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Posted: 9/1/2014 9:48:32 AM EDT
[#1]
What did you drill it to?
Most likely culprit is bad bolts. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 10:02:59 AM EDT
[#2]
Two bad bolts? Unlikely if they were decent brands. Especially when he endorses having drilled out the gas port.
Most 10.5" rifles are already substantially overgassed when a can comes into the picture. To me this sounds like the carrier is trying to pull the bolt out while the pressure is still immense, which would be consistent with the very short dwell time of an overgassed rifle. What buffer and spring are you running? With the setup you have described I would think you would at least need an H3 buffer and a stiffer spring to run well. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 10:43:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Two bad bolts? Unlikely if they were decent brands. Especially when he endorses having drilled out the gas port. Most 10.5" rifles are already substantially overgassed when a can comes into the picture. To me this sounds like the carrier is trying to pull the bolt out while the pressure is still immense, which would be consistent with the very short dwell time of an overgassed rifle. What buffer and spring are you running? With the setup you have described I would think you would at least need an H3 buffer and a stiffer spring to run well. both bolts are from the ARFCOM store, the initial BCD purchased was the phosphate, i believe, coated one offered for black friday, and was sent another after the failure. i am just a bit bewildered due to not having many issues before using these bolts. and i honestly do not remember what we drilled it to. but over-gassing is what i thought as soon as it happened again yesterday. and i am running an H buffer with this spring http://www.laruetactical.com/super-duty-chrome-silicon-buffer-spring |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 10:54:25 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Two bad bolts? Unlikely if they were decent brands. Especially when he endorses having drilled out the gas port. Most 10.5" rifles are already substantially overgassed when a can comes into the picture. To me this sounds like the carrier is trying to pull the bolt out while the pressure is still immense, which would be consistent with the very short dwell time of an overgassed rifle. What buffer and spring are you running? With the setup you have described I would think you would at least need an H3 buffer and a stiffer spring to run well. +1. 10.5" are historically overgassed, especially with a supressor. My guess is you messed up the gas port when you drilled, and it's overgassed. I would send it off to ADCO for diagnosis before doing any more testing. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 10:57:14 AM EDT
[#5]
Most likely over gassed, especially since you mentioned already having drilled the gas port. I would start with a heavier buffer first, then maybe a stronger spring/ heavier buffer combo to increase the dwell time a bit. When a direct impingement gun is gassed properly the bolt will move forward slightly before the bcg moves backwards to eject the spent case, this takes the pressure off of the locking lugs for a brief moment. This is apparently not happening in your rifle. Hope this helps.
ETA: If you do find a buffer/ spring combo that allows your rifle to function properly with the suppressor attached there is a higher probability that it won't function right when un suppressed. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:14:37 AM EDT
[#6]
Why not try an adjustable gas block?
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:40:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not try an adjustable gas block? I'm thinking this would be a good idea, and also a Vltor A5 system. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 12:22:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not try an adjustable gas block? Very good advice too. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 12:27:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Sounds like too much gas pressure going back into the bolt; and adjustable gas block sounds like a good idea.
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Posted: 9/1/2014 2:27:57 PM EDT
[#10]
yeah, an adjustable gas block was my first thought, which will mean i will have to ditch my Larue 9" as i am currently using a low-pro gasblock under the rail. i am also playing with the idea of a piston system, possibly, since this is at this point basically a dedicated suppressed rifle
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Posted: 9/1/2014 2:35:49 PM EDT
[#11]
New barrel?
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Posted: 9/1/2014 2:43:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
New barrel? Exactly. If it's that bad, then anything you do well be at best a bandaid. Op, how big did you bore out the gas port? What ammo did you test it with at the time? What ammo do you use regularly now? |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 2:47:11 PM EDT
[#13]
As bad as it is I can't imagine it's *just* a large port. Maybe an out of spec extension or something too?
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Posted: 9/1/2014 3:14:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yeah, an adjustable gas block was my first thought, which will mean i will have to ditch my Larue 9" as i am currently using a low-pro gasblock under the rail. i am also playing with the idea of a piston system, possibly, since this is at this point basically a dedicated suppressed rifle Adams arms, or if you are budget strapped, i have a take off CMMG piston system, collecting dust. Which ever way you go, you will need hand guards that accommodate the piston. I used a ball end on my 2 pc MI rail. Then used the latest magpul hand guards thet are drop in. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 3:30:55 PM EDT
[#15]
A piston system is only going to be more abusive to the bolt. The gasses in a di system act to push the bolt lugs forward during unlocking. You don't get that with a piston system.
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Posted: 9/1/2014 3:38:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A piston system is only going to be more abusive to the bolt. The gasses in a di system act to push the bolt lugs forward during unlocking. You don't get that with a piston system. I was going to say this as well, a piston wont fix your problem a d will likely break itself somewhere. Fix your problem. Either get an adjustable has block or a new barrel if you think its over gassed from the larger hole. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 4:47:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A piston system is only going to be more abusive to the bolt. The gasses in a di system act to push the bolt lugs forward during unlocking. You don't get that with a piston system. I used an AA bolt spring on my 7.62x39 AR build and even suppressed, I had no bolt breakage. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 4:54:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yeah, an adjustable gas block was my first thought, which will mean i will have to ditch my Larue 9" as i am currently using a low-pro gasblock under the rail. i am also playing with the idea of a piston system, possibly, since this is at this point basically a dedicated suppressed rifle There's some nice low pro adjustable blocks out there. I'm happy with my Syrac Ordnance Gen 2 and it fits under a MI Gen 2SS handguard. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 5:00:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used an AA bolt spring on my 7.62x39 AR build and even suppressed, I had no bolt breakage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A piston system is only going to be more abusive to the bolt. The gasses in a di system act to push the bolt lugs forward during unlocking. You don't get that with a piston system. I used an AA bolt spring on my 7.62x39 AR build and even suppressed, I had no bolt breakage. A bolt spring is a god start. However, I wasn't saying that a piston system will break a bolt, only that it will be more abusive than an equally configured DI rifle. In this case, a piston (with or without a bolt spring) is going to be more abusive to the system than the DI that's currently breaking bolts. OP, get a new bbl, It will probably solve your problem completely. Adding more forces and complexity to the system won't. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 5:21:22 PM EDT
[#20]
As OP is using a can on the rifle, I'd still go with the adjustable block even with a new barrel. Set it and forget it. Op, do you ever shoot without the can anymore?
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Posted: 9/1/2014 5:32:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As OP is using a can on the rifle, I'd still go with the adjustable block even with a new barrel. Set it and forget it. Op, do you ever shoot without the can anymore? No, not very often. And the reason I mentioned piston was thay I thought that most piston systems had adjustments on the block. Therefore, I could kill 2 birds with 1 stone: fix the aforementioned issue, and satisfy the BRD that has been pulling the the piston loving springs of my heart since I got the can 
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Posted: 9/1/2014 5:34:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A bolt spring is a god start. However, I wasn't saying that a piston system will break a bolt, only that it will be more abusive than an equally configured DI rifle. In this case, a piston (with or without a bolt spring) is going to be more abusive to the system than the DI that's currently breaking bolts. OP, get a new bbl, It will probably solve your problem completely. Adding more forces and complexity to the system won't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A piston system is only going to be more abusive to the bolt. The gasses in a di system act to push the bolt lugs forward during unlocking. You don't get that with a piston system. I used an AA bolt spring on my 7.62x39 AR build and even suppressed, I had no bolt breakage. A bolt spring is a god start. However, I wasn't saying that a piston system will break a bolt, only that it will be more abusive than an equally configured DI rifle. In this case, a piston (with or without a bolt spring) is going to be more abusive to the system than the DI that's currently breaking bolts. OP, get a new bbl, It will probably solve your problem completely. Adding more forces and complexity to the system won't. I'd rather not just junk this barrel, as it's is a nice deny ' barrel that has treated me well until recently. Though, a new barrel could possibly cost as little as a good adjustable block anyways. The reason I'm leaning towards either a block or adjustable pistol system is the adjustability between suppressed and non suppressed shooting |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 6:34:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Vltor A5 extension and buffer.
LMT Enhanced Bolt Carrier. Sharps S-7 Tool Steel Bolt. Some options to consider. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 6:40:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Vltor A5 extension and buffer. LMT Enhanced Bolt Carrier. Sharps S-7 Tool Steel Bolt. Some options to consider. Not a bad idea. OP, the LMT enhanced carrier is designed with a steeper cam pin path to keep bolt locked longer. This will reduce gas pressure at the time the bolt unlocks and the forces on the locking lugs. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 7:16:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yeah, an adjustable gas block was my first thought, which will mean i will have to ditch my Larue 9" as i am currently using a low-pro gasblock under the rail. i am also playing with the idea of a piston system, possibly, since this is at this point basically a dedicated suppressed rifle I think you might be able to keep it if you use the MicroMOA Govnah, its pretty low profile. It's super easy to use too, just stick a bullet tip through the rail and push the plate from side to side, it can be done in a few seconds. I put one on my 11" SBR and it operates that gun flawlessly with and without the suppressor, before I put it on the gun was horribly over gassed with the can and put crap in my face with every shot. Now it is awesome to shoot suppressed, I get almost no extra gas. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 8:29:31 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you might be able to keep it if you use the MicroMOA Govnah, its pretty low profile. It's super easy to use too, just stick a bullet tip through the rail and push the plate from side to side, it can be done in a few seconds. I put one on my 11" SBR and it operates that gun flawlessly with and without the suppressor, before I put it on the gun was horribly over gassed with the can and put crap in my face with every shot. Now it is awesome to shoot suppressed, I get almost no extra gas. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
yeah, an adjustable gas block was my first thought, which will mean i will have to ditch my Larue 9" as i am currently using a low-pro gasblock under the rail. i am also playing with the idea of a piston system, possibly, since this is at this point basically a dedicated suppressed rifle I think you might be able to keep it if you use the MicroMOA Govnah, its pretty low profile. It's super easy to use too, just stick a bullet tip through the rail and push the plate from side to side, it can be done in a few seconds. I put one on my 11" SBR and it operates that gun flawlessly with and without the suppressor, before I put it on the gun was horribly over gassed with the can and put crap in my face with every shot. Now it is awesome to shoot suppressed, I get almost no extra gas. I vote for The Govnah too, but I don't think it will fit under the Larue. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 6:25:37 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I vote for The Govnah too, but I don't think it will fit under the Larue. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: yeah, an adjustable gas block was my first thought, which will mean i will have to ditch my Larue 9" as i am currently using a low-pro gasblock under the rail. i am also playing with the idea of a piston system, possibly, since this is at this point basically a dedicated suppressed rifle I think you might be able to keep it if you use the MicroMOA Govnah, its pretty low profile. It's super easy to use too, just stick a bullet tip through the rail and push the plate from side to side, it can be done in a few seconds. I put one on my 11" SBR and it operates that gun flawlessly with and without the suppressor, before I put it on the gun was horribly over gassed with the can and put crap in my face with every shot. Now it is awesome to shoot suppressed, I get almost no extra gas. I vote for The Govnah too, but I don't think it will fit under the Larue. Thanks guys! Yes, you are correct that it will not with the Larue rail UNmodified. You could clearance the 'collar' and it would work. Below is a picture of what I'm talking about:  Another option is to use our 'baby Govnah' which is only $20 and that will definitely work with any rail. It is pre-drilled .043 and you just open it up to your desired size. No quick adjustability like the regular Govnah but it will definitely fix an overgassing issue. Below is a picture and you can see that we also slighty counter bore the port to allow for some mis-alignment.  Thanks! More info here: http://micromoa.com |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 11:17:49 AM EDT
[#28]
hmm, i like the idea of the adjustability a lot, but also like that $20 tag on the mini. and i do not mind clearancing the rail to make the adjustable model fit
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