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Posted: 3/21/2015 12:35:38 PM EDT
[#1]
All three are good choices but the Amsec and Summit will give better fire protection with the Amsec being easily the better of the two.
It would probably be better if you did opt for more steel and drop the fireliner on the Sturdy if fire is really not that much of a concern for you. I can say though that after watching the two safe and vault guys unload my 1250 pound Amsec BF6636,then take it off the pallet and get it into my house and place it exactly where I wanted and bolt it to the slab foundation I was happy to spend the money for this task. These safes are heavy and bulky so please be careful. |
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Posted: 3/21/2015 12:47:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Just my .02, buy the Summit, based on what I saw on their website, 7 gauge body and 3/8 door, more then enough for a RSC, in a real world situation it would hold up against an attack just fine. If the BG had the means to compromise the Summit they could also defeat the Sturdy/Amsec just as easily.
What if you order and it is damaged when you uncrate it, phucking nightmare to deal with, also a lot of weight to take over grass and cellar, assume stairs, more danger of going wrong and damage possibly. The local dealer takes the issues out of the equation, Summit just as secure all things considered, buy the Summit. Boom done just my .02 |
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Posted: 3/21/2015 4:12:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Are the Summits still made by Heritage and Champion?
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Posted: 3/21/2015 9:18:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are the Summits still made by Heritage and Champion? Found this image as well which looks identical to what I saw yesterday. It looked impressive; however, I am not sure if it's design is a significant difference from other comparable safes |
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Posted: 3/21/2015 9:31:44 PM EDT
[#5]
I purchased a Sturdy and also opted for more steel rather than the fire liner. 4ga body and additional 7ga welded inside. I have a monitored alarm for fire (simplisafe) and the fire station is nearby. I'm very happy with the safe and the ability to lift the door off and on made installation easier.
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Posted: 3/21/2015 9:39:49 PM EDT
[#6]
An outdoor furnace manufacturer building safes..........
I'd buy a safe from a safe manufacturer with a background in the security business given the choice. |
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Posted: 3/21/2015 9:57:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An outdoor furnace manufacturer building safes.......... I'd buy a safe from a safe manufacturer with a background in the security business given the choice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
An outdoor furnace manufacturer building safes.......... I'd buy a safe from a safe manufacturer with a background in the security business given the choice. Quoted:
I purchased a Sturdy and also opted for more steel rather than the fire liner. 4ga body and additional 7ga welded inside. I have a monitored alarm for fire (simplisafe) and the fire station is nearby. I'm very happy with the safe and the ability to lift the door off and on made installation easier. |
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Posted: 3/21/2015 10:19:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An outdoor furnace manufacturer building safes.......... I'd buy a safe from a safe manufacturer with a background in the security business given the choice. Who is an outdoor furnace manufacturer making safes? thanks |
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Posted: 3/21/2015 10:26:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who is an outdoor furnace manufacturer making safes? thanks Reeds Custom Safes They currently manufacture Summit Safes. They have been constructing safes for five years. One of the safes I have been looking at. Prior to making safes they were involved with outdoor furnaces. |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 8:23:31 AM EDT
[#10]
For the first 20 years of its existence, Glock had nothing to do with handguns either...now they make one of the most successful in the world. It certainly bears being skeptical of a newcomer, but sometimes having a fresh perspective can be a plus.
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Posted: 3/22/2015 8:26:01 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
I have visited and revisited several dealers in my area and ended with the Summit dealer. I have reduced the choices to three: Summit Rainier 6440 (they are using external hinges now), Amsec BF 7240, and the Sturdy Model 4227-6 with fire liner. The Summit dealer came in with 3800 dollars delivered and installed. The AMSEC brick and mortar dealer (aka Liberty Pimp) was not close so I would be ordering online at this point 4500 to drop off in driveway. The Sturdy list price is 3944 but I have a contact in for a reduced price. I tried to keep these as similar as possible. I guess I am thinking of couple things and would be interested in some input. Between these choices, if it was my $$$, I would get the Amsec. Solid company standing behind the product with proven results. Amsec makes a great safe. As for moving the safe, those are way too heavy to attempt it yourself without the right equipment and experience. Too easy for something to go wrong and for someone to get hurt. It just isn't worth it to save a few hundred dollars on a product that should last your life. ---Aaron |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 9:29:46 AM EDT
[#12]
but sometimes having a fresh perspective can be a plus. If you have never broken into a safe, you really have no idea what it takes to keep somebody out. Thats why all of these companies only build gun safes, and not real safes. When it comes to providing any real security, they don't know what they're doing, and it's not just something you figure out because you have a new perspective without any background experience. And you have a point about Glock. He didn't have any background in firearms. However: Glock became aware of the Austrian Army's planned procurement and in 1982 assembled a team of Europe's leading handgun experts He didn't tinker something together in his garage and proclaim himself to be an expert. And he didn't let people rely on his product until thoroughly put to the test. Can those buying safes from these oddball companies really rely on them to perform as advertised? In many cases, I would say no. |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 9:34:25 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryGlock became aware of the Austrian Army's planned procurement and in 1982 assembled a team of Europe's leading handgun experts He didn't tinker something together in his garage and proclaim himself to be an expert. And he didn't let people rely on his product until thoroughly put to the test. Can those buying safes from these oddball companies really rely on them to perform as advertised? In many cases, I would say no. Yah, I don't think we are disagreeing, but I think we should be careful of summarily dismissing a safe company because they used to make outdoor furnaces. They may make a terrible product, or they may have brought in some experts and developed a good product. The fact that they used to make furnaces, gas grills, or sewer covers does not, by itself, disqualify them from being able to make a good safe. Thats all I was saying. As I stated, skepticism is important. |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 9:50:52 AM EDT
[#14]
We agree. Consumers should remember that a gun safe manufacturer can employ the best welders, the best painters, and the best cabinet makers to produce the best looking gun safe on the market. And if looks are what you need, it may suit you just fine. However, most safes are purchased to protect against fire and theft. And without that background and experience, they simply do not have a solid foundation to build upon.
I can assure you that a safe I built at home in my garage would be designed differently than the safe the furnace manufacturer built at home in his. 
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Posted: 3/22/2015 11:02:24 AM EDT
[#15]
I am going to retract my Summit advice posted above, I always heard Summit made a decent RSC and it appears the manufacturing has changed which may/may not be a quality RSC. The Sturdy or Amsec would be good but you still are going to have to contend with the moving and install. Let us know how this turns out when you are done.
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Posted: 3/23/2015 8:37:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Well, I guess the quoted price for the AMSEC was a bit off as the number from a big online distributor came closer to 3800. Apparently you have to call now to get the best prices. This price included free shipping. If you wanted Estes LTL freight cost was 560. Anyone know why people select that option?
I reached out to AMSEC brick and mortar dealers a bit further away (200 mile radius) and their prices were more than 1000 dollars above the online major online dealer and that was with me picking up and installing the safe. Furthermore, they knew very little about he AMSEC BF line. In fact I have gleaned more product knowledge from people in this forum than the salespeople representing their BF safe line in my area. I get it... they have other priorities that actually pay the bills so why waste the time and money? Perhaps AMSEC should consider selling their safes directly to consumers, and doing a better job connecting consumers with safe pros for moving, installation, and maintenance. Anyway their dealer network 200 miles out from me leaves very poor impressions. Sturdy also got back to me and their price was less than the AMSEC and with a phone call will come down more. I did contact the Summit dealer with some questions. First, what was the reason for dissolving the relationship Summit had with their prior manufacturer. Second, why is a former furnace maker turned gun safe manufacturer a better choice than a company that has years of experience in the field (Amsec). Still waiting for the response. Anyway I do have two more brick and mortars to hear from and a several more big online dealers to contact. I am also going to ask Sturdy for a quote on non-fire liner safe slightly larger and with more steel. |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 9:11:07 PM EDT
[#17]
I bought a Sturdy without the fireliner. Larger interior that way. Mine has 4 ga walls and a 3/8" plate door.
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Posted: 3/23/2015 9:39:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought a Sturdy without the fireliner. Larger interior that way. Mine has 4 ga walls and a 3/8" plate door. |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 6:28:29 AM EDT
[#19]
Depending on what part of PA you're in, give Steve's Service a call. He can give you some competitive pricing on the Ft Knox line and can probably help answer any questions you might have regarding installs. If nothing else he can probably point you to a more local dealer.
Steve's Service Vienna, VA 22180 703-573-4394 Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 10:58:04 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you do the install? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I bought a Sturdy without the fireliner. Larger interior that way. Mine has 4 ga walls and a 3/8" plate door. Yes. It only weights around 730 lbs and I removed the door to make moving it easier. I didn't need to go up or down stairs which helped. |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 7:34:40 PM EDT
[#21]
You might also talk to Lacka Safe (NJ) and World Wide (FL) if you want to go high security.
Old WW Thread |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 9:08:57 PM EDT
[#22]
If you want a sturdy, skip the fireliner. There are more than a few threads on that topic here and in the big safe thread, there are some actual numbers to show the "high tech fiberglass insulation" is a joke when it comes to actual measured temps in the safe.
If you want a steel box to keep out the kids and maybe a couple crackheads looking for an easy score, the sturdy would probably suit you just fine. but if you have any concern about fire, the Amsec is the only real choice of the three mentioned. |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 10:16:49 PM EDT
[#23]
A friend of mine suggested using a "Rol-a-lift" dolly. He believes my situation is suitable for such tool. I was clueless such a tool existed so I googled it. The dolly definitely appears like a viable option; however, it appeared to be too easy. Anyone use one of these?
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Posted: 3/24/2015 10:21:22 PM EDT
[#24]
Anyone use one of these? I use them all the time, and they're a hassle. A pallet jack is better in most situations. |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 10:27:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use them all the time, and they're a hassle. A pallet jack is better in most situations. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone use one of these? I use them all the time, and they're a hassle. A pallet jack is better in most situations. |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 10:43:14 PM EDT
[#26]
I always joke that me and pallet jacks are like women and shoes. I can't pass up one that's on sale, or looks different than the others. The jacks with narrower and or shorter forks are easier for rolling through confined areas. You'll probably find that the "standard" 27" x 48 sized jack will be what companies have available for rent.
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Posted: 3/24/2015 10:58:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always joke that me and pallet jacks are like women and shoes. I can't pass up one that's on sale, or looks different than the others. The jacks with narrower and or shorter forks are easier for rolling through confined areas. You'll probably find that the "standard" 27" x 48 sized jack will be what companies have available for rent. |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 11:09:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Are there any abnormal balance issues to worry with if moving a six foot safe on a pallet jack? Only if you get really crazy.
The only benefit, which is also a detriment, of the rol lifts is their 360 degree range of motion. A pallet jack is limited to its steering ability, but is much faster and safer. |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 11:18:06 PM EDT
[#29]
LMAO... that is crazy! If that was successful without getting anyone killed, I think I am in good shape.
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Posted: 3/25/2015 8:47:10 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LMAO... that is crazy! If that was successful without getting anyone killed, I think I am in good shape. Doesn't look much different than what they did when they delivered my safe, cept they had 4 guys working it. Pallet jack was they key tool. ---Aaron |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 1:04:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only if you get really crazy.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/a1abdj/safemove1.jpg The only benefit, which is also a detriment, of the rol lifts is their 360 degree range of motion. A pallet jack is limited to its steering ability, but is much faster and safer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are there any abnormal balance issues to worry with if moving a six foot safe on a pallet jack? Only if you get really crazy.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/a1abdj/safemove1.jpg The only benefit, which is also a detriment, of the rol lifts is their 360 degree range of motion. A pallet jack is limited to its steering ability, but is much faster and safer. WOW! Jackstands too! But I have seen some of your other photos and threads, so I know you know your stuff... |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 1:18:31 PM EDT
[#32]
WOW! Jackstands too! But I have seen some of your other photos and threads, so I know you know your stuff... Sometimes I just get lucky.
We were out in the middle of nowhere, and were limited to what we had on the truck. Typically we would use the stair climber and lay the safe on its side to get it through the door, and then stand it back up once inside. We didn't have that option here due to clearance issues, and had to make do with what we had to work with. Had we known in advance, we would have had some different equipment on the truck. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 7:37:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Frank, you should post a picture of your Original Platinum delivery on the "Flat Lot" (per the customers description).
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Posted: 3/25/2015 8:15:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Frank, you should post a picture of your Original Platinum delivery on the "Flat Lot" (per the customers description). We get a lot of work that others won't touch, or are honestly not capable of doing. This is the delivery that was called out as having a flat, level yard for a safe in the 3,000 pound range. 
We deal with plenty of situations where we are dealing with clearances measured in fractions of an inch: 
We use all manner of heavy equipment to negotiate heights, steep terrain, or extreme weight: 
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Posted: 3/26/2015 12:16:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We get a lot of work that others won't touch, or are honestly not capable of doing. This is the delivery that was called out as having a flat, level yard for a safe in the 3,000 pound range. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Frank, you should post a picture of your Original Platinum delivery on the "Flat Lot" (per the customers description). We get a lot of work that others won't touch, or are honestly not capable of doing. This is the delivery that was called out as having a flat, level yard for a safe in the 3,000 pound range. You're not as old as I imagined. Lot of cool photos in your gallery. |
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Posted: 3/28/2015 1:53:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Ended up at another brick mortar I had visited a while back. The owner was in house and holy shit there were American Security BFs on the floor as well as some other American Security sweeties. I have to say I was very impressed with his knowledge of the product which was much different than the prior person I had spoken with at the store. He definitely represented AMSEC well. Short end of the long story BF 7240 with four gauge liner ordered and they are delivering. He is trying to get in with a current order but could not guarantee it. If it doesn't come in I will have to wait a bit. I paid a bit more than I would have online but that was largely due to taxes.
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Posted: 3/28/2015 2:00:30 PM EDT
[#37]
Did you tell the owner about your prior experience? If I were an owner and someone drops the ball on a potential sale I would want to know. Congrats by the way.
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Posted: 3/28/2015 2:42:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you tell the owner about your prior experience? If I were an owner and someone drops the ball on a potential sale I would want to know. Congrats by the way. They also had a lot more product literature. The Intertek laboratory chart, that the TheSafeGuy posted in his Q&A thread, was located on several safes. I had a good chuckle as one was full blown poster size. There were several display cut outs demonstrating the difference between the regular liner vs the four gauge liner. Same cuts outs were used to show the difference between the American Security fireliner and other companies. He definitely is a proponent of the concrete sandwiched between steel vs just steel. He had an interesting display to support that argument. I definitely mistook the prior person as the owner though my wife is convinced the guy I talked to presented himself as the owner. |
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Posted: 3/28/2015 2:51:23 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not exactly but I did mention I was there earlier and there didn't seem much interest in moving American Security safes vs the Liberty. He didn't have much to say other than the American Security BF was a superior safe to a Liberty, and that he couldn't justify telling a customer to spend more money on a National Security. However, he said Liberty is well known by consumers and even when armed with information they will sometimes still want the Liberty so he stocks them. They also had a lot more product literature. The Intertek laboratory chart, that the TheSafeGuy posted in his Q&A thread, was located on several safes. I had a good chuckle as one was full blown poster size. There were several display cut outs demonstrating the difference between the regular liner vs the four gauge liner. Same cuts outs were used to show the difference between the American Security fireliner and other companies. He definitely is a proponent of the concrete sandwiched between steel vs just steel. He had an interesting display to support that argument. I definitely mistook the prior person as the owner though my wife is convinced the guy I talked to presented himself as the owner. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Did you tell the owner about your prior experience? If I were an owner and someone drops the ball on a potential sale I would want to know. Congrats by the way. They also had a lot more product literature. The Intertek laboratory chart, that the TheSafeGuy posted in his Q&A thread, was located on several safes. I had a good chuckle as one was full blown poster size. There were several display cut outs demonstrating the difference between the regular liner vs the four gauge liner. Same cuts outs were used to show the difference between the American Security fireliner and other companies. He definitely is a proponent of the concrete sandwiched between steel vs just steel. He had an interesting display to support that argument. I definitely mistook the prior person as the owner though my wife is convinced the guy I talked to presented himself as the owner. I think you found the place where you need to buy. There is not a chance that the National Security/Liberty Presidential are in the same overall league as the Amsec BF. They are a pretty good safe but not as good. |
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Posted: 3/28/2015 3:42:47 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... the American Security BF was a superior safe to a Liberty, and that he couldn't justify telling a customer to spend more money on a National Security. However, he said Liberty is well known by consumers and even when armed with information they will sometimes still want the Liberty so he stocks them. If I had an Amsec dealer, close to me with the same quality of service as Liberty, I would probably not have bought my Lincoln 35 last year. However, when the 2 closest Amsec dealers say "we dont deliver, but you can borrow our pallet jack" when I ask about spending $3,000 on a safe- forget it. Amsec has since overhauled both their website and dealer locator. In the future, I will look more strongly towards Amsec. Point being, even though I was armed with information, and could have spent the same ammount towards Amsec product, there are more factors that play into why people choose what they do. That being said, it sounds like you found a good Amsec dealer. |
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Posted: 3/28/2015 4:21:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Amsec has since overhauled both their website and dealer locator. In the future, I will look more strongly towards Amsec. Point being, even though I was armed with information, and could have spent the same ammount towards Amsec product, there are more factors that play into why people choose what they do. That being said, it sounds like you found a good Amsec dealer. |
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Posted: 3/28/2015 5:12:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Congratulations. A BF would have been my choice if going for a fire lined safe.
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Posted: 5/11/2015 9:41:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Safe arrived. Setting up an install date for some time next week. Question about leaving on pallet. Guy installing suggested leaving it on the pallet since it would be in the basement and on a wood floor. The room it is going in is climate controlled and finished. If I leave it on the pallet, I do have a good friend who has does amazing finishing work. Of course, my concern is rolling a safe out of the basement on a pallet jack into the back of a truck. The installer suggested that moving a 2000 lb plus safe out of my area onto a truck would be much harder and not worth the risk to a typical criminal. He suggested the water risk was greater risk. Furthermore, he added there are ways to make it more difficult to use a pallet jack once the safe is placed. Any thoughts?
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Posted: 5/11/2015 9:58:53 PM EDT
[#44]
If you're planning on bolting it, taking it off the pallet is the best option. If you're not planning on bolting it, I would side with your installer. There are several pros to leaving it on the skid, and not very many cons. Bad guys aren't usually running around with pallet jacks, and even if they were, and unbolted safe doesn't take that much to get up into the air.
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Posted: 5/13/2015 5:24:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depending on what part of PA you're in, give Steve's Service a call. He can give you some competitive pricing on the Ft Knox line and can probably help answer any questions you might have regarding installs. If nothing else he can probably point you to a more local dealer. Steve's Service Vienna, VA 22180 703-573-4394 Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This is the BEST advice offered in this thread in my opinion. |
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Posted: 5/16/2015 12:15:52 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Safe arrived. Setting up an install date for some time next week. Question about leaving on pallet. Guy installing suggested leaving it on the pallet since it would be in the basement and on a wood floor. The room it is going in is climate controlled and finished. If I leave it on the pallet, I do have a good friend who has does amazing finishing work. Of course, my concern is rolling a safe out of the basement on a pallet jack into the back of a truck. The installer suggested that moving a 2000 lb plus safe out of my area onto a truck would be much harder and not worth the risk to a typical criminal. He suggested the water risk was greater risk. Furthermore, he added there are ways to make it more difficult to use a pallet jack once the safe is placed. Any thoughts? if its finished around the pallet you wont see it and you wont see an option to get a pallet jack in there. You could possibly still bolt it down if you found bolts long enough to go from the crete, through a block, into the safe. You could also build up a concrete slab in the basement if you are concerned with water. But if you are concerned with water.......why in gods name do you have wood floors in a basement? |
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Posted: 7/18/2015 9:24:25 AM EDT
[#47]
Safe arrived a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to thank everyone in here for the topnotch advice. First the AMSEC BF 7240 safe is amazing. Even my wife was impressed. She liked the .50 cal handles and the smoke on black and the letter styling and appreciated the "strength" of the safe. We were at Gander Mountain the other day where she opened the door of a smaller 2000 dollar Liberty and said, "You made the right the choice."
Let me also said there is no way in hell I would attempt to move this safe into the area I wanted. The guys at RJ Lock and Security in Hagerstown, MD were pros. All the suggestions made were spot on and they maneuvered the safe on a wood floor in a tight corner without damaging my house. I would definitely recommend the AMSEC and if you are in south central PA or central MD I would recommend RJ Lock and Security. If you go with delivery and install you will pay a bit more but the service is outstanding and you will get a lot of quality home security advice on other fronts. |
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Posted: 7/18/2015 11:18:21 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Safe arrived a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to thank everyone in here for the topnotch advice. First the AMSEC BF 7240 safe is amazing. Even my wife was impressed. She liked the .50 cal handles and the smoke on black and the letter styling and appreciated the "strength" of the safe. We were at Gander Mountain the other day where she opened the door of a smaller 2000 dollar Liberty and said, "You made the right the choice." Let me also said there is no way in hell I would attempt to move this safe into the area I wanted. The guys at RJ Lock and Security in Hagerstown, MD were pros. All the suggestions made were spot on and they maneuvered the safe on a wood floor in a tight corner without damaging my house. I would definitely recommend the AMSEC and if you are in south central PA or central MD I would recommend RJ Lock and Security. If you go with delivery and install you will pay a bit more but the service is outstanding and you will get a lot of quality home security advice on other fronts. Great ending in your quest for a safe. Congratulations. |
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