Looking at getting a pistol in 9mm that I will SBR and suppress. Which one would you go with and Why? Discuss

Scorpion has best price it seems and most proven with very few cons.  

The MPX has been a mixed bag between the gen1 vs gen 2 bait and switch Sig pulled

The AR 9 allows for more customization IMO but can vary in price and reliability.  

That being said I am building an AR-9 to make it my own and spread the overall price out on my budget.

Sig mpx has same Features as an ar15.  Grip and safety suck on cz.  If you get a chance, compare them side by side.  Or, get both?

Have the SIG and the CZ, CZ wins, AR9 no folding stock. EVO has aftermarket grips and safety choices as well as safety delete for right hand shooters.

AR-9 is If the gun is going to be 5.56 size, give me 5.56

MPX Gen 2 is sweet but bad move by Sig with that crisis. Trust in company definitely tainted

CZ Scorpion is most proven but MIA right now in market. Not as nice as MPX but almost half the price


Really it's a toss up between the last two because they both have different flaws.

Can you explain to me a bit more about the "crisis"

I second this! What "crisis"?!

Maybe crisis isn't the best term and instead throwing customers under the boat. Not to derail this thread but plenty of users pissed about Sig releasing a Gen 2 six months after the release of a product that took almost 3 years to bring to market and was touted as multi caliber, just for 6 months later to release a Gen 2 where only Gen 2 is multi caliber.

I have a Gen 2 and say buy with caution. Who knows with Sig

Ok. That is actually some they said they would do.
To get the gun to market, the first generation will not have the switch caliber ability.
When they get the switch caliber perfected they will release gen 2.

I think i have the interview with them saying that still.

Most people wont remember that because this was around the time they were having the battle with the
ATF over the MPX-C.

Not the video mentioned above BUT its worth watching with the whole Gen 1 vs Gen 2 type thing.

I'm not going to derail this any further but they definitely DID NOT make this clear. In fact, I can't find a single video dated before the release that stated this. Visit the forums, many pissed off customers. And most importantly, they should have just waited the 6 more months and brought the right product to market. Now there are two different Gen mags on a new product

Cz for price , mpx over Ar9 cause they are turds and mp5 for the gold standard

One of the guys on Full30 (Firearm YT) did a comparison test between the MPX and the CZ...CZ won.

I have the CZ and I am very happy with it; other 9mm is an AR.

I never said videos. Interviews. There were several interviews.
Look for the ones around and about the MPX-C.

Plus, why would people complain?
If you want the caliber exchange for the first gen MPX, Sig will send you an entire new upper for free.

At first I thought Sig was terrible for this whole gen 1 and gen 2 business. But if you watch that video above they make it right and its not that big of a deal. MANY parts are interchangeable in 9mm.

Short version...


MP5 is still the king, for performance. Not at all on price.

9mm AR's aren't great, there just isn't a way to make them run right in the amount of room you have.

MPX IS A 9mm AR. SIG really dropped the ball on a lot of things, the gas system being #1 imo. But they did nail the styling. Prices are stupid. Wait for the Gen3 at least.

CZ is an Uzi AK made to look like a G36... How could anyone hate on that!? :)  It's very good gun, simple, cheap, sets the current standard for price/performance.

Get a CZ. I was thinking this awhile ago, then got the EVO and SBR'd it. Very fun and accurate SBR, and not at all that expensive. AR9 still has that buffer tube, MPX is almost to a price of an mp5.

MKEZ5P

I like my z5p better than the Evo but it costs 2x as much. I'm glad I got it over the mpx tho

I had decided on the CZ Evo because it seems like the better deal vs. the SIg (even though I prefer the Sig).  I might be changing my mind though, now the the Scorpion is not available (who knows when it will be again).  The MPX is available for $1,300.  I figure that adding the Lage side folder to the MPX plus three mags gets me to $1,605.  I'm guessing that the CZ gen 2 will be about $900 for awhile after they come in.  Adding the 922 compliance kit/stock, three mags, a Yeti grip, and a suppressor mount gets me to about $1,300.  For only a $300 difference (to get each set-up the way that I want), I might spring for the MPX instead of taking my chances with seeing which comes first: CZ or 41p.

Scorpion. I don't like AR's, particularly in 9mm. The MPX is nothing more than an over complicated AR wannabe sold to people who don't know that 9mm doesn't need a piston system. Also Sig rifles are pretty bad in general, and the MPX is no different.

Get an MP5 clone. It will suppress better than anything you mentioned and is a better overall product than any of them as well. Assuming you get a decent model and not a Coharie or something.

I own a cz and I am looking to get an mpx in the next few days. I feel that bought are well made and had a lot of thought put in to them, now while the cz has smaller hiccups than the mpx I don't feel you would be missing out of anything with the mpx, cz, or both. The 9mm ar that I fired I had a great time with and was more accurate than I thought I could be. Gas is more of an issue with the ar-9 than the cz, but the biggest thing is the ability to change barrels with little effort with the upper system of the at-9 and the quick change system on the mpx. The reason I like this is the ability to switch from pistol to rifle so I can ccw it when I travel, and rifle so I can use it at indoor range and introduced new shooters.

Scorpion, price point, and mags are cheaper and more available. Two reasons enough for me.

Once they are available again, you might just want to go w/ the rifle version($999 msrp) if your plan is to SBR it anyway. No 922 parts issues, no need to buy the stock - just swap the barrel, and you get the longer handguard. I still may go w/ an AR 9mm for now, but eventually I might want the CZ and that's what I would do (once we're able to SBR again in WA).

CZ Scorpion Evo = $850
ATF Form-1 = $200
922r Kit = $200
----------------------------

$1250.00

And $30 to engrave it. Then enjoy a lot of fun with readily available $20 mags.

 

#1 it's not just another AR15 clone.  Does not take AR15 mags and wont allow an AR15 Grip.


#2 See #1

I've been in the same boat. I want to like the MPX... well, I DO like it. I got to handle an SBR one at my Class 3 dealer when I picked up my first (and currently only can), and it was sex. It's a neat gun... but the price and the extremely costly mags are a huge detractor. Plus the potential to gas the face when shooting suppressed, which I intend to do almost exclusively with whatever PCC I end up getting.

So the Scorpion carbine is at the top of my list. Better for suppressed fire, cheap mags, less expensive to start off... plus I like CZ anyway!  

The negatives would be the safety lever and possibly the pistol grip. I haven't gotten my hands on one yet, but both of those things can be resolved easily.

I'd also kicked around the idea of the Jard J67, just to be different... and the fact that it wouldn't need to be SBR'd... but it is ugly. If I were heavily into Glocks, the magazine situation would weigh in for that carbine, but I have no Glocks at this time.

So I'll likely just order a Scorpion carbine as soon as they are available, drop $200 on mags and SBR as soon as I can. One thing I haven't read about yet, the carbine version (without the faux suppressor) has a screw on brake... what threading is under it? Would be nice if I could slap my can right on it right away while the SBR stuff processes.

IIRC, all the new ones will have 1/2 x28..............

Oh, I know the new pistols will have 1/2x28, I'm talking about the 16.2" carbine version. It has what looks like a screw on brake. I'd expect it will have 1/2x28 threads, but haven't seen any info verifying this.

Won't matter for too long to me, because I'll either cut down or replace the barrel with a pistol-length barrel. It would just be nice to throw my can on it right out of the box!  (although a 16" PCC with an 8" can on the front... yeah... SBR will have to be done quick!)

I've tried to find that out, but only read where people have posted that the threads will be standard. I am interested in the carbine as well, but the one with the faux suppressor, making it easy to have a cut barrel already once I get a stamp

So the fauxpressor is (semi) permanently attached to a short barrel? I haven't seen enough about the carbines to know. If it's not super difficult to remove and has some standard threading (1/2x28), that might be more appealing to me. Of course going that route, I wouldn't be able to slap my can on it out of the box... I'd have to wait to SBR it. Not an impossible task, tho!

So the fauxpressor is (semi) permanently attached to a short barrel? I haven't seen enough about the carbines to know. If it's not super difficult to remove and has some standard threading (1/2x28), that might be more appealing to me. Of course going that route, I wouldn't be able to slap my can on it out of the box... I'd have to wait to SBR it. Not an impossible task, tho!


I asked that same question on somebody's Facebook page, can't remember whos it was, that was looking at them at Shot Show.

They replied that it was a long barrel with a sleeve because the way the handguard attaches, there is no way to pin the suppressor to the barrel and install the handguard.

Once you change it from a rifle to a pistol, you can't go back...

 


You cant make a rifle a pistol unless you go SBR. But even then its not a pistol.




You CAN make a pistol into a rifle and go back.  But you have to use a 16"+ Barrel.






 

Agreed.

You lost me with this.  If it starts out as a pistol and you turn it into a Title II SBR (let's say 7.5" barrel), doesn't taking off the stock and putting a pistol buffer tube (leaving 7.5" upper attached) just return it to a standard, Title I pistol?

Likewise, I thought that if you turn it into a Title I rifle by replacing the 7.5" with a 16" upper and adding a stock, you could put the pistol tube and 7.5" back on and be back to Title I (?)

I've only gone one direction in this process, haven't reversed it.








If money is a factor, it seems like the PSA build would be the go-to option at about $400 less.  If you factor in magazine cost, if you get a Glock lower and already have Glock mags, the scales tip even further toward the AR9.  

Do the CZ mags work with anything else, or are they just for the Scorpion Evo?  Glock mags have built a pretty good reputation over the years, no?  They are certainly easy to find and aren't going away and factory mags can be found for cheap, Korean mags even cheaper.  If the CZ falls out of favor or whatever, I can see magazine supplies drying up and prices going up.  I'm having a similar internal debate and would hate to have to add a bunch of new goofy-shaped magazines that only work with one gun to the collection.

I feel like I've responded to a post like this before... Anyway, I own an MPx SBR, a CZ Scorpion SBR and three AR-9s (one PSA, the other two are New Frontier hybrids), as well as several other PCCs (Uzi, B&T TP9 (x2), P26, APC, Z5P, PS90, MPA930DMG, Uzi Pro (x2)...etc...) so I feel like I have a decent basis to respond from experience. I will offer the following in the form of a pro/con list:

MPX:

PROS:
1. ergonomic
2. well built
3. suppresses well
4. reliable
5. AR trigger compatibility
6. excellent mags
7. Good BUIS
8. aesthetics
9. suppresses REALLY well due to delayed blowback

CONS:
1. pricey ($1200 + $250 for the stock + $200 stamp + engraving + $$$mags)
2. Heavy
3. Sig seems to be releasing updated models
4. did I mention expensive mags?
5. Blowback with suppressor use (lower-volume suppressors are worse)(note: doesn't bother me)
6. Stupid AR charging handle (proprietary, BTW)

CZ Scorpion

PROS:
1. reliable
2. economical ($750 +$200 922r Kit + $200 Stamp + engraving)
3. Decent mags, excellent price
4. suppresses REALLY well due to heavy bolt
5. MP5-like charging handle
6. lightweight
7. growing aftermarket support
8. excellent BUIS

CONS:
1. safety lever can bite you
2. polymer construction/clamshell design pisses some off
3. hard to sling; no QD
4. Funky thread pitch (adapters readily available, 2nd gen will have 1/2x28)
5. aesthetics (I dig it, others hate it).  

AR9

PROS
1. looks cool
2. feeds from Glock mags (or Colt SMG mags, if that's your preference)
3. exceedingly simple design
4. AR Trigger (yay!)
5. familiar ergos
6. Excellent aftermarket support
7. Cheap, cheap, cheap (my first AR9 was a blem lower and an Alpha Machining upper/bolt - total cost, excluding BUIS, was $550).  
8. Can build as a side charger
9. easy to build

CONS:
1. Finicky (must time the bolt using appropriately weighted spring and buffer weight)
2. Gassy when suppressed
3. louder than MPX and CZ due to port noise and noise associated with the buffer spring
4. Last Round Bolt Hold often fails
5. Not as compact as MPX or CZ due to the receiver extension

I had the same thought last year and went with the EVO, and couldn't be happier. I'm currently building an AR9, because I like building my own(they can get expensive when you upgrade everything). I was thinking about adding a MPX to the mix, but with the cost of mags I'd rather have a MKE Z5-P if I were going to spend that type of money.

Since you have all of the top PCC's, what is your top 3 and which ones make the best suppressor host?

Top 3 (in no particular order) - Uzi Model A, APC-9 and the CZ Scorpion. MPX and TP-9 are tied for 4th for me. I love the Uzi because it's simple, reliable and robust...it also suppresses very well - sounds like a staple gun. Best suppressor host is either the Z5P or Scorpion.  It's hard to beat roller delayed blowback for suppression. Honestly, they're all fun and suppress pretty well. The bottom of the list would be the AR-9 just due to parts variance and port/spring noise (though this may be mitigated with a JP silent buffer). When asked, I just can't help but recommend the Scorpion if you're only going to buy one.