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Posted: 5/17/2017 11:30:17 AM EDT
[#1]
Get your FFL. Open a shop. Make your own suppressors and sale them legally. Thats where the money is right now.
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Posted: 5/17/2017 1:29:47 PM EDT
[#2]
I actually almost did that with my ex employer. I tried hard to steer him into the gun world. We started making steel targets. We really just did that to test the waters and as a side gig. We then started creating designs for suppressors, however it never left the drawing board unfortunately.
I think in reality I'd love to get a foot in the door to the firearms industry. I need Daniel Defense to open a North Georgia location! Haha |
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Posted: 5/17/2017 9:46:47 PM EDT
[#3]
You must have a FFL to work on others' firearms (unless you do it for free). As for money, you have to develop a business sense and figure out how much work it will take you to fix it and an hourly rate. Sometimes it's a flat rate.
Some guys find a niche, stick to it and make their money that way. Think of Bill Wilson and other custom smiths who do nothing but 1911s. Others are rifle builders, others stick strictly to engraving, others to stock making, others to shotguns. It's not the path to riches. |
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Posted: 5/17/2017 10:06:13 PM EDT
[#4]
In order............
As in all jobs there are days it's just a job. Those are also often the "Midas in Reverse" days when everything you touch turns to S**T. You BETTER love it or you'll be out of the trade in a few years. You have to be one of us odd-ball types that get satisfaction from the work itself. I was trained as a watchmaker and became a gunsmith also, specializing in Colt double action revolver work. Of the people I went to watchmaking school with, within 2 years most of those who's family didn't own a jewelry store were out of the trade and doing something else. The same holds for gunsmith school graduates. In a couple of years almost are doing something else. You find work using the school you attend and contacts you make. Often employers visit and the school also will usually offer at least some help locating a job. There's usually a grapevine working about possible jobs available.....pay attention. You start looking hard for a job when you're in the last year of training. The fools wait until close to finishing and have no leads when schools over. Jobs are found working for big shops like a Wilson, or smaller companies, in gun stores, or in industry or even civilian government that uses gunsmiths for research projects. You'd be surprised at what gunsmiths are hired to do for industry and government research, but they usually have lots of experience. A good source >IF< you're good enough and have some experience are the gun companies. You may get employed as a gunsmith doing repairs or as production line worker doing assembly for the gun companies. Production line assembly may not be what you want, but the pay and benefits are usually okay, and you build up experience and a reputation that may be useful other places. Forget working as an armorer for the police. In almost all cases the armorer is a cop or they send the work back to the gun company. Forget working as a gunsmith for the military. Military armorers are better known as "parts switchers". Actual gunsmiths work for marksmanship units, sniper units, and special ops units. These are almost all career military people. Civilians need not apply. People who are self employed often at least try working two jobs, but those almost always either build up a clientele and go full time, or drop the gunsmithing. It's tough to work 8 hours then come home and put in more hours and make any money at it. That also includes doing all the businessman functions in order to stay in business. If you want to do some gun work for yourself an online or correspondent course may help. If you're serious the only options are working as an apprentice or attending a full time attendance school. Very few good gunsmiths can also train others and almost none take on apprentices these days. When they do, YOU pay THEM usually for the training. The only viable option for a real professional is to attend one of the better schools. The good ones have reputations in the industry that will at least get you an interview. Most good schools are at least 2 year full time courses. Cost runs in the thousands of dollars, varies from school to school, but all good ones are very expensive. Additional info............. You better love it for the satisfaction of being a craftsman and doing top level work because you will NOT make much money. An old joke is: "How is a gunsmith and a large pizza alike? Neither can feed a family of 4". NO that's not a joke. A gunsmith who works for himself is NOT a gunsmith. He's a businessman who owns a gunsmithing business. A great deal of his day is talking to potential customers, ordering supplies, listening to dissatisfied customers, and most of all; doing paperwork, mostly for the government. Somewhere in there he tries to do some actual gunsmithing. When you figure in all the hours a self employed gunsmith spends, he's actually working for less then minimum wage. No, that's not a joke either. The only people in the trade who make good money are people like Bill Wilson who owns a big business with other gunsmiths doing the actual work. That's why you better be able to get job satisfaction from the work, because you will NOT own the Rolex, the nice car, the nice house, or take the nice vacations. Working for someone else usually offers decent wages and some benefits. While you spend 8 hours gunsmithing they have to do the paperwork. What school you attend is important. There are a number of them, some have better recognition and reputations in the industry. A "certification" or "degree" is only as valuable as the reputation of the school. As example "certifications" from internet or correspondence courses are a joke in the industry. If you apply for a job with one of these, if you're lucky they won't laugh in your face and will at least wait until you leave before pitching your resume in the trash. No businessman in his right mind will hire a gunsmith with those dubious credentials. Would you hire someone to work on a potentially dangerous and deadly object who got his training on a computer or through the mail? Last, there IS NO real certification as a gunsmith other then the school that gives it. The sole and only qualification you need as a gunsmith is a gunsmithing FFL. The FFL has NO STANDARD or licensing standards for actual skills or knowledge. You don't have to pass any type of skills or knowledge test, and no state has a "Gunsmith License" you need to be in business other then the Federal FFL. Any boob can fire up his printer and print up a "certification" and it has just as much validity as a internet or correspondence certification. Anyone can call himself a gunsmith. All that will set you apart is the school you attend. Going into business for yourself: You can do it, but you need to work for someone else a few years. This will give you time to actually learn the trade, build up a potential client base, buy the VERY expensive tooling, and find a location to set up shop where there's a good customer base. Go into business as soon as you're out of school, and I can pretty well guarantee you that you'll be broke and out of business in less then two years, if you even last that long. Even when you're good, lucky, and do it all right you have to be prepared to starve for at least a year until you can build up a clientele. During that year or more there's no money coming in but bills pour in. You better be able to eat somehow during that year, and if you're working another job you're not building the business. As an added kick, something like 50% OR MORE of all new businesses go broke, no matter what they are or who owns them. This is simply normal new business attrition. You may do it all right and still bust out. Last of all: The trade can be a very satisfying job and way to make a modest living. You have to be the type that can do GOOD work FAST, and get his enjoyment out of constantly trying to do a perfect job, even though perfection is not to be found. We need gunsmiths, but they need to be good ones, so that's another reason for going to a top school. One way or another the instructors will let you know if you simply don't have the skills or talent and are wasting your time. Lower quality schools will often keep you on just for your money. Choose wisely. Enter this trade with both eyes very wide open. If you're even thinking of going into business you damn well BETTER be taking some business courses. If the school doesn't offer them, go to night school. I know several absolutely Master level watchmakers and gunsmiths who went broke because they knew nothing about running a business. That business stuff is boring and a pain, but you better have it flat down or we'll see you in bankruptcy court. Here's the list of American gunsmith schools. In past years the Colorado School of Trades, and Trinidad Jr. College were the top. School of Trades may have dropped in reputation in the last few years. Don't pick one just because it's close. Colorado School of Trades 1575 Hoyt Street Lakewood, CO 80215 Phone: 800-234-4594 Lassen Community College P.O. Box 3000 Susanville, CA 96130 Phone: 530-257-4211 Modern Gun School 80 North Main Street, P.O. Box 846 St. Albans, VT 05478 Phone: 800-493-4114 Montgomery Community College 1011 Page Street P.O. Box 787 Troy, NC 27371 Phone: 800-839-6222 Murray State College One Murray Campus Tishomingo, OK 73460 Phone: 580-371-2371 Pennsylvania Gunsmith School 812 Ohio River Blvd. Avalon Pittsburgh, PA 15202 Phone: 412-766-1812 Piedmont Community College 1715 College Drive P.O. Box 1197 Roxboro, NC 27573 Phone: 336-599-1181 Pine Technical Institute 900 4th Street Pine City, MN 55063 Phone: 800-521-7463 Trinidad State Jr. College 600 Prospect Trinidad, CO 81082 Phone: 800-621-8752 Yavapai College 1100 East Sheldon Street Prescott, AZ 86301 Phone: 520-776-2150 |
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Posted: 5/18/2017 4:13:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In order............ As in all jobs there are days it's just a job. Those are also often the "Midas in Reverse" days when everything you touch turns to S**T. You BETTER love it or you'll be out of the trade in a few years. You have to be one of us odd-ball types that get satisfaction from the work itself. I was trained as a watchmaker and became a gunsmith also, specializing in Colt double action revolver work. Of the people I went to watchmaking school with, within 2 years most of those who's family didn't own a jewelry store were out of the trade and doing something else. The same holds for gunsmith school graduates. In a couple of years almost are doing something else. You find work using the school you attend and contacts you make. Often employers visit and the school also will usually offer at least some help locating a job. There's usually a grapevine working about possible jobs available.....pay attention. You start looking hard for a job when you're in the last year of training. The fools wait until close to finishing and have no leads when schools over. Jobs are found working for big shops like a Wilson, or smaller companies, in gun stores, or in industry or even civilian government that uses gunsmiths for research projects. You'd be surprised at what gunsmiths are hired to do for industry and government research, but they usually have lots of experience. A good source >IF< you're good enough and have some experience are the gun companies. You may get employed as a gunsmith doing repairs or as production line worker doing assembly for the gun companies. Production line assembly may not be what you want, but the pay and benefits are usually okay, and you build up experience and a reputation that may be useful other places. Forget working as an armorer for the police. In almost all cases the armorer is a cop or they send the work back to the gun company. Forget working as a gunsmith for the military. Military armorers are better known as "parts switchers". Actual gunsmiths work for marksmanship units, sniper units, and special ops units. These are almost all career military people. Civilians need not apply. People who are self employed often at least try working two jobs, but those almost always either build up a clientele and go full time, or drop the gunsmithing. It's tough to work 8 hours then come home and put in more hours and make any money at it. That also includes doing all the businessman functions in order to stay in business. If you want to do some gun work for yourself an online or correspondent course may help. If you're serious the only options are working as an apprentice or attending a full time attendance school. Very few good gunsmiths can also train others and almost none take on apprentices these days. When they do, YOU pay THEM usually for the training. The only viable option for a real professional is to attend one of the better schools. The good ones have reputations in the industry that will at least get you an interview. Most good schools are at least 2 year full time courses. Cost runs in the thousands of dollars, varies from school to school, but all good ones are very expensive. Additional info............. You better love it for the satisfaction of being a craftsman and doing top level work because you will NOT make much money. An old joke is: "How is a gunsmith and a large pizza alike? Neither can feed a family of 4". NO that's not a joke. A gunsmith who works for himself is NOT a gunsmith. He's a businessman who owns a gunsmithing business. A great deal of his day is talking to potential customers, ordering supplies, listening to dissatisfied customers, and most of all; doing paperwork, mostly for the government. Somewhere in there he tries to do some actual gunsmithing. When you figure in all the hours a self employed gunsmith spends, he's actually working for less then minimum wage. No, that's not a joke either. The only people in the trade who make good money are people like Bill Wilson who owns a big business with other gunsmiths doing the actual work. That's why you better be able to get job satisfaction from the work, because you will NOT own the Rolex, the nice car, the nice house, or take the nice vacations. Working for someone else usually offers decent wages and some benefits. While you spend 8 hours gunsmithing they have to do the paperwork. What school you attend is important. There are a number of them, some have better recognition and reputations in the industry. A "certification" or "degree" is only as valuable as the reputation of the school. As example "certifications" from internet or correspondence courses are a joke in the industry. If you apply for a job with one of these, if you're lucky they won't laugh in your face and will at least wait until you leave before pitching your resume in the trash. No businessman in his right mind will hire a gunsmith with those dubious credentials. Would you hire someone to work on a potentially dangerous and deadly object who got his training on a computer or through the mail? Last, there IS NO real certification as a gunsmith other then the school that gives it. The sole and only qualification you need as a gunsmith is a gunsmithing FFL. The FFL has NO STANDARD or licensing standards for actual skills or knowledge. You don't have to pass any type of skills or knowledge test, and no state has a "Gunsmith License" you need to be in business other then the Federal FFL. Any boob can fire up his printer and print up a "certification" and it has just as much validity as a internet or correspondence certification. Anyone can call himself a gunsmith. All that will set you apart is the school you attend. Going into business for yourself: You can do it, but you need to work for someone else a few years. This will give you time to actually learn the trade, build up a potential client base, buy the VERY expensive tooling, and find a location to set up shop where there's a good customer base. Go into business as soon as you're out of school, and I can pretty well guarantee you that you'll be broke and out of business in less then two years, if you even last that long. Even when you're good, lucky, and do it all right you have to be prepared to starve for at least a year until you can build up a clientele. During that year or more there's no money coming in but bills pour in. You better be able to eat somehow during that year, and if you're working another job you're not building the business. As an added kick, something like 50% OR MORE of all new businesses go broke, no matter what they are or who owns them. This is simply normal new business attrition. You may do it all right and still bust out. Last of all: The trade can be a very satisfying job and way to make a modest living. You have to be the type that can do GOOD work FAST, and get his enjoyment out of constantly trying to do a perfect job, even though perfection is not to be found. We need gunsmiths, but they need to be good ones, so that's another reason for going to a top school. One way or another the instructors will let you know if you simply don't have the skills or talent and are wasting your time. Lower quality schools will often keep you on just for your money. Choose wisely. Enter this trade with both eyes very wide open. If you're even thinking of going into business you damn well BETTER be taking some business courses. If the school doesn't offer them, go to night school. I know several absolutely Master level watchmakers and gunsmiths who went broke because they knew nothing about running a business. That business stuff is boring and a pain, but you better have it flat down or we'll see you in bankruptcy court. Here's the list of American gunsmith schools. In past years the Colorado School of Trades, and Trinidad Jr. College were the top. School of Trades may have dropped in reputation in the last few years. Don't pick one just because it's close. Colorado School of Trades 1575 Hoyt Street Lakewood, CO 80215 Phone: 800-234-4594 Lassen Community College P.O. Box 3000 Susanville, CA 96130 Phone: 530-257-4211 Modern Gun School 80 North Main Street, P.O. Box 846 St. Albans, VT 05478 Phone: 800-493-4114 Montgomery Community College 1011 Page Street P.O. Box 787 Troy, NC 27371 Phone: 800-839-6222 Murray State College One Murray Campus Tishomingo, OK 73460 Phone: 580-371-2371 Pennsylvania Gunsmith School 812 Ohio River Blvd. Avalon Pittsburgh, PA 15202 Phone: 412-766-1812 Piedmont Community College 1715 College Drive P.O. Box 1197 Roxboro, NC 27573 Phone: 336-599-1181 Pine Technical Institute 900 4th Street Pine City, MN 55063 Phone: 800-521-7463 Trinidad State Jr. College 600 Prospect Trinidad, CO 81082 Phone: 800-621-8752 Yavapai College 1100 East Sheldon Street Prescott, AZ 86301 Phone: 520-776-2150 I appreciate your honesty. Working on guns has been a hobby for quite a while now. I enjoy the tedious work and striving for perfection with everything I work on. I am truly grateful for your insight. It has given me a lot to think on. I can see how it's hard to make it as a gunsmith. In a perfect world, I'd be a billionaire, who opens a shop, and gets to work on guns all day. It looks like if I were to go this route, I need to plan ahead well. Thanks for your insight! |
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Posted: 5/19/2017 9:16:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In order............ As in all jobs there are days it's just a job. Those are also often the "Midas in Reverse" days when everything you touch turns to S**T. You BETTER love it or you'll be out of the trade in a few years. You have to be one of us odd-ball types that get satisfaction from the work itself. I was trained as a watchmaker and became a gunsmith also, specializing in Colt double action revolver work. Of the people I went to watchmaking school with, within 2 years most of those who's family didn't own a jewelry store were out of the trade and doing something else. The same holds for gunsmith school graduates. In a couple of years almost are doing something else. You find work using the school you attend and contacts you make. Often employers visit and the school also will usually offer at least some help locating a job. There's usually a grapevine working about possible jobs available.....pay attention. You start looking hard for a job when you're in the last year of training. The fools wait until close to finishing and have no leads when schools over. Jobs are found working for big shops like a Wilson, or smaller companies, in gun stores, or in industry or even civilian government that uses gunsmiths for research projects. You'd be surprised at what gunsmiths are hired to do for industry and government research, but they usually have lots of experience. A good source >IF< you're good enough and have some experience are the gun companies. You may get employed as a gunsmith doing repairs or as production line worker doing assembly for the gun companies. Production line assembly may not be what you want, but the pay and benefits are usually okay, and you build up experience and a reputation that may be useful other places. Forget working as an armorer for the police. In almost all cases the armorer is a cop or they send the work back to the gun company. Forget working as a gunsmith for the military. Military armorers are better known as "parts switchers". Actual gunsmiths work for marksmanship units, sniper units, and special ops units. These are almost all career military people. Civilians need not apply. People who are self employed often at least try working two jobs, but those almost always either build up a clientele and go full time, or drop the gunsmithing. It's tough to work 8 hours then come home and put in more hours and make any money at it. That also includes doing all the businessman functions in order to stay in business. If you want to do some gun work for yourself an online or correspondent course may help. If you're serious the only options are working as an apprentice or attending a full time attendance school. Very few good gunsmiths can also train others and almost none take on apprentices these days. When they do, YOU pay THEM usually for the training. The only viable option for a real professional is to attend one of the better schools. The good ones have reputations in the industry that will at least get you an interview. Most good schools are at least 2 year full time courses. Cost runs in the thousands of dollars, varies from school to school, but all good ones are very expensive. Additional info............. You better love it for the satisfaction of being a craftsman and doing top level work because you will NOT make much money. An old joke is: "How is a gunsmith and a large pizza alike? Neither can feed a family of 4". NO that's not a joke. A gunsmith who works for himself is NOT a gunsmith. He's a businessman who owns a gunsmithing business. A great deal of his day is talking to potential customers, ordering supplies, listening to dissatisfied customers, and most of all; doing paperwork, mostly for the government. Somewhere in there he tries to do some actual gunsmithing. When you figure in all the hours a self employed gunsmith spends, he's actually working for less then minimum wage. No, that's not a joke either. The only people in the trade who make good money are people like Bill Wilson who owns a big business with other gunsmiths doing the actual work. That's why you better be able to get job satisfaction from the work, because you will NOT own the Rolex, the nice car, the nice house, or take the nice vacations. Working for someone else usually offers decent wages and some benefits. While you spend 8 hours gunsmithing they have to do the paperwork. What school you attend is important. There are a number of them, some have better recognition and reputations in the industry. A "certification" or "degree" is only as valuable as the reputation of the school. As example "certifications" from internet or correspondence courses are a joke in the industry. If you apply for a job with one of these, if you're lucky they won't laugh in your face and will at least wait until you leave before pitching your resume in the trash. No businessman in his right mind will hire a gunsmith with those dubious credentials. Would you hire someone to work on a potentially dangerous and deadly object who got his training on a computer or through the mail? Last, there IS NO real certification as a gunsmith other then the school that gives it. The sole and only qualification you need as a gunsmith is a gunsmithing FFL. The FFL has NO STANDARD or licensing standards for actual skills or knowledge. You don't have to pass any type of skills or knowledge test, and no state has a "Gunsmith License" you need to be in business other then the Federal FFL. Any boob can fire up his printer and print up a "certification" and it has just as much validity as a internet or correspondence certification. Anyone can call himself a gunsmith. All that will set you apart is the school you attend. Going into business for yourself: You can do it, but you need to work for someone else a few years. This will give you time to actually learn the trade, build up a potential client base, buy the VERY expensive tooling, and find a location to set up shop where there's a good customer base. Go into business as soon as you're out of school, and I can pretty well guarantee you that you'll be broke and out of business in less then two years, if you even last that long. Even when you're good, lucky, and do it all right you have to be prepared to starve for at least a year until you can build up a clientele. During that year or more there's no money coming in but bills pour in. You better be able to eat somehow during that year, and if you're working another job you're not building the business. As an added kick, something like 50% OR MORE of all new businesses go broke, no matter what they are or who owns them. This is simply normal new business attrition. You may do it all right and still bust out. Last of all: The trade can be a very satisfying job and way to make a modest living. You have to be the type that can do GOOD work FAST, and get his enjoyment out of constantly trying to do a perfect job, even though perfection is not to be found. We need gunsmiths, but they need to be good ones, so that's another reason for going to a top school. One way or another the instructors will let you know if you simply don't have the skills or talent and are wasting your time. Lower quality schools will often keep you on just for your money. Choose wisely. Enter this trade with both eyes very wide open. If you're even thinking of going into business you damn well BETTER be taking some business courses. If the school doesn't offer them, go to night school. I know several absolutely Master level watchmakers and gunsmiths who went broke because they knew nothing about running a business. That business stuff is boring and a pain, but you better have it flat down or we'll see you in bankruptcy court. Here's the list of American gunsmith schools. In past years the Colorado School of Trades, and Trinidad Jr. College were the top. School of Trades may have dropped in reputation in the last few years. Don't pick one just because it's close. Colorado School of Trades 1575 Hoyt Street Lakewood, CO 80215 Phone: 800-234-4594 Lassen Community College P.O. Box 3000 Susanville, CA 96130 Phone: 530-257-4211 Modern Gun School 80 North Main Street, P.O. Box 846 St. Albans, VT 05478 Phone: 800-493-4114 Montgomery Community College 1011 Page Street P.O. Box 787 Troy, NC 27371 Phone: 800-839-6222 Murray State College One Murray Campus Tishomingo, OK 73460 Phone: 580-371-2371 Pennsylvania Gunsmith School 812 Ohio River Blvd. Avalon Pittsburgh, PA 15202 Phone: 412-766-1812 Piedmont Community College 1715 College Drive P.O. Box 1197 Roxboro, NC 27573 Phone: 336-599-1181 Pine Technical Institute 900 4th Street Pine City, MN 55063 Phone: 800-521-7463 Trinidad State Jr. College 600 Prospect Trinidad, CO 81082 Phone: 800-621-8752 Yavapai College 1100 East Sheldon Street Prescott, AZ 86301 Phone: 520-776-2150 |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 12:24:13 AM EDT
[#7]
I know 3 gunsmiths. One is a plumber, it pays better, he is very talented though. One worked for years as a machinist at a factory until he finally built his skills, name, reputation and niche market to quit the factory. The third builds high end rifles in the 10-15k range. He builds 12-15 a year I think. I am not sure how he got to that phase but I know he started very young learning from another well known smith.
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Posted: 5/23/2017 5:44:53 PM EDT
[#8]
This topic comes up quite often here, and has often been answered well. But never quite so definitively and eloquently as dfariswheels answer above.
I hearby cast my vote for a tack. 
I decided long ago that as much as I love working on guns, I never want to be a full time gunsmith for a living. Too old to start now anyhow. Still tempting to dabble in a little corner I like after I retire though. I love restoring junkers that everyone else has given up on. |
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