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Posted: 1/11/2017 3:33:39 AM EDT
Just recently picked up a 7.5" Colt SAA in 45LC. I'm really tempted to save up and grab me my first lever gun to accompany it. I've been thinking it may have to be the 1873 Winchester in 45LC with color case hardening since both guns came out that year.
How is the quality on the new productions? Seems like they're available on Gunbroker for about $1500 or so shipped.
But is it true that Winchester doesn't even make them anymore? They're made in Japan?
Link Posted: 1/11/2017 8:57:07 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Just recently picked up a 7.5" Colt SAA in 45LC. I'm really tempted to save up and grab me my first lever gun to accompany it. I've been thinking it may have to be the 1873 Winchester in 45LC with color case hardening since both guns came out that year.
How is the quality on the new productions? Seems like they're available on Gunbroker for about $1500 or so shipped.
But is it true that Winchester doesn't even make them anymore? They're made in Japan?
View Quote


Built by Miroku, quality is high. They build Brownings as well.
Link Posted: 1/11/2017 12:07:12 PM EDT
[#2]
The Winchester is really a 'Japchester' with Winchester stamped on it.  Another option is Uberti's great model 1873; made in Italy so it's a 'Wopchester'.  Anyway, I have both Uberti's 1866 19" Yellowboy carbine and 1873 24" Special Sporting rifle in 45 Colt.  They're great rifles and a lot of fun to shoot.  However, like the Colt, you need to keep them loaded with standard pressure (i.e. not +P or Ruger only) loads due to their action designs.  I shoot 255grn handloads in them as well as my SA Army version pistol.
Link Posted: 1/12/2017 1:27:07 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Just recently picked up a 7.5" Colt SAA in 45LC. I'm really tempted to save up and grab me my first lever gun to accompany it. I've been thinking it may have to be the 1873 Winchester in 45LC with color case hardening since both guns came out that year.
How is the quality on the new productions? Seems like they're available on Gunbroker for about $1500 or so shipped.
But is it true that Winchester doesn't even make them anymore? They're made in Japan?
View Quote


  I own two original '73 Winchesters in 38 WCF (1886 and 1888 prod.) a '73 Uberti in .44 Magnum, and once owned another '73 Uberti in .44 Special. The Uberti's and the original Winchesters are virtually identical although there may be some negligible differences in the bolt, not sure about that. At any rate in my experience the quality of the Uberti's is outstanding and that's the reason they're so popular with CAS competitors.

  Shortly after Winchester released their "new" '73 Winchester I saw a side-by-side comparison of the Winchester and the Uberti. One could tell the new Winchester at a glance because it has some very noticeable physical differences from the original Winchester; most notably a longer tang and a trigger that for some reason hangs out in the middle of the trigger guard, which is very cheesy looking IMHO.
Link Posted: 1/12/2017 1:50:02 AM EDT
[#4]
I just picked up a Winchester 73 in 45 Colt and it's great. Very nice quality and smooth action. Recoil feels like nothing. It's fast and accurate. I'd recommend it. Goes great with my cowboy revolver. I got a great deal off BudsGunShop.com so you might want to check there also. 
Link Posted: 1/12/2017 2:26:10 AM EDT
[#5]
Mine is a Deluxe Limited trapper in 357 Magnum. As far as I'm concerned it's the perfect levergun.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/4/2017 12:27:55 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Just recently picked up a 7.5" Colt SAA in 45LC. I'm really tempted to save up and grab me my first lever gun to accompany it. I've been thinking it may have to be the 1873 Winchester in 45LC with color case hardening since both guns came out that year.
How is the quality on the new productions? Seems like they're available on Gunbroker for about $1500 or so shipped.
But is it true that Winchester doesn't even make them anymore? They're made in Japan?
View Quote
Yes, made in Japan by Miroku, under license from Olin Corp. (owns the Winchester name).  Just like their mdl 94, 1885, 1886, 1892, & 1895.  They are of very high quality.  I have an 1885 in .45 Colt and an 1886 in .45-70 by Miroku, both marked "Browning".  (continued below):
Link Posted: 2/4/2017 12:29:10 AM EDT
[#7]
continued:

I also have a Rossi 1892 copy in .45 Colt.  It's arguably the strongest action in a levergun in a "pistol" caliber.  I can routinely shoot "Ruger only" type loads from my Rossi, something I'd never think of doing from my Uberti 1860 or 1873s.  But, be advised, the chambers in all leverguns chambered in .45 Colt have "generous" chambers.  They're within SAMMI specs, but on the max end.  Ergo, full power loads will serve you best in keep fouling out of the action.  Selection of powders that provide clean burning also help tremendously.  Most folks seem to complain about it, without doing any due diligence on their load and powder selection.  

I've run Clays, RedDot, Unique, Bullseye, 5744 and a few others, as well as black powder thru mine.  Running about 90% or better of the max load under the Colt Peacemaker listings give me excellent consistency and accuracy, good crimps are a necessity for both that consistent ignition and full burn of the powder... not to mention keeping bullets located in the case.  (more to follow):
Link Posted: 2/4/2017 12:29:42 AM EDT
[#8]
Continuation #2:

Unlike 44Mag rifles which, with rare exceptions run 1:38 and often mike out at .433, while pistols run .428-.429, my 6 45 Colt rifles have between 1:15 - 1:18 twist rates, and like my .452 cast bullets just fine.  Keeping overall loaded length in the toggle link actions to about 1.577", I can run the same loads thru either my Colt SAAs or any of my leverguns.  The Rossi is a bit more generous, allowing lengths to 1.600".  

There are some differences internally between the new Miroku 1873 & Uberti 1873.  The Uberti being the more faithful in regards to parts geometry.  The Miroku uses the same shaped spring for both the lever and carrier, while the Uberti has mirror shapes for these two springs.  I've replaced my lever and carrier springs in my Uberti '73s to the Slix Spring, a bent wire spring vs. a truck axle spring as came from the factory.  The Miroku spring is heavier than the Slix Spring, but lighter than the factory Uberti version.

I'm partial to my Ubertis, replacement parts are plentiful and many upgrades are available, if you're into making yours a "race gun".  That situation is steadily improving for the Miroku, as more and more cowboy action shooters are getting them and want theirs to be a "race gun".  But... factory replacement parts are fewer and farther between...  And Uberti doesn't demand that certain parts only be sold to "authorized" gunsmiths or the firearm being returned for "factory" repair.

All that aside, pick 'em up, fondle 'em, bring them to your shoulder... the one that talks to you is the one you should buy.  I have my favorite, it's an 18" ½round/octagon Uberti 1873, imported by Taylor's & Sons, followed closely by the 24-¼" octagon EMF Uberti rifle... or is the other way around?
Link Posted: 2/4/2017 11:03:18 AM EDT
[#9]
Thanks for those amazing posts!

I definitely won't shy away from the Mirokus then. I'm still going for a 1873 to match my Colt SAA, but it also means I'll have to keep my reloads at a level that the SAA can easily handle.
Link Posted: 2/4/2017 11:27:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The Winchester is really a 'Japchester' with Winchester stamped on it.  Another option is Uberti's great model 1873; made in Italy so it's a 'Wopchester'.  Anyway, I have both Uberti's 1866 19" Yellowboy carbine and 1873 24" Special Sporting rifle in 45 Colt.  They're great rifles and a lot of fun to shoot.  However, like the Colt, you need to keep them loaded with standard pressure (i.e. not +P or Ruger only) loads due to their action designs.  I shoot 255grn handloads in them as well as my SA Army version pistol.
View Quote


Made me laugh.  
Link Posted: 2/4/2017 12:11:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Griff ... take a look at the SAAMI specs for the 44 Magnum sometime.  They are different for the handgun and rifle.  The rifle spec calls for a .431 bore diameter.  That along with a very slow rifling twist explains why a 357 or 45 Colt levergun almost always outshoots the same gun in 44.
Link Posted: 2/8/2017 8:07:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Griff ... take a look at the SAAMI specs for the 44 Magnum sometime.  They are different for the handgun and rifle.  The rifle spec calls for a .431 bore diameter.  That along with a very slow rifling twist explains why a 357 or 45 Colt levergun almost always outshoots the same gun in 44.
View Quote


Can anyone offer any insight as to why this is?
Link Posted: 2/8/2017 10:11:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Can anyone offer any insight as to why this is?
View Quote


Who knows? But I can tell you the Italians are doing it right. 

Uberti Bore, Groove and Twist Rates
 
   Notice in the .44 Magnum they don't differentiate between a handgun and a rifle, both the same. My '73 Uberti Carbine .44 Magnum shoots 2" to 3" @ 100 yds. with no special load development, and I size cast bullets for it at .430".
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