I don't want to have it engraved, so I need to find a manufacture that I can send the upper ,and some other parts to that will build a SBR  then send it (form 3) to my dealer.I want this SBR built on  a lower that is marked for (auto) and has a low shelf. So far all I have found is the Rainier Zombie . Who can do this?

It must be engraved, period. If you don't want your name or your trust's name you will need a factory SBR or one that a dealer has already registered. I got my AR lower the latter way from Atwell Tactical in Richardson, TX. It is engraved with their name and logo small on the ejection port side above safety markings. You could send the lower to an an Engraver like Ident Marking and they can mark it auto.

Be advised, you cannot make it full auto unless you have a RDIAS. Taccon 3MR triggers are also a faux auto option.

Yes I know. I don't want my trust engraved on it . I just want the manufactures name on it.

You can buy AR15 lowers that are already registered as a SBR and you dont have to engrave those. Just off the top of my head the Colt 6933 is a 11.5" SBR, Daniel defense sell their 10.3" Mk18 rifle, im sure there are others but those are ones i looked at. When you buy them you will transfer them via a Form 4 since they are already registered as a SBR, as opposed to a form 1 which is used when you take a standard Ar15 and "make" it into a SBR, in which case you must engrave it.

If you dont want the upper and want to build a custom upper some dealers sell just lowers registered as SBRs, i know there are some for sale on gunbroker.

As far as it being marked "Auto" just have it engraved by Indent or orion, they will match the font and depth of lettering and will look nice. Not sure why you would mark it with Auto unless it was actually truely full auto, and no the Tac Con is not auto, its just a semi auto trigger with a light pull, far from full auto. Also, true M4/16s are Marked "Safe/Semi/Auto" or "Safe/Semi/Burst" whereas most semi-auto rifles are marked "Safe/Fire" so if you get the word "auto" engraved you end up with "Safe/Fire/Auto" which means it was an after market conversion. You can find some lowers marker with "Safe/Semi" but they are harder to find, i think BCM is one but i dont think they sell them registered as SBRs

I believe J&R tactical is a company that will build and entire custom rifle for you, im sure there are others, just one i have heard about.

Or just man up and buy a REAL M16 instead of trying to pretend like you have one when you really don't

EDIT: I'll assume your reference to a lower shelf means you are looking into a RDIAS or a RLL. It is probably tough to find a modern AR15 thats ready for either of those as there arent that many of the drop in conversions out there, ive heard fewer than 500 RLL exist, not sure of RDIAS, but i do know M60JOE can do custom work on a lower, milling, timing, etc...I spoke with him briefly about it when i was looking into a RLL, ended up going with a Oly M16 lower instead, primarily because of cost (RDIAS and RLL prices have sky rocketed in the last few months!) but also not having to hassle with having to due the custom work, i can just slap any upper on the lower and be GTG.

Also, if you are considering getting a Machine Gun dont bother wasting money registering your lower as a SBR, its not necessary, MGs are allowed to have any length of barrel.

if you have any questions just shoot me a PM, im not a SBR/MG expert but i did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night

I'm curios as to how you could buy just an AR lower that is registered as an SBR?   I thought that in order to build or transfer an NFA weapon (specifically an SBR) you have to indicate on the Form 1 / Form 4 the barrel length, overall length, and caliber.  If you're just transferring (buying / selling) the lower you wouldn't be able to truefully put that information on the form.  

I can understand if you send the completed upper, LPK, and stock assembly to a manufacurer who would build and register the SBR, then transfer it to you.

Perhaps I'm missing something somewhere, but I don't know how you'd register just the lower.  

Thanks, and good luck with your SBR!!!!   Enjoy!

You seem to be at the front of the line. I will contact you for details. Thanks, I love this site!

I believe the preregistered SBR lowers have to start their life as a complete rifle, for example a colt 6933, it would be registered with a 11.5" barrel but maybe the dealer sells the upper and then sells the lower separately which is why one a rare occasion you can find brand new SBR lower for sale with no upper.



That is correct, if your AR15 lower was not registered as a SBR and you removed the RLL or RDIAS from lower you would have to remove the short barreled upper at the same time. But if it was registered you could leave it on.

The part in red is not true. There is no such animal as a transferrable pre-registered SBR lower. Even if a rifle was originally transferred to an FFL as an SBR, if said FFL removed the short upper and sold just the lower (by itself), the lower would be transferred as a standard lower on a 4473, as it is not an SBR when transferred. A lower is only an SBR lower when there is a short upper attached to it.

Well there is such a thing as a form 4 transferable registered SBR, as stated earlier the colt 6933 is a 11.5" SBR, colt make the rifle and fills out the form 1, then it's transferred to a dealer via form 3 then you can buy it and transfer from dealer to you via form 4. This is a popular option as its the only way to get a SBR that doesn't require you to engrave your name and city on it. I believe all SBRs when created are assigns a barrel length but you can find dealers who remove the upper and sell just the lower, technically this may not be a SBR since there is no barrel attached but it happens and there are grey areas within the law. if you don't believe me go to gun broker and search "SBR lower" there are tons being sold without uppers all being transferred on a form 4, guess its just assumed that you will be adding a short barrel once you get them.

There is no technical about it; it is not an SBR. There is no upper, therefore it cannot be an SBR.

To use a similar example as you used: A Colt 6920 (a 16" barrel rifle) is transferred to an FFL. Said FFL sells the lower separately. What would the lower be transferred as?

Other thread

Ok well if the ATF decides to crack down on dealers selling just lowers the dealers can easily get around it. Like said earlier the dealer will just ship it to the buyer with a cheapo short barrel upper and soon as the buyer get it the put the upper they want on it the buyer then ships the cheapo upper right back to the dealer. That would be completely legal and requires only one extra step and maybe $20 shipping. Personally I think ATF realizes this and is why thy haven't bothered cracking down dealers just selling the registered lowers.

Colt is a licensed manufacturer. They would not use a Form 1 to register an NFA weapon. Manufacturers use a Form 2 and they submit it after they make the NFA weapon.

All I can say is if you sell (transfer) or purchase only the lower as an SBR you are taking a heck of a risk and the possibility of Federal Criminal charges potentially resulting in Federal Prison time.  Then you loose your right to EVER AGAIN legally own a firearm.

Bottom line for me in all this is that I wouldn't want to get caught on either side of a transaction like this.

I will of course , have a complete SBR made. I am trying to figure out what barrel length I will use.

When I purchased my SBR from Rainier Arms last week I was give 2 options. Purchase a complete rifle from them or purchase the lower from them and provide my own barreled upper and pay a manufacturing fee. I decided to go all Rainier since I will not be selling this rifle. It was very tempting to use the 11.5 DS Arms upper I got new for $270. I did not ask how much the fee was.