So I have a scorpion with some upgrades ...(charging handle, trigger,trigger spring, mag release, blade)..... about to take the plunge and trade for a gen 2 fde 9mm kriss vector with a brace.


Will I regret this? :-(

Yes.

Don't do that. You'll regret it; the Scorpion is a better firearm in pretty much every way.

Trading away a scorpion.... Blasphemy

I know the scorpion is a fun and good gun.

But why is it better than the kriss? or is it even better?

for those that have the Kriss gen 2 ..... have you had any issues with it?

Subgun designed and put into service w/ readily available mags that don't cost an arm and a leg, with a proven action vs. a toy with complicated action feeding from non-dedicated mags (limited feed design) with a huge chunky profile with lower/upper that flex/seperate under firing, a crappy stock, and in comparison, minimal aftermarket support.

Uncommon things are uncommon for a reason - but if you want to do it, go for it - if you want to save the headaches, stick with a proven design.  

That said - the only PCC I'd trade my scorpion carbine for is a Sig MPX - if they ever make it reliable long term, and the mag prices drop like a rock.  Goes back to the whole proven & cost effective thing.

Attached File

Disclaimer: I have not shot a Scorpion! But I do like CZ alot and think they make incredible pistols as I'm sure the Scorpion is as well.

I recently picked up a Gen 2 10mm Vector and have only fired 500 rounds through it in its first outing, but it was excellent. Better than I expected, and not a single hiccup. The red dot fell back to the original point of aim naturally after the recoil impulse, which is different than anything I'd felt. Don't get me wrong, it"s not magic and there's still recoil but it is different. I shot very good groups with it at a pretty brisk cadence at 25 yards.


As far as longevity I can't give personal experience yet, but aside from the first generation of Vectors I don't hear much negativity or see many for sale.

http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/why-i-dont-like-the-kriss-vector/

Food for thought.

Also - for longevity, heavy mass w/ spring = durable.  Toggles, force vectoring, and motion on 2 axi = less durable

Here's a comparison I wrote a year or so ago.  Just my $0.02.

https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/47dev1/scorpion_vs_vector/

An update to the comparison:

I did have more mags crack with the Scorpion, however now mags can be found with metal feed lips. I also got an Apex grip for it.  

The Vector did have quite a few problems with FTEs and FTFs. I think I tracked those issues down to being mag related though.  Comparing all the mags to one another showed that the bullet angle varied greatly between them and if the mag was worn and the bullets pointed slightly down then the gun would jam.  Also added a Fortis Shift to it to help with the ergonomics slightly.  It's still not great though.

In the end, I got an MP-5k and now I don't mess with either of them.

I'm actually going to come out of lurker status and comment on this.

I bought a Kriss 45 around the same time I got a Scorpion 9mm. I WANTED to love the scorpion, it represented everything I wanted in a PCC.

Until I shot it.

I found that it was just another blowback 9mm, which did nothing better than my 9mm AR, and in some ways even reminded me of my Sub2000 (this statement is going to infuriate some scorpion lovers, and for their fragility I apologize!).

It is not as accurate as the Kriss, it takes a proprietary mag, and it is in the end a (very nice) blowback gun.

I found the Kriss to be more accurate, more reliable (however I am merely speaking to the first 500 rounds through each gun), and although it has its own manual of arms, it's not a conglomeration of different systems, which is how I would describe the scorpion.

I recognize that the Kriss is a blowback too, however I found that the mechanism does mitigate recoil, and I was able to make repeated accurate follow up shots at a more confident level than with the scorpion.

I quickly traded my scorpion for a Kriss in 9mm, which is my current favorite 9mm PCC.

I also found that the Kriss 9 is everything that the 45 was, just in 9mm caliber.  

In addition, my friend kept his scorpion, and we found that the Kriss suppresses better than the scorpion does (for those who care)

End thoughts:
These were simply my thoughts on the matter that OP queried.
I'm a Glock guy, so mag interchangeability does factor into my end decision (exculpatory info for people who want to know if I was possibly swayed)
I never said that I didn't like the scorpion. I frothed for it for years and was one of the first owners of the FDE flavor, this was gonna be MY PCC...
Now, I'm saying that I don't like the scorpion because I own a Kriss.

I'm not a big poster on such things as opinion, however I have owned both, I now own two Kriss Vectors and no CZ scorpions.

DO IT!!!

Add suppressor and you have a very nice package.

The bolt pivots as it slides back, but the mass of the bolt carrier group, the guide and spring are on a single axis.

I shoot my vector SBR' s more than my scorpion SBR.  

Both are good guns but I just like the vectors better suppressed.

Do the trade,  you can always buy another CZ later if you have funds and the itch.

Yep...supressed Kriss feels great.

That's 2 axi homie :)

I own both and also prefer the Kriss. I really like CZ's and own 6 of them. The cz is a good gun for the money and I would recommend it. Its just not better than the Kriss imo. I think many who knock the Vector either haven't shot one or shot their buddies once to prove they didn't like it. I wouldn't pick either of these guns to go into a shtf scenario as I have many better options so as a fun gun the vector wins out easily for me.

So does the force of the bolt rotating in an AR15 twist the rifle out of your hands?

I own an sbr Scorpion. One of my favorites
Was looking at a kriss vector 9mm pistol
because I wanted another pistol caliber carbine. In the end I went with the Zenith Z5K. Decision came down to loving how the roller delayed blowback style weapons shoot.

I might check out a vector next year.

I own both as sbrs.

I would not trade my Scorpion for my Kriss in 9mm.

For one, my CZ has been dead nuts reliable. I cannot say the same for my Kriss.

Also, the Kriss sucks in dealing with malfunctions. Clearing a jam is not a fast procedure. The CZ seems to be easier, but I can't say for sure because I've never had a malfunction/jam.


For th record I also have a Kriss .45 sbr and 10mm pistol, they have been very reliable.

Keep the Scorpion, end of thread.