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Posted: 6/19/2015 10:45:20 AM EDT
Looking at opinions on what would be the "best" pdw to have in the car or a small sling pack / backpack.
Requirements: 9mm Accurate to 50-75 yds 30 rd capacity Reliable Foldable / concealable Currently I have an mp5 clone sbr and cz scorpion. Would these serve better than a G17 or 19 with a kpos? The reason I like the kpos is that my ccw could become my pdw with a snap into the kpos and mag change. Thoughts? |
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[#1]
I love my mp5k PDW for the cool factor, but a SBRd Scorpion would be more functional. Rails, etc.
That is, provided CZ figures out the deal with the mags cracking |
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[#2]
SIG MPX is pretty sweet also.
Scorpion is very nice too. Get both. |
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[#3]
If you already have the MP5 clone SBR'd, then that is the best choice since you already have it.
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[#5]
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[#6]
Quoted:
Looking at opinions on what would be the "best" pdw to have in the car or a small sling pack / backpack. Requirements: 9mm Accurate to 50-75 yds 30 rd capacity Reliable Foldable / concealable Currently I have an mp5 clone sbr and cz scorpion. Would these serve better than a G17 or 19 with a kpos? The reason I like the kpos is that my ccw could become my pdw with a snap into the kpos and mag change. Thoughts? View Quote I almost don't understand the question... You have an MP5 SBR, so clearly you appreciate and enjoy the 9mm subgun concept. You also own the CZ scorpion, therefore, you need to SBR it on general principle, it's really not optional. However, now that the Sig MPX pistol version is hitting a street price of below $1200, I think you should pick that up also... Then SBR it. The Glocks w/ chassis such as the KPOS are a last choice option. That's just a long way around the issue of gaining access to a 9mm subgun. And since you have an MP5, CZ Scorpion and a (future) MPX, it seems like you have your bases covered... I don't think its a big deal that your CCW also support your PDW, but your mileage may vary. |
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[#7]
Considering your requirements Id suggest an MP5K. You can use the same magazines you have for the MP5 of course, and with a folder its quite easy to conceal but yet shoulder fire.
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[#9]
Are any stocks available for the UZI Pro? That's the only thing holding me up from picking one up to form 1.
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[#10]
As much as I love my MP5, the Scorpion Evo is probably the better gun due to its lighter weight, cheaper parts and magazines, and plethora of picatinny rails for mounting optics, lights, and other accessories. SBR it and buy a factory stock once they become available.
The MP5 is my favorite favorite gun, but it's an old design and it's showing its age more and more with each passing year. |
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[#11]
My vote is the scorpion and Uzi. I just picked up the scorpion and I can fit it in a back pack and shoot one hand. I enjoy the AR15-HK hybrid ambidextrous controls of the scorpion and the rail space. But if I was going for the smallest possible in concealment I would take the new Uzi pro or MPA 930 DMG.
The DMG is quite light and uses Glock mags with the rail space on a mac11 platform and is priced lower than the others. |
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[#12]
MP5K (with the sidefolder B&T stock), MP5 or mini UZI are my picks in that order.
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[#13]
You've already got the best SMG ever made. Buy some magazines, a surefire forearm, and an optic for it. |
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[#14]
I'm in this situation as well. I can buy an Evo and SBR or save up a little more and get an MKE mp5k clone and SBR. The evo is newer, cheaper, more modern, but doesnt have the cool factor of the K. I have never shot either of them, only shot an FA MP5A2 and that was great, however it did feel a bit dated on its controls and ergos.
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[#15]
For me it would be the Mp5K PDW, or Mini UZI, or Steyr TMP. Of course for a semi-auto I'd lean more towards the Mp5K PDW, or B&T TP-9 (which is a semi-auto copy of the Steyr TMP). The Steyr TMP is the lightest and easiest to conceal. The Mp5K PDW is a smooth shooting accurate gun. The Mini UZI is built like a tank, but it's the heaviest. Of course there are newer offerings like the CZ Scorpion, Sig MPX, but I personally found them to be a bit too bulky for my tastes. I think you would probably be best served with the Mp5K PDW.
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[#16]
Sounds like you want light weight. A G34 or 17L with a decent stock should be accurate enough. I dont know what stocks are available and if they are any good.
Might want to look into a KelTec. Folds up and the one I had was very accurate. Might be the simplest answer without the transfer tax. |
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[#17]
B&T TP9 fits the bill. If cost is a concern, I highly recommend the Masterpiece Arms MPA930DMG. it's a MAC-style gun, straight blowback, that accepts Glock mags. It's threaded for suppression, has a pic rail, and is drilled/tapped for a stock. It can be had for under $600 and is accurate with a red dot or irons. Fit and finish are excellent and you can add a variety of stocks and accessories. Folded, it would fit in a lunch box.
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[#18]
Quoted:
B&T TP9 fits the bill. If cost is a concern, I highly recommend the Masterpiece Arms MPA930DMG. it's a MAC-style gun, straight blowback, that accepts Glock mags. It's threaded for suppression, has a pic rail, and is drilled/tapped for a stock. It can be had for under $600 and is accurate with a red dot or irons. Fit and finish are excellent and you can add a variety of stocks and accessories. Folded, it would fit in a lunch box. View Quote I agree with skulls soldier, but with the addition of the Uzi pro using colt smg mags, it also have a polymer lower to reduce weigh. Get a micro dot on there and be done with it. If you don't mind going old school you can get a pps43c in 9mm or 7.62 tok, and or build your own stengun. There is also the grease gun that valkiria arms makes or see if you can build or have a sterling built. |
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[#19]
I'm building a M7A1ish clone.
300 BLK, 8.2" Noveske bbl, LaRue rail, NEA stock, Geissele SD-3G trigger, tritium sights more whack downrange and suppressible |
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[#20]
Is your mp5 a full size? I'd strongly consider trading for my -k SBR.
...if that tells you anything. |
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[#21]
I did think of another option for a pdw getting one of the m1 carbine pistols then sbring it. You could rig up a neat little stock system. And just to throw another hat in the ring how about a 40s&w tnw asr pistol, it has Glock mags and conversions to 9,45,357 sig, and maybe 22. It will be one of the easer pdw to sbr.
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[#22]
You should look into the B&T TP9. Buy a pistol and then SBR it. Parts including the folding stocks are available through various suppliers in canada. I have 2 SBR'ed and have suppressors for them. Hands down my favorite firearms with a suppressors.
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[#23]
Canada changed their laws and Wolverine Supplies can't export to the U.S. Robert RTG is the place to go for parts now.
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[#24]
Quoted:
Are any stocks available for the UZI Pro? That's the only thing holding me up from picking one up to form 1. View Quote I was going to wait until IWI-USA had stocks available for the new UZI Pro Pistol but my local shop had their first UZI Pro come in and the serial number was 911 so I couldn't pass it up. I had to take it before someone else got that serial number. I talked last week with IWI-USA and they said factory folding stocks are being made right now and should be available for purchase on their web site in a few months. That puts them available at about the time my Form1 comes back to SBR it. |
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[#25]
Are there any pictures of the Uzi Pro with a stock floating around? All I find are pics of the prototype / submachine gun that has the better looking lower.
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[#26]
another option to consider is the POF PSG. It is supposed to be available in the fall or towards the en of the year.It is a nice 9mm.
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[#27]
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[#28]
Another option is either the no longer imported Lusa 9mm or Nitescout 9mm which replaced it. I believe the Lusa used a modified Uzi mag and the Nitescout uses regular Uzi mags. The only thing about these is that there is very little user feedback or reviews.
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[#29]
Quoted:
The only one I've seen has the stabilizing brace on it. Check out Uzitalk. Its.....uhh...non-traditional. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Are there any pictures of the Uzi Pro with a stock floating around? All I find are pics of the prototype / submachine gun that has the better looking lower. The only one I've seen has the stabilizing brace on it. Check out Uzitalk. Its.....uhh...non-traditional. With the folding brace? I actually like it. What other options are that short? |
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[#30]
Quoted:
With the folding brace? I actually like it. What other options are that short? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted:
Are there any pictures of the Uzi Pro with a stock floating around? All I find are pics of the prototype / submachine gun that has the better looking lower. The only one I've seen has the stabilizing brace on it. Check out Uzitalk. Its.....uhh...non-traditional. With the folding brace? I actually like it. What other options are that short? Well, MPA makes a mini that can accept their side folding stock. I've seen one of those SBRed and that thing is downright cute it is so tiny. The original Uzi pistol's wire stock was very short and the prototype Uzi Pro with the better looking lower used that same stock (as well as used original heel release Uzi mags). The newer B&T TP380 that I keep hearing rumors is coming stateside is another cute as button teeny tiny subgun pistol with a miniature side folding stock. My qualm with the "as released" Uzi Pro is that in person it just looks blocky and clunky. I'm not keen on the jutting rail it has and I would have preferred the Tavor-esque grip guard the prototype had... but that would have most likely been classified as a forward grip by the BATFE. Plus the switch to re-cut Uzi mags is an additional deal-breaker for me. I have tons of Uzi mags and had they just kept the heel release all would have been good... but noooooope. |
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[#31]
Quoted:
Well, MPA makes a mini that can accept their side folding stock. I've seen one of those SBRed and that thing is downright cute it is so tiny. The original Uzi pistol's wire stock was very short and the prototype Uzi Pro with the better looking lower used that same stock (as well as used original heel release Uzi mags). The newer B&T TP380 that I keep hearing rumors is coming stateside is another cute as button teeny tiny subgun pistol with a miniature side folding stock. My qualm with the "as released" Uzi Pro is that in person it just looks blocky and clunky. I'm not keen on the jutting rail it has and I would have preferred the Tavor-esque grip guard the prototype had... but that would have most likely been classified as a forward grip by the BATFE. Plus the switch to re-cut Uzi mags is an additional deal-breaker for me. I have tons of Uzi mags and had they just kept the heel release all would have been good... but noooooope. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Are there any pictures of the Uzi Pro with a stock floating around? All I find are pics of the prototype / submachine gun that has the better looking lower. The only one I've seen has the stabilizing brace on it. Check out Uzitalk. Its.....uhh...non-traditional. With the folding brace? I actually like it. What other options are that short? Well, MPA makes a mini that can accept their side folding stock. I've seen one of those SBRed and that thing is downright cute it is so tiny. The original Uzi pistol's wire stock was very short and the prototype Uzi Pro with the better looking lower used that same stock (as well as used original heel release Uzi mags). The newer B&T TP380 that I keep hearing rumors is coming stateside is another cute as button teeny tiny subgun pistol with a miniature side folding stock. My qualm with the "as released" Uzi Pro is that in person it just looks blocky and clunky. I'm not keen on the jutting rail it has and I would have preferred the Tavor-esque grip guard the prototype had... but that would have most likely been classified as a forward grip by the BATFE. Plus the switch to re-cut Uzi mags is an additional deal-breaker for me. I have tons of Uzi mags and had they just kept the heel release all would have been good... but noooooope. Well snap. I saw a review saying they took regular Uzi mags but I now see they were talking about the actual subgun version. That is a bummer, maybe not a deal-killer though. |
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[#32]
Quoted:
Well snap. I saw a review saying they took regular Uzi mags but I now see they were talking about the actual subgun version. That is a bummer, maybe not a deal-killer though. View Quote They can take "classic" Uzi mags, you just have to have a notch cut in them for the new release. The new notch doesn't interfere with the original heel release so you could in theory have piles of surplus mags recut to work in both classic Uzis and the new Pro. My problem is that almost all of my surplus Uzi mags are ALREADY cut to work with Colt pattern 9mm AR's... and I've heard the new Pro's cut is incompatible with the Colt pattern cut. I kind of wish IWI would take a page out of FN's playbook and release a "classic" Uzi Pro with a heel release and provisions for the wire stock. I can live with the ugly polymer lower and the little rail in that circumstance. |
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[#35]
Very nice setup, Dan! I wish they had a pic of the stock so I could decide if it's worth picking one up and filing a form 1.
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[#36]
I'd go with an Mp5K PDW setup no question if I wanted a compact 9mm SBR. I mean you can even buy a nice shoulder holster rig for it and an operational briefcase for it.
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[#37]
Quoted:
I'd go with an Mp5K PDW setup no question if I wanted a compact 9mm SBR. I mean you can even buy a nice shoulder holster rig for it and an operational briefcase for it. View Quote The K PDW is nice (I have a Coharie SBR) but they are not as compact as some of today's other subguns. The K is larger than a TP9 by a noticeable margin and is a lot heavier to boot, and both of them side by side with the stocks folded are night and day from a footprint size standpoint. "Carrying" a K PDW in one of those HK shoulder rigs is like trying to carry a ten speed bike under your arm... they are ungangly, jutty at the wrong spots and with a full size 30 round mag have a footprint like a mutant chicken. Plus HK anything is made of gold and dipped in unicorn tears just like the Swiss B&T stuff. An SBR TP9 is going to cost right about the same as a good SBR K PDW clone these days. If you are looking for a quality subgun then you can't really go wrong with a K PDW, but if you are looking for something you can easily carry then you want something much smaller like a Micro Uzi / Uzi Pro. |
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[#38]
Quoted:
I have a SBR'd VZ61 Scorpion and was thinking of getting the new Evo3 to SBR as I wanted something really small in 9mm. The Evo3 was not it for me. Larger then I thought it would be with too many sharp corners and a very cheap plastic feel. I opted for the UZI Pro Pistol to SBR. It has a polymer lower but feels very solid and well made because the upper is steel. IWI is making factory folding stocks now and they say should be available in three or four months, (right about the same time my Tax Stamp should arrive). It comes with one 20 round mag and one 25 round mag but I just found out they also make 32 round mags. The mags are not that expensive with the 20 round going for $17, the 25 round are $19 and the 32 round are $22 (and they are heavy steel mags). All mag sizes are in stock at IWI USA in Harrisburg, PA. I was going to hold out for the model with the folding arm brace but when I saw the serial number on the basic pistol I have I couldn't pass it up. The Serial Number on mine is 911. Until I can put a vert grip on it I mounted a spare Gear Sector hand stop I had laying around and cut a Tango Down rail cover to fit. This thing is very steady with my support hand pushing forward against the hand stop. Once I put a stock on it I may leave the hand stop as is. My only complaint is they should have made the trigger a little straighter. The curve is a little too drastic for my fat trigger finger but I can live with it. Once I get the stock it will be a good big brother for my little VZ61. I am giving the barrel to a local smith to thread next week so I can use my AAC TiRANT suppressor on it. <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MadDogDan/media/DSC00481_zpsdj1mljth.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/MadDogDan/DSC00481_zpsdj1mljth.jpg</a> <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MadDogDan/media/DSC00483_zps2e2o8fqr.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/MadDogDan/DSC00483_zps2e2o8fqr.jpg</a> <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MadDogDan/media/DSC00485_zpspav8tv27.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/MadDogDan/DSC00485_zpspav8tv27.jpg</a> View Quote So how different are the new mags to the old Uzi mags? I currently own a full size semi Uzi. With the exception of the new mag cut, they look the same and I'm wondering if they'd still fit. |
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[#39]
Quoted:
So how different are the new mags to the old Uzi mags? I currently own a full size semi Uzi. With the exception of the new mag cut, they look the same and I'm wondering if they'd still fit. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a SBR'd VZ61 Scorpion and was thinking of getting the new Evo3 to SBR as I wanted something really small in 9mm. The Evo3 was not it for me. Larger then I thought it would be with too many sharp corners and a very cheap plastic feel. I opted for the UZI Pro Pistol to SBR. It has a polymer lower but feels very solid and well made because the upper is steel. IWI is making factory folding stocks now and they say should be available in three or four months, (right about the same time my Tax Stamp should arrive). It comes with one 20 round mag and one 25 round mag but I just found out they also make 32 round mags. The mags are not that expensive with the 20 round going for $17, the 25 round are $19 and the 32 round are $22 (and they are heavy steel mags). All mag sizes are in stock at IWI USA in Harrisburg, PA. I was going to hold out for the model with the folding arm brace but when I saw the serial number on the basic pistol I have I couldn't pass it up. The Serial Number on mine is 911. Until I can put a vert grip on it I mounted a spare Gear Sector hand stop I had laying around and cut a Tango Down rail cover to fit. This thing is very steady with my support hand pushing forward against the hand stop. Once I put a stock on it I may leave the hand stop as is. My only complaint is they should have made the trigger a little straighter. The curve is a little too drastic for my fat trigger finger but I can live with it. Once I get the stock it will be a good big brother for my little VZ61. I am giving the barrel to a local smith to thread next week so I can use my AAC TiRANT suppressor on it. <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MadDogDan/media/DSC00481_zpsdj1mljth.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/MadDogDan/DSC00481_zpsdj1mljth.jpg</a> <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MadDogDan/media/DSC00483_zps2e2o8fqr.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/MadDogDan/DSC00483_zps2e2o8fqr.jpg</a> <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MadDogDan/media/DSC00485_zpspav8tv27.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/MadDogDan/DSC00485_zpspav8tv27.jpg</a> So how different are the new mags to the old Uzi mags? I currently own a full size semi Uzi. With the exception of the new mag cut, they look the same and I'm wondering if they'd still fit. Spade, your older mags would work in the UZI Pro "only" if you had the correct notch cut in the left side of them. The older mags are the same dimensionally but lack the side notch. You could always purchase on of the new 20 rounders for $17 to take measurements and have a machinist cut the proper notch in the side of your mags. That way they would work in the new and older UZI's. |
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[#40]
Quoted:
Spade, your older mags would work in the UZI Pro "only" if you had the correct notch cut in the left side of them. The older mags are the same dimensionally but lack the side notch. You could always purchase on of the new 20 rounders for $17 to take measurements and have a machinist cut the proper notch in the side of your mags. That way they would work in the new and older UZI's. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a SBR'd VZ61 Scorpion and was thinking of getting the new Evo3 to SBR as I wanted something really small in 9mm. The Evo3 was not it for me. Larger then I thought it would be with too many sharp corners and a very cheap plastic feel. I opted for the UZI Pro Pistol to SBR. It has a polymer lower but feels very solid and well made because the upper is steel. IWI is making factory folding stocks now and they say should be available in three or four months, (right about the same time my Tax Stamp should arrive). It comes with one 20 round mag and one 25 round mag but I just found out they also make 32 round mags. The mags are not that expensive with the 20 round going for $17, the 25 round are $19 and the 32 round are $22 (and they are heavy steel mags). All mag sizes are in stock at IWI USA in Harrisburg, PA. I was going to hold out for the model with the folding arm brace but when I saw the serial number on the basic pistol I have I couldn't pass it up. The Serial Number on mine is 911. Until I can put a vert grip on it I mounted a spare Gear Sector hand stop I had laying around and cut a Tango Down rail cover to fit. This thing is very steady with my support hand pushing forward against the hand stop. Once I put a stock on it I may leave the hand stop as is. My only complaint is they should have made the trigger a little straighter. The curve is a little too drastic for my fat trigger finger but I can live with it. Once I get the stock it will be a good big brother for my little VZ61. I am giving the barrel to a local smith to thread next week so I can use my AAC TiRANT suppressor on it. <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MadDogDan/media/DSC00481_zpsdj1mljth.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/MadDogDan/DSC00481_zpsdj1mljth.jpg</a> <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MadDogDan/media/DSC00483_zps2e2o8fqr.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/MadDogDan/DSC00483_zps2e2o8fqr.jpg</a> <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MadDogDan/media/DSC00485_zpspav8tv27.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/MadDogDan/DSC00485_zpspav8tv27.jpg</a> So how different are the new mags to the old Uzi mags? I currently own a full size semi Uzi. With the exception of the new mag cut, they look the same and I'm wondering if they'd still fit. Spade, your older mags would work in the UZI Pro "only" if you had the correct notch cut in the left side of them. The older mags are the same dimensionally but lack the side notch. You could always purchase on of the new 20 rounders for $17 to take measurements and have a machinist cut the proper notch in the side of your mags. That way they would work in the new and older UZI's. Do you think the new mags would work in the old Uzi then? |
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[#42]
Quoted:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/JsARCLIGHT/uzi-pro-magazines-max-slowik-cover_zpsaqrqvh6i.jpg View Quote Huh. I'd pay reasonable money for a jig to let me convert the Uzi mags I have to the Uzi Pro standard. Still, kudos to IWI for keeping original Uzi compatibility... that makes the transition a lot easier. OTOH, WTF is with the Tavor 9mm conversion using Colt mags, then? Anyways, back to the PDW thing. If SBRs are on the table, the Kel-Tec SU-16D9 would be high on my list for PDWs. Yeah, Kel-Tec. But, you're getting a very light-weight compact gun that's firing a real rifle round, uses piston operation, and uses standard AR mags. And if anything goes wrong, their warranty is pretty epic. |
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[#43]
I called IWI-US yesterday morning and ordered some 32 round mags for my Pro. With $6 shipping they were on my doorstep this afternoon. That's what I call fast.
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