This post is from many years ago, but I was recently talking to a friend of mine about it all, and decided to repost it for the newer members of the site.
I hope this information helps.

This whole experience was many months in the making. I will do my best to describe everything for the newcomer to buying a safe. (pics at the bottom)

I've wanted a gun safe for some time. My collection is not large, but I plan on it growing over the course of my life. I know that the common wisdom is to buy larger than you need if you don't want to do it over again, so I started to educate myself for what was to be a lifetime purchase.

I started where most everyone starts, the local gun shop/ outdoor store. I saw the prices, fire ratings, burglar ratings (or so I thought), and didn't know what to think.

I started reading, and stumbled onto this video. If you haven't seen it, it is well worth the time.
The "safe" in this video is the lowest line of the Liberty brand as I understand it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPUrqStiSTQ
This video really shook my confidence in buying a "safe" from a sporting goods store if I really wanted it to be a single lifetime purchase.

We'll get back to my story in a moment, but at this point, a brief overview of the two safe rating systems is warranted. This is a condensed version of the information I gathered while doing my research on the matter.
Scroll down to "Tech info stops here" if you know about this already.

/*Tech info starts here:
There are two rating systems, the old insurance rating (B, C, E, F) and the UL rating.
There are better descriptions on the web than this, but this should serve as an overview.
(copied in part from http://www.doubleasecurity.net/SAFE_INVENTORY/SAFERATE2.htm)

Old Insurance Rating System:
"B" Rate Safe: A safe with at least a 1/4 inch body, 1/2 inch door. These safes face no testing and the presence of a locking device on the box give them the "B" rating.

"C" Rate Safe: This is defined as a 1/2 inch thick steel box with a 1 inch thick door and lock on it. It must have hard plate and re-lock. As before no tests are given to provide this rating.

"E" Rate Safe: The label requires that the safe be constructed of 1 inch solid steel or equivalent. It is normally a safe similar in construction to a TL-15, yet has not been tested by an Independent testing company.

"F" Rate Safe : No real definitive description. Tougher than E-rate.

UL Rating system:
Residential Security Container (RSC or otherwise TL-5) - If properly bolted to the floor, this will resist attack for a minimum of 5 minutes from common hand tools (hammer, screwdriver, prybar). If it is not bolted to the floor, the rating is void (as seen in the video posted above).

TL-15 - Will resist attack on its front/face for a minimum of 15 minutes using power tools. Sides are to be constructed to some minimum thickness, but are not attacked for the rating.

TL-30 - same as TL-15 but for 30 minutes.

TL-15x6 and TL-30x6 - same as the two above, but attack is conducted on all 6 sides.
TRTL/TRTXTL - I won't even go there... suffice it to say that explosives are allowed in the testing.... look it up.

It is important to note that the time indicated by UL is net working time. The stop watch is started and stopped each time the tools go on the safe. The test literally takes days as the UL engineers map out exactly how to attack it using the manufacturers blue prints.
To see what a UL test is like, see this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtbGUbeM860
Roughly, E-rate is TL-15 and F-rate is TL-30.
Tech info ends here */

Now that we've got that out of the way...
I knew I needed something more substantial than a standard RSC if this was to be a once in a lifetime purchase. So I began to price some TL rated safes .............. and about passed out.


American Security's HF series (TL-30 rated) gun safes start at 14k new without shipping and installation.
Graffunder's B-rate start at around 6k without shipping
(I could just picture myself in a burglary saying, "Please don't hurt my safe!!.. I'll open it for you, just don't hit it!") My contents are barely a fraction of that cost, so this was just ridiculous.

So just when I was about to give up on getting a safe any time this decade, I read a recommendation on the net to look for used safes locally. It was said that businesses closing will almost give them away if you haul them off. So I called the local (and only) safe mover in town. It became an experience I would almost regret.

I called them up and explained what I wanted. (used jewelers safe or similar) They said they knew of one in town and would arrange for me to come and see it. (It was in the jewelers wharehouse.)
Well, Almost 2 weeks later and too many phone calls to remember, I was finally able to go and see it. It was a used Worldwide safe - WW-6032. They wanted $5k for it.

Now, I had never heard of WW. I'd looked at what I thought were all the major safe makers. But it turns out that if you google "safe", worldwide never really shows up. (likely due to the common use of the term "worldwide") So... I called them up to get some specs and pricing information. This safe new from WW was $4800 delivered. So, basically, my local guy was gonna take me on this one bad in addition to REALLY bad service.

I began talking to the WW salesman about the specs, etc. He then told me that a jewelry store chain was closing and they had 18 of the larger WW-6536 that they had to get rid of. $3800 delivered!! I sent him a check as soon as we had the details figured out.

On to the fun stuff... the specs and pics.

Interior - 65” 36” 26”
Exterior - 72” 43” 35 1/2”
4424 LBS, 35.2 cubic feet interior
TL-30 rating
2 hour fire rating (other independent lab, not UL)


From the website: http://worldwidesafe.com/prodTL30.htm
"The Body is a composite (12,000 PSI) single bell cast, one-piece design with solid 3 1/2” thick walls. The high density insulating materials incorporated into the construction of the body and door insure two hours of certified fire protection. The massive 6” thick door houses the impressive three-way active 1 1/2” diameter chrome plated bolts, which engage both vertically and horizontally into the cast of the body. The bolts stay in the retracted position when the door is opened and automatically engage when the door is closed. The door has been equipped with self-lubricating ball bearing adjustable hinges that ensure a lifetime of use."

Now we wait... and wait.. and wait. It turns out that it isn't very easy to find a truck with a liftgate that can handle 4000+ pounds. Mayflower (who WW contracted to move the safe) had to rent a truck from Enterprise (in the next city over an hour away) to deliver it to my house. This truck had a lift gate that was rated for 5000 pounds, and you could tell it was struggling to hold it. Mayflower brought 6 men with moving tools, and it took about an hour to put it where I wanted (no details, but trust me it was a very basic install, my house is a single story.) It is amazing how difficult it is to move something so compact that weighs more than a car. Needless to say, I am not worried about anyone walking off with it.

I still have to finish the inside. This is a jewelers safe, not a gun safe. I will need a bit of creativity, some plywood, and some carpet to finish the inside myself. Well worth the price differential in my opinion. This is a pic of it in WW's warehouse before shipping. I may take a pic of the interior when I finish, but I may not... we'll see.




All in all, I like the deal I got. I thought WW was a great company to deal with. I would highly recommend them. (As of two weeks ago, they still had 17 of these left)
If you want to deal with my WW contact, here is his info:

George Pazos
Worldwide Safe and Vault, Inc.
3660 NW 115th, Miami, FL 33178 USA
Toll Free: 800-932-2278 x 224
Local: 305-477-9266 x 224
Fax: 305-477-9744

**I am not affiliated with Worldwide Safe in any way.  Just a satisfied customer who wanted to reshare a story.

4400 lbs?

3.5 inches thick?

got-DAMN!

I also had a great experience with George. The safe is awesome but heavy. I bought the same one in 2009 and have had zero issue's. Post some pics of the interior when your done. Good job!!

Thanks for posting, I remember the original story and almost followed the same route as you did with Worldwide.

I did purchase a TL rated box from a local dealer. It is nice to hear stories from people who actually own a safe.

I had mine (tl-15) delivered on a roll-back wrecker.

When you're looking to spend once, the tl-30 (or 15) is the way to go.

For the same money, you can get nice duck paintings, or real steel.

I'll take the steel.

Is it feasible for movers to be able to bring this down a flight of basement stairs? Yes I understand it's not a job for the untrained and yes I realize the stairs would need significant reinforcement, but is it a job someone would be willing to take on?

I would not trust what you describe to normal residential movers.  Most won't touch it if you describe it to them.

You need to contact a safe mover, or heavy equipment mover.  Mayflower did mine, they move printing presses and the like.

If the stairs can hold it, it may be possible, but I am not an expert.  I hired people for it.

That does seem like a hell of a deal for $3800 delivered.  What state were they coming out of, LA also?

Not my story but as I recall the safe came from Florida which is were World Wide is based.

Yep.  $3800 shipped from FL to LA and installed.  It was used, but it's still my opinion that WW is the best kept secret in the safe industry.

I purchased the same thing you did from George at WW a few months ago (largely due to reading your original thread). Wonderful guy to deal with, excellent communication and tons of knowledge and happy to help guide newbies like myself to make an informed decision.   I think I payed $4375 for mine shipped but that also included the door organizer.   I was really close on pulling the trigger on an amsec BF series, so glad I didnt.

Wait.... what door organizer?

Pics please!!!!

I am at work and dont have access to any..but its the Amsec 7250 (or whatever the equivalent is) door organizer.

edit: Found a pic that George sent for representation:

Ultimately, it boils down to the fact that unless you are in the safe industry, it's very difficult to "score" a used TL safe. After years (yes, years) of watching the local sales ads, craigslist, etc, I finally scored a TL-30 for my dad ($500, you get it out of here). The fact of the matter is, if you want/need a TL safe now, odds of finding a screaming deal are very low.

Nice safe OP!

This isn't the experience I've had, in the last decade I've found several deals on old safes.  Some were TL rated, some were old enough that they had no rating at all.  One went to auction very similar to the OP's but a little larger (actually sold by World Wide Safe).  I told the owner to let me know what he wanted for it, he sent it to auction and it went for $500.  A local jeweler is going out of business near me in the next couple of months.  I can probably get the safe out of his store for less than $1000.

And no, I'm not "in the safe business".

I think it depends on how big of a city you live in as to how fast the turnover in used safes is...especially TL rated.
My area didn't have much.

did WW refurb the locks or any other maintenance between the retailer and your delivery?

You guys who are buying used safes online and having them shipped all across the country are nuts.  There are plenty of guys who deal with these things within your own states, and you can cut out the built in expense of shipping.

They replace the original locks with the setup you'd like...single mechanical dial, dual mechanical dial, key pad etc.  




I really didnt want to go that route but couldnt find anything local/close to local for the same price and the size I wanted.  I am sure if I'd waited and looked harder I could've found something but I'd been without a safe long enough and WWs solution fit the bill (for me) perfectly.

I got refurbed locks of my choice (key or dial).  Mine came with 2 locks as its a commercial safe, and they use it for manager/employee separate locks.

I chose 2 dial locks (S&G)

I would agree, but I searched pretty well in my area.  Shipping is still an expense no matter if its a few blocks away or a few states away.  Once its on a truck, that's the cheap part.  Its the loading and unloading that is the expensive part.  The difference in price to ship from FL to LA was around $700 if I recall (including placement at my location).  When I moved last year, it was $500 to move it 2 miles.

There is a local safe dealer to me that has good deals periodically on cosmetic damaged safes. I'm holding off until the wife and I are closer to moving but they've had a couple prospects I almost jumped on impulsively. If you have a lot of chain businesses in your area and a bigger housing market, there's a good chance these businesses will be something of a revolving door and you can fairly frequently get used safes either from them or from the dealer who sold them the safes originally.