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Posted: 5/15/2012 7:21:38 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT |
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Posted: 5/15/2012 7:49:46 PM
Rumor over on the Beretta board is that it's been D/C'd, officially or not, but it gets swatted down as "just a rumor" every time by those who are supposed to know.
I love mine and, from what I read everywhere, I'm glad I'm not hunting for another one right now... |
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Posted: 5/15/2012 9:53:11 PM
I love my 92 version. I only wish the iron sights were better. Awesome carbine to team with the matching pistol. Get one, grab it, do whatever you need to do to get one! My cx has ate every round of ammo, every type, low cost, high end and reloads
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Posted: 5/16/2012 8:50:10 AM
I had one of the very fist ones that hit the market here in Dallas. A month later it burned in a car crash. I just got a Px4 in 9mm and want to use the same mags. So you are saying the older ones used 92 mags and the newer ones use the Px4? I was thinking they would use either one?
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Posted: 5/16/2012 9:46:34 AM
Originally Posted By Texasupton1: I had one of the very fist ones that hit the market here in Dallas. A month later it burned in a car crash. I just got a Px4 in 9mm and want to use the same mags. So you are saying the older ones used 92 mags and the newer ones use the Px4? I was thinking they would use either one? The magwell can be changed out to use the different types of mags. They make one that uses 92 mags, one that uses PX4 mags, and one that uses Cougar mags. |
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Posted: 5/16/2012 10:02:55 AM
I had one. Worst excuse for a trigger on any gun I've ever shot, and the only gun I've ever sold.
I know I will be in the tiny majority here, but I thought it was a gimmicky piece of garbage. |
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Posted: 5/16/2012 10:19:02 AM
Originally Posted By widerstehe: ... Worst excuse for a trigger on any gun I've ever shot... You haven't shot enough guns. It isn't a very good trigger without some work or modification, but it is adequate and there are far worse out there. |
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Posted: 5/16/2012 3:22:02 PM
[Last Edit: 5/16/2012 3:23:11 PM by forever4]
Here is what is known: They are currently hard to find but if you call the right people they are out there. (Check Knob Creek...they had a couple of them a week ago)
There was a big contract to build 30,000 of them in full auto for India ( I believe) for their military or police. Its said that a shipment is due in this fall to the US. After that shipment there is a chance they won't be produced for this market any more. As for the trigger. I took ten minutes with a little file and made the trigger a BUNCH nicer. There is an aftermarket trigger available also. I got my CX-4 years ago when they first came out. (I would be ashamed to tell how much they cost then...it would just upset people). I play with it in spats sometimes letting it sit for months. But I wouldn't sell it, its an old and dear friend that shoots great and never lets me down. I have six different 9mm carbines of various makes and styles and the little Beretta is my favorite of the bunch. Its not perfect but none of the others are either. But it has a lot going for it and its a nice compact, well balanced and dependable firearm. If anyone thinks they might want one keep an eye out. I will bet that a year or two from now the price will go up even more if the supply dries up. |
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Posted: 5/19/2012 3:13:14 PM
It's a fun little carbine. Too bad they never made one that takes high cap mags in .45ACP. That would be a must for me!
I just put silicon grease on the sear and the trigger became a whole different animal. No permanent modifications made. |
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Posted: 5/20/2012 3:40:20 PM
Over on the Beretta forum (www.berettaforum.net) there has also been speculation that the CX4 will be discontinued some next year. This is bolstered by the impending 2013-2014 introduction of the ARX-160. I just don't think Beretta sees much of a market for a pcc especially one at the price of the CX4 and is planning on phasing it out in favor of the ARX. I've had my CX4 for about three years and it's one of my favorite carbines. Sadly, it has been overpriced and under appreciated lately.
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Posted: 5/21/2012 9:40:31 PM
[Last Edit: 5/21/2012 9:41:40 PM by HarrishMasher]
It is too bad that Pistol Caliber Carbines just don't do well in the mass firearm market. If they did well, everyone would make them. Just like every firearm manufacturer makes ARs.
It seems like every time a firearm manufacturer introduces a PCC, it doesn't do very well, and it gets discontinued. It's unfortunate that PCCs are under-appreciated. My PC9 is one of my favorite carbines, it sees as much range time as my ARs, and serves as my home defense rifle. My ARs would blow my eardrums out and no doubt be very disorienting firing indoors without hearing protection. The manufacturers need to market PCCs based on hearing safety for home-defense...maybe that would help sales. |
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Posted: 5/22/2012 5:27:59 AM
How about a PCC in a round that shoots flatter and farther like a 762x25. I would buy another storm if it was available in the round. I'd buy a matching pistol also.
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Posted: 5/23/2012 2:30:14 PM
Sorry guys, I just gave up on the storm and ordered me a JSE 9mm upper on a CMMG lower.
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Posted: 5/23/2012 2:40:15 PM
I'll just add that they were picked up for a national police force recently.
I think central american. |
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Posted: 5/23/2012 7:26:57 PM
[Last Edit: 5/23/2012 7:34:28 PM by forever4]
There really isn't a big market for PCC's. Look at the history of these things. Marlin and Ruger both tried back in the 80's and 90's and their rifles, the PC9/PC40 and the Camp 9 and 45 carbines, just never took off. Same thing happened to the Ruger 44 Mag carbine some years before. (Now that was a great rifle for hunting). There are many reasons why these things didn't fly but the biggest is also the most simple: People just didn't buy them in big enough numbers to make it worthwhile to produce them. Of course this is a double whammy as the fewer you make the more expensive they are to produce. Ruger, Marlin, and Beretta all pushed the PCC concept with police department and some even tried them. But, after a time the LE sales just never took off as the AR drew more fans both inside and outside the LE arena.
So, while there are those of us who love the PCC's there are far more who just don't see a place for them. Me, I have my six 9mm carbines...and I have another one or two models on my "want" list if the right deals came along. But they are just not for everyone. I believe Beretta will stop selling the CX-4 when it has another "tactical" rifle to offer up. That is about a year or so away if the rumors are even close to the truth. BTW, back when they first came out I got the first 9mm Beretta that showed up in my neck of the woods. I think it was like $499 or so. But that was some years back. Mine is a very low serial number...very low. I am keeping it! It uses the same 92 series Beretta mags that my Kel-Tec Sub2k uses. ARX-160.....????....I would bet a "cold one" that this rifle may show up here. Beretta says they will be offering a .22 version of it later this year. I think the NATO ammo version one may follow. They know they will sell FAR more of those than they do the PCC Storm. |
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Posted: 5/24/2012 12:41:05 AM
I wanted one until the price went from $500-600, sometimes with a free rail package to over $800 with no free goodies...
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Posted: 5/24/2012 9:41:57 AM
Venezuelan National Guard |
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Posted: 5/24/2012 9:35:05 PM
I think there is a market. Just not for the CX4. Beretta has priced themselves out of the market.
Originally Posted By forever4:
There really isn't a big market for PCC's. Look at the history of these things. Marlin and Ruger both tried back in the 80's and 90's and their rifles, the PC9/PC40 and the Camp 9 and 45 carbines, just never took off. Same thing happened to the Ruger 44 Mag carbine some years before. (Now that was a great rifle for hunting). There are many reasons why these things didn't fly but the biggest is also the most simple: People just didn't buy them in big enough numbers to make it worthwhile to produce them. Of course this is a double whammy as the fewer you make the more expensive they are to produce. Ruger, Marlin, and Beretta all pushed the PCC concept with police department and some even tried them. But, after a time the LE sales just never took off as the AR drew more fans both inside and outside the LE arena. So, while there are those of us who love the PCC's there are far more who just don't see a place for them. Me, I have my six 9mm carbines...and I have another one or two models on my "want" list if the right deals came along. But they are just not for everyone. I believe Beretta will stop selling the CX-4 when it has another "tactical" rifle to offer up. That is about a year or so away if the rumors are even close to the truth. BTW, back when they first came out I got the first 9mm Beretta that showed up in my neck of the woods. I think it was like $499 or so. But that was some years back. Mine is a very low serial number...very low. I am keeping it! It uses the same 92 series Beretta mags that my Kel-Tec Sub2k uses. ARX-160.....????....I would bet a "cold one" that this rifle may show up here. Beretta says they will be offering a .22 version of it later this year. I think the NATO ammo version one may follow. They know they will sell FAR more of those than they do the PCC Storm. |
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Posted: 5/24/2012 10:11:39 PM
Originally Posted By inmyshadow:
I think there is a market. Just not for the CX4. Beretta has priced themselves out of the market. I disagree... Personally, I rather (and did) spend the extra for a CX4 than a KelTec or a HiPoint. The HiPoint works, but I'm not interested in just 10 rounders. The KelTec is an ok design, however I dislike the way it operates (no bolt lock on last round, which I never liked on H&Ks either; awkward charging handle). Back when I was in school, a lot of my friends got pistol carbines to go to the range with (before everyone could buy handguns, and prior to the local ranges allowing rifle ammo to be used). For the ones who got CX4s, nobody was unhappy with them. KelTecs were reliable, if you can work with the design. The HiPoints were hit or miss; out of a few that got them (four in the group I’m mentioning), two sold them for CX4s. Now, a CX4 allows for different configurations for operation. Want to let the bolt go forward like a handgun (slide release; right side only, though)? You can do it. Want to pull back on the charging handle like other designs? You can do that. Another great aspect is the ambidextrous design. A lefty can configure the bolt so it ejects to the left, or can leave it ejecting right. Charging handles can be ran on either side... or both. If Beretta changed it to operate similarly to the ARX-160 (button to change ejection), it would be awesome... but likely would put it into the $1,500 range. To me, I see that as the area where it would be priced out of the market. |
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Posted: 7/7/2012 2:57:58 PM
Just pickdd one up today!
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Posted: 7/7/2012 4:05:08 PM
I believe the demand is tied to several factors
1) Caliber-9 is a natural but if you own a 40 (or are the LE market) you want that and 45 acp is a natural if the mfg offers short barrels (for folks with proper paperwork) 2) Ease of acomadateing different sight systems. Beretta playing around with now you get a rail,now you don't got uggly 3) Ejection and controls on both sides. some folks want to go the other way!. 4) availability of magazines . The glock mags would be ideal. Available , reasonable,easy to load and short ones available for NY and folks who want to shoot prone or off the bench. 5) reasonable cost- every time some mfg starts to hit on most of the above desireable features the cost starts to get silly. |
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Posted: 7/7/2012 7:44:22 PM
The last post hit an important point...when you put in all the features people want, the price goes through the roof. There are some NICE PCC's out there, like the HK but they are over a grand. Then, on the low end you have Hi Point and Kel-Tec. I own both...just because I enjoy them. (This is a hobby after all). Besides, I bought both new for less than what one Beretta cost and less than half of what one HK would be.
I have a lot of 9mm carbines, not all that I would like but enough to keep me occupied. I have to say my Beretta is my favorite. Why? Size, weight, handling, feel. As for magazines, people go crazy and want Glock mags. Well, some of us don't own Glocks. I do have a pile of Beretta 92's and that is what my Storm and my Kel-Tec take. There are factory 30 round mags available, and I have one. But, honestly I don't like them as they are way long and stick out there in the way. On the other hand, you can buy all the 92 Beretta magazines you want cheap. (Military surplus and others). My personal favorite is the MetGar (makes the factory Beretta mags) that come in 18 rounds and fit up in the mag well perfectly. Out of the way and 18 rounds is plenty for a range toy. Price is right on those too. So, Ruger and Marlin made nice PCC's and dropped them due to the high cost of building them pricing them out of the market. Kel-Tec did the same thing. I have one of the original Kel-Tec Sub9's and the one they sell today pales in comparison. The original had Last Round hold open, all metal construction, a lovely trigger, and more. The new ones were "improved". That is, they are now made of a lot of plastic, don't have the bolt hold open, cheaper sights, etc., etc. but the price is far less. They sell all they can make! Same for the Hi Point. They are always sold out. They are dirt cheap, the two I had were stone reliable, but they are crude compared to other rifles. But what the heck do you expect for $240? Its takes a lot of good design, compromise, and a lot of cheap plastic parts to make an "affordable" PCC. If they are cheap enough they sell like hot cakes....just try to find a Hi Point or Kel-Tec! If they are well made and nicely finished they are expensive and don't sell. I had hoped that Taurus would bring their PCC out as they had promised but sadly that got shelved before they ever hit the streets. Too bad, it seemed to have the right mix of looks, build quality and price to make a hit in the market place. So, as expensive as a Storm Beretta may seem, if you compare it to the other choices on the market....its a fair buy. I am just glad I got mine when it was under $500 new. Its shares space with the others mentioned plus my two AR 9mm and my 9mm Camp Rifle. Now, if I could just find a Camp .45 |
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Posted: 7/7/2012 8:11:10 PM
Battlestar Galactica was cancelled so nobody wants them anymore.
I think it's the price that's the problem. For $200 more I could have gotten a CX4 to go with my PX4 several years ago. Now for $800? No way, I can sell my PX4, pick up two Glocks and Two Kel-Tecs and still come out ahead.
$800 is WAAAYY too much for a PCC that doesn't have EVERYTHING I want on it out of the box that needs it's trigger messed with. For a little more savings, I can get a real AR or a 9 MM AR.
The had the sweet spot but seem to have abandoned it. |
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Posted: 7/7/2012 8:11:26 PM
Had an early one.
Paid not a lot brand new when they were not a lot. Used 92 mags and I had those cause I had a 92fs. Shot very well and was fun. I sold them both and I am a fool. Don't be a fool. |
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Posted: 7/9/2012 12:46:42 AM
In my collection I have two 9mm AR's that share range time with my CX-4 (and Kel-Tecs, HiPoint, and Marlin Camp Carbine). If I could only have one...after years of thinking about it, shooting them side by side, etc. I would have to say the Beretta is my favorite. Size, feel, build quality...those do it for me. Yes, I wish I had a better trigger but after a five minute DIY project its vastly better then the factory one. I can live with it.. I like all the other rifles too, but the little CX-4 just hits the sweet spot. YMMV
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Posted: 7/11/2012 2:34:22 PM
[Last Edit: 7/11/2012 2:40:29 PM by ijoftaa]
Originally Posted By forever4:
There really isn't a big market for PCC's. Look at the history of these things. Marlin and Ruger both tried back in the 80's and 90's and their rifles, the PC9/PC40 and the Camp 9 and 45 carbines, just never took off. Same thing happened to the Ruger 44 Mag carbine some years before. (Now that was a great rifle for hunting). There are many reasons why these things didn't fly but the biggest is also the most simple: People just didn't buy them in big enough numbers to make it worthwhile to produce them. Of course this is a double whammy as the fewer you make the more expensive they are to produce. Ruger, Marlin, and Beretta all pushed the PCC concept with police department and some even tried them. But, after a time the LE sales just never took off as the AR drew more fans both inside and outside the LE arena. So, while there are those of us who love the PCC's there are far more who just don't see a place for them. Me, I have my six 9mm carbines...and I have another one or two models on my "want" list if the right deals came along. But they are just not for everyone. I believe Beretta will stop selling the CX-4 when it has another "tactical" rifle to offer up. That is about a year or so away if the rumors are even close to the truth. BTW, back when they first came out I got the first 9mm Beretta that showed up in my neck of the woods. I think it was like $499 or so. But that was some years back. Mine is a very low serial number...very low. I am keeping it! It uses the same 92 series Beretta mags that my Kel-Tec Sub2k uses. ARX-160.....????....I would bet a "cold one" that this rifle may show up here. Beretta says they will be offering a .22 version of it later this year. I think the NATO ammo version one may follow. They know they will sell FAR more of those than they do the PCC Storm. cough, cough,... HK....cough, cough.... PCCs are in decent enough demand... I have owned an early 92 model CX4. these things are decent little shooters, but I believe that they have a few drawbacks that make them less desirable. A redesign to remove the front and rear post sights, in lue of a a full length rail system and pop up sights would make the sales of the CX4 take off. Lets face it, the design of the CX4 makes it a "Space" gun. Even the biggest "Space" gun on the planet, (FS2000) has a removable foregrip, with a rail system replacement. 2 Changes like that could make it start selling like ICE in Texas on the 4th of July. Hell, a factory flash supressor/muzzle brake would do wonders as wel. I'd probably shorten the barrel and pin the flash hider. Just one mans opinion. |
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