Oh the blue 20" barrel. I like the length of that one. I do have the enhancement parts coming, but I will

probably leave it alone after that. Now tomorrow I will slip into town and bet some bullets.

I had a bad experience with a Chiappa 44 magnum 92.  Within a magazine's worth of SAAMI 44 mag factory ammo it jammed with the tubular magazine having backed out away from the reciever under recoil.  I took it back to Cabela's and they contacted the company, no parts available gun had to go back to Italy.  It came back 6 months later with the same problem it left with.  No more Chiappa for me.  Shame, they have some gorgeous wood.

I have Henry big boys in both 44 and 357 with no problems.  I prefer the way they load as it prevents a sore pinched thumb.  Plus unlike the Italians and Brazilians and Japchesters they are made in America.  Support a worthy favorite son.

IMHO this is the ultimate 357 levergun.  A Winchester 1873 Deluxe Limited Series from Davidsons, #17 of 101.

Davidsons Link

You need to call Steve Young, owner of Steve's Guns.  He's a gunsmith well known in the CASS business as 'Nate Kiowa Jones' and works on leverguns exclusively.  He and his decades of experience are my source of information and he will educate you on the weakness of the Uberti '60, '66, and '73's toggle link design.  He will explain that contrary to your belief, the rifles aren't suitable for a steady diet of magnum level ammo.  He will teach you if you care to listen.



So maybe it's time you move on to something called knowledge.  Go on over to your phone, give him a call, and learn something.  



BTW, so you don't have any excuse, his number is: (512) 564-1015.

I'm not bashing the Uberis, just cautioning the OP that they aren't as strong an action as the '92 design.  I like my Ubertis as well as Rossis but use them for different purposes.  I have two Rossi 357mag leverguns, a 20" carbine and 24" rifle and I also have two Uberti 45 Colt leverguns, 1866 Yellowboy Carbine and 1873 Special Sporting Rifle.  I handload and shoot full power 158grn 357mag loads in my Rossi and keep my 255grn lead 45 Colt loads below the 14,000psi levels of the original 45 Colt black powder loads so that the bolt thrust is at a level the action was designed for.  I acquired my Rossis NIB in 2009 and they each have over 5K rds through them while I got my Ubertis NIB in late 2013 and early 2014 and have slightly over 1K rds through each.  All 4 are a ton of fun to shoot.

  It took you 10 days of head scratching just to repeat the same regurgitated BS? I have Steve's number as I've had several conversations, both phone and by PM on the SASS Wire, when I was working on my "strong" '92 Rossi .357 and its incessant feeding, extracting and ejecting issues.
 Tell you what, since you STILL have no first hand experience and can at best say "...well, ol' so-and-so will tell you!! Just call and ask!!", if you can come up with contact information for an engineer, not a gunsmith that specializes in slicking up '92 Rossi's for CAS competition, that designed the Uberti '73 rifle, (that can speak English, as I don't speak Italian) I'm all ears. So far you submitted nothing but conjecture, charts and a phone number.

 Again, move on to something else as you've run this in the ground and are now barking at the hole.

I guess facts don't phase you do they?





You been running your mouth about your everything you 'know'.  





Where do you get your information?  





What should make anyone think you know more than someone who does it for a living?  
Never mind.  Talking with someone with a closed mind is a waste of my time.



Have a nice day.



 

tagggage....

I don't know whats stronger first hand but I will say one thing that is a very sexy stick and I want one.

Hurry, It's a limited edition made for Davidson's and there are only 101 made.

To pricey for me I wish I had the cash for one. I'll stick to my utilitarian guns like the rossi 1/3 to 1/4 the cost. Beautiful gun no doubt.

Mine was 1500, most expensive gun I own. But with an equivalent Uberti going for 1100-1200 I figured I'd go for it.

CDNN has a few of these Miroku Winchester 1873s left in 357 and 45 Long Colt.

I just ordered one in 357.

Will these 1873s hold up to a lot of 357 shooting?

Would HSM 357 cowboy loads @ 1175fps be ok or should I just stick to 38 special?

You can get an Uberti 73 with a Cody-Matic action job here. I have one and the Winchester certainly isn't going to give me anything for the extra money.

Impressive. Wonder what my BL-92 is worth, with prices like those

Depends on the caliber.  357 seems less common than 44 and can bring higher price though not necessarily.  But why sell it?  They aren't making any more Browning 92s so value isn't going down and they don't have the tang safety crap of the Miroku Winchester 92s.

I bought the Miroku Winchester 1873 because it is the only Winchester lever without the superfluous tang safety.

I've been looking at the  Miroku 1873 in 357... Soooo pretty. Of course I do research on it and the strength of the 73' action with magnum loads pops up in some discussions. I know if you dig real hard on any gun you will find a weakness/negative, but since I'll mainly be shooting 357 mag loads, it worries me a little.1250 for a lever is a lot, but they look special.

How does the Cimarron compare in quality to the Wincester/Miroku 1873's?

Does the Cimarron have less extra "safety" features?

What is the extra cost for the Winchester getting you?

I did talk to Steve Young and I got the impression that the 73 won't hold up to heavy continuous use of anything including 38 special.  By heavy I mean thousands of rounds a month as in cowboy action shooting.  The holes in the three links get worn and sloppy and you eventually get excessive headspace.  He likened it to a bowling ball in a box in the back of a pickup and after awhile when it breaks out of its box and is just rolling around in the back of the pickup.

I think about a worn out bicycle chain.  The holes widen and no longer match with the gear teeth and start to wear the teeth out.

We didn't discuss 357 vs. 38.  That was my question but it did not get a direct answer as to whether 357 wears more than 38 once it's in the chamber.  I'll try to get one next time I speak with him.

I thinks its fine as long as you don't expect to shoot CAS with it and stay within SAAMI spec ammo.  I don't plan to shoot bear loads in mine but standard pressure 357? yes.  I don't think that effects the links unless maybe if its fired out of battery which is impossible with the Winchester.  My Uberti 44-40 73 is possible to fire out of battery but I'm not sure if it's an older model than what they make now.  It certainly has better colors and wood than most I've seen lately.  But I'm not dissing the Uberti, they're damn good.  Especially if you get to pick one out that's purtier.  For luck of the draw all the Winchesters look uniformly beautiful.

Cimarron is Uberti

I emailed Uberti asking specifically about shooting .357 Magnum in the 1873.

"I am planning to buy a Uberti 1873 Trapper lever rifle in 357 Magnum. I do not cowboy shoot, I do not reload. I intend to shoot only factory 357 Magnum through it, maybe 500 rounds a year at the most.

Do you have a recommendation for an appropriate round? The Internet is rife with stories that the 1873 link is too weak for 357 magnum rounds. I'm not sure if this is net lore, but thought I would consult Uberti directly for ammo recommendations."

A representative named Joe D'Agostino replied: "These guns cannot handle any +p pressure or over loaded rounds like Buffalo Bore hunting rounds. You can shoot modern day 357 loads as long as you stay away from these type loads."

Yep...that's pretty much what the manual states in using only SAAMI compliant loads. I doubt ANY manufacturer is going to say "Sure! It'll handle that heavy stuff just fine!"

And there you have it.  The Rossi action is GTG with a 60,000psi+ rated 454 Casull load and the Uberti can't take over a 35,000psi.  BTW, how many modern 357mag commercial loads do you think bump even close to the 35,000psi rating?



 

I take it you are saying not many as in most are well below 35k (Buffalo Bore, Underwood, and a few others still loading the original higher velocity/pressure.)

Was 35k the original pressure back when it was like 1500 fps from a revolver?

 Hmmm.....I searched high and low for +P 357 Magnum ammunition and came up with nothing. Who actually loads this stuff? Saw it in 32 ACP, .38 Sp, 9mm, 44 Mag, 45 ACP, and 45 Colt, however.

ggibbs, I know it doesn't say it on the box but I always thought the Remington UMC 125grain 357 was as close to +p as you can find. The same ammo in 38 sp is +p



Have a good holiday season

The ballistics for that 357 load (125 gr. bullet @ 1450 fps) is standard for that weight bullet. I have fired some of that very load in my 4" Security Six and it was most unpleasant! It's not +P though.

 Merry Christmas

It was part of the first stack of ammo I ran through my, then new, 24" Rossi R92... Of all the different ammo I have used, the UMC seemed to leave the biggest bruise on my shoulder  :)

Henry Big Boy carbine inbound for me.
Won't get to shoot it for a while though.

Bruised shoulder from a 357 lever gun?

Mine recoils just slightly more than a .22

Really.  My Henry steel big boy 357 has a recoil pad but it's not needed.  Even with 180 grain HSM Bear Loads.

+1. UMC stuff often seems heavy-loaded because of their powder choices imo; not necessarily due to any increased power levels. Whatever Rem puts in the UMC stuff is the opposite of "low-fash" powder.

I don't get more muzzle energy from UMC stuff than most other brands, but I do get more muzzle blast.

I had a Rossi 92 .357/38 16" carbine for years and it was a very good rifle. I tweaked the springs, put a stainless follower, refinished the stock & put a few hundred rounds through it. I recently sold it to fund a new Glock for the Wife. They are not hard to find and rather inexpensive so no huge loss.  I did however get the itch again within 3 months and went on the hunt for another. I ended up checking out the new Henry Big Boy steel series and had to have one.  I'm pretty enamored with it as it is made just a couple hours from the house from 100% American parts. Is it a "better" rifle than the Rossi? Yes in terms of craftsmanship, attention to detail, fit, finish, action, resale, etc..  Wasn't sure how I'd like the loading tube, but it's easy as pie and I don't miss an errant round being stubborn into the gate of the Rossi.  A big plus of shooting and unloading the Henry is the rounds/brass drop just a foot or two from me while the Rossi flung them 10 feet away!  Both great rifles in my book. If you want a 1894 clone, the Rossi is nice. If you want 100% quality with an easy gun to mount a scope and USA made, the Henry is a fine rifle.

Well crap, I posted some purdy pics, but they won't show..

Truth be known, I bought the 3 Rossi's 92's because I could afford them and they had the loading gate. The first two were rough and needed work. The one I bought last night is the best looking Rossi I have ever seen. I've since come to the conclusion that I dislike the loading gate (maybe its my bruised shoulder ;) ) I'd really like to see Henry come out with a side loader and tube loader like the Rossi 92 in 454.

Your comments about the new steel Henry have me swayed towards a new Henry. Their customer service is second to none.

fish

I have never noticed it either, with 1800fps+ 125gr bullets.  My wife did complain.  /just sayin'.      

lol, I guess my shoulder was just getting "broken in"

Got to love the 357 lever gun.
I get the new one on Thursday.
From the inspection I did, it looks like the best of the bunch for me. Wood was actually fitted to the metal. That's something I have never seen on a rossi 92..

I'll post up some pictures once I get it cleaned up and some pine tar on the wood.

Bump

I agree with you Steve, but good luck with that statement.  

I get beat up on the internet on a regular basis by optimistic 1873 fans who want to deny this particular fact.

The reality is that if you want a lever gun in .357 Magnum and you want to shoot it on a regular basis with full power .357 mag ammo, you'll be far better served by a Model 92 by Winchester, Rossi or Armi-Sport/Chiappa.

The Winchester and Armi-Sport/Chiappa carbines and rifles are very well made, but they'll cost you 2-3 times as much as a Rossi.

A Rossi rifle or carbine will require a good cleaning to remove all the metal chips in it, and they benefit greatly from an action job.  It's not hard to do yourself if you are handy with tools and have a Dremel tool and a decent screw driver set.  Stevegunz.com sells a how to  DVD along with a lighter ejector spring that makes a huge difference as well as a stainless steel magazine follower that replaces the plastic one that will eventually fail and start sticking in the magazine tube.

The bluing is well done, but the stock finish is pretty basic.  But the can be nicely finished with 3-5 coats of Tru-oil rubbed on top of the original finish.   The first coat or two will take a full 24 hours to dry but the rest will dry down in 90 minutes.  You can then knock the shine off with a light rub with 0000 steel wool and use a polishing compound a few days later to get a nice semi gloss finish.

The end result of a little DIY work is a very nice shooting carbine or rifle for less than half the price of a higher end Model 92.





I have not found my Rossi 92s in .357 to be ammo sensitive at all - they'll feed LRNs, hollow points, and even SWCs in both .38 and .357 Mag.  The major limitation is the slow twist in the rifling - the same 1-30 twist that Winchester used for most of the Model 92 production - and you need to keep a 158 gr bullet above about 1000 fps for decent accuracy.

My 24" Rossi 92 rifle will shoot 2.5 MOA groups out to 200 yards with Federal's 158gr JSP promo/champion load which generates 1820 fps.  I get the same accuracy with hand loaded 125 gr XTPs at 2170 fps.

If the federal load is zeroed at 150 yards it will have a maximum mid range trajectory of 3 3/4"" high at 75 yards and will only be 4" low at 180 yards, making it a very useful hunting round.  The 125 gr load can be zeroed at 170 yards giving it a mid range trajectory of 4" at 100 yards and 5" low at 200 yards, making it a slightly flatter shooting round but with a bit less momentum and energy past 150 yards.  

The single mod that made my Rossi a rough-cycling brass chewing POS into something I'd sooner trade a finger for was a lighter ejector spring.  Night and day difference, trust me.  I bought the Gunslinger spring kit and tried it out after each spring change.  Damn that stock ejector one is WAY overpowered.  It's a bit of a pain in the rear to change it but just do it.  Trust me on this.  Please?

I agree that if you do nothing else, replace the ejector spring on the Rossi.  The Armi-Sport 92s already have a very light ejector spring - just enough to pop the round out of the receiver, but the Rossi 92 ejector is massively over sprung.

When I slicked up my third Rossi 92, the new ejector spring didn't arrive on time, so I put it back together after doing everything else.  The end result was that it felt like I hadn't done much of anything at all with the old spring still in place.  However when the new spring finally arrived and was installed, it was a night and day difference.  

I'm wondering if these rifles can be "too slick"?

 I bought a 20" for CAS and went through it emplementing all the recommended tweaks and mods. It was for sure VERY slick and smooth and operated with little effort. However, it eventually began occassionally throwing out a live round when .38's were being used when the lever was worked forward. This was cured by seating bullets out a little farther, but I hate having to do that. It'd be nice to  be able to shoot any .38's rather than having to load special rounds.

Don't know if that has a lot to do with the slicking up process. My 16" did that straight out of the box with 38s.



Rounds will either end up sticking straight up with the rim stuck between the elevator and the guides or they flip over backwards and land back on the ramp. I believe the recommended fix was putting shims under the guides.....I never bothered so I don't know if that actually fixes anything.