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Posted: 9/3/2015 6:20:34 PM EDT
I've researched some, but still have a few questions.




I'm planning to add fire protection to a 4x6 closet to house my safe as well as some things I want protected but don't have room in the safe for. While I'm at it I plan on adding a little theft protection to the closet as well. Think: Most bang for my buck. I don't have unreasonably high security expectations of this room. I'd just like to make it very inconvenient for a bad guy. My budget is about $1000. Less would make the spousal unit very happy.




My plans so far:

1) A much better door. I'm open to ideas on this, but I've heard of using a solid core door or buying a hollow metal door and filling it with concrete(I would need a source for this one). The door is only 24" wide and I'd like to keep it this way. I don't want to refinish the wall outside of the closet except for maybe trim.




Any other ideas for beefing up the door security are welcome. Locking mechanisms/resistance to prying in particular.




2)I'll either modify the existing door jamb with metal stripping that the dead bolt(s) go through or add a steel door jamb. Thoughts?




3)I'm planning on tearing out the sheetrock inside the closet and adding this or something similar inside the wall cavities.








Are there any better products that are reasonably priced?




4a)While I'm in the wall I'd like to add some extra security. I'm thinking about horizontal 2x4 bracing between the studs to tie them together, and maybe some type of metal strapping screwed in horizontally as well. Then I will add 3/4" plywood with long screws. This would be for blunt force like a sledge.  Thoughts?




4b) Would something like light extruded metal actually slow down a saw of any kind? Or, better yet, what materials would slow down/clog up a saw or angle grinder? And, which side of the insulation should I add this material?




4c) Or, instead of 4b should I run a few rows of cable or some type of metal pipe through the studs?




5) On top of the plywood I will add a couple layers of sheetrock. Any particular brand known to be better than the others for fire protection? What's the minimum total thickness I should go for?




I'll do to the ceiling anything I do to the walls.




Anything other ideas?




Thanks for the help
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:31:45 AM EDT
[#1]
Somewhere on here, someone posted about secure rooms and mentioned using hardened steel mesh (expanded metal mesh) alternating with 1/2 or 3/4 inch plywood. Sheetrock on the outside surface to finish. Inside the studs, spray expanding foam insulation. When someone tries to drill or saw thru, it will slightly melt and gum up the cutting tool.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 11:43:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for the reply. I think I'll buy a can of Great Stuff and sacrifice a blade on my circular saw as a trial. Any idea how spray foam performs in a fire?




One thing I forgot about in my plan is ventilation. I live in a humid part of Texas and since the door will stay closed a lot, it'll be like a swamp in the closet. I'm sure I can run a small 3" duct from an existing A/C duct, but I'm not sure about needing an exhaust for the air to pass through such a small space. This also creates a weak spot in my fire protection.


 
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 2:26:17 PM EDT
[#3]


I've been thinking about the same. In my new house; raised ranch I will be able to add a room like  pantry- security room.





There is enough space to build and only two walls would be needed. I was thinking of 2x6 walls with multi layer of plywood





and maybe wire mesh to fill the space off the thicker wall.  Maybe even flat pavers in the sandwich at least to certain level.





It would be difficult to pour concrete in the finished basement for me.  Any other suggestion are welcomed



I was thinking that cement board inside would have helped in fire protection.








 

Link Posted: 9/4/2015 7:56:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Bump for info
Link Posted: 9/9/2015 2:02:51 PM EDT
[#5]
5/8" sheetrock (not the lightweight crap) has a fire proof rating of 1 hour, you can double it up for extra time. Roxul insulation is fire rated and sound proof as well.
Link Posted: 9/9/2015 4:05:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Has anyone here added sheetrock to a cheap safe to increase the fire rating?
Link Posted: 9/9/2015 5:43:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Has anyone here added sheetrock to a cheap safe to increase the fire rating?
View Quote


That's basically what is in my liberty safe
Link Posted: 9/9/2015 8:19:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Multi resident buildings require all kinds of fire resistant features such as fire resistant walls around stairwells.

This pdf addresses some solutions using sheetrock and hardi board:
http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/pdf/ner-405.pdf

Partition designs start on page 6.

Link Posted: 9/10/2015 12:10:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Fire is a completely different concern but for burglary, I'd build a false shallow linen closet "interior" on a piano hinge and use one of those magnetic kitchen safety locks to keep the hidden shelf door in place.  No lock on the hollow core closet door like every other closet door in your home.  Your safe and other items could be behind that and wouldn't attract attention, as opposed to a 24" interior steel door in a hallway with a deadbolt on it.  

For fire protection, I'd look into some of the composite construction methods suggested in the other posts.  Multiple layers of 5/8 sheetrock, etc, maybe even a residential sprinkler system.
Link Posted: 9/10/2015 8:33:53 PM EDT
[#10]
if your putting in a supply duct you need a return otherwise any moisture will only be pumped in and have no where to go.if i were doing this i would add a layer of fire treated plywood to the inside then another layer of sheetrock on all sides and the cieling.as for the door i would buy a maglock on ebay and use that instead of a deadbolt.you can get 24v ac ones and they are easy to wire.

for moisture maybe a couple 36" goldenrods by the floor  would do the trick?


Link Posted: 9/10/2015 8:45:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
if your putting in a supply duct you need a return otherwise any moisture will only be pumped in and have no where to go.if i were doing this i would add a layer of fire treated plywood to the inside then another layer of sheetrock on all sides and the cieling.as for the door i would buy a maglock on ebay and use that instead of a deadbolt.you can get 24v ac ones and they are easy to wire.

for moisture maybe a couple 36" goldenrods by the floor  would do the trick?


View Quote


If you add an A/C duct be sure to add a fire damper in the duct work so you don't compromise the fire rating.
Link Posted: 9/10/2015 10:09:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks for the reply. I think I'll buy a can of Great Stuff and sacrifice a blade on my circular saw as a trial. Any idea how spray foam performs in a fire?

One thing I forgot about in my plan is ventilation. I live in a humid part of Texas and since the door will stay closed a lot, it'll be like a swamp in the closet. I'm sure I can run a small 3" duct from an existing A/C duct, but I'm not sure about needing an exhaust for the air to pass through such a small space. This also creates a weak spot in my fire protection.
 
View Quote


The Station night club burned to ground and killed 100 people in ~2003, including a band member of Great White.
Cause - sparks ignited spray foam surrounding the band alcove.
Link Posted: 9/11/2015 12:16:01 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The Station night club burned to ground and killed 100 people in ~2003, including a band member of Great White.
Cause - sparks ignited spray foam surrounding the band alcove.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the reply. I think I'll buy a can of Great Stuff and sacrifice a blade on my circular saw as a trial. Any idea how spray foam performs in a fire?

One thing I forgot about in my plan is ventilation. I live in a humid part of Texas and since the door will stay closed a lot, it'll be like a swamp in the closet. I'm sure I can run a small 3" duct from an existing A/C duct, but I'm not sure about needing an exhaust for the air to pass through such a small space. This also creates a weak spot in my fire protection.
 


The Station night club burned to ground and killed 100 people in ~2003, including a band member of Great White.
Cause - sparks ignited spray foam surrounding the band alcove.


Close, but it wasn't spray foam.  Think more on the lines of the cheap foam rolls that you can buy to put on your mattress.  They do have non-flammable spray foam insulation.  It is actually used as fire stop to prevent fire from spreading.  I have heard that regular great stuff foam won't burn, but I haven't tested or seen any documentation on that.
Link Posted: 9/11/2015 12:20:37 AM EDT
[#14]
If you are on a slab, then you might want to ponder the idea of building your walls like you said with expanded metal, plywood, and drywall... and then fill the void in the wall to the top with gravel.  It would play hell with blades, it's pretty cheap, would semi-insulate. But i would only consider it if you are on a slab due to the weight.
Link Posted: 9/12/2015 1:44:56 PM EDT
[#15]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If you are on a slab, then you might want to ponder the idea of building your walls like you said with expanded metal, plywood, and drywall... and then fill the void in the wall to the top with gravel.  It would play hell with blades, it's pretty cheap, would semi-insulate. But i would only consider it if you are on a slab due to the weight.
View Quote
Now, that's something I haven't thought of. I'll look into this more.

 
Link Posted: 9/12/2015 6:33:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Put a dehumidifier in the room with a drain tube to the waste water pipes.
Link Posted: 9/17/2015 2:31:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If you are on a slab, then you might want to ponder the idea of building your walls like you said with expanded metal, plywood, and drywall... and then fill the void in the wall to the top with gravel.  It would play hell with blades, it's pretty cheap, would semi-insulate. But i would only consider it if you are on a slab due to the weight.
View Quote

While it would certainly slow them down, it wouldn't take much to rip hole in bottom of wall, remove gravel from that stud-space, and continue the break-in...

For something nearly as effective but harder to bypass I would look into a sandwiched composite. The first layer would be cementicious backer board (hardiboard, Durock, etc like used underneath tile); it is a cement-like product that comes in sheets like drywall. It is heavier, but it also provides some structural rigidity. It will chew up saw-blades, although not as fast as gravel in the wall. The 2nd layer would be a layer of expanded steel mesh with thinset mudded over it in preparation for a 2nd layer of cement backer board. The combination of 2 layers of backer board with a sheet of expanded steel mesh all bonded into a solid sheet with thinset (concrete like substance used to attach tile to subfloor) would provide a VERY sturdy, cut-resistant, fire-resistant wall. The only thing you have to do after that is ensure you have enough of an insulating or active fire-proofing material (insulation or sheetrock) to provide the level of fire resistance you desire.

All other things like steel bars etc are just additional time-delaying measures.

I will say that a normal carbide wood blade on a saw will have NO issues cutting through small amounts of steel and other metals. It's the prolonged cutting or the cutting of thick or hardened metals that is going to give it a little more trouble. Afterall, the tungsten-carbide used in saw-blades is the exact same tungsten-carbide used in machining to cut hardened steels. The only difference is the cutter shape/geometery, cutter coating, and cutter speed. If the geometry, speed, or coating are "improper" it will lead to reduced cutter life but it's not an instant death-sentence to the blade.

For real cut resistance you want harder materials (to break down the cutter material) or tougher materials (so the cutter will chip/break before the item being cut). Tungsten carbide is some super hard yet very tough stuff. By that respect you need stone/rock-like materials or LOTS of steel. The harder the steel the less you need to break down the saw-blade's effectiveness. Steel rebar used for concrete is one thing that is fairly hard compared to its cost, I've seen a thread here before where the individual drilled holes ever 6" in his studs and slid full lengths of rebar into the holes to provide and relatively impenetrable barrier between the studs. While this won't stop a determined person with a good saw & blade, it will stop the sledge-hammer thief and greatly slow down the saw thief.
Link Posted: 9/27/2015 3:55:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Years ago a friend was building one of those "check cashing" places.
The wall between the cashiers and customers was framed with 2x12s 2 layers of 3/4 plywood and 2 layers 5/8 drywall, on both sides.
The top plate was drilled out with hole saw and filled with pee gravel.
Your not kicking your way in and will stop a hand gun. (For the most part)
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