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Posted: 4/17/2015 7:16:03 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is everybody putting for the overall length on their Form 1? I know when I did my AR it was with the stock in its shortest position but since these will be folding stocks, I'm not sure how it should be measured. I can't find it now, but I emailed the ATF and asked when what they want in the OAL Box; Do they want Collapsed length or the Extended length... I thought for sure they would want the collapsed length, but he said Extended... Here is CZ's Offical Specs.... https://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/86-law-enforcement-military/OS-AUT/CZ_SCORPION_EVO_3_A1.aspx Which list them in metric... as 410/660 mm I wish I could find somewhere on ATFs site where its stated, as I've seen several people of each opinion and both know they are right and the other is an idiot...  Also, how do they expect you to get accurate measurements without putting a stock on to measure... ***Edit*** I never call Page X ownage as I never know how to tell when its goign to start a new page...  |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 7:54:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't find it now, but I emailed the ATF and asked when what they want in the OAL Box; Do they want Collapsed length or the Extended length... I thought for sure they would want the collapsed length, but he said Extended... Here is CZ's Offical Specs.... https://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/86-law-enforcement-military/OS-AUT/CZ_SCORPION_EVO_3_A1.aspx Which list them in metric... as 410/660 mm I wish I could find somewhere on ATFs site where its stated, as I've seen several people of each opinion and both know they are right and the other is an idiot...
Also, how do they expect you to get accurate measurements without putting a stock on to measure... ***Edit*** I never call Page X ownage as I never know how to tell when its goign to start a new page...
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What is everybody putting for the overall length on their Form 1? I know when I did my AR it was with the stock in its shortest position but since these will be folding stocks, I'm not sure how it should be measured. I can't find it now, but I emailed the ATF and asked when what they want in the OAL Box; Do they want Collapsed length or the Extended length... I thought for sure they would want the collapsed length, but he said Extended... Here is CZ's Offical Specs.... https://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/86-law-enforcement-military/OS-AUT/CZ_SCORPION_EVO_3_A1.aspx Which list them in metric... as 410/660 mm I wish I could find somewhere on ATFs site where its stated, as I've seen several people of each opinion and both know they are right and the other is an idiot...
Also, how do they expect you to get accurate measurements without putting a stock on to measure... ***Edit*** I never call Page X ownage as I never know how to tell when its goign to start a new page...
CZ website says the machinegun version is 26" oal so that's what I put in. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 8:01:10 PM EDT
[#3]
I also put 26"
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Posted: 4/17/2015 8:01:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CZ website says the machinegun version is 26" oal so that's what I put in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What is everybody putting for the overall length on their Form 1? I know when I did my AR it was with the stock in its shortest position but since these will be folding stocks, I'm not sure how it should be measured. I can't find it now, but I emailed the ATF and asked when what they want in the OAL Box; Do they want Collapsed length or the Extended length... I thought for sure they would want the collapsed length, but he said Extended... Here is CZ's Offical Specs.... https://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/86-law-enforcement-military/OS-AUT/CZ_SCORPION_EVO_3_A1.aspx Which list them in metric... as 410/660 mm I wish I could find somewhere on ATFs site where its stated, as I've seen several people of each opinion and both know they are right and the other is an idiot...
Also, how do they expect you to get accurate measurements without putting a stock on to measure... ***Edit*** I never call Page X ownage as I never know how to tell when its goign to start a new page...
CZ website says the machinegun version is 26" oal so that's what I put in. FH on or off??? |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 8:05:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FH on or off??? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What is everybody putting for the overall length on their Form 1? I know when I did my AR it was with the stock in its shortest position but since these will be folding stocks, I'm not sure how it should be measured. I can't find it now, but I emailed the ATF and asked when what they want in the OAL Box; Do they want Collapsed length or the Extended length... I thought for sure they would want the collapsed length, but he said Extended... Here is CZ's Offical Specs.... https://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/86-law-enforcement-military/OS-AUT/CZ_SCORPION_EVO_3_A1.aspx Which list them in metric... as 410/660 mm I wish I could find somewhere on ATFs site where its stated, as I've seen several people of each opinion and both know they are right and the other is an idiot...
Also, how do they expect you to get accurate measurements without putting a stock on to measure... ***Edit*** I never call Page X ownage as I never know how to tell when its goign to start a new page...
CZ website says the machinegun version is 26" oal so that's what I put in. FH on or off??? If it's not permanently attached it doesn't count towards length |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 9:10:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FH on or off??? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What is everybody putting for the overall length on their Form 1? I know when I did my AR it was with the stock in its shortest position but since these will be folding stocks, I'm not sure how it should be measured. I can't find it now, but I emailed the ATF and asked when what they want in the OAL Box; Do they want Collapsed length or the Extended length... I thought for sure they would want the collapsed length, but he said Extended... Here is CZ's Offical Specs.... https://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/86-law-enforcement-military/OS-AUT/CZ_SCORPION_EVO_3_A1.aspx Which list them in metric... as 410/660 mm I wish I could find somewhere on ATFs site where its stated, as I've seen several people of each opinion and both know they are right and the other is an idiot...
Also, how do they expect you to get accurate measurements without putting a stock on to measure... ***Edit*** I never call Page X ownage as I never know how to tell when its goign to start a new page...
CZ website says the machinegun version is 26" oal so that's what I put in. FH on or off??? No idea |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 10:46:36 PM EDT
[#7]
I honestly don't think the ATF really cares about OAL. I just pulled numbers out of my ass on another one I did.
Just another form question on ther paperwork. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 10:54:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I honestly don't think the ATF really cares about OAL. I just pulled numbers out of my ass on another one I did. Just another form question on ther paperwork. I don't think they care what you put on the form ...but if you were ever asked to produce the stamp (highly unlikely) and the OAL was shorter then what was on the paperwork it could be an issue. I always measure then go a little shorter on the paperwork just to be on the safe side. So if it measured out at 26" I may put 24" just to give me some wiggle room. Can't remember what I put on my form, will have to go back and look. . |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 11:08:39 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks for the replies guys. Just picked up my Scorpion today and got a packet from BATF in the mail. Unfortunately, the packet didn't contain any of the actual paper Form 1s because they're on "backorder". So now I'm kinda just a sitting duck waiting for the man to be kind enough to send my some forms so I can give them my money.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 11:14:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the replies guys. Just picked up my Scorpion today and got a packet from BATF in the mail. Unfortunately, the packet didn't contain any of the actual paper Form 1s because they're on "backorder". So now I'm kinda just a sitting duck waiting for the man to be kind enough to send my some forms so I can give them my money. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile You need to set up a trust so you can Efile. Will save you a lot of wait time. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 11:29:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think they care what you put on the form ...but if you were ever asked to produce the stamp (highly unlikely) and the OAL was shorter then what was on the paperwork it could be an issue. I always measure then go a little shorter on the paperwork just to be on the safe side. So if it measured out at 26" I may put 24" just to give me some wiggle room. Can't remember what I put on my form, will have to go back and look. . Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I honestly don't think the ATF really cares about OAL. I just pulled numbers out of my ass on another one I did. Just another form question on ther paperwork. I don't think they care what you put on the form ...but if you were ever asked to produce the stamp (highly unlikely) and the OAL was shorter then what was on the paperwork it could be an issue. I always measure then go a little shorter on the paperwork just to be on the safe side. So if it measured out at 26" I may put 24" just to give me some wiggle room. Can't remember what I put on my form, will have to go back and look. . No it won't. You're submitting info on what you're manufacturing it as, not necessarily what it will remain as. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 11:30:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You need to set up a trust so you can Efile. Will save you a lot of wait time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the replies guys. Just picked up my Scorpion today and got a packet from BATF in the mail. Unfortunately, the packet didn't contain any of the actual paper Form 1s because they're on "backorder". So now I'm kinda just a sitting duck waiting for the man to be kind enough to send my some forms so I can give them my money. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile You need to set up a trust so you can Efile. Will save you a lot of wait time. No doubt. I have 3 stamps so far on this $40 trust. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 11:33:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No it won't. You're submitting info on what you're manufacturing it as, not necessarily what it will remain as. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I honestly don't think the ATF really cares about OAL. I just pulled numbers out of my ass on another one I did. Just another form question on ther paperwork. I don't think they care what you put on the form ...but if you were ever asked to produce the stamp (highly unlikely) and the OAL was shorter then what was on the paperwork it could be an issue. I always measure then go a little shorter on the paperwork just to be on the safe side. So if it measured out at 26" I may put 24" just to give me some wiggle room. Can't remember what I put on my form, will have to go back and look. . No it won't. You're submitting info on what you're manufacturing it as, not necessarily what it will remain as. Exactly. An sbr is an sbr. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 9:09:30 AM EDT
[#14]
Some of you are getting way to anal about what the listed OAL is.
As others pointed out, an SBR is an SBR. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 11:50:40 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the replies guys. Just picked up my Scorpion today and got a packet from BATF in the mail. Unfortunately, the packet didn't contain any of the actual paper Form 1s because they're on "backorder". So now I'm kinda just a sitting duck waiting for the man to be kind enough to send my some forms so I can give them my money. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Why not use the electronic fillable version? |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 12:40:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not use the electronic fillable version? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the replies guys. Just picked up my Scorpion today and got a packet from BATF in the mail. Unfortunately, the packet didn't contain any of the actual paper Form 1s because they're on "backorder". So now I'm kinda just a sitting duck waiting for the man to be kind enough to send my some forms so I can give them my money. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Why not use the electronic fillable version? I don't have a trust...yet. Joined Florida Carry last night and with the membership you get a NFA Trust. Just have to wait for them to email me the stuff I need to set the trust up. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 5:21:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't find it now, but I emailed the ATF and asked when what they want in the OAL Box; Do they want Collapsed length or the Extended length... I thought for sure they would want the collapsed length, but he said Extended... Here is CZ's Offical Specs.... https://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/86-law-enforcement-military/OS-AUT/CZ_SCORPION_EVO_3_A1.aspx Which list them in metric... as 410/660 mm I wish I could find somewhere on ATFs site where its stated, as I've seen several people of each opinion and both know they are right and the other is an idiot...
Also, how do they expect you to get accurate measurements without putting a stock on to measure... ***Edit*** I never call Page X ownage as I never know how to tell when its goign to start a new page...
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What is everybody putting for the overall length on their Form 1? I know when I did my AR it was with the stock in its shortest position but since these will be folding stocks, I'm not sure how it should be measured. I can't find it now, but I emailed the ATF and asked when what they want in the OAL Box; Do they want Collapsed length or the Extended length... I thought for sure they would want the collapsed length, but he said Extended... Here is CZ's Offical Specs.... https://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/86-law-enforcement-military/OS-AUT/CZ_SCORPION_EVO_3_A1.aspx Which list them in metric... as 410/660 mm I wish I could find somewhere on ATFs site where its stated, as I've seen several people of each opinion and both know they are right and the other is an idiot...
Also, how do they expect you to get accurate measurements without putting a stock on to measure... ***Edit*** I never call Page X ownage as I never know how to tell when its goign to start a new page...
26" is the OAL for SBR'ing with factory stock. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 6:57:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't have a trust...yet. Joined Florida Carry last night and with the membership you get a NFA Trust. Just have to wait for them to email me the stuff I need to set the trust up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the replies guys. Just picked up my Scorpion today and got a packet from BATF in the mail. Unfortunately, the packet didn't contain any of the actual paper Form 1s because they're on "backorder". So now I'm kinda just a sitting duck waiting for the man to be kind enough to send my some forms so I can give them my money. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Why not use the electronic fillable version? I don't have a trust...yet. Joined Florida Carry last night and with the membership you get a NFA Trust. Just have to wait for them to email me the stuff I need to set the trust up. No, I mean the PDF version you can type into, print out, and send as paper? |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 7:09:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, I mean the PDF version you can type into, print out, and send as paper? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the replies guys. Just picked up my Scorpion today and got a packet from BATF in the mail. Unfortunately, the packet didn't contain any of the actual paper Form 1s because they're on "backorder". So now I'm kinda just a sitting duck waiting for the man to be kind enough to send my some forms so I can give them my money. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Why not use the electronic fillable version? I don't have a trust...yet. Joined Florida Carry last night and with the membership you get a NFA Trust. Just have to wait for them to email me the stuff I need to set the trust up. No, I mean the PDF version you can type into, print out, and send as paper? Because I didn't realize that there was one until you just mentioned it.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 7:52:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't have a trust...yet. Joined Florida Carry last night and with the membership you get a NFA Trust. Just have to wait for them to email me the stuff I need to set the trust up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the replies guys. Just picked up my Scorpion today and got a packet from BATF in the mail. Unfortunately, the packet didn't contain any of the actual paper Form 1s because they're on "backorder". So now I'm kinda just a sitting duck waiting for the man to be kind enough to send my some forms so I can give them my money. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Why not use the electronic fillable version? I don't have a trust...yet. Joined Florida Carry last night and with the membership you get a NFA Trust. Just have to wait for them to email me the stuff I need to set the trust up. I would wait for the trust and then e file. It would still be way quicker. Unless you don't mind waiting 6-8 months for a paper individual form 1. If you still want paper Form 1... then all you have to do is print it. Current ATF Form 1 |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 7:54:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s1254.photobucket.com/user/norinco982lover/media/Mobile%20Uploads/0BE17BBC-75AD-4294-A8C1-2688C69BDF97_zpsxdoepk0d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh617/norinco982lover/Mobile%20Uploads/0BE17BBC-75AD-4294-A8C1-2688C69BDF97_zpsxdoepk0d.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1254.photobucket.com/user/norinco982lover/media/Mobile%20Uploads/52688B82-7727-4D4A-8AC6-08C5E5E23FB3_zps5wd5mi50.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh617/norinco982lover/Mobile%20Uploads/52688B82-7727-4D4A-8AC6-08C5E5E23FB3_zps5wd5mi50.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1254.photobucket.com/user/norinco982lover/media/Mobile%20Uploads/839842F6-CD59-414D-ACA5-644BA27781C7_zpsrtual052.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh617/norinco982lover/Mobile%20Uploads/839842F6-CD59-414D-ACA5-644BA27781C7_zpsrtual052.jpg</a> holy fuc!!!! im in love! 
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Posted: 4/19/2015 5:54:34 PM EDT
[#22]
What is everybody putting in the section for "name and location of original manufacturer"?
Would it be CZ-USA, Czech Republic? Or something else? |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 6:32:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is everybody putting in the section for "name and location of original manufacturer"? Would it be CZ-USA, Czech Republic? Or something else? I put CZ (Ceská zbrojovka) and cz scorpion evo was then listed in the drop down. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 12:30:46 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly. An sbr is an sbr. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
I honestly don't think the ATF really cares about OAL. I just pulled numbers out of my ass on another one I did. Just another form question on ther paperwork. I don't think they care what you put on the form ...but if you were ever asked to produce the stamp (highly unlikely) and the OAL was shorter then what was on the paperwork it could be an issue. I always measure then go a little shorter on the paperwork just to be on the safe side. So if it measured out at 26" I may put 24" just to give me some wiggle room. Can't remember what I put on my form, will have to go back and look. . No it won't. You're submitting info on what you're manufacturing it as, not necessarily what it will remain as. Exactly. An sbr is an sbr. This is worth repeating...at least 100 more times. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 12:33:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is worth repeating...at least 100 more times. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I honestly don't think the ATF really cares about OAL. I just pulled numbers out of my ass on another one I did. Just another form question on ther paperwork. I don't think they care what you put on the form ...but if you were ever asked to produce the stamp (highly unlikely) and the OAL was shorter then what was on the paperwork it could be an issue. I always measure then go a little shorter on the paperwork just to be on the safe side. So if it measured out at 26" I may put 24" just to give me some wiggle room. Can't remember what I put on my form, will have to go back and look. . No it won't. You're submitting info on what you're manufacturing it as, not necessarily what it will remain as. Exactly. An sbr is an sbr. This is worth repeating...at least 100 more times. An SBR is an SBR.... period. The gun coming up shorter than paperwork doesn't mean anything. You already have it regeistered as a short barrel rifle so what is the infraction? Possesion of a shorter oal rifle? Guys change stocks all the time... and some are shorter than others. Not an issue. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 3:09:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would wait for the trust and then e file. It would still be way quicker. Unless you don't mind waiting 6-8 months for a paper individual form 1. If you still want paper Form 1... then all you have to do is print it. ATF Form 1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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Thanks for the replies guys. Just picked up my Scorpion today and got a packet from BATF in the mail. Unfortunately, the packet didn't contain any of the actual paper Form 1s because they're on "backorder". So now I'm kinda just a sitting duck waiting for the man to be kind enough to send my some forms so I can give them my money. Why not use the electronic fillable version? I don't have a trust...yet. Joined Florida Carry last night and with the membership you get a NFA Trust. Just have to wait for them to email me the stuff I need to set the trust up. I would wait for the trust and then e file. It would still be way quicker. Unless you don't mind waiting 6-8 months for a paper individual form 1. If you still want paper Form 1... then all you have to do is print it. ATF Form 1 Just as a reference to others who read through this thread and plan on submitting a paper Form 1, the above link is for an outdated copy of the form. You will have to go to the ATF's website and print the new one, which unfortunately is not a fillable PDF. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 3:59:06 PM EDT
[#27]
This is the updated form. I'll edit my post to new form. Current ATF Form 1
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Posted: 4/20/2015 5:26:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think they care what you put on the form ...but if you were ever asked to produce the stamp (highly unlikely) and the OAL was shorter then what was on the paperwork it could be an issue. I always measure then go a little shorter on the paperwork just to be on the safe side. So if it measured out at 26" I may put 24" just to give me some wiggle room. Can't remember what I put on my form, will have to go back and look. . Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I honestly don't think the ATF really cares about OAL. I just pulled numbers out of my ass on another one I did. Just another form question on ther paperwork. I don't think they care what you put on the form ...but if you were ever asked to produce the stamp (highly unlikely) and the OAL was shorter then what was on the paperwork it could be an issue. I always measure then go a little shorter on the paperwork just to be on the safe side. So if it measured out at 26" I may put 24" just to give me some wiggle room. Can't remember what I put on my form, will have to go back and look. . This is an incorrect method of measuring your SBR. The proper measure of an SBR is with any folding or collapsible stocks fully extended and any non-permanent flash hiders removed. The ATF does not care if you go shorter or longer than what's listed on the Form 1. That is simply a snapshot in time of the moment it's created. Temporary changes are fine, permanent changes are fine too. Some will argue that you must send in an update to the ATF if you make a permanent change, but that will really only come into play if you sell the gun and the Form 4 doesn't match the Form 1 as far as measurements. We've been through this numerous times in the NFA forums on this board. Here's one example. |
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