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Posted: 6/29/2014 3:26:04 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
7-30 Waters. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Marlin 336 in 6.8 SPC. And can you imagine the increased ballistics of the 7-30 waters with the improvements in ammo tech since it has died? Such as the hornady soft tipped ammo? |
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Posted: 6/30/2014 12:46:20 AM EDT
[#2]
Marlin M62 in .256 Winmag, with 3000 rounds of ammo
and another M62 in .30 Carbine |
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Posted: 6/30/2014 2:13:06 AM EDT
[#3]
My dream gun that never existed is the Marlin 1895RL, they advertised it but never released it. I'd still like a .475 Linebaugh Marlin though.
As far as guns that exist I'd love an 1895 Winchester SRC with a Lyman reviver sight in .30-06 of course. |
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Posted: 6/30/2014 7:11:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Really, all I'm asking for here in a Win 94 AE in .356 that I can convert to pistol grip. Is that too much to ask for??
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Posted: 7/1/2014 7:48:32 PM EDT
[#5]
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Absolutely! I can't believe the accuracy I've gotten with 158grn Zero JSP bullets at long ranges. It's a pistol bullet and it shouldn't carry so well but it does! In addition, I also use 158grn Rainier and X-Treme plated bullets and they do exceptionally well at full 357mag velocities and 200+ yds too. Besides the accuracy of the setup, the flexibility of the loads, the ability to carry a fair amount of ammo without extreme weight issues, and the comparability with a wide variety of handguns makes it winning combination in my book. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You both do realize that while the 10mm is a hot handgun round, it's performance out of a long barrel is anemic compared to the 357mag, don't you? Absolutely! I can't believe the accuracy I've gotten with 158grn Zero JSP bullets at long ranges. It's a pistol bullet and it shouldn't carry so well but it does! In addition, I also use 158grn Rainier and X-Treme plated bullets and they do exceptionally well at full 357mag velocities and 200+ yds too. Besides the accuracy of the setup, the flexibility of the loads, the ability to carry a fair amount of ammo without extreme weight issues, and the comparability with a wide variety of handguns makes it winning combination in my book. I found the Timberwolf's chrono data the last night. I'm only posting this to inform and encourage those with dreams of a 357 lever rifle. 158 gr bullet - 1,728 fps (16.6 gr W296, WSPM primer) 125 gr bullet - 2,089 fps (19.6 gr W296, WSPM primer) |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 2:06:01 PM EDT
[#6]
My dream levergun is also my dream elephant gun short barreled winchester 1887 chambered in 70-150
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Posted: 7/3/2014 1:12:39 AM EDT
[#7]
Dream Levergun?
A first class '92 JapChester in .38 Special, or .45LC or 500 S&W. Could use .25-20 or .32-20 or .32H&RMagnum/.327FrackingMagnum, too. W/ options for quick takedown, exotic superlight Scandium type frames/bbls, and charcoal & straw bluing. |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 3:45:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Marlin 336 in 30-30 with 20 inch oct. barrel and a flip up ladder style rear sight.
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Posted: 7/3/2014 11:06:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Winchester 1894 takedown in 9mm Para.
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Posted: 7/4/2014 7:28:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Winchester 1894 takedown in 9mm Para. YES. Why not? Hell, I want one in 7.65 Luger or 7.62 Tokarev! 9mm Makarov. |
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Posted: 7/4/2014 11:12:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
YES. Why not? Hell, I want one in 7.65 Luger or 7.62 Tokarev! 9mm Makarov. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Winchester 1894 takedown in 9mm Para. YES. Why not? Hell, I want one in 7.65 Luger or 7.62 Tokarev! 9mm Makarov. 
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Posted: 7/5/2014 2:16:09 PM EDT
[#12]
1894 Winchester , 28" octagon tube, full mag, and a MAlcolm scope --- that would look so badass --- my only hope is the Malcolm scope would live up to its looks
1895 Winchester 30-06 Saddle ring carbine |
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Posted: 7/5/2014 11:21:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Nice vid.
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Posted: 7/6/2014 1:02:39 PM EDT
[#14]
A large loop lever Winchester Mod 1892 that was actually owned and used in a movie, any movie, by John Wayne. Not gonna happen, I know. The Wayne Estate Foundation (or whatever it's called) owns and controls everything.
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Posted: 7/7/2014 9:11:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Winchester 1873 Musket
and one of these, Winchester Model 88 pre-64 
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Posted: 7/7/2014 10:20:29 PM EDT
[#16]
I am easy to please; Winchester 1895 in .30-06 or .303 British, or a Winchester 94 in 7-30 Waters, or a Browning BLR in .30-06 ( although I would settle for .308) or a Savage 99 in .375 Winchester or .308.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 10:10:04 PM EDT
[#17]
I don't know if this counts as my dream, but after 20+ years of searching for a decent one at a fair price and almost giving up believing that there wasn't one out there for me, I was given the opportunity to buy this unfired 1959 Winchester Model 88 in .308 (my preferred caliber) from a widow who ordered it with a Winchester rubber buttpad. Seems she got it for her late husband for Christmas in 1959, opened it up and inspected it, put it in his safe, and promptly forgot about it. I consider it one of the most beautiful modern style rifles around. BTW, it didn't stay unfired for long and it shoots like a dream.
 Tied as my favorite levergun shooter is my Uberti Special Sporting Rifle. I think it ranks as one of the most beautiful rifles ever made. Since it's not an original and I handload for it (as I do for all my firearms), I have no problem shooting it a lot which makes me exceedingly happy.  |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 5:17:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Steve thats a beautiful Uberti!!!!
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Posted: 7/16/2014 5:32:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Winchester 1895 in 30-40 krag, with Teddy Roosevelt carved in the stock
Or a marlin 1894 in 500 smith with a 12 round capacity |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 9:41:24 PM EDT
[#20]
http://www.bighornarmory.com/catalog/big-horn-armory-products/model-89-carbine-2/
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Posted: 7/19/2014 9:51:03 PM EDT
[#21]
My dream lever gun.....
An original Winchester 1873 in 40 WCF (44-40Win) Already have 1892 Winchester Takedown in 44-40 (made in Japan for Browning/Winchester) 1894S Marlin in 44-40 Both were bought off Gun Broker in NIB condition. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 9:47:00 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 7/21/2014 9:48:16 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 7/27/2014 12:41:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Russian contract 95 Winchester in 7.62x54R. http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/United%20States%20Rifles/win95-3.jpg Came here to post this. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 12:59:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Karrraaappp....
That's what i want, but in a full length config... John Quote History |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 1:08:24 PM EDT
[#26]
I just bought one after years of wanting one at a reasonable price.
1894c in .38/.357 |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 10:39:05 PM EDT
[#27]
edit :wrong section :(
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Posted: 7/29/2014 6:43:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Winchester 1895 carbine in 303 British.
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Posted: 8/3/2014 7:52:48 PM EDT
[#29]
A'94 or even better a '92 in .45acp
I really want a '94 in 7-30 waters as well (if i ever find one it will get bored out to AI) |
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Posted: 8/3/2014 9:33:03 PM EDT
[#30]
I collect, among many guns, S&W revolvers from the '20s through the '70s. I would like to have a Winchester in .32-20 with a 20in barrel. It could be a '73 or a '92. I would pair it up with a S&W 4in M&P K-frame, also in .32-20 and try to get them both from the same decade.
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Posted: 8/5/2014 12:27:04 PM EDT
[#31]
I want a '92 or '94 clone in 10mm.
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Posted: 8/5/2014 12:29:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That would be nice.... 10mm goodness. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Win 94 16in Trapper model in 10mm. This. I posted and then saw this on the first page. Obviously I'm not the only one out there. I'd pay up to $2,000 if someone could figure a way to convert an existing lever to 10mm. It would be a bonus if it could also shoot .40 S&W but I doubt that's possible since they headspace on the case mouth. |
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Posted: 8/5/2014 5:14:19 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want a '92 or '94 clone in 10mm. Auto pistol rounds are fairly unimpressive in rifles and carbines. Auto pistol rounds are great for pistols and SMGs/SBRs, but they're too efficient to get a huge boost form long barrels. I'd rather have a Coonan .357 pistol to pair with my .357 lever guns than a 10mm lever gun to pair with my 10mm pistol. www.ballisticsbytheinch.com: 10mm 175 gr STHP 5" test barrel: 1225 f/s 583 Ft-lb 16" test barrel: 1384 f/s 744ft-lb .45 ACP 230 HSHP 5": 895f/s 409 ft-lb 16": 994f/s 504ft-lb They're nice boosts, but compare a 158 gr JHP: 4" 686: 1248f/s 546 ft-lb 16" Win 94: 1735f/s 1055ft-lb |
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Posted: 8/6/2014 1:13:30 AM EDT
[#34]
That's more a result of the load given in your example. It's middle of the road in terms of power and likely uses medium to fast powder. Take a look below at the boost gained from a .40 S&W loaded with slower powder than is typical for the cartridge. No reason to expect that 10mm can't produce 1,700 fps with a 165 gr bullet and a slow powder.
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Posted: 8/6/2014 1:41:45 AM EDT
[#35]
Savage 99 in 338 federal. Detachable mag. 16" threaded medium barrel. 12.5" lop. Truck gun.
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Posted: 8/6/2014 1:30:34 PM EDT
[#36]
Dream guns that are actually out there and I just don't have yet:
'95 Winchester carbine in .30-40 Krag '92 Winchester carbine or '73 Winchester short rifle in .44 Special Guns that could be built fairly easily: '86 OR 71 Browning/Winchester short rifle in .50-110 '95 Browning/Winchester 20" in .35 Whelan True dream guns: A '92 Winchester take-down with quick-change internals and barrel/mag tube assemblies for any pistol cartridge above 9mm thru .45 ACP, including rimmed and rimless cartridges. A '94 Winchester size/weight rifle in both .250 Savage and ..358 Winchester with a Remington spiral mag tube for pointed bullets. Rob |
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Posted: 8/6/2014 2:30:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's more a result of the load given in your example. It's middle of the road in terms of power and likely uses medium to fast powder. Take a look below at the boost gained from a .40 S&W loaded with slower powder than is typical for the cartridge. No reason to expect that 10mm can't produce 1,700 fps with a 165 gr bullet and a slow powder. The loads in my examples are fairly representative of pretty much most factory SAAMI loads. The Winchester 175 gr STHP may be middle of the road of what the 10mm is capable of, but it's pretty much up there with what you will find from major brand factory ammo. The .357 numbers were also factory ammo; the .357 can also do a bit better with handloading. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html Hotter, over-spec loads from Cor Bon do a little better but still aren't especially impressive out of longer barrels. I'm not a big fan of lighter bullets under 170 gr in .40/10mm or under 200gr in .45, especially at higher velocities. The examples in the above Youtube video are as follows: 180gr .40 bullet Pistol 4.5" bbl 1081f/s 467ft-lb Carbine 16" bbl 1320 f/s 696ft-lb No mention in the video of what pressure that load produces, but it seems reasonable to speculate it could be within SAMMI limits. Better performance, but not really that impressive a boost, or more specifically: great pistol round, not especially impressive performance out of a rifle barrel. Of course, it largely depends on what you want to do with your rifle/carbine. I don't handload, so I have no idea what kind of pressure a 1700 f/s (at 16" bbl) 165 gr bullet would have out of a 10mm case. |
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Posted: 8/6/2014 4:26:43 PM EDT
[#38]
marlin 1895 cowboy in .45-70
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Posted: 8/6/2014 5:13:54 PM EDT
[#39]
My point is that manufacturers often choose slower powder for magnum cartridges because they are commonly used in longer barrels handguns and in carbines. The slower powders are less common in auto pistol cartridges. Auto pistol cartridges are no more or less efficient; it's simply a matter of what type of powder it's used and case capacity.
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Posted: 8/6/2014 7:29:12 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My point is that manufacturers often choose slower powder for magnum cartridges because they are commonly used in longer barrels handguns and in carbines. The slower powders are less common in auto pistol cartridges. Auto pistol cartridges are no more or less efficient; it's simply a matter of what type of powder it's used and case capacity. Yes, and case capacity is where the auto pistol rounds tend to fall short. I understand what your point is, and I agree that auto pistol cartridges are inherently no more or less efficient. My point was that they are as typically loaded by commercial ammo makers. They develop most of their potential velocity in much less barrel length than typically loaded modern revolver cartridges. Extra barrel length doesn't buy you much more in typical factory loadings, and for hand loading, the typical short auto pistol cartridges tend to fall short in case capacity. I don't hand-load, so maybe the case capacity doesn't matter as much as I speculate it does in regards to what you can get out of a cartridge in longer barrels. A large percentage of the discussions here tend to assume hand-loading, and occasionally I like to provide input and opinions from and for those who don't load their own for whatever reasons. If you're not going to handload &/or you use major commercial ammo, auto pistol rounds are unimpressive out of rifles and carbines. If you handload, it's almost all bets are off for what a particular cartridge really is. If you handload, a .45-70 is capable of being loaded to take whatever game on this earth your model of rifle is capable of handling a load for, up to and including elephant when using a modern manufacture Winchester 1886 (though there are better choices for elephant). |
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Posted: 8/6/2014 9:15:11 PM EDT
[#41]
You are equating 10mm to every other auto pistol cartridge and that's just not accurate. It's counter-intuitive, but in many ways 10mm it's more stimulate to .357 mag than to .40 S&W.
You don't have to hand load to get 10mm ammo loaded with slower powder any more than you need to handouts to get fast powder (sort barrel) loads for .357 mag. Underwood uses 800-X exclusively all their 10mm loads. It's also worth noting that out seems that ballisticsbytheinch never actually fired 10mm ammo through a carbine to arrive at their numbers, instead relying on their software to produce the results. |
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Posted: 8/6/2014 9:21:18 PM EDT
[#42]
How about that "Gun that won the West?" The Winchester Model 1873 would do it for me.
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Posted: 8/7/2014 12:17:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The loads in my examples are fairly representative of pretty much most factory SAAMI loads. The Winchester 175 gr STHP may be middle of the road of what the 10mm is capable of, but it's pretty much up there with what you will find from major brand factory ammo. The .357 numbers were also factory ammo; the .357 can also do a bit better with handloading. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html Hotter, over-spec loads from Cor Bon do a little better but still aren't especially impressive out of longer barrels. I'm not a big fan of lighter bullets under 170 gr in .40/10mm or under 200gr in .45, especially at higher velocities. The examples in the above Youtube video are as follows: 180gr .40 bullet Pistol 4.5" bbl 1081f/s 467ft-lb Carbine 16" bbl 1320 f/s 696ft-lb No mention in the video of what pressure that load produces, but it seems reasonable to speculate it could be within SAMMI limits. Better performance, but not really that impressive a boost, or more specifically: great pistol round, not especially impressive performance out of a rifle barrel. Of course, it largely depends on what you want to do with your rifle/carbine. I don't handload, so I have no idea what kind of pressure a 1700 f/s (at 16" bbl) 165 gr bullet would have out of a 10mm case. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's more a result of the load given in your example. It's middle of the road in terms of power and likely uses medium to fast powder. Take a look below at the boost gained from a .40 S&W loaded with slower powder than is typical for the cartridge. No reason to expect that 10mm can't produce 1,700 fps with a 165 gr bullet and a slow powder. The loads in my examples are fairly representative of pretty much most factory SAAMI loads. The Winchester 175 gr STHP may be middle of the road of what the 10mm is capable of, but it's pretty much up there with what you will find from major brand factory ammo. The .357 numbers were also factory ammo; the .357 can also do a bit better with handloading. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html Hotter, over-spec loads from Cor Bon do a little better but still aren't especially impressive out of longer barrels. I'm not a big fan of lighter bullets under 170 gr in .40/10mm or under 200gr in .45, especially at higher velocities. The examples in the above Youtube video are as follows: 180gr .40 bullet Pistol 4.5" bbl 1081f/s 467ft-lb Carbine 16" bbl 1320 f/s 696ft-lb No mention in the video of what pressure that load produces, but it seems reasonable to speculate it could be within SAMMI limits. Better performance, but not really that impressive a boost, or more specifically: great pistol round, not especially impressive performance out of a rifle barrel. Of course, it largely depends on what you want to do with your rifle/carbine. I don't handload, so I have no idea what kind of pressure a 1700 f/s (at 16" bbl) 165 gr bullet would have out of a 10mm case. I love my custom Glock 20L with 6" barrel and slide and get tremendous velocities from it with my handloads considering it's only a 6" barrel (i.e. 165grn Speer Gold Dot @ 1,589fps). Compared to hot 158grn 357mag loads in my 7½" barreled SA (158grn @ 1,382fps), my 165grn 10mm produces faster velocities with a larger, heavier bullet. Powders used in 10mm loads like Power Pistol and Lil'gun were developed specifically to produce maximum velocities in pistol length barrels when loaded in the small cases of semi-auto handguns. HOWEVER, there is no way that it can compete with the performance gains I can produce when I shoot my 357mag handloads out of either my 20" or 24" barreled Rossi leverguns. The reason is that the 10mm simply doesn't have the case capacity to allow the loading of enough slow burning magnum powder to continue to accelerate the bullet in the longer barrels like the 357mag can. Those same hot 10mm loads barely gain any velocity out of my friend's 16" barreled Mech Tech carbine while my hot 357mag loads produce 1,789fps out of my 20" carbine and 1,822fps out of my 24" rifle. |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 12:36:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are equating 10mm to every other auto pistol cartridge and that's just not accurate. It's counter-intuitive, but in many ways 10mm it's more stimulate to .357 mag than to .40 S&W. You don't have to hand load to get 10mm ammo loaded with slower powder any more than you need to handouts to get fast powder (sort barrel) loads for .357 mag. Underwood uses 800-X exclusively all their 10mm loads. It's also worth noting that out seems that ballisticsbytheinch never actually fired 10mm ammo through a carbine to arrive at their numbers, instead relying on their software to produce the results. I don't recall saying you had to handload or that handloading was the only way to get 10mm ammo loaded with slower powder. I recall repeatedly qualifying my position with phrases like- "pretty much most factory SAAMI loads" "major brand factory ammo" "as typically loaded by commercial ammo makers" "major commercial ammo" To clarify my position further: I don't consider companies like Underwoord or DoubleTap to be major or typical ammo makers. I consider the major ammo makers to be Winchester, Remington, Hornady, & ATK/Federal/Speer/CCI. These are the makers of ammo that are commonly found at Walmart and corner sporting goods stores/departments. Where did you find out that BBI never actually fired 10mm ammo through a carbine to arrive at their numbers, instead relying on their software to produce the results? My understanding is that their barrel length numbers are real numbers derived from ‘chop tests’ using a Thompson/Center Encore No. 1842 that they cut and re-crowned the barrel of for each length test. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/scope.html http://ballisticsbytheinch.wordpress.com/category/10mm/ http://ballisticsbytheinch.wordpress.com/2009/04/21/new-round-of-testing-completed/ |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 12:45:10 PM EDT
[#45]
Additionally, from the Underwood 10mm page http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto.aspx:
10mm Auto
Cannot be used in Colt Delta Elite or any other firearms with rampless barrel due to complete lack of case support. I consider that specialized, atypical ammo. It certainly does me and my semi-customized Delta Elite no good. |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 12:51:13 PM EDT
[#46]
COSteve, have you done any penetration tests with that 165 gr load?
That's a fairly light/low sectional density bullet to drive that fast for a .400", but then it is a Gold Dot bullet. I'm curious as to how well it holds up/ retains mass and penetrates. |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 3:57:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: COSteve, have you done any penetration tests with that 165 gr load? That's a fairly light/low sectional density bullet to drive that fast for a .400", but then it is a Gold Dot bullet. I'm curious as to how well it holds up/ retains mass and penetrates. Nope, actually it's my 215 yd steel target load. It's a blast for me (66 yr old guy) to step up to the line after someone with a scoped AK misses shots at our 30" steel plate, packing a 6" slide Glock with a FO front sight / melted Bomar rear sight, takes aim with an unsupported two handed stance, and rings the steel. Both the fact that I'm shooting a pistol and the sound almost 11grns of Power Pistol (my nuclear load) makes when it ignites really gets heads to turn. I've talked to Speer and all they will say is that it was not designed to be pushed that fast in a self defense role, however, they assure me that they know of others who have pushed their pistol bullets at those extreme speeds (some even faster) and like me, they have stayed together. I've even shot it at 300yds but in truth, I'm neither good enough, nor can I see that well, to hit much of anything at that extreme range with the open sights I have. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 1:15:18 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love my custom Glock 20L with 6" barrel and slide and get tremendous velocities from it with my handloads considering it's only a 6" barrel (i.e. 165grn Speer Gold Dot @ 1,589fps). Compared to hot 158grn 357mag loads in my 7½" barreled SA (158grn @ 1,382fps), my 165grn 10mm produces faster velocities with a larger, heavier bullet. Powders used in 10mm loads like Power Pistol and Lil'gun were developed specifically to produce maximum velocities in pistol length barrels when loaded in the small cases of semi-auto handguns. HOWEVER, there is no way that it can compete with the performance gains I can produce when I shoot my 357mag handloads out of either my 20" or 24" barreled Rossi leverguns. The reason is that the 10mm simply doesn't have the case capacity to allow the loading of enough slow burning magnum powder to continue to accelerate the bullet in the longer barrels like the 357mag can. Those same hot 10mm loads barely gain any velocity out of my friend's 16" barreled Mech Tech carbine while my hot 357mag loads produce 1,789fps out of my 20" carbine and 1,822fps out of my 24" rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That's more a result of the load given in your example. It's middle of the road in terms of power and likely uses medium to fast powder. Take a look below at the boost gained from a .40 S&W loaded with slower powder than is typical for the cartridge. No reason to expect that 10mm can't produce 1,700 fps with a 165 gr bullet and a slow powder. The loads in my examples are fairly representative of pretty much most factory SAAMI loads. The Winchester 175 gr STHP may be middle of the road of what the 10mm is capable of, but it's pretty much up there with what you will find from major brand factory ammo. The .357 numbers were also factory ammo; the .357 can also do a bit better with handloading. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html Hotter, over-spec loads from Cor Bon do a little better but still aren't especially impressive out of longer barrels. I'm not a big fan of lighter bullets under 170 gr in .40/10mm or under 200gr in .45, especially at higher velocities. The examples in the above Youtube video are as follows: 180gr .40 bullet Pistol 4.5" bbl 1081f/s 467ft-lb Carbine 16" bbl 1320 f/s 696ft-lb No mention in the video of what pressure that load produces, but it seems reasonable to speculate it could be within SAMMI limits. Better performance, but not really that impressive a boost, or more specifically: great pistol round, not especially impressive performance out of a rifle barrel. Of course, it largely depends on what you want to do with your rifle/carbine. I don't handload, so I have no idea what kind of pressure a 1700 f/s (at 16" bbl) 165 gr bullet would have out of a 10mm case. I love my custom Glock 20L with 6" barrel and slide and get tremendous velocities from it with my handloads considering it's only a 6" barrel (i.e. 165grn Speer Gold Dot @ 1,589fps). Compared to hot 158grn 357mag loads in my 7½" barreled SA (158grn @ 1,382fps), my 165grn 10mm produces faster velocities with a larger, heavier bullet. Powders used in 10mm loads like Power Pistol and Lil'gun were developed specifically to produce maximum velocities in pistol length barrels when loaded in the small cases of semi-auto handguns. HOWEVER, there is no way that it can compete with the performance gains I can produce when I shoot my 357mag handloads out of either my 20" or 24" barreled Rossi leverguns. The reason is that the 10mm simply doesn't have the case capacity to allow the loading of enough slow burning magnum powder to continue to accelerate the bullet in the longer barrels like the 357mag can. Those same hot 10mm loads barely gain any velocity out of my friend's 16" barreled Mech Tech carbine while my hot 357mag loads produce 1,789fps out of my 20" carbine and 1,822fps out of my 24" rifle. The case capacity of 10mm is very nearly that of .357 mag. It's not magic or voodoo. If you use similar powders, you'll get similar results. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 1:36:27 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Additionally, from the Underwood 10mm page http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto.aspx: I consider that specialized, atypical ammo. It certainly does me and my semi-customized Delta Elite no good. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Additionally, from the Underwood 10mm page http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto.aspx: 10mm Auto
Cannot be used in Colt Delta Elite or any other firearms with rampless barrel due to complete lack of case support. I consider that specialized, atypical ammo. It certainly does me and my semi-customized Delta Elite no good. There is some debate in 10mm circles as to whether the Delta Elite it's capable of handling anything approaching 37,500 psi. That warning is a result of those concerns. Underwood can certainly be considered a boutique manufacturer but I know of no reason to suspect they produce ammunition that exceeds SAAMI spec. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 1:41:42 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't recall saying you had to handload or that handloading was the only way to get 10mm ammo loaded with slower powder. I recall repeatedly qualifying my position with phrases like- "pretty much most factory SAAMI loads" "major brand factory ammo" "as typically loaded by commercial ammo makers" "major commercial ammo" To clarify my position further: I don't consider companies like Underwoord or DoubleTap to be major or typical ammo makers. I consider the major ammo makers to be Winchester, Remington, Hornady, & ATK/Federal/Speer/CCI. These are the makers of ammo that are commonly found at Walmart and corner sporting goods stores/departments. Where did you find out that BBI never actually fired 10mm ammo through a carbine to arrive at their numbers, instead relying on their software to produce the results? My understanding is that their barrel length numbers are real numbers derived from ‘chop tests’ using a Thompson/Center Encore No. 1842 that they cut and re-crowned the barrel of for each length test. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/scope.html http://ballisticsbytheinch.wordpress.com/category/10mm/ http://ballisticsbytheinch.wordpress.com/2009/04/21/new-round-of-testing-completed/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You are equating 10mm to every other auto pistol cartridge and that's just not accurate. It's counter-intuitive, but in many ways 10mm it's more stimulate to .357 mag than to .40 S&W. You don't have to hand load to get 10mm ammo loaded with slower powder any more than you need to handouts to get fast powder (sort barrel) loads for .357 mag. Underwood uses 800-X exclusively all their 10mm loads. It's also worth noting that out seems that ballisticsbytheinch never actually fired 10mm ammo through a carbine to arrive at their numbers, instead relying on their software to produce the results. I don't recall saying you had to handload or that handloading was the only way to get 10mm ammo loaded with slower powder. I recall repeatedly qualifying my position with phrases like- "pretty much most factory SAAMI loads" "major brand factory ammo" "as typically loaded by commercial ammo makers" "major commercial ammo" To clarify my position further: I don't consider companies like Underwoord or DoubleTap to be major or typical ammo makers. I consider the major ammo makers to be Winchester, Remington, Hornady, & ATK/Federal/Speer/CCI. These are the makers of ammo that are commonly found at Walmart and corner sporting goods stores/departments. Where did you find out that BBI never actually fired 10mm ammo through a carbine to arrive at their numbers, instead relying on their software to produce the results? My understanding is that their barrel length numbers are real numbers derived from ‘chop tests’ using a Thompson/Center Encore No. 1842 that they cut and re-crowned the barrel of for each length test. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/scope.html http://ballisticsbytheinch.wordpress.com/category/10mm/ http://ballisticsbytheinch.wordpress.com/2009/04/21/new-round-of-testing-completed/ I just assumed that because they listed only one "real world" result with that data that the data was produced by software. Their data for other cartridges list results from a handgun and a rifle. I didn't know about the barrel cutting thing. ETA: too be clear, I don't substantively disagree with any of your points. I only took issue with the conclusion that a 10mm carbine would be of little or no use. |
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