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Posted: 7/16/2016 8:26:34 PM EDT
[#1]
Something that would etch aluminum. Not any of the cheap things out there for around $200. I have looked and a good one is at least $700 and up.
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Posted: 7/16/2016 8:40:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Look into electrochemical etching. Now, for an AR lower this will only work so long as it's not anodized yet (don't know if you're doing 80% lowers or not). If you are using already finished/anodized lowers, then yeah, laser is your best option.
I haven't finished the whole video yet (hence the teaser) but it should give you a good idea as to how nice the etched can turn out. Also, the video shows me using a steel AK receiver, but the process actually works even better on aluminum: 
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Posted: 7/16/2016 10:01:09 PM EDT
[#3]
I used to run a Baasel 60Watt Nd-YAg laser system water cooled , even the control computer was water cooled - so believe me when I say these beast use power. Ours had a minimum idle power of 24 KVa on 230V 3ph
Now days you can get a decent starter sealed CO2 tube table top system for about $5000 FOB China and shipping insurance and customs fees will add plenty more. Cheaper systems can be had - better deal if the company has a US stocking distributer. Otherwise I would say - Pay less = Cry More. You won't be happy with the results of lower cost/quality systems or the units that do seem to work well seem to be pushing the limits and have shorter service life before requiring a major refit. ( new power supply, laser tube, mirrors, and maybe lenses it they have become pitted.) My Uncle is heading to the next IMTS to shop for a new laser system. |
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Posted: 7/16/2016 10:57:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I used to run a Baasel 60Watt Nd-YAg laser system water cooled , even the control computer was water cooled - so believe me when I say these beast use power. Ours had a minimum idle power of 24 KVa on 230V 3ph Now days you can get a decent starter sealed CO2 tube table top system for about $5000 FOB China and shipping insurance and customs fees will add plenty more. Cheaper systems can be had - better deal if the company has a US stocking distributer. Otherwise I would say - Pay less = Cry More. You won't be happy with the results of lower cost/quality systems or the units that do seem to work well seem to be pushing the limits and have shorter service life before requiring a major refit. ( new power supply, laser tube, mirrors, and maybe lenses it they have become pitted.) My Uncle is heading to the next IMTS to shop for a new laser system. I'm looking at Boss or Epilog machines, both US made, both ~$5-7k. I'm just exploring doing a start up and lasing more than just firearms. It's amazing the caliber of the work I'm seeing. It appears that these machines will etch about anything a person can draw on CorelDraw on damn near any non-reflective surface. What's IMTS? Machine tool show?
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Posted: 7/17/2016 7:45:54 AM EDT
[#5]
International Manufacturing Technology Show 2016 September 12 - 17, 2016 McCormick Place Chicago, IL.
Largest tool show in the western hemisphere, so large it is only done on even ended years as it needs 2 years to prepare for the next one. I hear good things about Epilog, though I have not taken any time to look into it myself recently. I just bought a CNC turning center in Feb, and now I am buying MiG and Tig machines. Power company came out last Thurs and upgraded our transformer by 250%. If our .gov or a coalition of governments were to address the way the Chicom manipulate the currency exchange rate I think that a lot more manufacturing work would stay domestic. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 6:30:29 PM EDT
[#6]
K40 lasers, sold on Ebay for under 400 dollars shipped. It's not a perfect laser by any means but it works. It's not going to engrave aluminum but you can cut vinyl masks to do electro etch with (or if there are better coating you can put on the aluminum before etch).
Anodized surfaces can be engraved directly. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 1:10:47 AM EDT
[#7]
Just keep in mind that for a firearm serial number, the depth of it has to be .003" or deeper.
Granted that prices are coming down, but it still expensive to pick up a engraver if you need to burn steel down this far instead. Hence most of the time, a CNC engraver does the needed job, and the machine is a lot cheaper when you start adding in a 4th axis for rotation work. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 3:48:03 AM EDT
[#8]
If this is for homemade actions or receiver it doesn't really matter, since there is no requirement for a serial number.
But for anything else electro etching will take care of any possible requirement since it will etch deep enough. |
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Posted: 7/25/2016 2:21:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Etching vs engraving, etching is essentially removing finish and exposing bare metal, only down to the depth of the finish, where as engraving creates depth. Most of the CO2 lasers on the market are in the 40W range, you can buy ones with bigger tubes, or retrofit. 40W will not engrave aluminum, but will etch it, be it through paint, anodizing, powder coating, etc. That will not meet the ATF specifications for depth of engraving.
Below is a piece of wood that was engraved and filled in with paint, and a piece of powdercoated sheet aluminum etched. 
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Posted: 7/25/2016 3:12:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look into electrochemical etching. Now, for an AR lower this will only work so long as it's not anodized yet (don't know if you're doing 80% lowers or not). If you are using already finished/anodized lowers, then yeah, laser is your best option. I haven't finished the whole video yet (hence the teaser) but it should give you a good idea as to how nice the etched can turn out. Also, the video shows me using a steel AK receiver, but the process actually works even better on aluminum:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhukkGyTSNwCould you scrape a little anodizing off in a hard to see area, then reblacken the part to make it work? |
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Posted: 7/25/2016 5:44:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Anodized coating is nonconductive so it will do absolutely nothing when you attempt to etch it. What you can try is use a laser to burn off the anodizing (I don't know the power needed to do this, normally laser just turns the coating white) and then just try to electro etch it. The anodized coating will not conduct and will not be etched. Or else you will have to selectively remove the anodized coating by pouring lye over the mask, and then etch.
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Posted: 7/26/2016 8:28:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Etching vs engraving, etching is essentially removing finish and exposing bare metal, only down to the depth of the finish[/url] My etches are definitely deeper than the finish depth. I've etched straight through a scrap piece of AK receiver (1mm) once. Definitely well within the ATF depth: 
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Posted: 7/26/2016 8:49:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My etches are definitely deeper than the finish depth. I've etched straight through a scrap piece of AK receiver (1mm) once. Definitely well within the ATF depth: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/AEnemaBay/Sales/IMG_5148Large_zps9cff10f4.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Etching vs engraving, etching is essentially removing finish and exposing bare metal, only down to the depth of the finish[/url] My etches are definitely deeper than the finish depth. I've etched straight through a scrap piece of AK receiver (1mm) once. Definitely well within the ATF depth: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/AEnemaBay/Sales/IMG_5148Large_zps9cff10f4.jpg Yes, but if your etches are electro-etching (as mentioned above) and not laser, we're not only in different pews, but also in different churches and denominations. http://www.permanentmarking.com/what-are-the-differences-between-laser-marking-laser-engraving-and-laser-etching/ |
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Posted: 7/26/2016 10:17:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, but if your etches are electro-etching (as mentioned above) and not laser, we're not only in different pews, but also in different churches and denominations. http://www.permanentmarking.com/what-are-the-differences-between-laser-marking-laser-engraving-and-laser-etching/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Etching vs engraving, etching is essentially removing finish and exposing bare metal, only down to the depth of the finish[/url] My etches are definitely deeper than the finish depth. I've etched straight through a scrap piece of AK receiver (1mm) once. Definitely well within the ATF depth: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/AEnemaBay/Sales/IMG_5148Large_zps9cff10f4.jpg Yes, but if your etches are electro-etching (as mentioned above) and not laser, we're not only in different pews, but also in different churches and denominations. http://www.permanentmarking.com/what-are-the-differences-between-laser-marking-laser-engraving-and-laser-etching/ Ahh, I see now what you're saying. I've always just assumed that a laser that etches also engraves. Laser systems have always been outside my price range so I never really studied up on them. |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 11:36:03 AM EDT
[#15]
You can get a K40 laser, less than 400 dollars delivered. It can engrave anodized metal, plastic, or cut vinyl sheets to allow you to etch later. If only I can find a good paint I can put directly on aluminum, then I can just engrave the paint off and then etch.
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Posted: 7/27/2016 4:24:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can get a K40 laser, less than 400 dollars delivered. It can engrave anodized metal, plastic, or cut vinyl sheets to allow you to etch later. If only I can find a good paint I can put directly on aluminum, then I can just engrave the paint off and then etch. VHT flat black header paint - will resist till the last second. (rattle can at your better auto parts stores) Chances are if your laser can burn through the color skin of the anodize, then swab the area with NaOH ( Sodium Hydroxide ) that should break through enough of the anodize and Aluminum Oxide that the surface is now conductive enough for electro chem etch. ( Rinse very well in plane water after NaOH.) The really nice thing about this method is that the remaining anodize acts as your stencil. I would beta test on a HF $1 or free flashlight not a good receiver. 
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Posted: 7/27/2016 6:25:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
VHT flat black header paint - will resist till the last second. (rattle can at your better auto parts stores) Chances are if your laser can burn through the color skin of the anodize, then swab the area with NaOH ( Sodium Hydroxide ) that should break through enough of the anodize and Aluminum Oxide that the surface is now conductive enough for electro chem etch. ( Rinse very well in plane water after NaOH.) The really nice thing about this method is that the remaining anodize acts as your stencil. I would beta test on a HF $1 or free flashlight not a good receiver. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You can get a K40 laser, less than 400 dollars delivered. It can engrave anodized metal, plastic, or cut vinyl sheets to allow you to etch later. If only I can find a good paint I can put directly on aluminum, then I can just engrave the paint off and then etch. VHT flat black header paint - will resist till the last second. (rattle can at your better auto parts stores) Chances are if your laser can burn through the color skin of the anodize, then swab the area with NaOH ( Sodium Hydroxide ) that should break through enough of the anodize and Aluminum Oxide that the surface is now conductive enough for electro chem etch. ( Rinse very well in plane water after NaOH.) The really nice thing about this method is that the remaining anodize acts as your stencil. I would beta test on a HF $1 or free flashlight not a good receiver. I'll give it a shot here at some point when I get some time, hell, might even try it on an Anderson receiver, maybe on the grip tang. |
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