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Posted: 10/11/2014 3:22:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's the city/state of the location indicated on your form, not some arbitrary location. That's not correct. It's not an "arbitrary location", but isn't restricted to the application address. |
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Posted: 10/11/2014 3:23:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's the city/state of the location indicated on your form, not some arbitrary location. No it's not. Read the statute. The address on the F1 is your mailing address, and where they'll have it listed in the registry. The location it's physically made is what gets engraved, which doesn't have to be your home or work address. I'll save you the time and post the regulation: (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; For a manufacturer, it's tied to the address where your FFL is registered and you conduct business. For a maker, which you are on a Form 1 (hence the title of the form "Application to Make and Register a Firearm"), it's simply where you made the firearm. Granted...most of the time it's the same. But there's no requirement for the address to match. |
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Posted: 10/11/2014 3:26:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No it's not. Read the statute. The address on the F1 is your mailing address, and where they'll have it listed in the registry. The location it's physically made is what gets engraved, which doesn't have to be your home or work address. I'll save you the time and post the regulation: (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; For a manufacturer, it's tied to the address where your FFL is registered and you conduct business. For a maker, which you are on a Form 1 (hence the title of the form "Application to Make and Register a Firearm"), it's simply where you made the firearm. Granted...most of the time it's the same. But there's no requirement for the address to match. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's the city/state of the location indicated on your form, not some arbitrary location. No it's not. Read the statute. The address on the F1 is your mailing address, and where they'll have it listed in the registry. The location it's physically made is what gets engraved, which doesn't have to be your home or work address. I'll save you the time and post the regulation: (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; For a manufacturer, it's tied to the address where your FFL is registered and you conduct business. For a maker, which you are on a Form 1 (hence the title of the form "Application to Make and Register a Firearm"), it's simply where you made the firearm. Granted...most of the time it's the same. But there's no requirement for the address to match. I beat you to it, but yours was more thorough. 
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Posted: 10/11/2014 3:37:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I beat you to it, but yours was more thorough. I'll send you a cookie. 
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Posted: 10/11/2014 5:35:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Mine is just "Lastname Trust".
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Posted: 10/11/2014 6:15:26 PM EDT
[#6]
I thought it would be cool to make a trust that said
We don't trust City, state And then mark We don't trust NFA City, state |
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Posted: 10/11/2014 8:51:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No it's not. Read the statute. The address on the F1 is your mailing address, and where they'll have it listed in the registry. The location it's physically made is what gets engraved, which doesn't have to be your home or work address. I'll save you the time and post the regulation: (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; For a manufacturer, it's tied to the address where your FFL is registered and you conduct business. For a maker, which you are on a Form 1 (hence the title of the form "Application to Make and Register a Firearm"), it's simply where you made the firearm. Granted...most of the time it's the same. But there's no requirement for the address to match. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's the city/state of the location indicated on your form, not some arbitrary location. No it's not. Read the statute. The address on the F1 is your mailing address, and where they'll have it listed in the registry. The location it's physically made is what gets engraved, which doesn't have to be your home or work address. I'll save you the time and post the regulation: (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; For a manufacturer, it's tied to the address where your FFL is registered and you conduct business. For a maker, which you are on a Form 1 (hence the title of the form "Application to Make and Register a Firearm"), it's simply where you made the firearm. Granted...most of the time it's the same. But there's no requirement for the address to match. Thank you. This was very informative. I learn something every time I log in here. |
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Posted: 10/11/2014 9:05:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you. This was very informative. I learn something every time I log in here. If you've never looked through it, check the Visual Guide I made for using EForms. Down at the bottom of the first post, I added a section on 9/25/14 that explains it in more detail and gives you the links to all the statutes and an ATF ruling from 2013 specific to NFA items. |
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Posted: 10/12/2014 2:29:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the word trust does need to be in the name What are you basing this on? I have not seen anything difinitive either way. But then, since a trust is a creation of state law, it could vary by state, I suppose. |
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Posted: 10/12/2014 2:32:33 PM EDT
[#10]
And if the word Trust does need to be in the name, I wonder what other interesting names we could come up with...
"Trust Me" "Trust No One" "TrustEd" |
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Posted: 10/12/2014 3:02:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are you basing this on? I have not seen anything difinitive either way. But then, since a trust is a creation of state law, it could vary by state, I suppose. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
the word trust does need to be in the name What are you basing this on? I have not seen anything difinitive either way. But then, since a trust is a creation of state law, it could vary by state, I suppose. in some jurisdictions the type of legal entity must be included in the name (e.g. sglkjhdfklsjg LLC sdjhsdlkfjh, Inc.) in others it is not required |
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Posted: 10/12/2014 3:13:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Last name Firearm Trust here, been good so far. ditto |
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Posted: 10/12/2014 3:15:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Used our initials and trust
Short and sweet |
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Posted: 10/12/2014 6:47:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm the jackass who created a trust before I realized I wanted an SBR and knew about the engraving REQ. Mine is 42 letters. Me too  Well, mine is only 40  
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Posted: 10/12/2014 10:06:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And if the word Trust does need to be in the name, I wonder what other interesting names we could come up with... "Trust Me" "Trust No One" "TrustEd" I really like this one. Mine is simply "LastName Trust." My last name is only four letters long so it's not much engraving to do. |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 8:19:37 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Me too Well, mine is only 40 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm the jackass who created a trust before I realized I wanted an SBR and knew about the engraving REQ. Mine is 42 letters. Me too Well, mine is only 40 Took some advice here and fixed it easily. I scanned the trust docs into Word - luckily there were no screw-ups or anything with the formatting or character recognition. Then I did a search and replace and changed the name, got it notarized, and submitted it. My Suppressor is under my super long letter name, my SBR is under the short one. |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 1:54:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Lastname NFA Trust
Short and simple.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 4:07:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Since you have to put the entire trust name on a lower, what are the problems with creating a shorter name when creating the trust. Instead of: [Last name] Revocable Living Trust I just use: [Last name] Trust I would use this on the paperwork for the trust and then use this on the engraving. Just want to see if anyone has any experience or advise when doing this. The "drawback" of a short trust name is simply confusion with other instruments. Also a longer, more descriptive name such as "revocable living" tells an attorney who reads the trust what sort of trust it is without having to read through every page (trust instruments can easily be 60, 80, 100 pages, and you pay by the hour). The lengthy trust instrument name is purely a function of the estate planning, et al specialized attorney who is using a belt-and-suspenders approach when drafting a document. A more descriptive name differentiates trusts from others, which is useful when a client or family has several trusts or when a person has a common name (Smith, Jones, Johnson). In reality though a trust is identified by more than its name, typically the details of the grantor or trustee, and having some unique one-of-a-kind trust name is not necessary. However naming your trust "In God We Trust" is going to be ripe for confusion when you call your dealer, etc. who has a dozen other customers who thought the same dumb name was cute. If you have other trusts it might be helpful to use a name that stands out. Also it may be easier to convey "Bob's Gun Trust" over the phone than "The EBCDVT Trust" where letters can get mixed up or misheard. When sorting through a mountain of papers it will probably be easier for your attorney or dealer to find "Sylvester's Silencer Trust" in a sea of "ABC Trusts." |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 7:44:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The "drawback" of a short trust name is simply confusion with other instruments... I'm going to assume most people here are forming trusts specifically to hold NFA items, and nothing else. Once created, they will not be reviewed by a "paid by the hour" attorney, unless you land in some sort of legal trouble (in which case, you're on the hook for attorney fees anyway). I see more potential for confusion coming from an uninformed officer who is responding to a call of an "illegal machine gun". You have an official-looking document that says the gun belongs to "Blood Bath and Beyond Super Bullet Hose Trust". But your name is Fred Jones. You can see why he might be confused, and he's not about to read the 90-page document you have stuffed into the grip of your blaster. On the other hand, if the gun belongs to the Fred Jones Trust, and your ID says Fred Jones, it might go a little easier. Actually, I like the idea of not putting the word "Trust" in the name at all. If my ID says GarrettJ and the gun belongs to a trust named GarrettJ, it's a little easier for the officer to make the correlation. In fact, he probably won't even know there is a difference.
(not legal advice - I'm just speculating here.) |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 8:00:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine is (first, middle, last initial) NFA trust. Was going to try to be creative, but simplicity won out. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 9:23:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going to assume most people here are forming trusts specifically to hold NFA items, and nothing else. Once created, they will not be reviewed by a "paid by the hour" attorney, unless you land in some sort of legal trouble (in which case, you're on the hook for attorney fees anyway). I see more potential for confusion coming from an uninformed officer who is responding to a call of an "illegal machine gun". You have an official-looking document that says the gun belongs to "Blood Bath and Beyond Super Bullet Hose Trust". But your name is Fred Jones. You can see why he might be confused, and he's not about to read the 90-page document you have stuffed into the grip of your blaster. On the other hand, if the gun belongs to the Fred Jones Trust, and your ID says Fred Jones, it might go a little easier. Actually, I like the idea of not putting the word "Trust" in the name at all. If my ID says GarrettJ and the gun belongs to a trust named GarrettJ, it's a little easier for the officer to make the correlation. In fact, he probably won't even know there is a difference.
(not legal advice - I'm just speculating here.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The "drawback" of a short trust name is simply confusion with other instruments... I'm going to assume most people here are forming trusts specifically to hold NFA items, and nothing else. Once created, they will not be reviewed by a "paid by the hour" attorney, unless you land in some sort of legal trouble (in which case, you're on the hook for attorney fees anyway). I see more potential for confusion coming from an uninformed officer who is responding to a call of an "illegal machine gun". You have an official-looking document that says the gun belongs to "Blood Bath and Beyond Super Bullet Hose Trust". But your name is Fred Jones. You can see why he might be confused, and he's not about to read the 90-page document you have stuffed into the grip of your blaster. On the other hand, if the gun belongs to the Fred Jones Trust, and your ID says Fred Jones, it might go a little easier. Actually, I like the idea of not putting the word "Trust" in the name at all. If my ID says GarrettJ and the gun belongs to a trust named GarrettJ, it's a little easier for the officer to make the correlation. In fact, he probably won't even know there is a difference.
(not legal advice - I'm just speculating here.) plus 1, you can be all cutesy, but what is the point. If your name or initials match your ID, it will look much more credible. That said, I still made the mistake of putting Collectibles between my initials and trust. I thought it looked too sparse and needed something more, but its a PITA to find space for Collectibles... Plus my LGS has a british guy working there and then we end up confused whether the word ends with ibles or ables... |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:41:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
plus 1, you can be all cutesy, but what is the point. If your name or initials match your ID, it will look much more credible. That said, I still made the mistake of putting Collectibles between my initials and trust. I thought it looked too sparse and needed something more, but its a PITA to find space for Collectibles... Plus my LGS has a british guy working there and then we end up confused whether the word ends with ibles or ables... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The "drawback" of a short trust name is simply confusion with other instruments... I'm going to assume most people here are forming trusts specifically to hold NFA items, and nothing else. Once created, they will not be reviewed by a "paid by the hour" attorney, unless you land in some sort of legal trouble (in which case, you're on the hook for attorney fees anyway). I see more potential for confusion coming from an uninformed officer who is responding to a call of an "illegal machine gun". You have an official-looking document that says the gun belongs to "Blood Bath and Beyond Super Bullet Hose Trust". But your name is Fred Jones. You can see why he might be confused, and he's not about to read the 90-page document you have stuffed into the grip of your blaster. On the other hand, if the gun belongs to the Fred Jones Trust, and your ID says Fred Jones, it might go a little easier. Actually, I like the idea of not putting the word "Trust" in the name at all. If my ID says GarrettJ and the gun belongs to a trust named GarrettJ, it's a little easier for the officer to make the correlation. In fact, he probably won't even know there is a difference.
(not legal advice - I'm just speculating here.) plus 1, you can be all cutesy, but what is the point. If your name or initials match your ID, it will look much more credible. That said, I still made the mistake of putting Collectibles between my initials and trust. I thought it looked too sparse and needed something more, but its a PITA to find space for Collectibles... Plus my LGS has a british guy working there and then we end up confused whether the word ends with ibles or ables... Which would all make sense if you didn't have that pesky little serial number that is unique to each and every transaction. All this is absolute conjecture and speculation. Name it what you want, I'll name it what I want. But you can't get past the serial number, no matter what opinions there may be. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 8:40:30 PM EDT
[#23]
[initials] trust
is all you ever need! |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 4:24:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The required information only needs to be engraved once, but you will need to add a model and serial number to the engraving (caliber as well if it's not already marked on the barrel). These model and serial # can be made up by you, but you'll need to make sure your serial number conforms to NFA requirements and is engraved properly as to character height... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Question; If I name my trust "Blah Blah City Arsenal Trust" and I make the manufacturers name on an 80% lower "Blah Blah City Arsenal Trust, Blah Blah City, State" Will the manufacturers marking suffice for the trust marking? I'm naturally cheap and only want to pay for one engraving. My thought is to have a retro "Colt Pony" with model number and serial number in the usual place but where the "Colt's Patent Firearms Mfg" goes, have my trust name and city/state. To ME it sounds like that would meet the requirements but we ARE dealing with the Gub'ment here.  |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 7:04:41 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well - looks like the ATF is "OK" with my Trust - "In God We Trust", which looks AWESOME engraved
Oh - and got my tax stamp in 4.5 WEEKS! WTF?? Approved: Nichole Lee http://s1.postimg.org/fzpmxzncf/sbr1.png Would've been cool to put the location as Hell, Michigan or something to go along with that trust name. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:11:52 PM EDT
[#26]
I wonder if trust names are copyrighted.
I love the previously mentioned; In God We Trust. How about; Trust No One ? |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:13:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So just to clarify, it appears the trust does not even need to say "trust". Is that correct? Furthermore, what would prevent you from just forming a trust called "Colt Defense" and then just putting your city and state on the lower? If push ever came to shove Colt would have a copyright issue with this. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:17:34 PM EDT
[#28]
One more issue; if you ever sell your created weapon someone else is going to have to buy it with your name on it.
IMO this is why a generic name is better not; "Smithers Trust"
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Posted: 10/23/2014 9:09:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Mine is XXYY Trust, mine and the wife's initials. Lawyer guy wanted to call it the "Fredman X Lastname Revocable Living Trust".
You can call it anything you want, but strongly encouraged to use the word trust somewhere in there. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 10:44:15 PM EDT
[#30]
Sounds like a traditional Trusts and Estates attorney for sure if he wanted to use that name :) Yes, you can name the trust anything you want but remember it is first an estate planning document, which people tend to forget, and thus important so I wouldn't suggest getting too creative. I funded mine with a round of .45 as well. You don't need to use cash, attach the cash, etc. I want someone to use one peppercorn (if you are an attorney or went to law school, you'll get the joke).
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Posted: 10/23/2014 10:48:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Doubt Colt would care about personal use in a trust.
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Posted: 12/10/2014 12:46:10 PM EDT
[#32]
All,
After deciding to start working on getting/making a SBR, I have run into my second obstacle. The first was learning that I could use the trust that I got a couple years ago when a local gun store helped me purchase a suppressor (Which at first seemed like a great idea). Now I am facing the realization that my trust name is a little big (same size as this but the name has been changed): The Revocable Living Trust of William Paul Walker. That is forty-nine characters and will look pretty bad (Thank you local gun store idiots). So, I have been going through this Website and Googling and here are the options that I have found: 1.Changing the name of my trust to something like Walker Living Trust or Walker Trust. If I change the name will this effect ownership or cause issues with my Suppressor? 2.Adding an “Also Known As” to my trust The Revocable Living Trust of William Paul Walker AKA The Walker Trust. I don’t think this will impact my suppressor. 3.Making a new trust. Seems like the more expensive but least complex option. Has anyone tried any of these options or something different? If so, how did they work? Anything you would do differently? Once I have a tentative plan, I will be going to a Trust attorney. Thanks in advance for any help, |
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Posted: 12/10/2014 1:06:48 PM EDT
[#33]
XXXXXX NFA TRUST here.
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Posted: 12/10/2014 1:07:28 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Has anyone tried any of these options or something different? If so, how did they work? Anything you would do differently? Once I have a tentative plan, I will be going to a Trust attorney. Take your current trust, copy it, change the name, get it notarized. Suppressors will be valid under one trust, anything needing engraving another the new one. Some people have a separate trust for each item. |
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Posted: 12/10/2014 1:57:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No it's not. Read the statute. The address on the F1 is your mailing address, and where they'll have it listed in the registry. The location it's physically made is what gets engraved, which doesn't have to be your home or work address. I'll save you the time and post the regulation: (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; For a manufacturer, it's tied to the address where your FFL is registered and you conduct business. For a maker, which you are on a Form 1 (hence the title of the form "Application to Make and Register a Firearm"), it's simply where you made the firearm. Granted...most of the time it's the same. But there's no requirement for the address to match. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's the city/state of the location indicated on your form, not some arbitrary location. No it's not. Read the statute. The address on the F1 is your mailing address, and where they'll have it listed in the registry. The location it's physically made is what gets engraved, which doesn't have to be your home or work address. I'll save you the time and post the regulation: (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; For a manufacturer, it's tied to the address where your FFL is registered and you conduct business. For a maker, which you are on a Form 1 (hence the title of the form "Application to Make and Register a Firearm"), it's simply where you made the firearm. Granted...most of the time it's the same. But there's no requirement for the address to match. So, in theory I could have a trust setup in my state of residence. Fill out the Form1, with my residential address but make the NFA item in another state, as long as the item is legal in that state. So I reside in TN, but I could make a silencer in one of 39 states, an SBR in 43, SBS in 39? Number may be wrong, but I like the ideaof having an item " made" in every legal state. I guess you should have the ATF transfer across state lines paper work submitted before you make on in another state? |
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Posted: 12/10/2014 2:07:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, in theory I could have a trust setup in my state of residence. Fill out the Form1, with my residential address but make the NFA item in another state, as long as the item is legal in that state. So I reside in TN, but I could make a silencer in one of 39 states, an SBR in 43, SBS in 39? Number may be wrong, but I like the ideaof having an item " made" in every legal state. I guess you should have the ATF transfer across state lines paper work submitted before you make on in another state? In theory, yes. There is a statute that allows you to make the firearm in a different state if needed. You would need the 5320.20s approved ahead of time, but you couldn't file it until the F1 was approved. (5320.20 not required for suppressors or AOWs) With the disclaimer about following all state laws as you go... NFA Handbook, Section 6.4, 3rd paragraph: If the applicant on the Form 1 lacks the skill, ability, and/or equipment to manufacture the NFA firearm, the applicant, after receipt of the approved Form 1, can have the firearm created or modified at a premises other than shown on the approved Form 1 as long as the creation or modification was done under the direct oversight of the applicant, thus having the applicant retain custody and control of the firearm. If the location is outside the applicant’s State and the firearm being made is a short barreled rifle, short barreled shotgun, destructive device, or an unserviceable machinegun which is being reactivated, the applicant will also need to request permission to transport the firearm interstate as required by 27 CFR 478.28 |
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Posted: 12/10/2014 7:30:02 PM EDT
[#37]
I didn't try to do anything cute with mine; just went with the lawyer recommended: "THE ### NFA TRUST" I used my initials for the ### part.
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Posted: 12/11/2014 12:26:58 AM EDT
[#38]
Lastname Armory Trust
Just sounds cooler. |
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Posted: 12/12/2014 9:32:36 AM EDT
[#39]
I kept it simple with XXX as my last name:
XXX Trust City, State |
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Posted: 12/15/2014 8:44:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Is there any reason why some names begin with "The" and some include "NFA"?
I suspect it is just user preference but you never know... |
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Posted: 12/15/2014 9:36:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there any reason why some names begin with "The" and some include "NFA"? I suspect it is just user preference but you never know... No reason other than "just because". |
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Posted: 12/15/2014 10:35:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there any reason why some names begin with "The" and some include "NFA"? I suspect it is just user preference but you never know... My lawyer recommend it; surely not necessary but either way was fine for me. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 12:28:06 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well - looks like the ATF is "OK" with my Trust - "In God We Trust", which looks AWESOME engraved
Oh - and got my tax stamp in 4.5 WEEKS! WTF?? Approved: Nichole Lee http://s1.postimg.org/fzpmxzncf/sbr1.png That's... actually kinda awesome! |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 5:22:53 PM EDT
[#44]
What about FBHO TRUST?
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