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Posted: 9/25/2015 5:09:52 PM EDT
I'm interested in getting a wheelgun that needs some TLC and repairing or tuning it.

Are there any models or makes I should be looking out for which are easier to work or learn on? Something with more room for error? Good aftermarket support for parts, jigs, manuals, and advice?
Link Posted: 9/25/2015 5:24:44 PM EDT
[#1]
S&W is the best bet.
There's plenty of parts available, and Brownell's sell most of the gunsmithing tools.
The Jerry Kuhnhausen Shop Manual on the S&W revolvers is the best source of deep detail on gunsmithing the S&W.
The shop manual was written as a training aid for new gunsmith students and covers all S&W pistolsmithing in deep detail and does so to factory standards.
You won't find the usual Billy Bob heating and bending or soldering in the manual.
Buy it from Brownell's too.

Most any S&W "K" frame model would be perfect.  It would be best to get one made between the early 1960's and the early 2000's.
You should be able to find a S&W "K" frame like a Model 10 easily.
Link Posted: 9/26/2015 6:46:24 AM EDT
[#2]
As above, S&W are great to work on since replacement parts are easy to get, and they take well to fine tuning.



However Smiths are not cheap, and if you're budget minded and/or want to try making parts from scratch, you might look at old H&R and Iver Johnson pocket revolvers that can be had for well under $100.
Link Posted: 9/28/2015 9:05:27 AM EDT
[#3]
I think I'm a long way from making parts!

What I'm hoping to score is a good brand revolver that needs some TLC. Maybe replace a work pawl or some springs. Install good modern sights. Nothing really complicated, but I do want to be comfortable taking a side plate off and changing springs.
Link Posted: 9/28/2015 1:57:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Start with a single action, simpler mechanism and easier to understand and get a concept of timing, relationships of components, lock up etc.
Learn it and a DA will be that much easier.
Link Posted: 9/29/2015 12:30:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 9/29/2015 6:53:10 PM EDT
[#6]
S&W got it right the first time. Colt Python actions are tougher and only a very few can work on it.  Colt Trooper actions work like the S&W. Ditto with the  Security Six.
Link Posted: 9/30/2015 10:25:58 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Your chasing a pipe dream.  
By the time that springs need to be replaced on most quality revolvers, then BC gap in in the .014" + range, and your looking at least a barrel set back to start with.

So always before you start screwing with other parts, you need to get the Barrel-cylinder gap back down to around .006", then you can address to the other needed parts next.   Hence with a BC gap of .016",  the cylinder is moving forward at least .010" and the reason that the pawn and other parts are out of timing to begin with.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think I'm a long way from making parts!

What I'm hoping to score is a good brand revolver that needs some TLC. Maybe replace a work pawl or some springs. Install good modern sights. Nothing really complicated, but I do want to be comfortable taking a side plate off and changing springs.



Your chasing a pipe dream.  
By the time that springs need to be replaced on most quality revolvers, then BC gap in in the .014" + range, and your looking at least a barrel set back to start with.

So always before you start screwing with other parts, you need to get the Barrel-cylinder gap back down to around .006", then you can address to the other needed parts next.   Hence with a BC gap of .016",  the cylinder is moving forward at least .010" and the reason that the pawn and other parts are out of timing to begin with.


I hadn't thought of that, but it makes perfect sense.

Link Posted: 10/2/2015 3:31:21 PM EDT
[#8]
BTW, you should attend a NRA summer revolver class.  I learned a lot (1984) in the Basic LE Armorer School taught by Jack Preston (dec) of Pasadena PD.  Jack later went on to teach at TSJC.  Jack taught us how to work on S&W and Ruger revolvers.  Not so with Pythons but I learned that from Bob Dunlap (presently with AGI) and Keith Gipson (TSJC).
Link Posted: 10/9/2015 11:39:07 AM EDT
[#9]
I was going to say Ruger.

1. Lots of parts available from many sources.
2. Lots of documentation, including videos
3. Several 'smiths work on them
4. Ruger service is always a backstop when things get out of hand
5. Rugers are inexpensive, so when you screw the gun up, you're out less money
6. Robust designs that respond well to tuning, polishing, fitting, and alteration
Link Posted: 10/9/2015 12:11:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Thanks for the advice.

I'm taking an inventory to try and sell or trade some stuff I don't shoot to kickstart this project. I'm doing my homework on Smiths and keeping an eye out for an SP-101 or a Security Six from Ruger.
Link Posted: 10/20/2015 2:17:22 PM EDT
[#11]
I ended up with a Model 66-4.

A day after getting it I was running a match and managed to lock it up! My friend who is a gunsmith worked on it and suggested that my thumbs-forward grip was dragging the cylinder. He has checked the timing and is going to teach me how to check timing.

The gun is a round butt but has square butt grips, so I'll do some tinkering and either replace those or fill in the gap with something.

Pretty happy with what I got. It doesn't exactly need work but it is a common model and should let me have fun shooting it and upgrading it as I see fit.

Thanks for the advice everyone!

EDIT - Also found out my brother has a Uberti single-action that he claims to not be able to get parts for. I think he's wrong and will probably buy that to satisfy my desire for a total rebuild.
Link Posted: 10/27/2015 11:43:52 AM EDT
[#12]
Well the adventure continues.

Very little end play in this gun but it can be forced out of time with a bit of cylinder drag and it has a hair too much side play. Its shootable but I think I needs a new cylinder stop and maybe a new hand.

I've been watching the Midway video on replacing the hand and reading up on replacing the stop. I'm starting to feel confident that I can do this. It seems to be a matter of having decent stones, maintaining angles, and going SLOWLY and test fitting often.

Thoughts, advice, and warnings would be welcome!
Link Posted: 10/27/2015 2:25:03 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 10/27/2015 5:43:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well the adventure continues.

Very little end play in this gun but it can be forced out of time with a bit of cylinder drag and it has a hair too much side play. Its shootable but I think I needs a new cylinder stop and maybe a new hand.

I've been watching the Midway video on replacing the hand and reading up on replacing the stop. I'm starting to feel confident that I can do this. It seems to be a matter of having decent stones, maintaining angles, and going SLOWLY and test fitting often.

Thoughts, advice, and warnings would be welcome!
View Quote


You should still buy the Jerry Kuhnhausen Shop Manual on the S&W revolvers.
It explains a lot you may not suspect.
One thing you need to know is that the S&W design, like most other brands except the old style Colt action, REQUIRE that the cylinder have rotational movement at ignition.

In other words, if you pull the trigger and hold it back while checking for cylinder movement the S&W MUST have some movement.
Only the old Colt's like the Python lock up tight when the trigger is pulled.
Checking the S&W, Ruger, Dan Wesson, or newer Colt's like the Mark III and later, holding the trigger back and checking the cylinder IS NOT A VALID TEST FOR ANYTHING.

The way most DA revolvers are designed to operate is when the trigger is pulled the slightly loose cylinder will allow the bullet passing from the chamber to the barrel to force the chamber into alignment.
If you set up the gun with zero cylinder looseness the bullet will hit the forcing cone off-center and you'll get bad accuracy and bullet metal spiting out the sides.

While some revolvers will seem to be tightly locked there's enough backlash built into the action to allow enough cylinder movement for proper operation.

People ask what the factory standard is for cylinder looseness.
There really isn't one.
The standard and the test for correct operation is if the gun is shooting accurately and isn't spitting bullet metal.... it's good.  
Some guns will have more or less cylinder movement but that's not any kind of issue as long as the gun shoots correctly.

So, if you're planning on installing a new cylinder bolt and get a nice tightly locked cylinder, you're actually causing the gun to not work correctly AS DESIGNED.
Link Posted: 10/27/2015 6:02:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Smith & Wesson's, Ruger, and the later Mk III & Mk V Colt's are all very easy to work on.  Although there are differences, the principles are all the same in regards to cylinder lock up, and action.  The Kunhausen books are THE place to start.  Stay away from the old style Colt DA revolvers for now, they are a completely different animal that very few people these days understand (although seems like dfariswheel gets it).  But I've seen the so-called "Colt Experts" wrongly describe timing on a Colt DA revolver.  But the Colt Mk III & V revolvers do their timing just like a S&W or Ruger.  

Smith & Wessons are by far the easiest.
Link Posted: 10/27/2015 9:02:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

You should still buy the Jerry Kuhnhausen Shop Manual on the S&W revolvers.
It explains a lot you may not suspect.
One thing you need to know is that the S&W design, like most other brands except the old style Colt action, REQUIRE that the cylinder have rotational movement at ignition.

In other words, if you pull the trigger and hold it back while checking for cylinder movement the S&W MUST have some movement.
Only the old Colt's like the Python lock up tight when the trigger is pulled.
Checking the S&W, Ruger, Dan Wesson, or newer Colt's like the Mark III and later, holding the trigger back and checking the cylinder IS NOT A VALID TEST FOR ANYTHING.

The way most DA revolvers are designed to operate is when the trigger is pulled the slightly loose cylinder will allow the bullet passing from the chamber to the barrel to force the chamber into alignment.
If you set up the gun with zero cylinder looseness the bullet will hit the forcing cone off-center and you'll get bad accuracy and bullet metal spiting out the sides.

While some revolvers will seem to be tightly locked there's enough backlash built into the action to allow enough cylinder movement for proper operation.

People ask what the factory standard is for cylinder looseness.
There really isn't one.
The standard and the test for correct operation is if the gun is shooting accurately and isn't spitting bullet metal.... it's good.  
Some guns will have more or less cylinder movement but that's not any kind of issue as long as the gun shoots correctly.

So, if you're planning on installing a new cylinder bolt and get a nice tightly locked cylinder, you're actually causing the gun to not work correctly AS DESIGNED.
View Quote


The Kuhnhausen book is in my shopping cart already.

I see what you're saying. It definitely is NOT obvious from looking at the gun and some how-to videos that a bit of play is acceptable.
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