Can't decide what to do with older 1894 - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Can't decide what to do with older 1894

Posted: 12/3/2014 5:12:18 PM EDT

I inherited this rifle, it's...old. It's a little beat. It's a pretty neat rifle though, manufactured in 1918 from what I can tell. Unfortunately my grandfather had a side mounted scope put on it, probably way back in the 40's or 50's ish. The scope was an abomination and I've removed it. However, I'm left with 4 threaded holes. If I can find some tighter tolerance 3A screws to put in with locktight, and grind flush I think it would work and be a difficult to discern repair. Especially if I reblue the gun. The finish is nearly gone and I'm pretty undecided on whether I should refinish it or not (I think I would use the laurel mountain forge rust bluing system, I've used it before with great results). It has some significant scratches, dings and gouges. I don't think it has any real collector value after having the receiver drilled, so I don't see a downside to refinishing. I wouldn't try to get out the deepest dings and gouges, it would still have some "character". I wanted to get some opinions from people that know a thing or two about these old guns though.

It's absolutely filthy, it's probably literally never been cleaned. My grandfather didn't believe in cleaning guns, so it's been this messy for a good 70 years or so I bet

. My first step will be disassembling and cleaning it. The action is gummy and hard to work as it is.

Pics:

Edit: fixed the date of manufacture, also added pictures on page 2 with my repairs and cleanup.

Posted: 12/3/2014 5:17:36 PM EDT

[#1]

You know what you do when you "assume," don't you?

Get an appraisal in its current condition before doing any work on it.

Posted: 12/3/2014 5:20:12 PM EDT

[#2]

Scrub out the barrel real good and take a long look at it. It may not be worth anything at all.

Posted: 12/3/2014 5:48:04 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
You know what you do when you "assume," don't you?

Get an appraisal in its current condition before doing any work on it.

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I'm here for the arfcom appraisal!

Posted: 12/3/2014 5:52:00 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Scrub out the barrel real good and take a long look at it. It may not be worth anything at all.

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What do you mean? The rifling is sharp, although the bore IS dirty..I think the barrel is in really good shape actually. My family tended to not shoot a whole lot...they just got guns dirty and messed up, then left them in a closet for decades. This one appears to have been spared the true death - my uncle's "gunsmithing". The scope mount is enough travesty.

Posted: 12/3/2014 8:19:39 PM EDT

[#5]

DON'T DO ANYTHING TO IT!

That lack of finish, those nicks and scratches? That's it's pedigree. I've got my Grandfather's .32 Spl '94....from about 1929. All I do is keep it clean and lubed.

Clean it up, maybe get some screws to close the holes made for the scope. Enjoy it's history.

Posted: 12/3/2014 8:35:44 PM EDT

[#6]

30-30 , 32ws?

clean it and oil it , don't get crazy with sandpaper , steel wool or blueing .

It has some crazy heavy wear , but pretty much honest wear and it's by family .

A gunsmith can plug those holes with headless screws.

A partial re blue will look cheasey , a complete good refinish will make the stock look crummy and if you redo the metal and the wood the whole gun will look out of place.

Yeah it's a shame it was drilled but in its time that was a tier 1 type of thing to do.

It is of course yours to do what you wish with but I vote to give it a quick clean and oil and have fun shooting grand pa's gun

Posted: 12/3/2014 10:41:15 PM EDT

[#7]

Don't reblue,. Put filler screws in and then find a Lyman 21 or 38 -type sight - you probably won't find one easy, so you can use the Providence repro instead. Antique it to look right, it will cover the holes, and you are good to go. The threads and hole spacing are the same as the original sights, so you can take your time and watch for an original.

Posted: 12/3/2014 11:51:13 PM EDT

[#8]

It's a 30 WCF (30-30 by another name). I really like the idea of filler screws and then putting the lyman 38 sight on it. I'd never seen them before, but it looks like it'll cover the screw holes perfectly and look awesome if it's antiqued to match.

I'll start with that. Clean it up...maybe just clean and oil the wood, see if I can steam out any major dings.

Posted: 12/4/2014 12:09:52 AM EDT

[#9]

Comparing one of those lyman sights on an 1894 with mine, it looks like the sight would be a little long to use the front hole I have in the receiver...any thoughts? I don't like the notion of adding ANOTHER hole. I wonder if I could cut the front of the sight shorter, round it, and drill a new shorter front pivot hole that would line up with one of the existing receiver holes. Only those who really knew what it was might notice the change.

Posted: 12/4/2014 3:32:35 AM EDT

[#10]

The only way to shorten would be to cut it in the middle and weld it together. It isn't worth the bother. Just drill holes for the Lyman or Providence sight. It is an original style sight, and holes drilled for it are much less damaging to value than the holes you already have for the scope mount. You won't hurt the value any more than it already has been.
Providence has bits and dies that are correct for the original Lyman sights, that are included with their sights. http://762precision.wordpress.com/product-reviews/providence-tool-company-pattern-21-sight/
I can tell you how to antique a sight to match the rifle. Your hammer screw looks a little loose, maybe. Nice rifle, by the way. I like the ones that you ca tell were really used.

Posted: 12/5/2014 11:16:01 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
It's a 30 WCF (30-30 by another name). I really like the idea of filler screws and then putting the lyman 38 sight on it. I'd never seen them before, but it looks like it'll cover the screw holes perfectly and look awesome if it's antiqued to match.

I'll start with that. Clean it up...maybe just clean and oil the wood, see if I can steam out any major dings.

View Quote

LEAVE IT ALONE! Those 4 holes can be filled using allen head set screws and red loctite. Then i'd install a tang rear sight. Look good and more in line with that period / style.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/rear-sights/improved-peep-tang-sight-prod27447.aspx?psize=96

Posted: 12/5/2014 12:23:01 PM EDT

[#12]

I'd probably leave as is. A refinishing project will quickly add up to more money than the end result is worth. Clean it up and call it good. Its an old 94 with honest wear and tear. A serious Winchester collector might have some interest in a gun that old but the condition and scope mount holes probably will nix that idea.

Posted: 12/5/2014 12:28:59 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Comparing one of those lyman sights on an 1894 with mine, it looks like the sight would be a little long to use the front hole I have in the receiver...any thoughts? I don't like the notion of adding ANOTHER hole. I wonder if I could cut the front of the sight shorter, round it, and drill a new shorter front pivot hole that would line up with one of the existing receiver holes. Only those who really knew what it was might notice the change.

http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/18363/17738577_3.jpg?v=8D0A22A0F3270D0
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m617/NathanJK/Winchester%201894/2014-12-03131642.jpg?t=1417639934

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Find a sight, shorten the sight, install, shoot ,fun results.

Posted: 12/5/2014 12:39:46 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
LEAVE IT ALONE! Those 4 holes can be filled using allen head set screws and red loctite. Then i'd install a tang rear sight. Look good and more in line with that period / style.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/rear-sights/improved-peep-tang-sight-prod27447.aspx?psize=96

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

It's a 30 WCF (30-30 by another name). I really like the idea of filler screws and then putting the lyman 38 sight on it. I'd never seen them before, but it looks like it'll cover the screw holes perfectly and look awesome if it's antiqued to match.
I'll start with that. Clean it up...maybe just clean and oil the wood, see if I can steam out any major dings.

LEAVE IT ALONE! Those 4 holes can be filled using allen head set screws and red loctite. Then i'd install a tang rear sight. Look good and more in line with that period / style.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/rear-sights/improved-peep-tang-sight-prod27447.aspx?psize=96

This is the only thing to do besides a complete rebuild. I would not even think about having it restored if it wasn't for the holes. They could be filled in and made invisible by the right smith. Either way is ok, depending if you want it to look more like it did 100years ago or what it does after 100 years of use. I would never want to mess with an unaltered example but when the holes were drilled a lot of the collect-ability went out the window and is now what do you want it to be gun.

I never owned one but my buddy had a 1916 with incorrect stock. Sold for $500. They only bring a high dollar amount if original and in good+ shape. The 32s will command 30-50% premiums.

Posted: 12/6/2014 1:28:47 AM EDT

[#15]

Don't refinish, just clean it and oil it.

Whoever inherits it from you will be glad you did.

Posted: 12/6/2014 10:18:36 AM EDT

[#16]

IMO:

Option #1- Fill the holes with screws and leave the rest alone.

Option #2- Add that sight, drilling the correct hole.

I wouldn't consider anything else. I picked up a similar vintage 1894, mine being made in 1895, a Takedown Model with the three bladed flip up rear sight. I take it out a few times a year and shoot with my reduced load of a gas check 170gr Lyman bullet cast from wheelweight alloy over 10gr of Unique powder. It's a mild shooting but amazingly accurate load, at least in my rifle.

Posted: 12/6/2014 11:56:33 AM EDT

[#17]

Don't fuck with it.

Hang it on the wall as is, screw holes to the wall, and savor the history, the memories, and the association with your family. If you want to go shooting buy a modern rifle and leave this one to graceful, honorable retirement.

Posted: 12/6/2014 2:24:11 PM EDT

[#18]

It's fine just as it is.

Posted: 12/6/2014 3:35:34 PM EDT

[#19]

I would leave it as is.

Posted: 12/6/2014 6:36:13 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
IMO:

Option #1- Fill the holes with screws and leave the rest alone.

Option #2- Add that sight, drilling the correct hole.

I wouldn't consider anything else. I picked up a similar vintage 1894, mine being made in 1895, a Takedown Model with the three bladed flip up rear sight. I take it out a few times a year and shoot with my reduced load of a gas check 170gr Lyman bullet cast from wheelweight alloy over 10gr of Unique powder. It's a mild shooting but amazingly accurate load, at least in my rifle.

View Quote

This.

Posted: 12/6/2014 7:45:48 PM EDT

[#21]

It's easy to fill the holes and make them invisible. It is really tough to do so and make the area match the worn patina of the rest of the receiver.

Posted: 12/6/2014 11:15:40 PM EDT

[#22]

I appreciate all the ideas...I'm going to start with cleaning it up and filling the holes (no refinishing or anything, just some flat screws). I will then evaluate a tang vs lyman sight. I'll post pics once I finish filling the holes, hopefully I get to it on Tuesday.

Posted: 12/7/2014 10:35:52 PM EDT

[#23]

I don't even like 94s and I say fill the holes and leave it alone.

Posted: 12/7/2014 10:44:44 PM EDT

[#24]

That's very cool!

Posted: 12/9/2014 10:13:03 AM EDT

[#25]

Based on the first 2 serial numbers I see in one of the pics(if i'm seeing them correctly) it was made in either 1918 or 1919.

Posted: 12/9/2014 6:02:26 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
Based on the first 2 serial numbers I see in one of the pics(if i'm seeing them correctly) it was made in either 1918 or 1919.

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Unless it's a 5-digit serial number, I agree. If it is a 5-digit SN, it looks like 1896 or 1897.

Posted: 12/15/2014 4:11:59 PM EDT

[#27]

Alright, it took longer for me to disassemble, clean (ultrasonic), oil and reassemble...but it wasn't too difficult thanks to the power of youtube. I also cleaned the stock up some and re-oiled it with BLO, and I filled the screw holes. I can easily remove these screw plugs if need be, they are blue locktited in. A screw remover and some heat will take them right out. As for the date, y'all are right, it's 1918 according to http://www.savage99.com/winchester1894_dates.htm. I must have dropped a digit the first time I read it. Thanks for catching that. Oh well, it's ALMOST 100

.

Posted: 12/16/2014 9:11:53 AM EDT

[#28]

I would deer hunt the hell out of that rifle. but I would have a smith, find some screws to fit flush and fill those holes.
that rifle has a character that begs one more deer kill.

Posted: 12/17/2014 8:15:58 PM EDT

[#29]

So what scope and mount was on it????

a old scope is very interesting

Posted: 12/18/2014 5:19:17 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
So what scope and mount was on it????

a old scope is very interesting

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It's a Weaver K3 with a weaver 1" detacheable side mount. I hadn't even considered selling it, but you got me looking at ebay now!

Posted: 1/2/2015 1:47:54 PM EDT

[#31]

Those plugs turned out very good! I am seriously impressed

Posted: 1/2/2015 6:08:29 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
Those plugs turned out very good! I am seriously impressed

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NICE JOB!!

Posted: 1/11/2015 12:40:43 PM EDT

[#33]

You know that rifle is a Saddle Ring carbine. The big plug on the left side is covering the hole for the post. Your receiver clearly shows the wear fron the ring. Contact Steve at Steve's Gunz. I bet he can fix you up or point you in the right direction. He specializes in 73,92,94s, mostly works on the Rossis but workoked on my 1904 92 and did a great job !

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Can't decide what to do with older 1894

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