User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
VA, USA
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Posted: 6/12/2017 12:45:35 AM EDT
[#1]
Hello everyone,
Long time lurker, first time poster. I recently purchased a bunch of polymer lowers and am considering my first from-scratch build to be an SBR and I was going to get an engraver to go ahead and get at least 2 of them done. There is a very small amount of aluminum that is used for structural integrity and a small section of it was left exposed for an engraved S/N. My question is, since there is no metal portion to be engraved, would engraving on the polymer be acceptable as "permanent"? For example "American Tactical Summerville, SC" is embossed into the polymer. I'll start on getting the required paperwork filled out in the next couple of days and I'm sure I'll have more questions then. This thread has been a great resource to get me started though, so thanks everyone for that. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/4/2017 11:33:03 PM EDT
[#2]
First off, BigWaylonThanks for all the info on submitting a Form 1, your step by step tutorial is awesome. I'm not sure if this has been answered or even asked, but for question 4d for model, I'm not sure what to put down, I'm using a Sig Sauer M400 lower for my SBR, and there is no "model" designation, other than SIG on the mag well and the sn and manufacturer & city info above the trigger. I know your previous answers have specified to put what is on the lower. Should I leave it blank or should I put down SIG? Thanks in advance.
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Posted: 8/5/2017 7:26:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WarriorSoulM4:
First off, BigWaylonThanks for all the info on submitting a Form 1, your step by step tutorial is awesome. I'm not sure if this has been answered or even asked, but for question 4d for model, I'm not sure what to put down, I'm using a Sig Sauer M400 lower for my SBR, and there is no "model" designation, other than SIG on the mag well and the sn and manufacturer & city info above the trigger. I know your previous answers have specified to put what is on the lower. Should I leave it blank or should I put down SIG? Thanks in advance. On top of that, it seems the ATF has access to manufacturer info (or maybe just a database of previous info) that has model name. I say that because they often give suggestions when they send out an error letter. So...you might put something down that is different from what they think it should be. Others may be able to give you a better answer...but I'll tell you want I'd do. I'd take a pic of both sides of the receiver showing all engravings, put "N/A" in 4d, and then print the pics on a single sheet of paper along with a sentence saying you put N/A because the model wasn't designated on the receiver. The regulation says the model has to be engraved, if designated. (My F1 suppressors have N/A on the F1s for model, and I didn't engrave anything for model). I'd send that sheet in with my forms. Odds are no matter what I chose to do, they'd send an error letter requesting something different. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 7:34:01 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CH1N4:
Hello everyone, Long time lurker, first time poster. I recently purchased a bunch of polymer lowers and am considering my first from-scratch build to be an SBR and I was going to get an engraver to go ahead and get at least 2 of them done. There is a very small amount of aluminum that is used for structural integrity and a small section of it was left exposed for an engraved S/N. My question is, since there is no metal portion to be engraved, would engraving on the polymer be acceptable as "permanent"? For example "American Tactical Summerville, SC" is embossed into the polymer. I'll start on getting the required paperwork filled out in the next couple of days and I'm sure I'll have more questions then. This thread has been a great resource to get me started though, so thanks everyone for that. The regulation says: The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. Do the commercial polymer firearms have metal plates for the SN? The regulation doesn't specify "metal", so I'm not sure it matters. Anybody ever seen the ATF answer a question on this? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/5/2017 10:13:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
I don't have a definite answer on that. The problem is that if you put something in the box, it's supposed to be engraved. So, if you put something there that's not already on the firearm, you'd be responsible for getting it added. On top of that, it seems the ATF has access to manufacturer info (or maybe just a database of previous info) that has model name. I say that because they often give suggestions when they send out an error letter. So...you might put something down that is different from what they think it should be. Others may be able to give you a better answer...but I'll tell you want I'd do. I'd take a pic of both sides of the receiver showing all engravings, put "N/A" in 4d, and then print the pics on a single sheet of paper along with a sentence saying you put N/A because the model wasn't designated on the receiver. The regulation says the model has to be engraved, if designated. (My F1 suppressors have N/A on the F1s for model, and I didn't engrave anything for model). I'd send that sheet in with my forms. Odds are no matter what I chose to do, they'd send an error letter requesting something different. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By WarriorSoulM4:
First off, BigWaylonThanks for all the info on submitting a Form 1, your step by step tutorial is awesome. I'm not sure if this has been answered or even asked, but for question 4d for model, I'm not sure what to put down, I'm using a Sig Sauer M400 lower for my SBR, and there is no "model" designation, other than SIG on the mag well and the sn and manufacturer & city info above the trigger. I know your previous answers have specified to put what is on the lower. Should I leave it blank or should I put down SIG? Thanks in advance. On top of that, it seems the ATF has access to manufacturer info (or maybe just a database of previous info) that has model name. I say that because they often give suggestions when they send out an error letter. So...you might put something down that is different from what they think it should be. Others may be able to give you a better answer...but I'll tell you want I'd do. I'd take a pic of both sides of the receiver showing all engravings, put "N/A" in 4d, and then print the pics on a single sheet of paper along with a sentence saying you put N/A because the model wasn't designated on the receiver. The regulation says the model has to be engraved, if designated. (My F1 suppressors have N/A on the F1s for model, and I didn't engrave anything for model). I'd send that sheet in with my forms. Odds are no matter what I chose to do, they'd send an error letter requesting something different. |
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Posted: 11/8/2017 5:47:09 PM EDT
[#6]
Sorry to rehash this thread but hopefully someone can help me understand something with the Form 1.
Filing as individual, section 4c, 4d, and 4g: For an AR lower, do I use the model and serial number that's already on the receiver from Anderson, or as the "maker" of the SBR, do I come up with my own serial number, such as "001" or something? CAN I use Anderson's serial number to make it easier? Section 4h: Walkthrough thread here says used to be left blank, but now you enter the information you'll engrave on the receiver. Would that information to be engraved be the following: XXXX (serial number no smaller than 1/16th inch, .003 depth) AR-15 5.56mm (model and caliber, .003 depth) John Q. Public, Anytown, NY USA (makers name and place SBR was made, .003 depth) Also, is there any way to have it be for multiple calibers, or would I need to list each caliber I "might" ever want? Thanks |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/9/2017 10:34:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Does location of engraving matter as long as it is on the receiver? A company I have been looking at to engrave mine offers the option to engrave under the receiver above and below where the trigger comes out so it would be hidden.
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Posted: 11/9/2017 1:32:24 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jjustice322:
Does location of engraving matter as long as it is on the receiver? A company I have been looking at to engrave mine offers the option to engrave under the receiver above and below where the trigger comes out so it would be hidden. THSF does a lot of engraving around the trigger hole. You could also put it on the front the magwell and most would never notice it. The one AR I had to add caliber to got it out right between get pivot pin ears with a dremel...completely visible, but can't imagine anybody ever noticing it. There's not even a regulation saying it has to be in the same location, or on the same part. And remember, all the stuff (other than SN) only has a minimum depth requirement...so it can be tiny. |
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Posted: 11/27/2017 2:45:45 PM EDT
[#9]
@BigWaylon can you help me out?
Is it legal to travel interstate with a sbr lower using a 16” barrel? And do you need a 5320.20 for a suppressor to travel out of state? I know that they are both legal to do, but I can’t find the language or the answer on the FAQ page. |
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Posted: 11/27/2017 3:53:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TATBME:
@BigWaylon can you help me out? 1. Is it legal to travel interstate with a sbr lower using a 16” barrel? 2. And do you need a 5320.20 for a suppressor to travel out of state? I know that they are both legal to do, but I can’t find the language or the answer on the FAQ page. 2. No. Look at the F1/F4 and the 5320.20. All mention interstate travel, and only list SBR/SBS/MG/DD. AOWs and silencers do not require the form (but you could still have local restrictions) |
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Posted: 1/31/2018 5:03:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Proto3]
[#11]
Edit: Nevermind, found the answer.
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Posted: 2/18/2018 10:04:36 AM EDT
[#12]
@elkoholic
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Posted: 7/24/2018 4:50:51 PM EDT
[#13]
@BigWaylon I filled out the pdf form of the 5320.20, do you know the email address that I’m supposed to send it to? I’ve always went the snail mail route, that I’d try something different.
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Posted: 7/24/2018 4:59:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TATBME:
@BigWaylon I filled out the pdf form of the 5320.20, do you know the email address that I’m supposed to send it to? I’ve always went the snail mail route, that I’d try something different. You would, too...if you read the instructions (page 3) on the form. The fax number and email address are there. 
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Posted: 12/31/2019 4:16:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Ok...have my first sbr. Did the trust....this way my fam can shoot my sbr and stuff. I didnt put them on yet becauae I knew I was gonna be adding another sbr to the trust. When this one is said and done..I will adding them.
Now I know some things have changed with paper work over the year or two since my first sbr. Last time I went with silencer shop, what is a easier way to do it this time? And how do I add this one to the trust...the first time was confusing as hell and this is no different. I know I have to get this lower engraved also, and I should engrave it the same way as the other lower, right? Meaning name on it and all? Thanks guys...I really appreciate your time. |
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Posted: 12/31/2019 6:34:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#16]
You file a Form 1 (assuming you’re making the SBR and not buying an existing one). EForms is the way to go at this time. The submitter will be the trust...so the firearm is registered to the trust.
How you document it with the trust is specific to the trust. Some use schedules, some use assignment sheets, some may use both, and some may do something else. ETA: and nothing has changed with the engraving requirements |
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Posted: 7/1/2020 7:58:05 PM EDT
[#17]
I submitted the F1 for my AR lower, it currently has a rifle upper but was originally a pistol.
Once I have the approval and engraving, it is only a NFA item with the rifle stock on it correct, if I swap on a SBA3 stock and it has a 10.5" upper it is no longer a NFA item correct. Also is it still ok to swap to different barrel length uppers or does it need to remain at 10.5" like I filled out initially. |
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Posted: 7/2/2020 11:40:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SilverLightning]
[#18]
Not sure if this is the thread to ask this question-
When engraving a Form 1 SBR, what if I don't live within city limits? Do use the town on my mailing address or just the county? |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 1/7/2021 12:53:56 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverLightning: Not sure if this is the thread to ask this question- When engraving a Form 1 SBR, what if I don't live within city limits? Do use the town on my mailing address or just the county? Use the city and state from block 3B on your approved Form 1. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 7/13/2021 2:05:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Form 1 SBR engraving question - I have an 80% lower that I want to have specific personally-amusing engravings, but it's also going to be a registered SBR. If the front of the magwell gets the proper (real name, location et cetera) markings, would I use those for the registration and still be able to run (for example) "Nerf Firearms Division, Fun City, West Pensyltucky" in the traditional left-side-receiver location?
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Posted: 7/13/2021 3:12:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ygolonac: Form 1 SBR engraving question - I have an 80% lower that I want to have specific personally-amusing engravings, but it's also going to be a registered SBR. If the front of the magwell gets the proper (real name, location et cetera) markings, would I use those for the registration and still be able to run (for example) "Nerf Firearms Division, Fun City, West Pensyltucky" in the traditional left-side-receiver location? Are you asking if you can do both of these? 1. Engrave all the required info in an acceptable spot 2. Engrave additional nonsense anywhere on the firearm If so, I know of no regulation that would prevent #2 as long as #1 happened. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 7/13/2021 3:14:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon: Are you asking if you can do both of these? 1. Engrave all the required info in an acceptable spot 2. Engrave additional nonsense anywhere on the firearm If so, I know of no regulation that would prevent #2 as long as #1 happened. Cool, just wanted to verify. Thanks! |
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Posted: 1/3/2022 6:05:15 PM EDT
[#23]
Potentially dumb question here:
If I already have a trust due to my suppressor, do I have to redo my fingerprints when I do a Form 1 to turn my MP5 pistol into an SBR? Also, how am I to accurately measure OAL if it will change once I swap from the current brace to the end game stock? Thanks for the help, these BS laws are confusing so far for me. |
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Posted: 1/3/2022 6:47:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MagnusActual]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CJ47: Potentially dumb question here: If I already have a trust due to my suppressor, do I have to redo my fingerprints when I do a Form 1 to turn my MP5 pistol into an SBR? Also, how am I to accurately measure OAL if it will change once I swap from the current brace to the end game stock? Thanks for the help, these BS laws are confusing so far for me. I believe you do have to submit new prints. That used to be the good thing about a Trust... No prints. Of course that's all changed now. Anyway... FYI: You can submit multiple Form 1's on one set of prints. As far as OAL, measure with brace then measure stock, add or subtract as necessary. |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 2:42:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: madmedic]
[#25]
Ugh... e-Filling out a Form 1 as an individual right now to SBR an AR15, and it has me confused.
I see no instructions for this stuff on the eFile website.
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Posted: 5/11/2022 8:08:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By madmedic: Ugh... e-Filling out a Form 1 as an individual right now to SBR an AR15, and it has me confused. I see no instructions for this stuff on the eFile website.
CLEO - its so you can mail it, but you have to fill in the details still. You can go online and request fingerprint cards from the ATF (free) and roll your own. You can buy them from Amazon also with the ink to roll them. Or you can possibly get your CLEO agency to do it. ATF how to do it; https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/fingerprint-card-instructions-and-example-fd-258 ATF Free Cards; https://www.atf.gov/distribution-center-order-form |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 10:03:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By madmedic: Ugh... e-Filling out a Form 1 as an individual right now to SBR an AR15, and it has me confused. I see no instructions for this stuff on the eFile website.
Print out a paper Form 1 and have it with you as you go through eForms. It’ll help. It also has examples of who qualified as CLEO, if you’ll actually read the instructions.  (Hint: I’ve never sent anything to my Sheriff)
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Posted: 6/22/2022 12:06:35 AM EDT
[#28]
Dumb questions from me.
Looking to SBR my poser Mp5. (AP5) and I see that they need the exact OAL on the form? Now I am not sure if I am going A2 stock (Most likely) but want to be able to try an A3 . Not exact OAL close but not exact. If I go A3 stock it is measured extended or collapsed? If I go with one stock then change it out is that a no no? Say A2 to A3? or vice versa? |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 8:05:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBoar: Dumb questions from me. Looking to SBR my poser Mp5. (AP5) and I see that they need the exact OAL on the form? Now I am not sure if I am going A2 stock (Most likely) but want to be able to try an A3 . Not exact OAL close but not exact. If I go A3 stock it is measured extended or collapsed? If I go with one stock then change it out is that a no no? Say A2 to A3? or vice versa? Look at a paper copy of the form. The answer on how to measure is there. Description of Firearm and Markings. (1) Item 4a. If you are modifying an existing firearm, enter the name and location of the original manufacturer. If you are creating the firearm, enter the maker’s name, city and state. (2) Item 4b. The types of NFA firearms are listed in the definitions; (3) Item 4c. Specify one caliber or gauge. If there is another designation, indicate the designation in item 4h. (4) Item 4d. Show the model designation (if known). (5) Item 4e and 4f. Specify one barrel length and overall length in items 4e and 4f as applicable. Note: if the firearm has a folding or collapsible stock, the overall measurement is to be made with the stock extended. (6) Item 4g. Do not alter or modify the serial number of an existing firearm . Enter the existing serial number or, if a new firearm, one you create. (7) Markings: The maker is required to mark the firearm with the maker’s name, city and state as shown in item 3b. All markings are to be in compliance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102. Changing stocks after the fact is a non-issue. Just submit something close, round to the nearest inch is fine. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:37:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WildBoar]
[#30]
Cool. Thanks. I just saw other comments seeming like they needed exact and wasn't sure if I would catch crap If I later swapped it out and they wanted to be dicks later.
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Posted: 7/16/2022 4:25:40 PM EDT
[#31]
This is a dumb question…I have a trust via SilencerShop. Am I able to form1 SBR my gun as an individual, outside of the trust? The reason I ask is I’m not sure about the process to add an SBR to the trust, and it seems like a hassle.
Assuming I can file as individual, am I right in the idea that later down the line if I wanted to add said SBR to my family trust I could do that? This stuff confused me to death, I really need to learn it better. |
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Posted: 7/16/2022 7:29:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CJ47: This is a dumb question…I have a trust via SilencerShop. Am I able to form1 SBR my gun as an individual, outside of the trust? The reason I ask is I’m not sure about the process to add an SBR to the trust, and it seems like a hassle. Assuming I can file as individual, am I right in the idea that later down the line if I wanted to add said SBR to my family trust I could do that? This stuff confused me to death, I really need to learn it better. You can always file as an individual. Or file as a different entity. You can then add it to the trust…for $200. You have to file a Form 4 and transfer it from you to the trust. |
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Posted: 7/17/2022 8:37:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon: You can always file as an individual. Or file as a different entity. You can then add it to the trust…for $200. You have to file a Form 4 and transfer it from you to the trust. Now…if I do file individual, and decide to add it to the trust, during the Form 4 waiting period am I allowed to use it? Or would it have to stay locked up? |
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Posted: 7/17/2022 9:00:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CJ47: Now…if I do file individual, and decide to add it to the trust, during the Form 4 waiting period am I allowed to use it? Or would it have to stay locked up? You’ll be the transferee and transferor, so it’s yours no matter what. Approved? Yours as a trustee. Disapproved? Stays your as an individual. During the wait? Still property of yours as an individual…so do whatever you want to with it. |
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Posted: 7/17/2022 9:46:23 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon: You’ll be the transferee and transferor, so it’s yours no matter what. Approved? Yours as a trustee. Disapproved? Stays your as an individual. During the wait? Still property of yours as an individual…so do whatever you want to with it. Thank you so much. That will make it a lot easier for me. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 11/16/2022 4:09:37 AM EDT
[#36]
It's been a long time but what needs to be engraved on a lower now when you're the maker of an SBR with multi as caliber by manufacturer ?
Trust name City, State And can the caliber be marked on barrel still? .223/5.56? |
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Posted: 11/16/2022 5:02:20 PM EDT
[#37]
My trust has a giant fucking name. I guess I am skipping the SBR route on my AP5
Sucks that it has to be plainly visible. I don't it will fit anywhere on that gun? |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 11/16/2022 7:02:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HammerTech]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By A96HondaAccordEX: It's been a long time but what needs to be engraved on a lower now when you're the maker of an SBR with multi as caliber by manufacturer ? Trust name City, State And can the caliber be marked on barrel still? .223/5.56? Yes and yes. Have to pick a caliber to get the Form 1 approved because they don't do "multi". Keep the upper around to return it to the approved configuration if it's ever needed. |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 11/16/2022 7:11:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBoar: My trust has a giant fucking name. I guess I am skipping the SBR route on my AP5 Sucks that it has to be plainly visible. I don't it will fit anywhere on that gun? You could always do it as an individual. My SBR's are engraved on the inside lip of the magwell. Plainly visible when the mag is dropped. |
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Posted: 11/16/2022 11:42:23 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HammerTech: You could always do it as an individual. My SBR's are engraved on the inside lip of the magwell. Plainly visible when the mag is dropped. Doesn't individual require CLEO Sign off? (going by the 1st post link) |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 11/17/2022 11:57:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: spyderboy03]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBoar: Doesn't individual require CLEO Sign off? (going by the 1st post link) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBoar: Originally Posted By HammerTech: You could always do it as an individual. My SBR's are engraved on the inside lip of the magwell. Plainly visible when the mag is dropped. Doesn't individual require CLEO Sign off? (going by the 1st post link) No. That went away with 41F. There is a notification, but the CLEO does not have to "approve." I just did 2 individual form 1's in August and September. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 12:00:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HammerTech: You could always do it as an individual. My SBR's are engraved on the inside lip of the magwell. Plainly visible when the mag is dropped. On an mp5 clone? |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 12:16:05 PM EDT
[#43]
I have a trust with a number of suppressors and SBR's but I haven't done an SBR in a long time. I vaguely remember something about needing photos of myself and the other responsible party even with a trust now? is that the case? or can I just send off the fingerprint cards and no passport photos after I file the eform? |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 12:52:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheRiddleOfSteel]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Quarterbore: Originally Posted By jercdevil: Do the SBR have to be built on a preban lower. I would assume so otherwise you could not have an telescopic stock. I have to very nice preban colts in the safe,but I would hate to take a engraver to them. I see this was answered below and it is on page 1 of the FAQ... quarterbore.com/library/pdf_files/shortbarreledriflefaq.pdf Is there an updated link to this FAQ? The domain is for sale, any links to it currently don't work. |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 3:23:37 PM EDT
[#45]
If you have a lower marked with Caliber Multi, can you use two different upper receivers of different calibers and lengths?
So like 12.5" Barrel 5.56mm 8" Barrel 300 blackout On the same lower |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 1:59:57 PM EDT
[#46]
I realize the OP is 14 years old, but the link is broken and the website is offline. Maybe it needs to be updated or unstickied.
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