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R-man
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Posted: 1/19/2014 5:48:21 AM
R-man
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Posted: 1/19/2014 6:12:47 AM
The forearm brace is constructed of a relatively hard, yet pliable rubber. From the side, it looks MUCH like another derivation of an M4 carbine buttstock, with the exception of the velcro strap running around the outside at the back. However, when viewed from the end, a VERY different story comes out:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140113_144901_zpswwo5c6d9.jpg

The thing about using the SIg forearm brace is that for straight up use, straight in front of the body, it's awkward...
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140117_132522_zpsfgo3hvbh.jpg

It's hard to see it in the pic above, but in order to line up the sights in front of your eyes, you end up trying to bend your arm in a way that mimics hyper-extending your elbow... VERY unnatural. I'm right handed, so instead of ripping my elbow out, I ended up laying my head over on my right shoulder, basically trying to bend my neck at almost 90 degrees.

This is the closest we came to a pic illustrating the above:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140117_132525_zpseugok0hi.jpg

When using the brace as it is intended, I ended up rotating it about 40 degrees counterclockwise:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140113_144705_zpsne7kqzqv.jpg


R-man
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Posted: 1/19/2014 6:29:43 AM
Sooooo.... this is a review, right?

Impressions:

This gun simply feels solid. I've shot a JRC. About 200 rounds through one of them. The TNW feels more solid to me than a JRC. The JRC is larger, blockier looking gun, but since the TNW is skinnier, when you pick it up it feels unexpectedly heavy... and that is a characteristic I WANT in this type of gun.

I've shot several Keltec Sub-2000s, both in 9mm and 40, and while I really want to like the keltec, I simply don't. It's so light that in my opinion, it creates a LOT of recoil impulse that's transferred to the shooter, obviating much of one of the primary reasons to want one in the first place. It simply kicks too much for a small pistol caliber weapon.

The TNW, because it IS heavier, kicks less, meaning I can manage recoil better and therefore keep it on target longer. Does it's weight make it almost MP5-like? Nope. Not gonna happen. But it does feel somewhere in between an MP5 and the snappy Keltec.

Here it is, shooting as a conventional pistol. Right out of the box, no adjustments to the sights done yet. I was aiming for the lower left Red diamond, shooting from about 20 yards, taking my time and slow-firing:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140113_131232_zpsizfr7qxh.jpg

Not bad, I think, for out of the box, shooting unsupported.
R-man
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Posted: 1/19/2014 6:37:43 AM
[Last Edit: 1/20/2014 7:46:16 AM by R-man]
Honestly, though, I didn't buy this pistol, or the forearm brace to shoot it 'conventionally.' I bought them to use together. As approved (tacitly, I'll grant) by the BATFe-as evidenced by the included letter.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140113_143316_zps2rpy54yw.jpg

Here we go:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140117_132458_zpsemou0vuf.jpg

Almost there:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140117_132500_zpspbjpa6lf.jpg



Results. Aiming at the biggest, center diamond:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140113_131229_zpsug1gctxm.jpg

R-man
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Posted: 1/19/2014 6:39:39 AM
[Last Edit: 1/19/2014 7:54:04 AM by R-man]
Post deleted.
R-man
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Posted: 1/19/2014 6:54:42 AM
[Last Edit: 1/19/2014 6:58:21 AM by R-man]
After my first range session with this gun I had 2 complaints:

1. The supplied Tapco grip is tapered, large on bottom and becoming smaller at the top.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140117_141855_zpsylyyshfx.jpg

Why does this matter? Most AR platform grips DO taper, after all... Well, the deal is that the point where the receiver meets the grip is about 1/4-3/8" larger than the grip, which forces the knuckle joint of my right hand to ride against the kinda sharp edge.....
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140113_143933_zpstbqemdhl.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140113_143943_zpsoryox5ww.jpg

I took that pic 5 or 6 times, but I never got one in focus. Suffice it to say that holding my grip like this:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140113_143947_zps7oh6tgos.jpg
was difficult-to-impossible.

At then end of that first day, I was NOT happy with the supplied grip. I would tend to doubt that TNW reads these forums, and I would likewise doubt that I'm the only guy to have this problem with this gun (my brother and a friend shot it too, and they had the same problem), so I'm going to call Mark at TNW and send him this thread in email form, too...

HOWEVER, not being one to sit and whine that something is less than perfect and do nothing but cry about it, I solved the problem for ~$33 with shippin. http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-forend-parts/grips/pistol-grips/ar-15-m16-spr-pistol-grip-spr-handgrip-sku936-001-015-14294-33711.aspx

That oughta do it:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140117_141926_zpsqrpsdlym.jpg


Sierra Precision:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140117_142011_zpsjnqzwech.jpg

On the gun, Sweet Relief:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140117_142317_zps6vcbbchn.jpg

R-man
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Posted: 1/19/2014 7:31:27 AM
Complaint #2

Trigger.

The stock trigger feel is fine. While it's certainly not 1911-esque in it's break-over, or feel, it's certainly on par with guns such as the JRC and Keltec.

However, the cut, angle, and finish of the trigger are just about crap.

I can't get a good pic of why this trigger feels so crappy. It's skinny. Too skinny to me- and I'm a skinny guy... and yet, while it's skinny, the outside edges for the front of the trigger have a rise. Put another way, the center of the trigger feels recessed, like there is a low spot like a groove, running top to bottom through the center.

Here's a pic. It doesn't show what I'm talking about, but here it is, nonetheless:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140117_142422_zpsxducl0kj.jpg

If this were a stock AR trigger, I'd swap it out and be done with it. Since it's a completely different design, though, I'm going to have to do something else.

Monday morning I'm going to call TNW and order a backup trigger... and either tomorrow or whenever I get the time, I'm going to

First, file down the front sides of the stock trigger. If that doesn't do it for me- and due to the narrow profile I honestly don't think it will- I'm going to get a trigger shoe. I've done some preliminary research into shoes, and I don't yet have a good idea of which one I'm going to buy...


R-man
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Posted: 1/19/2014 7:43:42 AM
[Last Edit: 1/19/2014 7:46:24 AM by R-man]
Planned modifications to change/improve the gun, but not due to complaints:

Sights.

The sights that come with the pistol aren't really BUIS, they're BUPS (back up plastc sights).

They're fine for what they are... but as a BOB/general purpose gun, I plan on replacing the sights with true BUIS. I'm not a fan of plastic sights, and these in particular seem to be very flimsy- maybe I'm wrong about that, dunno- but they're gonna be replaced soon.


Magwell.

Again, nothing wrong here, per se, but I plan on beveling the magwell a bit with a dremel to facilitate faster and easier mag changes. Nothing radical, just a bit of smoothing.


Front of Magwell/grip...

The with my left hand holding the pistol on the front of the magwell, I don't have room for my entire hand. I want a more secure grip, so I'm going to modify a Mako MWG to fit:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/mako_zps14c81fcf.jpg


Lastly, I'm going to have the barrel threaded for my Liberty Mystic. Can't wait.


I'll report back here when I get some of the above done.


R-man
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Posted: 1/19/2014 7:50:53 AM
Bottom Line:

We went through almost 500 rounds on day 1:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/rmantoo/20140117_132749_zps5zr8zkv0.jpg


On my cheapy KCI 33rnd mags, we had 2 FTFs.

On my Glock mags, no FTFs or FTEs.

So, for ~$740 I've got a solid, reliable (so far) 9mm glock mag, stabilized, pistol platform. Happy, Happy, HAPPY.
die-tryin
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Posted: 1/19/2014 9:17:48 AM
yea, good luck with that whole "shoulder thingy going up"
There is no level playing field in life ~ Para069

code13
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Posted: 1/19/2014 10:40:07 AM
I was just about to post to see if anyone had an asp and question answered, next question is how long is the barrel? And is it marked as a pistol?
forever4
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Posted: 1/19/2014 11:27:20 PM
I have been living with the rifle version of one of these since they first came out. My SN put mine in the first 200 built, it came in with the second batch at the distributor if I recall.

You did a good job on the post, lots of good pictures. I would say this. I would never post or even allow someone to photograph me holding that thing up to my shoulder. You do what you want but really...don't ask for trouble. Some ATF guy out there is just salivating right now thinking about that picture and what he could do with it. A local shop who is BIG on internet sales nationwide got one of the first Sigs with that stock. They had it registered as an SBR just in case.

I agree with most of what you say about the ASR. I have written a bit about it myself. And, TNW does see what goes on here. The first time I met up with them a year ago they were familiar with some of my posts I had done.I fist saw the pistol last Fall at Knob Creek when they were there. I had time to chat with the designer of the firearm and we shared some ideas.

Yes, the trigger needs some work and yes there are things that are not perfect. I can say that about every firearm I own. But this platform could have a future.The grip is certainly easy to change and they wisely used a standard AR type mount so you have a large selection of options. Also, It was designed with room to grow, just look at how they over built that receiver. I like that you can swap a few parts and change calibers between .40 and 9mm. They are also working on a .22 kit for it. That shouldn't be too far off as the plans were supposedly finalized some months back. A .22 version will be great for affordable practice time.

Enjoy your new toy....looks nice.

An Army Veteran and proud of it. NRA Life member as we all should be.
sharkey00
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Posted: 3/14/2014 11:12:18 PM
Any further thoughts on the ASP? Bought one today and should be shipped here next week.
upnorthbacon
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Posted: 3/15/2014 4:08:34 AM
I would also be careful modifying the brace for an extended length of pull like you did, might void the ATF letter that it's not a brace then? Just a thought.
backbencher
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:07:44 AM
The BATFE made their bed now let them lie in it. OP, good review.
Volunteer for the Feinstein project - help build a functional AR lower out of plastic building blocks! www.FeinsteinProject.org
forever4
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Posted: 3/15/2014 10:37:10 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By backbencher:
The BATFE made their bed now let them lie in it. OP, good review.


History has shown us that BATFE has backtracked and changed their minds before, sometimes costing people and companies big time. Go read about that Ruger 10/22 bumbfire type stock they approved but then made the company buy them all back.
die-tryin
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Posted: 3/15/2014 11:17:54 AM
Better yet. Go read about 80-90% lowers that are in the news.
There is no level playing field in life ~ Para069

backbencher
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Posted: 3/15/2014 1:03:42 PM
Oh, I'm quite aware of the clusterfuck called the BATFE. Sometimes, they screw up so badly an entire industry is born. We wouldn't have 80% plastic receivers if they had made Colt put the S/N on the right part in 1963.
Volunteer for the Feinstein project - help build a functional AR lower out of plastic building blocks! www.FeinsteinProject.org
MattNificent
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Posted: 3/15/2014 5:58:16 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By backbencher:
Oh, I'm quite aware of the clusterfuck called the BATFE. Sometimes, they screw up so badly an entire industry is born. We wouldn't have 80% plastic receivers if they had made Colt put the S/N on the right part in 1963.


what would the right part have been?
backbencher
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Posted: 3/15/2014 11:30:43 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By MattNificent:
Originally Posted By backbencher:
Oh, I'm quite aware of the clusterfuck called the BATFE. Sometimes, they screw up so badly an entire industry is born. We wouldn't have 80% plastic receivers if they had made Colt put the S/N on the right part in 1963.


what would the right part have been?


Nearly every other rifle I can think of has the serial number on the part that holds the barrel. I'm grateful they made the mistake, but it clearly was a doozy with amazing and unforseen consequences.
Volunteer for the Feinstein project - help build a functional AR lower out of plastic building blocks! www.FeinsteinProject.org
Spitfire2626
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Posted: 3/16/2014 1:56:58 AM
Very nice, this turned out to be a pretty neat little project. When I bought my ASR, the pistol versions weren't around otherwise I might have gone that route. Mine is a registered SBR and I am waiting to get it back from the gunsmith. They are going to chop the barrel to 8" and thread it for a suppressor. I have a 45 conversion kit as well that will be getting chopped in the near future and I will get the 22 as well when it comes out. Cool gun...
code13
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Posted: 3/16/2014 8:19:11 AM
to be honest it dose look like it was meant to be a 10in barrel to get the the best effect of ammo and size. do to the unfortunate state of tax stamps the pistol would be the best being that you can change caliber and still have 20+ round mags ready to go.
DocNugent
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:53:46 PM
The pix R-man posted no longer show up and he doesn't answer email or IM, so I'm wondering if anyone might have downloaded those pix onto their computer back when they were visible.

If so, could you either repost them in this thread or contact me so I can get copies via email.

Thanks from a new ASP owner who's hungry to learn.
DocNugent
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Posted: 4/21/2014 6:18:41 PM
The questions I have for those who've put a SB15 on a ASR/ASP are:

1) Do you ". . . need to take the padding off of the balance weight . . ." .(buffer tube) before installing the SB15? R-man posted that he just pushed his out of the way; the TNW manager was the one who said to take the padding off entirely . . . .

2) Do you need to put talcum/baby powder inside the brace before installing it as I've seen on youtube? Seems like it'd make a mess . . . .

Thanks.
DocNugent
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Posted: 4/28/2014 6:08:04 PM
Without pix or advice to guide me, I went ahead and affixed the Sig SB15 brace to my ASP.. Here's what I learned:

1. You have to remove the foam cover on the buffer tube (I had to cut mine off as it wouldn't slide off whole).
2. You have to remove the sling loop from the end of the buffer tube (it's push button mounted).
3. You can then slide the SB15 onto the buffer tube (use of talcum powder is recommended).

However . . .
Even with the powder, I could only get mine on about 4" (totally on would be 6.5"), so when my forearm is inside the brace, the backend of the brace is nearly to my elbow rather than mid-forearm as most pix show it. It's tight on the buffer tube in the current position, though, so I'm comfortable with using it that way - it just looks like an adjustable stock in an extended position now (about 2.5" of bare buffer tube is exposed between the receiver and SB15).

I think if the SB15 were on the tube fully, you could reattach the sling loop.
R-man
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Posted: 6/27/2014 2:51:34 PM
Dunno why my pics disappeared? I'll repost them in a bit...


I also dunno why I don't get pms? Or emails? I don't even see a control panel (for lack of better term) or button above for pms?


Any way...

The only reason you would need to remove the foam to put the brace on is if you want the brace to go all the way flush with the front of the buffer tube.... I wanted my brace to be as far BACK as possible, so I left the foam on to act as a spacer.

After having put SB15s on 5 pistols now, the easiest way to install one that I've found is:

FIRST MAKE SURE IT"S UNLOADED, bolt back/empty chamber, NO MAG, yada yada yada... don't shoot yourself

1. Put talcum powder on the inside of SB15, and the buffer tube.
2. Get the SB15 on the buffer tube just an inch or two- however far it will easily go.
3. Stand the pistol up on a STURDY table/surface (I use my reloading/workbench)
4. I get my upper body over the pistol, place my right hand on the pistol grip, but with my palm upside down, and 180degrees out of normal (think of doing a hand stand, with your right hand using the pistol grip of the upright pistol instead of the ground), and my left hand holding the forearm.
5. PUSH. Hard. Slight rocking back and forth.
6. If you have an air compressor, have a buddy/wife/gf hit the top of the brace with blasts of air- just like they do for putting on bicycle and tennis racquet foam grips. This part makes it MUCH easier to get the brace onto tight or, A2 style buffer tubes.

I'll get to the pics hopefully tonight or tomorrow...
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