Need a lighter Scorpion [bad shoulders] so hoping the factory short barrel model is near

can anybody confirm a short bbl model is planned and/or an approximate target date?

Your help will be appreciated

Bear

CZ said they hope to have the stock kit by end of summer. So submit your form 1 now.

I am thinking the brace rather than a stock  ..however .....is a stock kit expected to include a short barrel and shortened frontend shroud?

Thanks
Bear

It is a short barrel already.

With a brace a pistol is still a pistol, as long as you don't shoulder it.

The stock kit will just be the stock and the parts needed to make it 922r compliant.

You will buy the pistol and submit a form 1 at the ATF to make it a short barrel rifle. Then you can put the stock on it.

I haven't heard anything about a shorter barreled version. It's already 7.5", what more do you want?

Are you thinking of the MPX? It comes in several barrel/foreend sizes. The Scorpion has never been advertised as coming in a shorter package. I've never even heard of someone asking for such a thing, not to say that you're wrong for wanting one.

Pretty sure you're not thinking of the scorpion, as it does not have a shroud and the barrel only comes in one length.



CZ Scorpion:





Sig Sauer MPX:


 

Well ...it is close to 20% heavier than an MP5K
Pistols come in 2",3",4",6",83/8" etc ...each one designed to fit into a need ..sight plain length ...concealment ....weight  ..speed to battery etc
So this Scorpion 8" only offering is too big ...too heavy ...for my particular plans ..that simple

Do not worry CZ'ers ..when the present offering slows down they will discover other barrel lengths ...but I fear not in time to catch my $$

Thanks all
Bear

I highly doubt you will see shorter barrels. The Scorpion Eco 3 a1 has been around for 5-6 years now and 7.7" barrel is it.

How much weight to you expect to save by cutting that in half even? Not much.

A lot of the guns weight comes from the massive bolt needed for its blowback design.

When shot as a pistol yea it's heavy, but when shot with a brace or stock. It's not.



Sound like you already have another gun in mind. What?

If you need something really light maybe SBRing a Glock is what you should be looking at.

First off, SOME pistols come in those lengths, many do not. A lot of the time you do just have to look at another model if the one you have in mind does not come in your desired length or setup.

Also the scorpion is not a pistol. It is sold as a pistol purely due to import restrictions. If the restrictions didn't exist there would be no "pistol" version of the gun at all. It was designed and is still intended to be a rifle. Just look at places that don't have barrel length restrictions, no pistol model exists in those places.

Also, there will not be any other barrel lengths of the scorpion, no matter how long you wait. It has been out for several years already and it have never been mentioned that they have ever even considered a different length. The Scorpion is designed and produced to be a sub-gun, and that is where it is going to stay. If you want or need something smaller and shorter CZ already has a full line of handguns that can meet your needs, but the Scorpion just isn't going to be shoehorned into that roll.

Seriously, someone's looking for revolver barrel lengths for a semi auto.  Also, on a blow back weapon I'd be surprised if you could get it to cycle with a 2" barrel, nor do I have any idea on how shortening the barrel on the Evo 3 to that length would make it "more concealable."

I really think the OP is looking for something other than the Scorpion Evo 3, maybe a dan wesson revolver, but who knows...

Guys ...deep breath here ....Let me rephrase the question
...the MP5K has the weight,dimensions,flexability and accsesories that very much fit my shopping list but is basically more than I need/can spend

The Scorpion seems to be a successful platform function wise ..but I am watching it starting to get cheaper and cheaper in the market ...it is not due to function so it must be a function of supply ..lots of supply

so IF ...and I say IF ...product flow is slowing then pricing drops ...OR ...the manufacturer promotes sales by creating new models ...creating new demand ...keeping prevailing prices stable...so I asked the simple question ..is CZ going to answer the bell?

i am not attacking this good platform ..just asking if other "stuff" is coming?

After all I own 9mm BLOWBACK semi-autos that weigh 14 ounces ..are less than an inch thick, 4 inches tall and about that long

so I know the platform does not have to weigh 5 or more pounds and have be carried like a loaf of bread

Now the fine print about my search :First my search is just beginning ..I live in the boonies ..I am unable to put my hands on ANY of the current flock of pistol caliber carbines ..so my views are not fully my own (until I see,shoot and strip) because most are formed thru reading ..but I have a solid gun background via US Army AB Ranger and LEO so i have carried and combated with UZ! , HK and S&W full auto platforms

So having humped the HK platform the most ..it starts as my yard stick ...not as in what I buy has to be exactly like it ..but more as a measure of how another platform will "feel" .."come to battery" etc

Thanks All
Bear

Are you referring to semi-auto pistols? Because the vast majority of those are not straight blow back, they lock in some way. The slide and barrel travel reward locked together some distance allowing the chamber pressure to drop before the case is extracted. Maybe you are thinking recoil operated. In the scorpion the only thing that keeps the case in the chamber long enough for the chamber pressure to drop before extraction is the weight of the bolt. The MP5 is a delayed blow back, using rollers. That is why the HK bolt is so much smaller and lighter
An Uzi is also straight blow back and that thing is seriously fucking heavy.

Like I said take a look at glock carbine kits or just the stock that clips into the grip.

It's getting cheaper because it's finally hitting its intended street price, not MSRP or the inflated early adopter price.

The thing is a submachine gun neutered to semi-auto, not a pistol.

Product flow slowing does not decrease price, it increases it as the demand is outpacing the supply.



CZ has no need to promote sale by making new models, they cannot currently keep up with demand with just one model, and their current project is getting setup to offer 922r compliant SBR kits.



Prices you're seeing are market inflation, CZ's MSRP is $850 which currently cannot be matched by any 9mm smg style pistol on the market. If they built it like an MP5K it would cost as much as an MP5K and you'd be back to square one of not being able to afford one.



What you need is an SBR'd Glock with the grip plug stock and a VFG to be lighter and more compact than the MP5K, if you don't want an SBR, just put a lanyard ring on any pistol and use a sling to brace it.



The Scorpion was designed to compete as a drastically cheaper alternative to the standard MP5, not the specialty guns which have limited use and even more limited market. This is where the Sig MPX is going to be your only possible option, but again it's probably well outside your budget.



Since nothing in the bargain basement is going to meet your yardstick demands, I'd suggest saving your pennies for a POF MP5K clone (Atlantic gets them in for around 1500), but you're not going to lay hands on anything like it for less than a grand and no company is going to make a specialty gun for one person who wants a completely different model of gun from the start.



Hate to say it, but with your minimal posts this almost looks like a troll thread...

This.... is the answer to this stupid thread. It's not the topic itself defined it's stupidity, but the majority of the content and thoughts contained within. DannerTrax

Much truth here.  

The ONLY thing that might be cheaper for the OP's "needs" would be a LUSA pistol.  While they are aesthetically challenged, they're smaller than a Evo 3 but still sorta-kinda look like his "yard stick".  However, at the end of the day the POF MP5K wouldn't be that much more in the grand scheme of things....

Just wait for the MPX-K if you want something shorter. It will be at least $1200. Probably more.

Well ...I did not realize this was a touchy question ...so I apologize to any I have offended in asking it

I can end this real quick though ...it appears that trying to spend my $$ with folks such as SIG or CZ USA  ...who have at least tried to invest in America  with warehousing,repair departments, customer service and some manufacturing (American jobs) should get a shot at those $$'s first

I owe zero to the Turks(MKE) or the Paki's(POF) who appear to own the MP5K clone market  ..but that seems to be where I am headed ..to MKE MP5K

So .. a dumb question ..I didn't think so ...A troll because of low postings ..not hardly ..I am too busy to spend time on forums posting

I go to forums when I need a question answered ..and ...as a competition pistol grip carver (cowboy action shooters both ground and mounted) and am known nation wide as well as internationally .. I do admit to more closely following those forums simply to keep up with trends and market needs

So ...yes... I am just dumb founded at some of the views expressed  to my question on this forum ..or maybe disappointed is a better word

Bear

Don't think he knows the MKE is $1750

nor does it have a 2" barrel, nor is it 14 ounces, but maybe it doesn't carry like a loaf of bread....

Not trying to get too far a field as this is a tech forum and not GD, but its always fascinating to me to see people who have no conception of how a firearm functions demand fundamental changes to it which completely alter what it is out of a belief that their singular one off views on what the firearm should be will drive a firearms manufacturer to ramp up production for that one off oddity....  

But, all that said, since we now have the requirement that everything has to be made in the US, I really think the appropriate answer here is a 9mm AR15.  You can get 100% made in the US, there are some pretty in-expensive options for parts out there on getting one put together and with a Harbor Freight $4.99 hack saw, you can make that barrel any length you like! To include as short as 2" (but remember, the OAL on a 9mm round is about 1.135" to 1.142" meaning you've got less than an inch of operable barrel with a 2" barrel if you're measuring from the breach face).  Also, the buffer tube would work perfectly for the brace.  While it definitely will not be as inexpensive as the Evo S3, it at least hits your requirements of US made with lots of barrel options....

I always find it interesting when people try to cram their background down others throats instead of talking tech and listening.

But we aren't internationally known LEOs.....so.....

I have an MKE PDW SBR and a CZ Scorpion both.

The weight difference is minimal. The MP5 recoils less, but not enough less to matter.

It sounds like what you need is a 22lr AR pistol with a brace. Hell of a lot of fun, cheap to shoot if you've stockpiled ammo, and way easier on the shoulder.

Have you ever handled a scorpion, or an MP5K, or anything else in the class?  I have an MP5k and I would, in a second and without hesitation, swap it out for a full-size MP5 if it somehow didn't require 9 months wait and a huge PITA.

The slightly larger Scorpion and MPX strike a nice balance between compactness and actual usability.  They both seem to be roughly in between the MP5 and MP5k in size.  

I'm sure someone will come explain with a pie chart how I'm totally wrong, but this opinion is based on handling all of them, and firing all of them, less the scorpion unfortunately.

Also, I'm not one to ask why, but how often are you really planning to conceal a giant pistol caliber carbine?

Yes ...I have duty carried [pre injury] most of the sub-guns but not the current semi offerings of the MPX.Scorpion,CX4 etc
my problem is not recoil but literally the strength to hold it up [and fire accurately] also would like more Ump than a 22LR

I am going east  grandkidding to the Roanoke Virginia  area in a couple of weeks ..so maybe I can find a dealer or dealers in that area that would have the platforms to handle

since my injuries ..I have found that WHERE the weight is [back heavy is better than front heavy] is as important as what it weighs

Again I thank all of you contributors that have done so in a positive way ...to those who have gone a bit sarcastic or who cannot read ..or cannot comprehend what they read ...it sucks to be you ..twisted minds/twisted words I suppose ..like you CKxx ..I am sure this will get "pie charted" as you say!! HA HA!

Bear

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=72351.0

Try a Brugger & Thomet TP9 and put a stock on it.  I have one and it shoots great.  I also have the Rotex can for it.  Not extremely quiet but it works.

CSF

TP9

Agreed - the TP9 is an awesome gun. Light weight and negligible recoil.

Another vote for the TP9..

TP9 SBRs are fun and about as small as you can get outside of a SBR'ed Uzi pistol or one of those MPA Mac clones. But woof, those prices. Assuming B&T's return to America will mean increased availability and hopefully decreased prices... but as it stands now TP9's are kind of hens toothy and the parts to SBR them (or even fix them) are only now starting to return to the market.

I think it should also be noted that TP9s are Swiss watches... they are very mechanically complex for what they are. Wonderful guns, but the design might as well be a rubix cube compared to a CZ Scorpion.

I own a TP9 SBR (as well as a safe full of other various pistol cal SBRs) and while it is one of my favorite 9mm SBRs to shoot, it has a lot of quirks that make me reach for my MP5K clone or my 9mm AR most of the time (mainly because those two can be suppressed very easily and they both have more comfortable stocks for extended shooting sessions).

And, for the record, if you hunt and peck you may be able to find one of the early TP-9 imports with the threaded barrel shroud. If you do, Thompson Machine will make you a kick-ass adapter for their SG2 suppressor. I've heard rumors that B&T US is going to make the Rotex can here; if they do, I'll be all over it.

I give on the non and never coming shorter Scorpion ....I just picked up my MKE MP5 at the local FFL guy ...sweet sweet sweet ...exactly what I was needing weight and balance wise ...now the SBR question  ...and I am getting cold feet on SBRing and I will give my reason why ...i am in my motorhome a bunch and winter out of state
1.I live in Missouri where it would be SBR'ed  ..but have shooting age grandkids in Virginia,Florida and Texas I have not had a chance to investigate this but as I picked
  this new bucket list gun up today ..I was told permission or some sort of notification to whoever has to be done if I leave the state of Missouri with the SBR????
2. I see the weapon's value decreasing as soon as I deface it with the engraving ..I would not want one with someone's name on it unless extremley cheap  $$
3. I realize some states I may visit and winter in may not like a 30 round mag ..that I can fix ...I cannot fix a non-NFA state
4. Transfer to a family member when the time comes will be much easier on a non SBR weapon

so I am leaning to the arm brace system ..down the road ..I know presently the ATF says the arm brace is OK ...just don't shoulder it ...

I am new at this SBR thing ..if I have something filed in my mind incorrectly... I would appreciate gentle constructive view points

Thanks for all the thoughts, suggestions and participating in my original question

Bear

Bear I'm glad that you got your mp5k model and are enjoying it. Don't sbr it if you feel you are going to have the most trouble that way (some thing good may come our way). I have the scorpion and love it with a sling to brace and shoot, and I have had some time on the brace. Now with that I might suggest bout a qd sling and brace so you can have the maximum points of contact with the brace and the qd for your guest shooters.