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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2005 11:22:51 AM EDT
[#1]
I'm about to send my forms to my CLEO and want to make sure I've got everything. I'm sending:
2ea Form 1 with photo attached 2ea FBI Fingerprint cards 2ea Citizenship forms Am I missing anything? Thanks! |
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Posted: 3/24/2005 12:10:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MudBug]
[#2]
Nevermind
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Posted: 3/24/2005 3:16:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Anyone have a suggestion as to what I should put into line 4.h on Form1 as additional description of firearm?Also will ATF accept the form I filled out and downloaded from this forum ? It has a little printer icon in the upper left hand corner. I have actual forms but this looks much better. Thanks for any and all help.
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Posted: 3/24/2005 5:00:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Woot! I just got mine back in the mail today with the tax stamp on it. From the date above (september 30th 2004) until today March 24th 2005 is how long mine took. From date of mailing it took mine about 6 months. I will note that a lot of that time was my fault as I did mine as a corporation and neglegted to send in my articles of incorporation. It's much easier to submit a form 1 as a corp but don't forget to send in your articles of incorporation! now to my baby carbine build.... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2005 1:25:49 PM EDT
[#5]
What if i am buying a lower receiver for my son
as a gift and i register it as a short barrel rifle, will i be able to have his name engraved instead of mine so when he turns eighteen he wont have my name on his rifle. Thanks, Cowboy |
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Posted: 3/25/2005 1:30:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Witch_Doctor]
[#6]
IIRC, if you originally register it, it has to have your name on it. Also, you can't transfer an NFA weapon over to him until he's 21. 
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Posted: 3/25/2005 2:51:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Yes, the engraved name is not the "owner", it is the original manufacturer of the NFA item ie the person applying with the Form 1. This is why if you sell an SBR, the original name stays on it and the new owner doesn't need to add their name. |
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Posted: 3/25/2005 6:06:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Does anyone know what happens if for some reason you have a problem with your lower and you need to have it replaced once you register it? Are there any manufacturers out there besides Oly that will re manufacture a lower with an existing serial number?
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Posted: 3/25/2005 6:15:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fq1234]
[#9]
It can only be remanufacturered by the original manufacturer. If you signed the Form 1, then that is you. If you buy an SBR, then it is not you and can only be done by the original manufacturer. It may be possible to send your XXX lower that you remade into an SBR into the XXX factory and have it remade as long as you have your info reengraved onto it...but I'm not sure. This situation would be the same as someone sending a PAWS M16 receiver into PAWS, then PAWS sending it to Olympic to have a new lower with the correct serial number made. IT would then be sent back to PAWS to be converted to M16 and sent to the registered owner. (Yes I know PAWS isn't really around anymore) I guess it can be complicated and may depend on the individual situation. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/27/2005 2:42:35 AM EDT
[#10]
I kinda crack up at the concept of making many copies of the form and keeping it in a safe-deposit box. I mean, the SBR upper is only worth a few hundred dollars. I would not put a few hundred dollars in a safe-deposit box. If you lose the form and the ATF also loses their copy, then sell the upper. You can do that without the form!
A form-4 for an FG-42 is another matter as if you lose the form and the ATF loses their records, then you are out $100K. |
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Posted: 3/27/2005 8:43:45 AM EDT
[#11]
You're not keeping the form in a safe deposit box because of the value of the rifle, you're keeping the original form to keep your ass out of legal trouble. Have you ever been stopped by the po po with an NFA weapon in your vehicle? I was. It was an interesting beginning, but when I made the paperwork available things turned friendly in a hurry. But hey, if you trust the ATF to always do right by you and never lose a form, you go right ahead. Also, as for keeping the receiver in a safe deposit box, etc, again it's not for the value. It is a very nasty felony to make an NFA firearm available when the registered owner is not around. So, you leave your SBR at home and your wife or whoever uses it to shoot a bad guy in the living room, you could be toast. Crack up all you want, but I'll still be keeping the original tax stamp in the safe deposit, and photocopies in the range bag. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/27/2005 9:32:02 AM EDT
[#12]
I keep the original in my safe, and the copies in my range bag. A safe-deposit box strikes me as overkill for anything worth less than $1 million -- including my defense costs if the ATF also loses my paperwork.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2005 10:59:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Picked up my 2 CLEO signed Form 1's today from the SO. What's the general consensus on sending funds to ATF? Check, Money Order, Cashiers Check??
For point of reference, it took exactly three weeks from mailing to receipt of the CLEO signature in Pinal County AZ. Cheerz! |
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Posted: 3/29/2005 11:30:31 PM EDT
[#14]
I don't think it matters timewise. Just send a check.
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MA, USA
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Posted: 3/31/2005 1:05:08 PM EDT
[#15]
How tacky does the receiver look with engraving on it? So you can see the silver from the aluminum? Is there any companies out there that does special engraving on firearms that will fill in the silver color to match the receiver blueing. Sorry but i dont feel comfortable bringing a receiver into a mall store or having a teenage kid at "Things Remembered" doing it. Please advise, thanks guys....this post is great, keep up the good work!!!
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Posted: 3/31/2005 1:56:20 PM EDT
[#16]
One of the reasons I went this route |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/31/2005 2:32:19 PM EDT
[#17]
+1 Steve Sawyer is top notch and his work is incredible. Check out that thread to see what I mean. 
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Posted: 3/31/2005 8:51:56 PM EDT
[#18]
I have a Colt SP1. I was able to have the engraving done by a trophy shop towards the top of the right side of the magwell. When the flap is down, it is covered up. It was shiney after being engraved but I used Outer's touch up pens to darken them. You can't see it unless you put your face right up to the receiver. $14 for the engraving, $5 or $10 for the pens (I don't remember off hand) |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2005 2:34:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Well I received my stamp today. It took them 5 months. (04/05/2005) |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/8/2005 11:36:14 AM EDT
[#20]
I'm verifying with the CLEOs if they'll sign the ATF Form 1.
The Assistant City Attorney just called back and said he talked to the City Police and the County Sheriff and they told him that the Police/Sheriff were responsible for signing the form. We discussed the meaning of "a State or local district attorney or prosecutor" and he said he was going to call the City Police and the County Sheriff to verify their interpretation of the phrase (why the f*** would the City Attorney's office call the police for legal advice?) Did I totally misunderstand the form? Wouldn't the City Attorney be considered a local prosecutor? |
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Posted: 4/8/2005 12:50:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jtw2]
[#21]
Here's my finished build. What do you guys think? I'm going to go test fire it this afternoon and I'll let you know if the silly thing works!
 
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Posted: 4/8/2005 7:23:46 PM EDT
[#22]
TAKE NOTE!
Just got my Form 1 returned with note, "Need to be specific on: Length of marrel and overall and caliber." I used, Overall: less than 36" Of Barrel: less than 16" Caliber: 5.56mm, 6.8mm, .458 Caliber Don't now what exactly was the problem. May try to call the number on the note and see if they can advise. -LS |
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Posted: 4/8/2005 7:26:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jtw2]
[#23]
Interesting. I put <16" for bbl, <26" for overall and .223, 5.56 on mine. ETA, I took it out today for the first time and it ate up 270 rnds of xm193 flawlessly. I love this gun! |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/8/2005 7:32:40 PM EDT
[#24]
Please post results of your call.
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Posted: 4/9/2005 12:25:52 AM EDT
[#25]
Who was the examiner? It seems some are more "pickey" than others. |
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Posted: 4/10/2005 10:30:10 AM EDT
[#26]
NOTE: I accidentally posted from my wife's (LadyLiberty) account. Examiner = Rob Howard I think the most likely issue is the .458 caliber. I have a .458 SOCOM upper that is the primary motivator to building a SBR. I see how someone would look at "AR15" and see ".458cal" and be like... 'WTF?… That makes no sense. I'm going to send this back and ask for specifics.' The length's issue is a surprise seeing how everyone else has used similar. Still, I wonder if the .485 caused the examiner to wonder exactly what the hell I'm going to build and that is why he kicked it back. I'll try to make time to call them tomorrow. -LS |
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Posted: 4/13/2005 2:34:48 PM EDT
[#27]
I spoke to my examiner today in trying to resolve this "barrel length" and "overall length" issue. I was told explicitly that a number had to be provided for both barrel and overall.
Also of noteworthiness, I asked about listing multiple calibers. I was told that only one caliber was to be listed on the form 1, no exceptions. It sucks. The time I spent sitting on my ass thinking about getting the SBR ball rolling probably made the difference between me being able to send a form 1 through the BATF will mutiple lengths/calibers instead of being stuck with one length. I asked about what I would have to do if I wanted to change the barrel length/caliber in the future, and I was told a letter would have to be written and an approval recieved before any changes were made. So does anyone know how the overall length is measured with a A-4 telescoping stock? Collapsed? Extended? Thanks |
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Posted: 4/13/2005 3:33:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Feds measure extended. Some states measure with the stock collapsed. |
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Posted: 4/13/2005 3:44:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MudBug]
[#29]
I have to say that the inconsistancy in all this verges on criminal, an deliberate attempt to undermind my 2A rights. Not to mention the length of time it's taking for processing, and the ability for local CLEO's to throw their own "Personal" spin into the mix.
This whole thing makes me wonder why after years of thinking it was too much of a pain in the ass to build a SBR, I changed my mind. Now I have visions of continually resubmitting paperwork to comply with petty law and process reinterpretations. GRRRR! |
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Posted: 4/14/2005 8:29:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: spooky11]
[#30]
This is ridiculous!!!! I put under 16" and under 26" on my paperwork and sent it off last month. My check was cashed but nothing pending yet. If i get my paperwork back i may just tell them to stick it up their a** and get my money back. I don't understand why some people are getting forms approved with the same information that others are getting denied for. Also put 5.56 and 9mm for caliber. |
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Posted: 4/14/2005 9:01:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: -Tomster-]
[#31]
I'm not happy about it either. I am just passing along what I found out. The only reason I called is because some have already had their form 1's kicked back for such crap.
I'm putting my paperwork on hold temporarily until I can sort all this out or get some other guidance from the experts here. I don't know what the big deal is..... all they are doing is making more work for themselves. |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 4/15/2005 9:30:08 AM EDT
[#32]
So if your application gets kicked back can you just white out the areas that need changed or do you have to fill out the entire forms again and then have a LE sign it again. etc.
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Posted: 4/15/2005 10:46:49 AM EDT
[#33]
I had two kicked back about a year ago because I didn't list specific calibers. I just whited it out and listed all the calibers I wanted to use and a few more that I have no intention of using. I sent them back and they were approved. |
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Posted: 4/15/2005 3:05:34 PM EDT
[#34]
I called my examiner and the experience was not too unlike -Tomster-‘s.
I got the impression that: 1) The examiner does not know what an AR15 is. 2) The examiner is just doing what someone above him told him to do. It was very much like talking to a car salesman. “Oh, I don’t know if we can do that… let me check that… the boss says that….” He contradicted himself and when I asked questions would simply repeat what he said. The best I could understand, they want to know exactly what you intend to build. If it is a 10.5” barreled 5.56 NATO with an OAL of about 24” then put it on the form. If you want to change it later, send them a follow-up letter for approval. The conversation was something like this:
I have no idea what “approval” means. I do not know it they mean they will return an approval letter, or if they just put your letter on file… it seems very bureaucratic to say the least. At first I thought that I should be specifically vague. Tell them specifically what I am building now, but be vague about what I may do in the future. BUT, I don’t want to dick around and not be approved, so I plan on sending a simple letter with corrected Form 1 and state that I plan on building a 10.5” .458SOCOM with a 24” OAL. It is unlikely that I will ever change that or use another short upper anyway, so I’m not too worried about that. If I ever do want to change it to 6.8SPC, I will send them a letter. The examiner did at one time say “just send a letter explaining what you want to do, it will most likely just be approved and send back to you.” But I’ve been waiting for four months and I don’t want to risk being turned down, so I’m going to be specific. [cheers] -LS |
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Posted: 4/24/2005 8:13:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MisterPX]
[#35]
Here's a question for those that went the corp. route. Which boxes do I NOT need to fill out? Also, I don't have to get signature, send photos, or send citizen form, correct?
Also, do I need a FEIN before filling out the paperwork? |
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Posted: 4/26/2005 1:51:20 PM EDT
[#36]
I just called today to check my SBR status. I'm still listed as "Pending", but I did get the name of my ATF examiner (Rob Howard). He was not available, but I did leave a message on his voice mail. I would not bet $1 that he ever returns my call. I mailed mine in October of last year. If I do not hear something in the next few weeks I will try again. This is getting ridiculous.
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Posted: 4/30/2005 10:41:52 PM EDT
[#37]
I was told my examiner was also Rob Howard and my application isn't even pending yet. I gues they do it by Last name initials? I just hate that several people have had forms returned unapproved for the same info I put on my form 1. Do they return it to you unapproved after everything else is complete? that way you just correct what they tell you and return it for approval? Anyone know the turn around time on this? thanks. Also I left Rob a voice message 2 weeks ago and no call. I have tried several other times to contact him with negative results.
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Posted: 4/30/2005 11:02:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Va_Dinger]
[#38]
I think they track a request by your lowers serial number. At least thats what they always ask for when I call to check my status. Don't feel bad about Rob Howard not returning a phone call. I've left three messages on his voice mail with zero replies. |
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Posted: 5/2/2005 11:47:48 AM EDT
[#39]
I changed my Form 1 to specifically state Barrel = 10.5” Overall = 24” and Caliber = .458 (24” may be a little too short… but oh, f-ing well)
Just called Examiner Rob Howard and was told my Form 1 approved 4/28/05!  Whooo hooo!  - Gotta send off my upper to TeppoJutsu!-LS |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2005 5:02:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Questions:
I have now got a pistol (RRA lower and 9" barrel upper). I'd like to be able to use the upper on an SBR but also maintain my pistol status for the lower. Could I just get another lower with a stock and make that my SBR, then move the upper from one to the other (back and forth) depending on what I wanted to use it for on that day? I'd still technically have a pistol (hopefully grandfathered for the next go-round of AWB) and also have a registered SBR as well. Would that work? I wouldn't mind the investment on another lower but don't need the pistol and SBR at the same time. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2005 6:10:42 PM EDT
[#41]
I'm finally ready to send off the forms. his
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms National Firearms Act Branch 650 Massachusetts Ave., NW Room 5303 Washington, DC 20226 |
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Posted: 5/3/2005 9:36:48 AM EDT
[#42]
That looks correct. see-> www.atf.gov/pub/nfab/ -LS |
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Posted: 5/3/2005 3:01:59 PM EDT
[#43]
I just got told my SBR was approved April 28, 2005! Just for a heads up, I had the barrel length listed as "Less than 16" and overall length as "Less than 26" and mine got approved.
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Posted: 5/5/2005 3:14:12 PM EDT
[#44]
My form 1 was mailed off the last week of March and it just went pending as May 2, 2005. The lady told me it would be 90-120 days after my form 1 goes pending. I was told my examiner was going to be Rob Howard. I see he has problems approving forms 1's that have under 16" and under 26" on the respective lines. Does anyone know how much longer it takes to get actual approval if they have to send your form back to have you change the info? Will they wait until it is ready for approval to send it back to me for the changes or will they mail it back as soon as they see it is not to their standards? Will this hold up my approval much longer than it already would be? Thanks for any input!!!
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Posted: 5/6/2005 4:05:25 PM EDT
[#45]
After I changed my Form-1 from "under 16" and under 26"" and sent it back to Mr. Howard, it was approved and sent back to me within two weeks. This was after the initial 120 day wait. Let us know what happens. Some of the "under 16" and under 26"" ones have gone through. I still think mine was because I included .458 SOCOM in the caliber section and they went all WTF?'ish. -LS -LS |
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Posted: 5/6/2005 5:40:48 PM EDT
[#46]
I will keep everyone informed. I also put personal/LEO use in the appropriate block. Maybe that will help, maybe not, but I did get my sheriff's approval to carry this on duty when I get the form back.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2005 5:52:03 PM EDT
[#47]
Does anyone have the OAL for an AR with the traditional telescoping stock and a 7.5 inch barrel?
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Posted: 5/15/2005 6:03:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: spooky11]
[#48]
Is the current height and depth for SBR engraving 1/16" and .003" ?
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2005 6:13:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mobius]
[#49]
I was told by campybob that it's best to put the shortest length barrel that is available, like 10 inches in the case of a AR on the form 1........you can always put on a longer barrel, but you can't go less then what it is stated on the form. same with the OAL.......put the shortest length that would be for the shortest length barrel.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2005 6:23:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Thanks. The shortest I ever plan to go would be 7.5 inches. Does anyone have the OAL with the stock extended with a 7.5 inch barrel?
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