Hey guys, I normally spend most of my time over in the AR/AK sections but lately I've been interested in PCCs. Primarily, I'd like a better home defense weapon that handles more surely than my pistol, but isn't as long as a carbine AR without SBRing it. I've swept my house a bunch with my 16" AR and determined that an 11.5 AR would be ideal, but again, I'm interested in a PCC specifically.

In any case, the more I research 9mm CX4s the more I like it. Not ready to buy just yet (need, well, money first). But anyhow, I have a couple noob questions:

1. If I actually SBR the CX4 to get it even shorter, which half does the engraving go on? Seems to be the lower, since it's basically set up like an AR.
2. How's that little pull-out rail section under the barrel hold up? I don't see many owners utilizing it. Is it just too flimsy/awkwardly placed to actually be useful for a light?
3. Are the SierraPapa upgrades really worth the price, and, if I were to consider any, which should I consider first?

Thanks!

PS - I'm very aware of the other PCC options out there, but something about the Beretta "calls" me to it. So, whatevs.

I don't see the purpose of SBRing a CX4. It is already pretty compact. As for the little rail, I never use it. It just seems silly. There is a three rail add-on that is much better.

I am also looking at a CX4 just waiting on the Buds price to drop again right now they want $819. Prices seem to go up and down on the model that uses 92 mags. From what I found during my research the sierra papa trigger is worth the extra money, I am passing on the other upgrades. As far as SBRing a cx4 it is already the same size or slightly shorter than a 11.5 inch barreled ar. I see no reason to sbr it.

One question I do have I was reading the manual online it says not to use +p or +p+ ammo and it goes on to say not to use 9mm subgun ammo. Do they mean the standard nato 9mm rd? This sorta through me.

I have owned and used a CX-4 since they first came out some years back. Stone reliable. Its very short and compact and I see no really good reason to SBR it.
The pull out rail...never used it. I has mounting holes on each side in the front and mine came with one of the mounts for me to install on either side. Don't know if they still do that or not, however. I  have never had cause to spend the money on that three rail thing. I love the CX-4 nice and light and uncluttered as it was made.

As for the trigger:  The CX-4 trigger is....well...unique.  I have lived with it for all these years and gotten use to it. I did to the DIY home brew trigger job that only take five or ten minutes and is just all too simple. I saw no use to spend the big bucks on that SP trigger. Now, users of the SP trigger say its the cat's ass but it cost so much!  I did my trigger and its fine for me. YMMV

I have owned more than seven PCCs including two 9mm ARs.  I would take the CX-4 over the AR 9mm any day. I sold both my 9mm AR's but kept my CX-4 Storm...that says it all.

I see a very good reason to SBR it.  If SBR'd when you add a suppressor it brings the OAL back to what it would be "without" the suppressor.  Don't know about you but any pistol caliber weapon I may use "indoors" for HD is suppressed.  That way you don't go deaf and you are not temporarily blinded by the flash.

I have had my CX4 Storm for a couple of years and have not had one problem. I have kept mine stock, no SP upgrades. I did the do it yourself trigger job and it does make a difference. Would recommend this gun to anybody looking for a carbine.

I use the rail in the front for a TLR-1 light.  It is fine for the purpose and the switch is easy to operate in that location.

Things I like about my Storm:
1. Chrome lined barrel.
2. Reliability with lots of different loads.
3. Accuracy.
4. Weight distribution due to the loaded magazine being basically in the center of the weapon.
5. Sights fold down out of the way, cause you are going to want to mount a red dot on it.
6. 30 round factory mags.
7. It is stubby enough that making it an SBR is not necessary, except I suppose if you were going to mount a suppressor on it.
8. You can switch ejection over to the other side without tools, so it is very lefty friendly.  

Things I don't like:
1. Trigger pull.  I tried to improve it with a little judicious shaving using an exacto knife, but it did not improve it enough for my tastes.  The factory trigger/hammer design has lots of little weenie plastic parts in it.  The hammer is plastic so it has basically no mass.  That meant it needed a strong spring to get reliable ignition.  All of that resulted in a pull that was heavy, creepy, gritty and spongy.  Sierra Papa installed their metal trigger parts and now the trigger pull is GTG.
2. Cost.  Once you add the Sierra Papa parts you are approaching 9mm AR costs.  
3. I am on the fence about the looks of the Storm.  The thumbhole stock works OK but it reminds me of the dark days of the Ban Era.

The gun will function while absolutely filthy, so that is something I like.  It makes a great firearm to train new shooters.  With a red dot on it and some steel plates they instantly connect and that builds confidence while keeping things fun.  My daughter loves to shoot it.

The Storm is a gun I almost always bring to the range.  

i gotta agree with everything in this thread, good and bad. The few weaknesses of the Storm (trigger & fixed D hole stock) don't compare to the strengths of this carbine. Besides it's overall short length I like the grip magwell, I know it's not as 'natural' to mag change but when running a 30 round mag keeping that extra weight & length closer to your body is a plus in close quarters. My only other complaint is the length of the upper rail, although it's plenty for a red dot/reflex sight it's a little short for anything bigger than a compact scope. The factory irons aren't much to brag about but they work and can be flipped down if not needed, a red dot like a TRS-25 will cowitness and a high rise see thru mount will just barely allow the factory irons to work. I prefer a reflex sight for faster targeting but mine is accurate enough to make good use of a compact 2-6x28 scope at 100 yards.

I'm in the no need to SBR it camp, other than the OAL with a can.  You could save a few inches, but an SBR'd CX4 isn't much shorter than a SBR's AR. Here's my 10.5" Sig, CX4 & 12" LT Stealth:



Now next to my 7.5" AR there is a big difference.

Also, wouldn't 922r come into play here?

The upper is actually the serialized part. Kind of like a Ruger MK series pistol. Good thing is if you wanted to send your lower to have SierraPapa do the install/work, you wouldn't have to worry about it.

The rail is flimsy, and in a bad spot. If you get the rail kit (two sides and the bottom), why use that one when you have three others that are more secure and further away from the barrel (less of a shadow)?

Depends on the upgrades you are talking about...

The buffer, guide rod, and bolt link... I'd say definitely. Improved the reliability (if the bolt link goes, your gun doesn't work anymore) and lessens the chance of damage (if you pull the trigger before disassembly, the standard assembly could break when you remove the lower from the upper, since the bolt handle will pin the bolt, and the hammer will continue to move; the hammer will take the buffer and the end of the guide rod with it). Do you need it? No, but I'd strongly recommend it. I have the bolt link, which I modified to use with a Bedair guide rod (still uses standard buffers).

The charging handle is more of a personal decision. Don't know about the sear clip, as it doesn't pertain to my gun (mine is in the low 700s serial range). The trigger and hammer is what most people talk about...

I used my CX4 for years before I installed the entire kit. The trigger will smooth out with use, and it is capable of decent results in its stock form. I'm sorry, but from how a lot of people describe the changes that the SierraPapa kit makes, it seems to imply that the stock trigger is unusable. It worked, however, it is far from a match trigger. Think of standard AR parts kit trigger compared to a Geissele.

The SierraPapa kit gives you a match trigger. That is kind of apparent when you look at the price. Trigger pulls are night and day when you compare stock and SierraPapa (I will also say that there is a noticeable difference between new triggers and ones that are broken in). As I already mentioned, I own the kit. Very happy with the results, but I'd recommend putting money into the upgrades I mentioned earlier first, then shoot your gun. When it breaks in, see if you are happy with it or want to squeeze some more performance out of it. I'm sorry, but I cannot recommend a $175 upgrade without describing all that and making sure the buyer realizes that it is just a match trigger upgrade.

Am I saying SierraPapa is garbage? NOT AT ALL! They make great products and the kit is definitely one of them. I am happy with mine. But if someone has issues shooting a CX4, it isn't likely going to be the solution. Or if you don't care about the trigger pull... or better yet, aren't going to adjust the trigger when you install the kit. If you are confident with your CX4, and want to squeeze a little more performance out, then it is a good buy.

Ah, very good point. I imagine I'd need to pick up some SP parts to keep it legal if I were to SBR it.

Thanks for all the responses everyone, I appreciate it.

I'm thinking the best route at the moment is to get the bone-stock CX4, go with a Primary Arms red dot (can't go wrong there, amiright?), and make myself look like a complete tool by installing one of those MFIAP barrel shrouds. Because, TBH, they really do look sweet. Spacegun sweet.

Also - thanks for the info on the serialized part. That's been a little tough to find. I should note that my house is really tight and broken up being an 1840s New England Cape so the shorter the better.

That's what I have on mine, the 'Colonial Marine' Battlestar Galactica version. Mine was purchased used and had a good deep scratch along most of the length of the exposed barrel. Wanted something to cover it up besides painting it with Alumi Black and didn't want a fake can, their shroud did the trick and doesn't add much weight or bulk to the front. MFIAP makes nice stuff for the money, and it's not loosened up after years of use.

I think the assesement of the Storm trigger posted above is spot on, SP makes the best accessories for a Storm but I have a hard time forking out that kind of money for a trigger upgrade, I think that could be spent better on optics or the SP internal upgrades, althoug mine is a early model with all stock internals except for doing the trigger mod to lighten the trigger pull and it's given me no trouble. A brand new stock Storm trigger is still better than the Tapco G2 trigger on my AK, and that's considered a good AK trigger.

All You Seek Can Be Found Here.

I have the vented barrel shroud on both my CX4's to prevent any scratches or damage.

Don't tell anyone, I have the BSG shroud in the safe too.

I just got back from the range and it was C-O-L-D.

Two accessories you need for your Storm is a brass catcher and a Maglula loading tool.  The Beretta 30rd mags are unbelievably stiff to load and the Lula loader is a necessity in my book.

I use this brass catcher:
https://www.primaryarms.com/Caldwell_AR_15_Brass_Catcher_Mesh_p/cal122-231.htm

It is meant for an AR-15.  You just turn it over and mount the velcro strap to the stock.  It catches all the 9mm cases in a mesh bag.  No muss, no fuss.  If you reload it is a big benefit to not have to pick empties out of the snow.

Hi guys just purchased a cx4 storm with 5 17rd mags from botach tactical $579 shipped. But it is the px4 mag model but I plan on buying the conversion parts for the 92mags for around $50. That will still make this a great buy,  cheapest I have seen in awhile. Ill update you when it gets here an if I do any mods.

P.S. I have already received my Battle star shroud!!

Pretty good deal, congrats.  Mine is also the PX4 mag version but I still haven't looked into mag conversion yet.  Let me know where you get one & if you decide to sell the PX4 mags...

Just based on what I've read, you may have a wait to buy one. Some Beretta accessories are only made once/year in limited numbers, like their carbine kit for the Neos. I've read quite a few threads asking why they can't find one of these adaptor kits. But yea, even factoring in the cost of a kit that's an excellent deal, and if you don't need the 30 round factory mags or own a 92 there's no pressing need to upgrade.

I was a retard and sold my 3rd CX-4 before the CT ban (a trade and pre Sandy Hook)...  It is very light and compact, and if I still had it, it would be my home GTG and not my CMMG MK-9... Not dogging my 9 AR's, it's just a much more compact, light, handy gun...  Did I mention I am a freakin moron? Buy the damn gun, thank me later.

added: when I say 9 AR's I mean 9 of them and not 9mm....lol Only have one of those (soon to be 2 with the 9mm pistol I'm building)...

I found the parts they are in stock on the Beretta website you need the mag well and the mag release button. Reg price is $48 for both but they have a 10% off coupon on the side bar. So I am getting them for $43 plus shipping. SO I got this set up so far for $681 or so that is the carbine, battle star shroud, mag conversion. And my FFL charges no transfer fee he is great about this but just about everyone buys extra stuff from him when they pick up their firearms so in the end he probably earns more money. And he has earned all my business.  I do give him a chance to match,  beat or if he gets reasonably close I purchase the firearms from him. He has a rocking business and probably was a smart move on his part offering free transfers.

Keep us informed how it goes.

Well guys it looks like Botach Tactical is playing games as usual. This is the first time I have experienced their sorry service I have had great luck with orders in the past.  Ordered the CX4 on march 5 still no shipping confirmation. They are also not responding to emails or phone messages. Cant even get a human on the phone. Hope no one else followed me down this rabbit hole. I gave them 24hrs or I will cancel the order via my credit card company.

My Cx4 is my bump in the night gun.  I have a Beretta 30 rd mag in it with a spare 18 rd Mec Gar in a pouch on it.  I have my Streamlight mounted on the "flimsy" pop out rail.  It works for me.  Like others have said, the trigger sucks, but it can be mastered.  The gun, bad trigger and all, is a freaking laser out to 50 yds.  These low prices on them now has me thinking I need another one.

Px4 rifle owner here, just because I jumped before I read! Then I bought a px4 pistol just because.

My plan all along has been to sbr it(saw a pic and fell in love)and I know schaffenblatt from the beretta forum so I'll see about sending it to him for "the operation".

Thanks guys.

Btw, love the gun even though it's only seen one session!

Picking up another one (sold my last one in a moment of weakness) for a great price tonight. It comes with nothing but a single magazine so I"m going to need a couple 30 rounders and whatever other accessories are necessary.

Did you guys have a link to this trigger job that we can do ourselves?

Also considered SBRing it but my scorpion is a bit smaller so it might fill that void (stamp should be back this week).

Because I love my CX-4 so much and anyone who owns one has shown superior good tastes in firearms...here is your link:

CX-4 DIY trigger job...

This is super simple but pay attention to detail and go easy!  Do a little at a time and don't over do it. Take a little off then test it. Don't remove too much or you can get a trigger that releases "too easy"...as in shoots when you didn't intend to shoot!  You are not going to make it a 2 lbs. trigger but it will be much improved over factory. Also, it does get smoother with age and use. I did  mine some years back and it has worked very reliably and never given me drama. It is MUCH better than factory and I skipped the Sierra Pappa metal trigger parts after doing this five minute modification.

Those mags alone are worth 120.

 

I have NEVER seen the CX4 anywhere near that cheap. Usually they are in the 680 - 850 range.


My guess is they made a mistake and it wasn't actually for sale at that price.  Even USED that would be a steal and then some.

Thank you sir!

Mine also came without a top rail which is odd haha. I see they sell them for $67 or so. I will probably get one.

My CX-4 came without a top rail as when they first came out it was an accessory part. By-the-way, when you install the top rail I would put a little Loc-Tite on the threads. They will work loose in time if you do not. Ask me how I know!  

My CX-4 has been a dependable little carbine for many years now. I have learned to work with the trigger and other than that I can say nothing bad about them.

Til recently no CX4 shipped with a top rail, only available as an accessory.

When they got a facelift a few years ago it was my understanding that they all came with the top rail attached from the factory.

If I remember correctly, the factory rail is polymer but there was a guy selling an aluminum version of the top rail three or four years ago.

I'm glad you all have good things to say about these guys.  I was at the gun show today and on a whim I picked one of these up for $500.  It was new with the case 1 92f mag, price sounded reasonable so I decided to FO

The charging handle seems like its on the wrong side.

Buy another handle and install it on the other side.
Get both!
That's what I did with my Storms.

What all parts would you need???  I have one I've been wanting to SBR and put my Can on, but the "922r part count" confuses me...



 

Here is mine with a tirant 9 can on the end.  Quiet accurate fun.  Only about 2 inches longer then a 16in AR15.



Sounds great love being able to take kids out and not have to police them as much about ear plugs.  She's only 2 1/2 so it's a challenge to get her to keep the ear plugs in.

1. I believe it will be the UPPER which is the serialized part of that gun. I do not know for certain. Like someone else said, I see very little to be gained by cutting off a couple inches of barrel, The gun as is is already shorter OAL and lighter than most SBR'd 9mm ARs. You also avoid all the hastles of owning and transporting an NFA weapon.

2. I have never used it. It seems a little stupid. A light will likely be too far out to operate the controls unless you rig a remote switch back to the stock.

3. Mine is factory stock and has NEVER jammed in over 5K rounds since I bought it brand new. The trigger is heavy but I don't mind that on a HD weapon and I shoot mine very accurately as is.

Wow really....  That's a bit dramatic...  What hassles have you experienced owning an NFA item???
The hurdle is figuring out the 922r crap (on imported weapons only) and then filing out the form 1 or 4 for registration/Approval,



Then, after approval is had, Other than going out of state, there really are no hassles too owning a NFA weapon...
 

Try the beretta owners forum, lots of good info on SBR'ing and adding silencers to Storms. Lots of info on how to stay 922r compliant.
While I agree there's not a whole lot to be gained by cutting down a Storm barrel a lot of people have done it before.

I took the CX4 out for the first time over the weekend.  It shot great and was easily able to hit plates at 50 yards right out of the box.  I wanted to go back further but ran out of ammo.  We put about 100 trouble free rounds threw it, I was even able to get my wife to shoot it.  I'm hopping this will get her out a little more.

Rules are rules - You can see the brass in the air just below her left hand.



The targets on our range.

cav01c14, did you need to remove the barrel to thread it?
Thanks.

eta

Did you shorten the barrel any more than necessary? I'm thinking I would mount a FH/mount like a 51T and shorten the barrel so it maintains the required 16" length with the mount.

Hope this helps:

Josh at AGW and Tornado Technologies in OR are handling sbr transformations, after your paperwork is completed.

What all parts are they using to make it 922r Compliant???



 

No tango la minor idea.
Contact Josh or Tornado and they will help you.

A buddy of mine(he's an ffl)told me he didn't think it mattered because is was SBR'd. I let him take his and roll the dice.

More info for the mix: I see lots of SBR'd SCARs. Are they mfg'd here? Are the Storms mfg'd here?
Wandering minds want to know!

Yea, same argument going with the CZ Scorpion Evo...  



CZ contacted the ATF, it does in fact matter...  Thats why they are holding off on selling the stock in the US, till they can get the 922r parts kit available (Their words off their site, not my mine)...
 

Thanks.

I will take a moment and contact Josh and ask some questions and post back.

Wrote him.

I think Tornado Technologies is set up better for this type of work. Josh doesn't seem to be into rifle work, from looking at his site.