Hey guys.

I'd never considered moving forward with an SBR. I always figured my carbine was perfectly adequate for home-defense and my .30 Gemtech HVT was mostly for use elsewhere (despite having QD FH's on my AR's too).

Now, I'm reconsidering that belief and I'm hoping for some advice on the matter.

See, I've got a really bad back and holding that carbine/can combo "at the ready" (while clearing my home, for example) triggers my back spasms somethin' fierce! With all the weight out front/at the muzzle, it only takes a minute for me to be in agony - despite the fact that I've got plenty of upper body strength to hold the damn thing! It's my lower back - and it goes crazy.  

I'm also wondering how short I can go and still have a reliable SBR (with and/or without the can). This is strictly for close in work, of course.

Also, how can I simulate working/carrying/scanning with such a weapon, so I'll be confident when I place the order? (I'm thinking about the center of gravity and where a VFG might best be placed on, say, a 10" or 12" SBR + can. Keeping the weight closer to my body is the goal.) Replicating it exactly may be impossible, but I'd be grateful for some guidance in that regard.

Lastly, since the HVT is .30 anyway - and considering what I'm trying to accomplish - should I add yet another caliber and build/buy a 300BO, rather than another 5.56/.223 (or, .308 for that matter)?

Thanks a lot. I appreciate whatever help you guys can offer. I confess that I am a babe in the woods on this topic!

depending on your model can you can go pretty short in 300bo
lookie here

If you want a 5.56/.223 SBR the shortest barrel you can use with the HVT is 10.3", but if you chose to go with a 300BLK, you could go down to a 7.5" barrel.  If you wanted to get a new can as well, you could go with a 5" 9MM...

Any reason to get another can is a good reason.

Well, of course, but I don't know if that's in the OP's budget...  

 

Of course if I acquired a 9mm can, then I would need a MP5 clone SBR (or a MP5, the wife will kill me either way, dead is dead, go out big) and there goes the jewelry fund for the wife.

a 4.5 inch .22lr barrel and a .22 can

but this is what i run a 10.5 upper
http://youtu.be/-qrhS67-jgg?list=UUYPQcqzNNfA6WMUHATPaXJg

For now, it's not!  

Good info, guys. What about the tube?

I would say given your uses I would go with an 8" 300 blk.  A short barreled 5.56 would work too, but even suppressed it is going to be loud indoors. Since you only using this for short work, 300 blk subs would be perfect.  Heavy hitting 220 gr bullets are very quiet suppressed.

Agreed. 5.56 is still loud suppressed. I still wear ear pro outdoors. I can't imagine shooting it indoors.

The HVT on any of my AR's is still remarkably quiet for a .30 can - at least, outdoors and surrounded by trees. But, you're right and that's one reason I was thinking 300 Blk.

Thanks a lot for all the replies. Looks like I've got my answer (most of 'em anyway!).

PS90.

Yes, it's a little underpowered, but all the weight will be back.

Truth

I am currently building a 300 blackout rifle for HD. I hope it is as quiet as people claim. I only have to save up for the rail everything else is already acquired.

I have an octane 9mm that should be back in a few months. I am getting a dedicated can for it. Looking at the gemtech GMT-300.

You might also consider going with a heavier stock to offset the weight of the can.

1-2 opposing team players already through the front door, my ears are the least of my worries, or concerns.

I agree. My current HD weapons are a 9mm and suppressed 5.56. But I am building a SBR 300 blackout to take the 5.56 place to save my hearing and my family's. It will also help my situational awareness In case there are multiple intruders.

Well of course you would grab the closest gun to you at that moment, but that point doesn't really matter when you are talking about building the best HD gun for your needs.

If you have family members with whom you'll need to communicate (as I do), you may feel differently about that if you think about it. Gunfire in an enclosed space is devastatingly loud. Thus, protecting my hearing (what's left of it) is pretty important - at least, to me!

Sure, I'd love to have time to don all my gear (ear-bud-comm's included), but unless we're talking SHTF, that stuff will stay where it is and I'll likely be in bed asleep when the tangos arrive. Therefore, the only useful alternative to traditional hearing protection is use of a suppressor - and, for a number of reasons (beyond my back problems), so is an SBR.

That's what I've concluded anyway. As always, YMMV.

ETA: Thanks for all the replies, guys. I'm pretty sure now how to proceed.

Wait time now around nine or ten months, I guess.  

If weight distribution and suppression are your main goals, look at a MAC-10 in .45 ACP or an 11 in 9mm suppressed for the best of both worlds.
Even a micro-Uzi in 9mm suppressed has a better 'weight back' distribution than an AR I've seen. Hold it in tight and chest high, very manageable.
ANd in .45 ACP suppressed, very, very quiet and virtually no flash, ideal for shooting indoors at night.

I have a 9.5 inch 300BLK and run a YHM qd can on it.  OAL is slightly less than a standard 16'' carbine.  Im running super sonic ammo in it.  Shot it a few times in the basement (unfinished basement with a proper backstop of 12'' of treated 2x10 lumber against the concrete wall).  It was still loud due to the supersonic bullet, but was tolerable.  And, in a high stress situation I doubt you'd notice.  ( I shot a deer with it last year without the can, and don't remember the shot being painfully loud)

I would feel very safe using this for home defense.

I have access to sub-loads, if/when I pull the trigger (so to speak) on the 330blk, so that's not much of a concern. You're probably right though. Of course, I shot a deer last year with SS loads and didn't notice much either! Suppressed is the way to go - period.

As for the next-above poster's suggestion I go with a pistol load in a sub-gun; it's not gonna happen. First, I can't afford another can - and second, even a sub .30 cal has got to have more kinetic energy than a pistol load (at least, I would think so). I hear you, though, and in my own personal fantasy land, I'd be right on-board with your thinking!

Ron Williams could fix you up with a 7.62x25 upper. Just have to avoid all the corrosive ammo around for it.

I went back and forth between keeping subs or supers in it for hunting and "general purpose use".  While the subsonic loads might have the same kinetic energy as say a .45ACP, keep in mind that most 300BLK heavy sub sonic bullets aren't designed for optimum performance at subsonic speeds, whereas a .45 JHP is certainly designed for optimal performance at < 1000FPS.   A benefit of using a lighter supersonic round (I chose the 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip) is that it will still have great energy, and perform very well at 1800FPS which is in the ballpark of where it runs out of my 9.5" upper.

The 125 is going to have 855 ft-lbs of energy at 25yds at a tick over 1755 FPS.

The 220 is going to have 519 ft-lbs of energy at 25 yds at just over 1000FPS.


Something to ponder when you consider ammunition selection.

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/sell-sheets/2011/300-whisper-intro.pdf

http://300aacblackout.com/resources/300AACBlackout06OCT2010.pdf

The beauty of the 300 Blk is that you can have both subsonic and supersonic loaded in the same magazine if you want to. If the first few subs don't stop the bad guy, and I think they will, you can have follow up shots with super. Even though the sub load is the same weight and velocity as a .45, the ballistic coefficient of the round makes a difference.

My results with the 125 Nosler match up pretty good with their testing, even though my velocity is just a bit slower.  Hit a deer at 25 yds.  Exploded the heart and lungs, and left a 1/2" hole for an exit wound.