I've  decided to get a SnapSafe modular safe. Since I rent, I need/like the convenience of of taking it apart and moving it myself. They offer either a SecuRam digital lock or a LaGard mechanical lock. I'm interested in the pro/cons of each.



Thanks.

With a digital lock, it's only a matter of when, not if, it will fail.

I have never really understood the rage for electronic locks especially with all the horror stories I have read over the years.
Once a person get's their dial combination down you can get the safe open in under 12 seconds vs maybe 5 seconds on the less reliable electronic lock.
I know there are people out there that have had an E-lock for 12 or 15 years without any issues but then there are many others that don't even get through a year before being locked out of their safe due to the damn thing failing.

digital lock may or may not work, mechanical lock always works. You pick

Most here have mechanical. I personally went with an upgraded S&G electronic because I wanted my wife to be able to get in easily.

4 years with almost daily access and no problems so far. Hopefully it continues to hold up!

You do realize mechanical locks fail also, right?

Mechanical locks also should be serviced on a regular basis by a safe tech to stay working properly.

Bullshit.  Mechanical locks (particularly the low end Made-As-China models) wear out and suffer from combination drift.

not mine

 
Same with a mechanical.






The only answer to the panty wringing is to buy a double door safe and put one of each on it.



 


Many of you won't admit it, but you don't lock your safe every time, and often forget to because of the hassle of turning a mechanical dial.  With an electronic lock, you are more inclined to lock it every time, because of the ease of entering a combo.




I open my safe several times a day.  I lock it every time.


 

 
Even good mechanicals are fragile.  They are often damaged by spinning them too fast to zero them out.

I got a mechanical and at first...i HATED it.  would take me 10-15 times before it would let me in.  not what you need incase of an emergency.  well, then i started to fiddle with it and found out each # is 1/2 a number off. (liberty fat boy jr).  once i found this out, i get it on the first try every time. I have thought about having a lock smith come out and fix it / change the code, but its actually not a bad set of #s from the factory, so im good with it.

A mechanical can fail, but it's uncommon. Henceforth why you see safes that are 150+ years olds, and their locks still function perfectly. You won't get that with an electronic lock, not for a long time.

Your argument about not locking your safe because it has a mechanical lock is completely subjective. You might not lock a safe with a mechanical lock, but you don't have any authority to project that on others. My safe, with a mechanical and key lock, gets locked every single time, if it had an electronic lock, it would get locked every single time. Doesn't make a difference to me.

Thank to all for your responses. Trying to to some research on both brands. I'm leaning towards a mechanical, but I'll see what I can learn.

Why a SnapSafe, over a Zanotti, etc?

Found this thread in Active Topics, so school me fellas.

This argument has been raging since we introduced the first e-lock for safes in 1990. The truths are:

In general, considering all lock manufacturers as a group, e-locks are less dependable than mechanical locks. With that, the trouble has been with mass failures or continuing quality issues on certain brands that have skewed the reliability metrics, which are then applied to all locks, regardless of brand. There are good e-locks out there, just ask a locksmith or safe tech which ones they know are reliable...

The key difference in the perceived failure rate is deceptive. Generally, when an e-lock dies, it's toast much of the time, drill job. With mechanical locks, there are usually clues to an impending lockout. Moreover, the likely hood that more than one thing has failed is very remote. The nature of a mechanical lock failure is incremental, and a skilled tech can usually coax the lock to open once more with various techniques. So, the percentage of drill jobs with failing mechanical locks is much lower. It's not that they fail much less, they fail with some hope they can be persuaded to work once more.

Mechanical locks have a very short life, relatively speaking. Quality E-Locks will operate far longer. A typical high-quality 3-wheel combo lock is good for 30,000 cycles at best. Wear is their weakness, and delicate mechanical design is easily fouled. E locks are, by nature, removed from the abusive connection to the User. They live in a controlled environment, connected by a wire, rather than a mechanical means to cause damages. They have fewer moving parts, and if they are well made can last. We test our locks to 1,000,000 cycles. You only have to open 10,000 times to get a UL listing. So, many of those e-locks out there probably never life-tested to failure.

Quality range is vast in e-locks. There have been a lot of flops in the e-lock market. Some big names have crashed and burned multiple times. They give the industry as a whole a bad reputation. Sad, but true. Import copy-cats are the worst, flooding the market with their junk locks and then having a melt-down after there are massive populations deployed. They don't care, and they just revise and move on with the next generation. The safe makers are the ones stuck holding the bag. We don't even try to make warranty claims against any of the lock companies any more. Even the name brands bury you in red tape and deny almost every claim you try to submit. It's hardly worth the time and trouble, because they only cover parts anyway, but we paid for a $300 drill-job, WTF?

We look at failure rates of all lock types by model. Number of unit sold vs number of units serviced under warranty. Simple math. E-lock failures for ESL10XL locks today are 1/2 the failure rate of any mechanical lock we install. Some e-lock brands are MUCH worse than others, but I won't throw anyone under the bus here.

Why is that? Simple... the lock makers world-wide don't interface with the end user, or even safe techs and locksmiths. They sell to distributors and safe makers. They don't get the feedback, and it's pretty clear they are not actively addressing service problems as they arise and implementing corrective action plans to eliminate the problems. Most of those guys look at an e-lock as a done deal when it's released for production. It's not like that at all. There is a constant ongoing evolution as problems arise that require design changes, quality procedures to improve, and strict and tenacious control of electronic components. Moreover, they don't bear the burden of paying for lockouts when they occur, their warranty covers parts only, so the financial motivation to improve is not there.

Are e-locks better? I think so. I can open my safe in 3 seconds, in the dark. You sure can't do that with any dial lock...

I have 3 safes. Two with electronic locks and one with mechanical.  All the good stuff is in the mechanical lock safe.

Take it for what its worth.

Wasn't it TSG that said in this forum that the securam is the the cheapest Chinese lock to ever obtain a UL rating?  It's one of the bad ones.

I have one of the redundant securams, it very well may be a cheap lock, but the redundancy alleviates my stress on the matter. If the electronic fails, the mechanical still works. This let's me get in, relocate to another location, and get the lock repaired or replaced.

I don't know of one person that leaves their safe unlocked because it is a mechanical lock.
And I actually know several people that own gun safes as well as other types of safes.
A mechanical lock is not that damn complicated to operate as you make out guy.

For me, it seems that there is a long wait time - 6-12 months I've heard to get one. SnapSafe says they ship within 5-6 days.



 

Thank you SafeGuy, this is very informative.

http://youtu.be/uZOwQJJBtpE




 

Another vote for the Safelogic Xtreme.

As stated the install is fairly easy.

You do often have to drill a hole in the relocker plate to match the mounting
hole pattern on the new lock. Not a big deal if you are used to working on
household projects. Just take your time on it.

Outstanding lock and great piece of mind with the quickness of an electronic
lock and the reliability of the mechanical side.

Also EMP proof.

I think that's the one I had, and had to replace the keypad 3 times in about 5 years. My mechanical is 15+ years old and going strong. The e-lock is more convenient but after my experience I have a hard time trusting one.

Have any of the big manufacturers actually EMP tested their e-locks?

s&g did

http://www.libertysafe.com/images/downloads/SGEmpTesting.pdf

Interesting test. I don't know if those units that were tested were built to withstand the EMP. Or if they are more run of the mill consumer locks. Is the level of EMP they used some sort of standard or a worst case from natural and man made causes?

As I have said on here before, EMP is way overblown in the context of safe locks and was really started by playing on the 'prepper' fears of gun enthusiasts.

There was an article a few years ago in one of the QST magazines (ARRL's Ham Radio monthly) that focused on EMP and its impact on radio systems. This is obviously important to understand in the context of emergency communications, one of ham radio's biggest roles.

The upshot is that most electronics will be fine in the event of an EMP provided they aren't plugged into the wall when the EMP happens. Things with antennas (especially long antennas like with HF Ham radio) and things plugged into a power outlet during the EMP were most susceptible. The antenna 'harvests' energy from the EMP and transmits it directly into the device. The power lines work like a giant antenna in the event of the EMP, hence its effect as well.

Things without antennas, or things with very small antennas (like handheld radios) were much less susceptible.

The primary advantage to an EMP during war is blowing out the power grid and disrupting communications of your enemies. It won't fry every single piece of consumer electronics like the movies make us believe.

An electronic safe lock run on batteries, with the majority of the electronics inside of the lock case behind a steel door anyways, is unlikely to be impacted. I am sure S&G did their study due to pressure because of other companies marketing 'emp proof' locks. I would have been surprised if their locks would have failed the tests.

Ok, I have a safe with a Securam e-lock that has had the keypad replaced twice now. Is there a better e-lock I can replace it with? I've lost all confidence in it.

the units tested are some of their consumer locks, including the titan lock which came with my liberty.



it was the testing which sold me on getting a digital lock. safe, secure, ridiculously easy/fast to use and emp-safe (whether overblown or not). good enough for me. also happened to be on sale vs the mechanical one ;)

What S&G proved with their testing was that all e-locks on safes are EMP resistant. They didn't alter their product to pass the test, and the basic design is a copy of the first/original KPL100 digital safe lock that we produced way back in 1990. The electronics are all inside the lock, and the safe is a natural EMP barrier. The keypads on most common safe locks are simple input devices without any sophisticated electronics. Even if the keypad is damaged, it can be replaced and operate the lock inside.

Buyer beware... EMP is not a real concern, it's a gimmic to get you to buy expensive redundant locks.

So which e-lock brands and which safe brands should we steer away from to avoid problem prone locks?

I don't know much but after reading about the magic tools that can be used to open a electronic lock and the units that are unable to be opened that way, I chose the ESL10XL lock for that reason and their reliability. Lower on the list of reasons is there is a source here that can answer ANY question that one may ever have about it. Thank you sir for continuing to offer input.