It would not be my choice for my one and only SBR, unsupressedAs someone who has an 11.5 I want both a 12.5 and a 10.5.. It's real bad.. And threads like this don't do much to stop the want... I really really like my 11.5, but I love my 12" more. I don't think its so much the barrel length, but the fact its a simple lightweight iron sighted gun. Something about it is just fun to shoot. With that said, I have another 11.5" that is also KISS, but in a different flavor.... <a href="https://flic.kr/p/jFbtm9" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5508/12257808284_00a638897e_b.jpg</a>DSC_2747 by The Dorsal Fin, on Flickr Fin. What sling is that, and how is it attached to the stock? I need one for my M92. |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 9:45:23 PM EDT
[#3]
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I am leaning towards my 11.5, but I have been loving the 12.5s My teeth rattling 10.3 needs a can ASAP It would not be my choice for my one and only SBR, unsupressedAs someone who has an 11.5 I want both a 12.5 and a 10.5.. It's real bad.. And threads like this don't do much to stop the want... I really really like my 11.5, but I love my 12" more. I don't think its so much the barrel length, but the fact its a simple lightweight iron sighted gun. Something about it is just fun to shoot. With that said, I have another 11.5" that is also KISS, but in a different flavor.... <a href="https://flic.kr/p/jFbtm9" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5508/12257808284_00a638897e_b.jpg</a>DSC_2747 by The Dorsal Fin, on Flickr Fin. What sling is that, and how is it attached to the stock? I need one for my M92. gear sector 2pt - HK snap on the front and a paracord loop / buckle on the rear |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 10:31:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Yeah, I can go outta state anytime I want... It's a pistol...
And ... It's very reliable . 
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Posted: 9/9/2014 10:32:33 PM EDT
[#5]
11.5 in a 5.56 is the shortest I like for the following reasons:
- 40% More dwell time compared to a 10.5 - Velocity with M193 |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 11:05:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I can go outta state anytime I want... It's a pistol... And ... It's very reliable .
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg204/joshiedoom/92A1A625-F78E-4C2E-B892-F956CA7D09B1_zpsdpfh5xdf.jpg 5320's are free and being able to change stocks is nice. It's like saying I have a BMW 328 when you really want an M3. I don't get spending almost the amount of a stamp on an arm brace. |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 11:19:55 PM EDT
[#7]
12.5
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Posted: 9/10/2014 1:38:27 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I can go outta state anytime I want... It's a pistol... And ... It's very reliable .
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg204/joshiedoom/92A1A625-F78E-4C2E-B892-F956CA7D09B1_zpsdpfh5xdf.jpg You can go out of state with it without notice, and the rest of us can use real stocks on our rifles and fire them the way they were meant to be used. 
Those arm braces always remind me of Forrest Gump's leg braces. OP, I've shot everything from 10.5" to 20", and to me the big advantage of a 10.5" barrel is that when you put a silencer on it, it's not terribly long and the amount of rotational force (moment) placed on the rifle by the heavy silencer is less. Since you're not doing a silencer, I would recommend a 12.5" or longer, and avoid muzzle brakes like the plague. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 7:54:23 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5320's are free and being able to change stocks is nice. It's like saying I have a BMW 328 when you really want an M3. I don't get spending almost the amount of a stamp on an arm brace. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, I can go outta state anytime I want... It's a pistol... And ... It's very reliable .
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg204/joshiedoom/92A1A625-F78E-4C2E-B892-F956CA7D09B1_zpsdpfh5xdf.jpg 5320's are free and being able to change stocks is nice. It's like saying I have a BMW 328 when you really want an M3. I don't get spending almost the amount of a stamp on an arm brace. What is the wait time on a 5320? 45 days still? |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 8:20:11 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is the wait time on a 5320? 45 days still? Who knows? I faxed some off 7/18 that were approved 7/23 and I had them back 7/26. I faxed another set on 8/14 and haven't seen them, yet. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 9:08:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I can go outta state anytime I want... It's a pistol... And ... It's very reliable .
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg204/joshiedoom/92A1A625-F78E-4C2E-B892-F956CA7D09B1_zpsdpfh5xdf.jpg I never get that argument, but it seems to be HUGE with the Sig Brace crowd. So, when I cross a state line (I actually have to board a plane) I have to grab one of my 14.5 pinned rifles...I am fine with this, truly. The trade off to be able to have a B5 Sopmod or a Imod on all of my SBRs is most definitely worth it. With the current wait times being the shortest ever, those guys that have eligibility in their state are crazy not to get this done before the next election. Now cue the NFA tax hater crowd, and tell me about OPSEC and privacy. Just my opinion. i have shot with the dolphin vagina flaps. If it is your only possibility, rock on. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 11:00:27 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I absolutely love my CQBR clone. 10.3" 5.56 and never so much as a hiccup performance-wise. As far as buying the 5.56 vs the 300blk, if you're not going to suppress it then 5.56 all the way. ^ I agree with this. Love my 300, but if you're not suppressing it what is the point? 5.56 in 10.3 is a fun noise-maker. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 11:23:29 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is the wait time on a 5320? 45 days still? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Yeah, I can go outta state anytime I want... It's a pistol... And ... It's very reliable .
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg204/joshiedoom/92A1A625-F78E-4C2E-B892-F956CA7D09B1_zpsdpfh5xdf.jpg 5320's are free and being able to change stocks is nice. It's like saying I have a BMW 328 when you really want an M3. I don't get spending almost the amount of a stamp on an arm brace. What is the wait time on a 5320? 45 days still? You DO realize that anyone with an SBR can take the stock off their rifle and it's removed from the purview of the NFA, right? So they can cross state lines with their pistol just like you can? Surely you know that. The OP asked what SBR people would build, not which half-baked pistol they would build. AR pistols are next to useless, but 5320s are free and very fast. They're also good for a year at a time. Making a pro-pistol argument is stupid in the SBR forum. ETA: Enjoy the VFG with your pistol. Oh wait... |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 11:38:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You DO realize that anyone with an SBR can take the stock off their rifle and it's removed from the purview of the NFA, right? So they can cross state lines with their pistol just like you can? Surely you know that. The OP asked what SBR people would build, not which half-baked pistol they would build. AR pistols are next to useless, but 5320s are free and very fast. They're also good for a year at a time. Making a pro-pistol argument is stupid in the SBR forum. ETA: Enjoy the VFG with your pistol. Oh wait... You mean this one? ...Because if you are over 26", it's not a pistol any longer. The firearm below is legal.   Blah, blah, blah...  |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 11:40:44 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean this one? ...Because if you are over 26", it's not a pistol any longer. The firearm below is legal. http://routedriver.home.comcast.net/~routedriver/pub/misc/AR/AR-PistolToFirearm/AR-pistol6.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You DO realize that anyone with an SBR can take the stock off their rifle and it's removed from the purview of the NFA, right? So they can cross state lines with their pistol just like you can? Surely you know that. The OP asked what SBR people would build, not which half-baked pistol they would build. AR pistols are next to useless, but 5320s are free and very fast. They're also good for a year at a time. Making a pro-pistol argument is stupid in the SBR forum. ETA: Enjoy the VFG with your pistol. Oh wait... You mean this one? ...Because if you are over 26", it's not a pistol any longer. The firearm below is legal. http://routedriver.home.comcast.net/~routedriver/pub/misc/AR/AR-PistolToFirearm/AR-pistol6.jpg Fair enough. Everything else stands. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 12:30:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Or.... Have one pistol lower with a Sig brace if it's that big of a deal. That's what I do. I've got a 7.3" CMMG factory pistol that I installed a Sig brace on. Everything else short is an SBR.
OP, if I didn't have any cans I'd probably go 11.5" Seems to be the best compromise SBR barrel length. I'd say 12.5", but if I'm going to pay $200 to cut the barrel, I want to go short. For the record, my two 10.3's and one 10.5 run great. No reliability problems so far can or not. Mostly shooting steel case. One factory DD Mk18 10.3 and two ADCO cut down Colt barrels. Course the 7.3" runs good too. It's just a little loud..... |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 2:25:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 12" IDF / KISS carbine. It is really light and handy and becoming one of my favorite rifles. Plus 12/12.5" still provides decent velocity. https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5568/14763351369_759eabb48e_b.jpgDSC_4299 by The Dorsal Fin, on Flickr I have a YHM phantom 5.56 can that is on my 11.5", but have decided to leave this one unsuppressed (won't get a QD mount for it) as it will mess up balance. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 8:33:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Already ordered the lower and waiting on it to go to the CLEO with paperwork, but need to determine caliber/length for first build. What say those in the know? Get a trust (if you can) and don't have to worry about all the CLEO stuff. 
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Posted: 9/11/2014 1:00:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is the wait time on a 5320? 45 days still? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, I can go outta state anytime I want... It's a pistol... And ... It's very reliable .
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg204/joshiedoom/92A1A625-F78E-4C2E-B892-F956CA7D09B1_zpsdpfh5xdf.jpg 5320's are free and being able to change stocks is nice. It's like saying I have a BMW 328 when you really want an M3. I don't get spending almost the amount of a stamp on an arm brace. What is the wait time on a 5320? 45 days still? I faxed mine in with a note and had it within a week |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 1:03:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have me looking hard at the 12" upper at PSA now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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12" IDF / KISS carbine. It is really light and handy and becoming one of my favorite rifles. Plus 12/12.5" still provides decent velocity. https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5568/14763351369_759eabb48e_b.jpgDSC_4299 by The Dorsal Fin, on Flickr I have a YHM phantom 5.56 can that is on my 11.5", but have decided to leave this one unsuppressed (won't get a QD mount for it) as it will mess up balance. It's an excellent upper. Quality of my example of 1 - is on par with anything I have from BCM or DD. It's much nicer than other PSA uppers I've owned. In fact a friend has their 10.5 and it's also a very nice upper. |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 2:04:30 PM EDT
[#21]
If a can isn't an option, the only SBR I'd want would be in 6.8 SPC. They were designed for a SBR platform. YMMV
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Posted: 9/11/2014 3:01:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If a can isn't an option, the only SBR I'd want would be in 6.8 SPC. They were designed for a SBR platform. YMMV That's a Myth. The 6.8 SPC like the 6.5 Grendel was designed for the M4. Just because they're both exceptional M4/AR15 carbine cartridges doesn't mean that they were designed with the SOLE intent being sub 16" barrels. The M4/AR15 is IMHO the most versatile rifle on the planet. It's effective from a short 10.3" and shorter to a 24"+ barrel. An M4 is typically shorter than 16". However when those rounds were designed the majority of military M4's still had 20" barrels with the number of 14.5"-16" M4s steadily increasing. All that being said, I'd strongly suggest an SBR lower with a 12.5" Grendel Upper and a 12.5" 5.56 Upper. Now's a great time to get a 6.5 Grendel SBR upper. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?8891-Grendel-Short-Barrel-Group-Buy-Orders |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 8:49:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a Myth. The 6.8 SPC like the 6.5 Grendel was designed for the M4. Just because they're both exceptional M4/AR15 carbine cartridges doesn't mean that they were designed with the SOLE intent being sub 16" barrels. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If a can isn't an option, the only SBR I'd want would be in 6.8 SPC. They were designed for a SBR platform. YMMV That's a Myth. The 6.8 SPC like the 6.5 Grendel was designed for the M4. Just because they're both exceptional M4/AR15 carbine cartridges doesn't mean that they were designed with the SOLE intent being sub 16" barrels. I could have sworn the Army or whatever Special Forces outfit developing the round, determined the optimum barrel length for the 6.8SPC round was 12 inches..... and developed specifically for existing DoD M4's with just a barrel, bolt and magazine swap. ETA: I do remember reading something about the 110 OTM ammo being tested in MK12's, but I thought that was a side test and not the original intent. |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 9:08:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Commando (11.5" skinny bbl)
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Posted: 9/11/2014 9:12:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I could have sworn the Army or whatever Special Forces outfit developing the round, determined the optimum barrel length for the 6.8SPC round was 12 inches..... and developed specifically for existing DoD M4's with just a barrel, bolt and magazine swap. ETA: I do remember reading something about the 110 OTM ammo being tested in MK12's, but I thought that was a side test and not the original intent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If a can isn't an option, the only SBR I'd want would be in 6.8 SPC. They were designed for a SBR platform. YMMV That's a Myth. The 6.8 SPC like the 6.5 Grendel was designed for the M4. Just because they're both exceptional M4/AR15 carbine cartridges doesn't mean that they were designed with the SOLE intent being sub 16" barrels. I could have sworn the Army or whatever Special Forces outfit developing the round, determined the optimum barrel length for the 6.8SPC round was 12 inches..... and developed specifically for existing DoD M4's with just a barrel, bolt and magazine swap. ETA: I do remember reading something about the 110 OTM ammo being tested in MK12's, but I thought that was a side test and not the original intent. You probably read that the 12" barrel was determined to be optimal for the unit and its requirements for a carbine. Which translates to as short as they could go while meeting the ballistic requirements. That's far from being the optimal length for an AR15 6.8 in general. The beauty of the AR15 is its versatility, which means there is no one "optimal" configuration. |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 9:26:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Here is my take: 12"
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Posted: 9/13/2014 12:42:26 AM EDT
[#27]
First step...Done...Now to fill out the paperwork and have my CLEO sign off. I am indeed going to stick with 5.56 since I won't have to adopt another caliber and can use the extra dough elsewhere...be it more 5.56 or in the build itself. Just a toss up between a 10.5/11.5" barrel at this point. Gotta choose so I can get it on paper. Leaning towards 11.5, though. |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 1:27:52 AM EDT
[#28]
To each their own, but I have serious doubts about the performance of 556 out of a really short bbl. Much better to SBR an AK. Cheaper, more reliable, and harder hitting. Winning on all fronts...
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Posted: 9/13/2014 1:45:23 AM EDT
[#29]
9mm super shorty barrel
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Posted: 9/13/2014 5:40:51 AM EDT
[#30]
In 2008 I went with a BM 11.5" heavy barrel for my SBR build and I'm glad that I did. It runs 100% and shoots great.
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Posted: 9/13/2014 12:58:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To each their own, but I have serious doubts about the performance of 556 out of a really short bbl. Much better to SBR an AK. Cheaper, more reliable, and harder hitting. Winning on all fronts... An AR15 requires a vise and a wrench to change barrels. Takes 10 mins. Or, swap complete uppers, takes 30 seconds. I've built four 7.5" AR15 uppers that have had zero malfunctions. the Secret service carries P90s which shoot 5.7 rounds at about 400 ftlbs of energy to protect the most important people on the planet. A 7.5" barrel shooting 77gr Mk262 5.56 ammo will reach 700 ftlbs of energy. That is more than enough to penetrate level 3 vest at 50 yards. If you want an SBR as an all purpose rifle, 11.5" from a 5.56 is probably a decent length. If you want an SBR for a PDW type purpose for under 100 yards (which ALL civilian defense situations would occur), 7.5" is adequate with good ammo (hollow or soft points). |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 3:24:24 PM EDT
[#32]
I went with 11.5 BCM with KMR rail, light weight , easy to handle , great shooting gun ..
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Posted: 9/13/2014 6:19:25 PM EDT
[#33]
"Machining" is a little bit misleading. If you can use a drill you can SBR an AK pistol like an m92 PAP. The whole gun is $400 + a stock, which could be a cheapo milsurp set up.
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Posted: 9/13/2014 9:43:03 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AK's are not cheap or easy to SBR. The parts are not easily interchanged. Even if you start out with an AK pistol, you have to machine it to accept a stock. If you need to rebarrel, it is a complicated process that necessitates a press and new rivets. An AR15 requires a vise and a wrench to change barrels. Takes 10 mins. Or, swap complete uppers, takes 30 seconds. I've built four 7.5" AR15 uppers that have had zero malfunctions. the Secret service carries P90s which shoot 5.7 rounds at about 400 ftlbs of energy to protect the most important people on the planet. A 7.5" barrel shooting 77gr Mk262 5.56 ammo will reach 700 ftlbs of energy. That is more than enough to penetrate level 3 vest at 50 yards. If you want an SBR as an all purpose rifle, 11.5" from a 5.56 is probably a decent length. If you want an SBR for a PDW type purpose for under 100 yards (which ALL civilian defense situations would occur), 7.5" is adequate with good ammo (hollow or soft points). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
To each their own, but I have serious doubts about the performance of 556 out of a really short bbl. Much better to SBR an AK. Cheaper, more reliable, and harder hitting. Winning on all fronts... An AR15 requires a vise and a wrench to change barrels. Takes 10 mins. Or, swap complete uppers, takes 30 seconds. I've built four 7.5" AR15 uppers that have had zero malfunctions. the Secret service carries P90s which shoot 5.7 rounds at about 400 ftlbs of energy to protect the most important people on the planet. A 7.5" barrel shooting 77gr Mk262 5.56 ammo will reach 700 ftlbs of energy. That is more than enough to penetrate level 3 vest at 50 yards. If you want an SBR as an all purpose rifle, 11.5" from a 5.56 is probably a decent length. If you want an SBR for a PDW type purpose for under 100 yards (which ALL civilian defense situations would occur), 7.5" is adequate with good ammo (hollow or soft points). My M92 was very easy to turn into a SBR. Faster, easier and cheaper than it was to do my other two SBR AR's. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 8:14:05 AM EDT
[#35]
12.5" if running a standard flash hider, 11.5" if you're running a longer style muzzle device.
I have 11.5s and 12.5s which I run suppressed. I have found the 12.5" feels a bit less "SBR-y" than I'd prefer w/o the can. Those SF suppressor mounts are really long. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 8:16:46 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is the wait time on a 5320? 45 days still? I e-mailed one on Friday at 1PM had it back at 3PM
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Posted: 9/14/2014 1:38:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In 2008 I went with a BM 11.5" heavy barrel for my SBR build and I'm glad that I did. It runs 100% and shoots great. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/KobraCarry/Miscellaneous/IMG_2181_zps2e7530f2.jpg |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 2:16:13 PM EDT
[#38]
10.5 or 11.5 inch 5.56mm. Probably I would go with a BCM BFH 11.5" with KMR 10 rail. If not that, I would opt for a 10.5" CQBR upper with DD Mk18 RIS-2. I predominantly shoot my CQBR upper unsuppressed and really like it.
Other options worth considering are the Colt 6933 (11.5" bbl standard M4-type upper), 6943 (11.5" CHF bbl bbl, monolithic upper) , and 6945 (10.3" CHF bbl, monolithic upper). These are very reasonably priced and have the benefit of being factory made SBRs. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 8:23:50 PM EDT
[#39]
I contemplated on building an AR Multi Cal SBR very seriously. In the end I decided that for my use, needs, wants and preferences that it was not the way to go.
I built an AR Pistol in 300 Blackout from the ground up with a 10" barrel, KAK Pistol Tube and Sig Brace. Since then I have traveled 3 times to 3 other states on the airlines with no problems. I don't need to get permission to leave my state but above all for Hunting to me it is the perfect setup. Many counties in NC require you to be 8' above the ground when using "Any Centerfire Rifle". Legally you cannot shoot when on the ground on your own two feet. There are no such restrictions when using a shotgun, muzzleloader or handgun. Most of my hunting is in and on the fringes of swampy land and carrying a stand is just a total PITA! Additionally I can "Legally" carry it loaded in my vehicle where a rifle must be unloaded. Don't know how many out there have actually shot one with a Sig Brace but it is very comfortable for me and I am 6"1' 245#. Nope, no SBR headaches for me until I build a bolt gun SBR. 
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Posted: 10/3/2014 3:38:48 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My M92 was very easy to turn into a SBR. Faster, easier and cheaper than it was to do my other two SBR AR's. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: To each their own, but I have serious doubts about the performance of 556 out of a really short bbl. Much better to SBR an AK. Cheaper, more reliable, and harder hitting. Winning on all fronts... An AR15 requires a vise and a wrench to change barrels. Takes 10 mins. Or, swap complete uppers, takes 30 seconds. I've built four 7.5" AR15 uppers that have had zero malfunctions. the Secret service carries P90s which shoot 5.7 rounds at about 400 ftlbs of energy to protect the most important people on the planet. A 7.5" barrel shooting 77gr Mk262 5.56 ammo will reach 700 ftlbs of energy. That is more than enough to penetrate level 3 vest at 50 yards. If you want an SBR as an all purpose rifle, 11.5" from a 5.56 is probably a decent length. If you want an SBR for a PDW type purpose for under 100 yards (which ALL civilian defense situations would occur), 7.5" is adequate with good ammo (hollow or soft points). My M92 was very easy to turn into a SBR. Faster, easier and cheaper than it was to do my other two SBR AR's. The cheapest stock I have seen for the M92 and similar AK pistols are around $100. You can get cheap AR15 barrels for that same $.
With an AR15 it is assembly. With an AK it is machining (at the very least drilling and tapping two holes which need to be properly lined up and measured). So can you please explain how yours was faster, easier and cheaper? |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 3:47:03 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Machining" is a little bit misleading. If you can use a drill you can SBR an AK pistol like an m92 PAP. The whole gun is $400 + a stock, which could be a cheapo milsurp set up. I have an AR15 will all new parts that I built for under $400. Complete, including stock. Granted, some of the stuff I bought in bulk, so the prices were low, but you can easily build a PSA AR15 for $450ish.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 12:43:12 PM EDT
[#42]
Without a can having only 1 SBR, 12.5" would be a great choice, ballistically you don't lose much from 14.5 and you still have a compact overall package.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:37:33 PM EDT
[#43]
I went w/ a DD 11.5" barrel.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 7:47:19 PM EDT
[#44]
I'd SBR an AK.
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