Author
Message
Poppy83
Offline
Posts: 603
Feedback: 100% (39)
Posted: 5/23/2012 4:19:01 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
I have everything together for my 300 BLK upper except for the barrel. I backordered the 8" barrel and have been excited for it to get here so I can put everything together.

I called a shop and asked about the availability of the barrel. The guy said that there have been accuracy issues with the 8". He said it will go "bang" every time, but don't expect much in the way of accuracy.

Anybody have any experience with this barrel? Are there really accuracy issues or has it been isolated incidents? I tried searching, but did not come up with much...only one user with complaints of keyholing.

I am going to be shooting supersonic ammo until my 762-SDN-6 gets approved (I'm not even pending yet...).
RPM509
Offline
Posts: 268
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/23/2012 4:32:12 PM
An 8" 300 AAC barrel isn't by virtue of being 8" isn't inaccurate just because.
Perhaps the manufacturer had a bad run of those particular 8" barrels
he was referring to? Just because it's an 8 doesn't mean it will have accuracy problems.
Poppy83
Offline
Posts: 604
Feedback: 100% (39)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/23/2012 4:33:38 PM
He did make it sound like it was a bad batch. I have other 5.56 SBRs and I know there is a difference in velocity, but not in accuracy based on a short barrel. I just don't want to drop $360 on a barrel just to have it keyhole.
RPM509
Offline
Posts: 269
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/23/2012 8:14:12 PM
Honestly? I'd find another supplier. Sounds 'wrong' if you know what I mean?
jmt1271
&%@# HIPPIES
Offline
Posts: 13868
Feedback: 100% (56)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/23/2012 9:56:49 PM
[Last Edit: 5/23/2012 9:58:03 PM by jmt1271]
Noveske is as good as it gets in my opinion. Honorable mention to Larue LW barrels. They are amazing too.

Each of the above that I have owned or shot were more than impressive. Definitely superior to my abilities.


ETA- My first SBR, in the works, is going to be a Noveske 8" with NSR rail and MUR upper. I expect it to be perfect.
The Hippie Clown will bring them down!!
Poppy83
Offline
Posts: 607
Feedback: 100% (39)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/23/2012 10:13:18 PM
^ That's what I was thinking.

I didn't even know the NSR was out. Looks like an awesome rail...I already have a 7" Seekins BAR, though...oh well.
ds762
Offline
Posts: 2944
Feedback: 97% (39)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/23/2012 11:37:05 PM
bbl length has no correlation with accuracy .. never has and never will .. buy elsewhere to avoid sending your money to ignorant dealers.
Poppy83
Offline
Posts: 608
Feedback: 100% (39)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/24/2012 7:03:20 AM
^I agree. I don't think the dealer was trying to pick on the barrel length. He was saying that there was a bad batch of Noveske 8" barrels and it may be months before there are even any more of them on the market. This just struck me as false since Midway is expecting them back in stock by this Sunday.
RPM509
Offline
Posts: 270
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/24/2012 8:38:17 AM
Please don't think my 'run' comment above was directed at Noveske, it wasn't. It was directed at your dealer.
I really can't imagine Noveske or any other major barrel maker releasing an entire bad batch of anything. Not saying
it is impossible, just very unlikely to happen. I don't think your dealer is being honest, or doesn't know what he is talking about.
Could be wrong...but if you don't have that warm fuzzy feeling (not talking of drunken piss down your leg either), seek
from elsewhere.
follybeacher
Offline
Posts: 67
Feedback: 100% (15)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/24/2012 2:06:31 PM
Someone educate me.
I want an 8"Blk upper. I asked about accuracy and the responce was 'barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy... just velocity'. I understand to a degree, but I am concerned about the limitations of hunting with a 8" barrel and the distance I could/should engage them at. So if someone will, give me some advice. what to and not to expect out of this thing. thanks.
Poppy83
Offline
Posts: 610
Feedback: 100% (39)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/24/2012 2:14:57 PM

Originally Posted By follybeacher:
Someone educate me.
I want an 8"Blk upper. I asked about accuracy and the responce was 'barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy... just velocity'. I understand to a degree, but I am concerned about the limitations of hunting with a 8" barrel and the distance I could/should engage them at. So if someone will, give me some advice. what to and not to expect out of this thing. thanks.

I can be of a little help.

When you cut down a barrel, you are affecting velocity. How much it is affected depends on the round and how much you are chopping the barrel. Less barrel = less time for the powder to completely burn.

I have never shot a 300BLK, but what I've gathered is that it is designed to be effective out of a shorter barrel. Depending on the video/source, there is complete powder burn on an 8" or 9" barrel and 300BLK has been shown to perform (with good results...whatever that means) in barrels as short a 6.5" or so.

It seems that the 300BLK is an effective round inside of 300 yards.

Keep in mind, that I have only shot 5.56 out of short barrels and I'm merely passing on what I've gathered. I'm hoping a real expert comes along shortly.
GunDisaster
Member
Offline
Posts: 5124
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/24/2012 2:33:22 PM
My 8" barrel is very accurate with factory 220grn subsonic ammo. However the cheap supersonic 147grn ammo i bought isn't the most accurate. I'm getting about 1 MOA with subs, and about 3 MOA with supers. I'm happy though, it works well enough, and I mainly plan on shooting subsonic ammo anyways.
RPM509
Offline
Posts: 273
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/24/2012 4:08:38 PM
Yes, two above nailed it.

The 300 AAC Blkt round was developed for a short barrel (in the 9" range - don't remember the exact measurement), all or the vast majority of the propellant (gun powder)
it burnt and converted to expanding gases inside that short length. By comparison a 5.56/.223 has a narrower volume length and will generally not have used up the propellant by 16".

If you do the calculations, the volume between .308 and .223 in the same length barrels are hugely different with the .308 having somewhere around two (2) times the volume.
Greater volume generally = greater/faster burn times in the barrel.

Formula:

pi × r 2 × h

(for .223) 3.14159 x .1115 squared x 16" = 0.62491
(for .308) 3.14159 x .154 squared x 16" = 1.19209

1.19209 / 0.62491 = 1.90764 times the volume in the same length

So in the same barrel length, the 300 AAC will be at max velocity before the .223/5.56 given all else as equals.
Since the 300 AAC gets to speed in a shorter length, you can run it from a shorter barrel.

For 'accuracy calculations, you will need to take this into account along with everything else that affects accuracy,
wind, barometric pressure, altitude, wind speed and direction, bullet weight, powder used, metallurgy of barrels, lock type etc, et al ad nauseum...
Barrel length can effect accuracy, but really only peripherally, other more direct influences rule the day.

You can have a nice, bent 24" in bull barrel that won't hit shit at 500M sitting next to a cheap, but straight 10" barrel hitting the bull every round.
mountain_guy
Member
Offline
Posts: 419
Feedback: 100% (24)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/24/2012 10:11:26 PM
I read at the 300 BLK forum about a guy that did have major issues with his barrel. I think it was an 8 inch. The folks at Noveske made it right very quickly.
follybeacher
Offline
Posts: 68
Feedback: 100% (15)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/25/2012 8:28:53 AM
[Last Edit: 5/25/2012 8:38:33 AM by follybeacher]
I get the powder burn theory and that is why this round can be optimal for a shorter barrel. And that there are many factors that determine accuracy as stated above (very well articulated response and informative)
ok... so dumb it down to a simple question will help me understand:
a 16" or 20" barrel is no more accurate than an 8" or 10" barrel? Is this true? Both length barrels will have roughly the same grouping at 50, 100, 150, and 200 yards? (assuming same conditions/control group like).
Poppy83
Offline
Posts: 618
Feedback: 100% (39)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/25/2012 9:52:58 AM

Originally Posted By follybeacher:
I get the powder burn theory and that is why this round can be optimal for a shorter barrel. And that there are many factors that determine accuracy as stated above (very well articulated response and informative)
ok... so dumb it down to a simple question will help me understand:
a 16" or 20" barrel is no more accurate than an 8" or 10" barrel? Is this true? Both length barrels will have roughly the same grouping at 50, 100, 150, and 200 yards? (assuming same conditions/control group like).

If you are using the same ammo, with the same barrel (just different lengths), with the same shooter, and under the same conditions, one will not be more accurate than the other.

You will get more velocity out of the longer barrel and will have a shift in POI when going from one barrel to the other, but accuracy should be the same.
follybeacher
Offline
Posts: 69
Feedback: 100% (15)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/25/2012 11:33:58 AM
well i dont understand it, but thanks. maybe it's because i was misinformed that 'a longer barrel equals better accuracy'. so that is a false statement? i'm hard headed.
RPM509
Offline
Posts: 275
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/25/2012 11:51:29 AM
Yes, at face value that is a false (or at the very least -misinformed) statement.

Longer barrels DO NOT equal better accuracy, longer barrels DO = more velocity, to a point.
Mahamotorworks
"The Man"
NRA
Offline
Posts: 1199
Feedback: 100% (4)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/25/2012 11:57:01 AM
It is a lot to learn about Accuracy. If you google it you will find a lot of info and many opinions on it.

What accuracy boils down to is consistancy. If the barrel has consistant harmonics and the bullet travels at a consistant speed and you shoot consistanly you can get accuracy from almost any gun.

There is also a movement to shorter barrels are more accurate due to the stiffness of them comapred to a longer one.

YMMV

MAHA
Quote Originally Posted By rageracing
"......Tell the guy in the gun store that ARFCOM said he is a fucking dumb ass......"