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 DocGP 
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Joined: Apr 2003  TX, USA
 Posts: 3913 Feedback: 100% (8) |
Posted: 4/18/2012 2:29:11 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT Just curious as I play this game. Doc |
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Posted: 4/18/2012 3:09:03 PM
It's about perspective.
Put yourself in the BATFE agent's shoes. The question becomes "why hurry?". There is simply no reason for them to hurry or to streamline the process. They are the government, and we will wait like we're told to do. It's not like we can take our business somewhere else. And it's not like they care if everyone stops collecting NFA items. And in all fairness, for nearly all of us, NFA items are toys. Completely unnecessary and making us wait does no real harm. In fact, it could be an opportunity for us to learn patience. Az |
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CAR-AR-M16
This space for rent.
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Posted: 4/18/2012 4:22:53 PM
Saw this posted before and thought it was interesting. Here is a picture Gemtech posted on its Facebook page, this is just 1 batch of forms going to an examiner on a single day.
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Posted: 4/18/2012 4:29:55 PM
Originally Posted By CAR-AR-M16:
Saw this posted before and thought it was interesting. Here is a picture Gemtech posted on its Facebook page, this is just 1 batch of forms going to an examiner on a single day. http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/164857_478109755918_95700145918_6339639_5648302_n.jpg Woah, that kinda brings new perspective. Doc |
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Posted: 4/19/2012 11:32:56 AM
The ATF should still hire about a dozen more examiners. Let's be realistic or have we forgotten that the Government works for US, not the other way around.
Call your elected rep and complain. |
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Posted: 4/19/2012 12:55:09 PM
Originally Posted By CAR-AR-M16:
Saw this posted before and thought it was interesting. Here is a picture Gemtech posted on its Facebook page, this is just 1 batch of forms going to an examiner on a single day. http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/164857_478109755918_95700145918_6339639_5648302_n.jpg The top form is already approved. I wonder if that's the "Place Stamp Here" pile? |
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andrasik
GD's NFA Ambassador
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Posted: 4/19/2012 12:59:03 PM
Originally Posted By fcernese:
Originally Posted By CAR-AR-M16:
Saw this posted before and thought it was interesting. Here is a picture Gemtech posted on its Facebook page, this is just 1 batch of forms going to an examiner on a single day. http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/164857_478109755918_95700145918_6339639_5648302_n.jpg The top form is already approved. I wonder if that's the "Place Stamp Here" pile? Those are likely F2s and F3s. |
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bullyforyou
One ugly mother.
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Posted: 4/19/2012 2:06:43 PM
OP, when you realize that the ATF is not here to make sure you have the latest and greatest toys when you want them, but specifically for the opposite purpose, it changes your perspective. |
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Posted: 4/19/2012 2:17:58 PM
You need to remember that the government has been in a hiring freeze for quite a while now. They won't even hire replacements for retired or workers who quit. Add to that that more states are opening up to letting their citizens own NFA items and that makes that many more people sending in applications. With this being an election and everyone wondering if Obama gets reelected if he'll shut down firearm production, more and more people are attempting to get in while the gettings good and you can see that the line to get approved gets that much longer. This is also compounded by the fact that many people don't know what the hell they're doing and the examiner needs to fill out the "why your form didn't get approved "paper and send it out, result...more time wasted. Lots of people want more and more NFA items, limited examiners, 8-5 workday, no replacements or expansion of examiners and again, the line gets longer. Remember, every day you wait, you are that much further to being approved.
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Posted: 4/20/2012 12:57:20 PM
Originally Posted By devinsdad:
You need to remember that the government has been in a hiring freeze for quite a while now. They won't even hire replacements for retired or workers who quit. Add to that that more states are opening up to letting their citizens own NFA items and that makes that many more people sending in applications. With this being an election and everyone wondering if Obama gets reelected if he'll shut down firearm production, more and more people are attempting to get in while the gettings good and you can see that the line to get approved gets that much longer. This is also compounded by the fact that many people don't know what the hell they're doing and the examiner needs to fill out the "why your form didn't get approved "paper and send it out, result...more time wasted. Lots of people want more and more NFA items, limited examiners, 8-5 workday, no replacements or expansion of examiners and again, the line gets longer. Remember, every day you wait, you are that much further to being approved. There is a big misperception about this hiring freeze. I know, I am a fed and work at the Office of Personnel Management. They cannot add new employeee's to the federal work force except on a by exception basis. There is nothing preventing them from inter-agency hires. e.g an FBI employee can apply and readily be hired by ATF and visa versa. Bottom line, ATF just isn't looking to hire. |
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Friendly_Crusader
Nonsense personified
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Posted: 4/20/2012 2:00:07 PM
Originally Posted By CAR-AR-M16:
Saw this posted before and thought it was interesting. Here is a picture Gemtech posted on its Facebook page, this is just 1 batch of forms going to an examiner on a single day. http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/164857_478109755918_95700145918_6339639_5648302_n.jpg While that's one day of paperwork it is unlikely that they have 3-4 reams (2000+) of forms daily. That is most likely a stack that was building for a bit. I know Gem-Tech isn't hurting but they aren't making a cool million a day. Also I believe different examiners do different forms. (other than 1/4) |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 2:42:36 PM
[Last Edit: 4/20/2012 2:43:45 PM by 19Charlie_84]
I asked one of my C3 dealers the very same question last weekend at a gunshow. He is very knowledgable and actually forming an association among suppressor dealers and manufacturers to mass effects in DC. He also has several legislators on board and is headed to DC soon to tell the ATF they need to stream line thier process. There is absolutely no reason why a human even needs to be in the loop of the NFA process. They are using the same technology available at the NFA's conception in 1936, snail mail and a pen. Forms could be filled out electronically, emailed, processed by a computer, tax stamp taken out via debit/credit card, and then mailed to dealer when complete. Trusts: send one in to get validated, then dont change it, and your approval should be instant. NOPE, reinvent the wheel everytime.
The other problem is the fed doesnt want you and I to have cool guy toys. The NFA process was started to deter ownership by gangsters and get violators on tax evasion charges. Pray you dont have a muffler on your vehicle to reduce noise pollution. What's that you say? You want to muffle your firearms to save your sense of hearing? Maybe in 6 months. Its a miricle OSHA hasnt mandated the use of suppressors. I dont want to throw out the name of my dealer, but if he wants to chime in to let more light on this annoying subject I'm sure he can fill in more details. |
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felrom
Fighting Naturalist
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Posted: 4/20/2012 3:21:37 PM
Get active in the solution. Write your congressmen, educate your friends, and donate to the NRA-ILA, SAF and Heller Foundation.
Dear <Representative/Senator> <their name>, In accordance with the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA), certain classes of firearms require approval from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) and the payment of a $200 tax in order to transfer ownership. Regardless of this law's unconstitutionality in light of incorporation of the Second Amendment as a fundamental individual right in the case of McDonald v Chicago, there is a more immediate problem with its implementation. The BATFE makes the approvals for transfer by hand, using a slow process designed to waste time and delay approval for as long as possible. In a time of instant background checks to purchase firearms, the BATFE has managed to craft a process that requires no less than six months to perform no more rigorous of a validation of a person's right to own merely a different type of firearm. As it stands today, a citizen exercising their lawful right to own a firearm classified under the NFA must purchase the item paid in full, pay the BATFE $200 in taxes, send a package of paperwork requiring several hours to complete, and then wait six months for approval before they can take possession of their property. These long wait times are the direct result of the BATFE's refusal to place more personnel in the role of NFA examiner to expedite the approval process, or to reform the process to be more efficient in any way. I would like to ask for your support in pressuring acting BATFE director Bryan Jones to remedy these problems and expedite NFA approvals so law abiding citizens can take possession of their property in a reasonable time. Additionally, I would like to ask for your help in the future to repeal the unconstitutional National Firearms Act, either through supporting legislation or joining an amicus curiae when the NFA comes in front of the courts. Thank you, <my name> You can find contact information for your representatives here: http://www.contactingthecongress.org/ |
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CAR-AR-M16
This space for rent.
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Posted: 4/20/2012 5:13:39 PM
[Last Edit: 4/20/2012 5:14:21 PM by CAR-AR-M16]
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
Originally Posted By CAR-AR-M16:
Saw this posted before and thought it was interesting. Here is a picture Gemtech posted on its Facebook page, this is just 1 batch of forms going to an examiner on a single day. http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/164857_478109755918_95700145918_6339639_5648302_n.jpg While that's one day of paperwork it is unlikely that they have 3-4 reams (2000+) of forms daily. That is most likely a stack that was building for a bit. I know Gem-Tech isn't hurting but they aren't making a cool million a day. Also I believe different examiners do different forms. (other than 1/4) There are not only form 1's and 4's for us lowly individuals to be processed, there are also: Form 2's everytime a manufacturer makes an NFA item. Form 3's to transfer dealer to dealer Form 5's and 10's dealing with lawful hiers, repairs and LE agencies. Don't forget that every flashbang grenade that a PD uses are registered as well. And lastly, don't forget that they have to stop and send out an error letter everytime someone fills out their form incorrectly and gets put in problem status. The 10 or so examiners are doing paperwork for an entire country. I agree that there could be some streamlining to speed things up, but it is still an awful lot of paperwork. |
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oneshotkyle
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Posted: 4/20/2012 5:23:28 PM
at 200 dollars a tax stamp i'd have to believe that they can afford to hire more help. it ain't like they aren't making money off this chit. hiring more government employees is not what i'd prefer to do. but id go along with the electronic filing.
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puskrat
underused
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Posted: 4/20/2012 5:33:31 PM
Originally Posted By DocGP:
I know this is probably kind of like "why is the sky blue", but why the 6-9 mo wait for this stuff? Is there that much paperwork for them to do? Do they do that much background checking or just not in a big hurry? Just curious as I play this game. Doc teh purpose of the process is to keep you from getting your firearm |
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Friendly_Crusader
Nonsense personified
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Posted: 4/21/2012 5:02:47 AM
Originally Posted By CAR-AR-M16:
[quote]Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader: [quote]Originally Posted By CAR-AR-M16: There are not only form 1's and 4's for us lowly individuals to be processed, there are also: Oh I know, That's why I said other than 1/4. It was my understanding that someone else does other forms at a different address. I could very well be wrong though |
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Friendly_Crusader
Nonsense personified
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Posted: 4/21/2012 5:08:45 AM
Originally Posted By felrom:
Snip Don't forget to add in "a waste of taxpayer money" as many times as you can. It's simple math for a stupid government. Anti gun or not, it's easy to see that efficiency = more forms processed faster = more people sending in forms because 1 month or less waits are much more appealing = exponentially more money. The should have the IRS show them how to get shit done electronically, we'd have our approved forms back in 7-10 days. |
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osprey21
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Posted: 4/21/2012 5:23:21 AM
LOL... you think this is bad? You should have been in the game back in the 70's.
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Neomonk21
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Posted: 4/24/2012 10:06:14 AM
Originally Posted By felrom:
Get active in the solution. Write your congressmen, educate your friends, and donate to the NRA-ILA, SAF and Heller Foundation. Dear <Representative/Senator> <their name>,
In accordance with the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA), certain classes of firearms require approval from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) and the payment of a $200 tax in order to transfer ownership. Regardless of this law's unconstitutionality in light of incorporation of the Second Amendment as a fundamental individual right in the case of McDonald v Chicago, there is a more immediate problem with its implementation. The BATFE makes the approvals for transfer by hand, using a slow process designed to waste time and delay approval for as long as possible. In a time of instant background checks to purchase firearms, the BATFE has managed to craft a process that requires no less than six months to perform no more rigorous of a validation of a person's right to own merely a different type of firearm. As it stands today, a citizen exercising their lawful right to own a firearm classified under the NFA must purchase the item paid in full, pay the BATFE $200 in taxes, send a package of paperwork requiring several hours to complete, and then wait six months for approval before they can take possession of their property. These long wait times are the direct result of the BATFE's refusal to place more personnel in the role of NFA examiner to expedite the approval process, or to reform the process to be more efficient in any way. I would like to ask for your support in pressuring acting BATFE director Bryan Jones to remedy these problems and expedite NFA approvals so law abiding citizens can take possession of their property in a reasonable time. Additionally, I would like to ask for your help in the future to repeal the unconstitutional National Firearms Act, either through supporting legislation or joining an amicus curiae when the NFA comes in front of the courts. Thank you, <my name> You can find contact information for your representatives here: http://www.contactingthecongress.org/ Thank you for that. I sent it to my Representative. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 10:16:48 AM
Originally Posted By osprey21:
LOL... you think this is bad? You should have been in the game back in the 70's. What was it like in the 70s? |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 10:53:51 AM
Originally Posted By JimboJones1:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
LOL... you think this is bad? You should have been in the game back in the 70's. What was it like in the 70s? Trippy. Az |
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Friendly_Crusader
Nonsense personified
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Joined: Mar 2009 AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2012 12:05:00 PM
Originally Posted By JimboJones1:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
LOL... you think this is bad? You should have been in the game back in the 70's. What was it like in the 70s? I've heard stories of the wait times back then being 12-18 months. I don't know for sure though because I wasn't into NFA toys back then, as I wasn't born yet.  |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 7:46:03 PM
letter sent as well....thanks for that!
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Posted: 4/24/2012 8:59:04 PM
Originally Posted By Neomonk21:
Originally Posted By felrom:
Get active in the solution. Write your congressmen, educate your friends, and donate to the NRA-ILA, SAF and Heller Foundation. Dear <Representative/Senator> <their name>,
In accordance with the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA), certain classes of firearms require approval from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) and the payment of a $200 tax in order to transfer ownership. Regardless of this law's unconstitutionality in light of incorporation of the Second Amendment as a fundamental individual right in the case of McDonald v Chicago, there is a more immediate problem with its implementation. The BATFE makes the approvals for transfer by hand, using a slow process designed to waste time and delay approval for as long as possible. In a time of instant background checks to purchase firearms, the BATFE has managed to craft a process that requires no less than six months to perform no more rigorous of a validation of a person's right to own merely a different type of firearm. As it stands today, a citizen exercising their lawful right to own a firearm classified under the NFA must purchase the item paid in full, pay the BATFE $200 in taxes, send a package of paperwork requiring several hours to complete, and then wait six months for approval before they can take possession of their property. These long wait times are the direct result of the BATFE's refusal to place more personnel in the role of NFA examiner to expedite the approval process, or to reform the process to be more efficient in any way. I would like to ask for your support in pressuring acting BATFE director Bryan Jones to remedy these problems and expedite NFA approvals so law abiding citizens can take possession of their property in a reasonable time. Additionally, I would like to ask for your help in the future to repeal the unconstitutional National Firearms Act, either through supporting legislation or joining an amicus curiae when the NFA comes in front of the courts. Thank you, <my name> You can find contact information for your representatives here: http://www.contactingthecongress.org/ Thank you for that. I sent it to my Representative. So did I. |
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oneshotkyle
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Joined: Apr 2009 OR, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2012 10:28:16 PM
thanks for the link i sent it to the only republican we have in oregon.lol
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