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Shock, you are SO THE MAN!! You are a gentleman, a scholar, a ninja, and a guy to whom I owe several cold ones. If you find yourself in the rolling green hills of Tennessee, hit me up and we'll make it happen.
These diagrams look just perfect. So 2.8 all around, huh...anybody know what a reasonable facial-recognition range is for a 3MP camera with a 2.8mm lens? This project is going to be fun. :) |
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Would this guy benefit from motion detectors, or a driveway alarm?
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You should know the viewing angles that are required first. Simply buying a bunch of camera's may end up being a costly mistake.
Knowing the areas and angles required to be posted will allow you to research the best possible candidates. And may I suggest that you stay away from factory focused lenses or fixed lenses. It will require more effort on your behalf but the picture quality of a variable focal lens will be superior to that of the fixed lens in most cases. |
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Also make sure you have a wiring plan for minimizing destruction of walls inside the house. It will go a very long way into getting wife approval to spend more money on cameras if it doesn't look like shit. The only thing I would add is to look more closely at dome cameras for areas that have enough white light to where you do not need IR. Dome cameras are harder to "move" with a broomstick or rock, they do suck for IR light bleed though.
For your last picture I would think about mounting the camera under one of your stairs leading down facing the windows and door since it would be a hard camera to spot if you weren't next to the back door or window. If you wanted to go uber discrete get a pinhole camera, mount the body under the stairs and paint it brown, drill a small hole in the side of the stair case and mount the lens there. |
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Guys, these are all fantastic ideas, and I really appreciate them. Notes taken!
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Let me look at this later today... Photobucket is choking right now for some unknown reason, and I can't see all the pics (same thing is happening in my camera thread)
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Would be honored to have your insight, Gray! Strange about PB...
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If your garage has house access I'd put one in there too, especially if you ever leave it open.
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I was wondering if sunrise and sunset could be an issue with his camera positions. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Does the front of the house face roughly NE? I was wondering if sunrise and sunset could be an issue with his camera positions. Lighting is one of the most critical pieces of the the "where to place cameras" question. Backlighting in particular can be a real problem, as can scenes where you are trying to delineate very light AND very dark areas (and even WDR only helps so much) |
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Actually, the front of the house faces E/SE - so the garage doors face N/NE.
Great idea about a cam in the garage! That could be quite handy. As far as white light, I've got a 2-lamp motion-detecting fixture at each corner of the house that's on 50% brightness during darkness, going to 100% when motion is detected. I've also got a 100W light between the garage doors and two lights always on at the front door. I can certainly re-aim any of the motion-detecting lights once the cams are in if it will be beneficial. Thanks again, all! |
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I would definitely do a garage cam
ETA: GIMPing a few of your pics... will post them up in a bit |
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OK. Let's start with the overhead view. I think you can get VERY respectable exterior coverage of your home with about five cameras. (marked as red dots below):
Let's start with the driveway: I would definitely start with a camera focused right down that driveway... preferably a vari-focal camera with some zoom. You could mount it right to the 3-4 corner of the house, at the level of the porch, or even a bit higher (to see over a car parked in front of that door). That gives you a straight shot down the driveway, with the sun behind you (shading the camera, but lighting up anything that approaches it). You also might be able to get a plate shot if somebody is backing in (you are in TN, which is a one-plate state). I'd guess that picture was taken 80+ feet or so from the garage? (hard to judge from a pic). so that Hikvision varifocal bullet-cam I reviewed here would give you about 50 pixels-per-foot at an 80-foot distance (on maximum zoom). That's enough to easily cover the width of that driveway, and should enable you to read a plate. Let's move on to the front porch: Your initial idea is a decent one: A camera on that main beam above the door. The same varifocal bullet I just mentioned above would do a good job of looking out toward the end of your second driveway, and ALSO cover the front walk up to the porch (both choke-points). How far out along that beam is determined by whether you can see that entire driveway entrance... you definitely want to cover that. Shock had a good suggestion, which is to put a wide-angle fixed lens (like a 2.8mm) along the right side of that porch, so you can see who is actually standing at your door. The upside of that location is that you can see a person standing there (which is very important). The downside is that a wide-angle cam (unless it's multi-megapixel, and maybe not even then) won't have enough resolution to adequately resolve details on a car pulling into that driveway. This might be a situation to legitimately "get both." (see the last paragraph for an additional suggestion, which goes along with Shock's thoughts) So onto the back porch... this one gets interesting. I assume you have a laundry/utility/garage room on the other side of that wall, and wouldn't mind putting a penetration or two through the brick, yes? (I'm guessing based on the gas meter, and the presence of that dryer vent). I see an opportunity to put a camera right on the wall next to those steps. It would cover that red door (which I assume is a garage door, and would be a popular place for a burglar to make entrance), and a person would literally have to walk RIGHT PAST IT to go up the steps to the deck. Perfect opportunity for a nice face close-up shot, and you could do it with a fixed-lens (like a 2.8mm) dome. I wouldn't put a bullet-cam there: it will stick out too much, and is too easy to vandalize. A nice low-profile dome wouldn't stick out any more than the meter/dryer-vent already do, and would cover that area AND the steps. And now the rest of that porch. Those french doors are another nice, shielded, quiet place for a guy to pry his way into your house, so you'll want to cover those. I also see a brick path that looks like it leads around to that second driveway. A wall-mounted camera to the left of that light should cover that door, much of that porch, and anybody who walks around the house from that second driveway. You should get good pictures of them (maybe even a face shot) as they round that corner. You'll notice there's a fifth dot on that overhead map, right at the front corner (1-4 corner) of your home. That's the fifth camera, to cover those steps from the driveway to the front porch. You should already have pictures of an individual coming up those steps from the driveway cam, but it's never a bad idea to get more than one angle. That camera can be a wide-angle dome, and provide area coverage for the front yard (and also get anybody coming up those steps). I'd start that camera's FOV right at the edge of what the driveway camera covers. You can overlap a hair, but any more than that is probably wasting pixels. Shock has some good suggestions, and I like the way he thinks. The 1-2 corner would be another place you could mount the same front-porch-beam vari-focal camera we talked about above, and get much the same view (perhaps a little less optimal on the front walk, but better for the driveway) as the front-porch beam. However, if you're going to do that, definitely go with Shock's suggestion on the right-side of the front-porch for your front-door cam. You could also put two runs of cable at that 1-2 corner eave, and put a wide-angle camera there to cover the #2 side of the house (which my five-camera-suggestion misses... but you wouldn't need if there aren't any ground-floor-windows/doors on that side). Always consolidate cable runs wherever you can... the fewer holes in your walls/eaves/soffits, the better. |
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Gray, this is absolutely incredible. In the last five minutes you have taught me an incredibly important lesson; the goal of cameras isn't necessarily to see everything that's going on, but to get the clear face shots that is the ENTIRE PURPOSE OF CAMERAS IN THE FIRST PLACE. This is outstanding information and as soon as I pull the trigger on some of those Hikvisions, I'll get right to work.
Would it be correct to say that burglars, though they could approach from any direction they wanted, will generally follow existing pathways? Hence concentrating cameras on places like walkways and driveways. How interesting...I guess it's hard to break habits of "normalcy." I find myself treading a fine line in many areas of life; I try to educate myself on things that are relevant to me as much as I can, and I believe I have somewhat of a duty to do so. On the other hand, there is absolutely no substitute for the expertise and recommendations of experts. Thank you all for taking time to weigh in and save me from some stupid noob mistakes. I will have you all to thank when this whole bad boy is up and running! Thanks again, all. |
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Gray, this is absolutely incredible. In the last five minutes you have taught me an incredibly important lesson; the goal of cameras isn't necessarily to see everything that's going on, but to get the clear face shots that is the ENTIRE PURPOSE OF CAMERAS IN THE FIRST PLACE. This is outstanding information and as soon as I pull the trigger on some of those Hikvisions, I'll get right to work. Would it be correct to say that burglars, though they could approach from any direction they wanted, will generally follow existing pathways? Hence concentrating cameras on places like walkways and driveways. How interesting...I guess it's hard to break habits of "normalcy." I find myself treading a fine line in many areas of life; I try to educate myself on things that are relevant to me as much as I can, and I believe I have somewhat of a duty to do so. On the other hand, there is absolutely no substitute for the expertise and recommendations of experts. Thank you all for taking time to weigh in and save me from some stupid noob mistakes. I will have you all to thank when this whole bad boy is up and running! Thanks again, all. View Quote They want to approach & break in from wherever they can't be seen from the road - so if you have metal patio furniture chances are it is going through your glass french doors. |
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They want to approach & break in from wherever they can't be seen from the road - so if you have metal patio furniture chances are it is going through your glass french doors. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Gray, this is absolutely incredible. In the last five minutes you have taught me an incredibly important lesson; the goal of cameras isn't necessarily to see everything that's going on, but to get the clear face shots that is the ENTIRE PURPOSE OF CAMERAS IN THE FIRST PLACE. This is outstanding information and as soon as I pull the trigger on some of those Hikvisions, I'll get right to work. Would it be correct to say that burglars, though they could approach from any direction they wanted, will generally follow existing pathways? Hence concentrating cameras on places like walkways and driveways. How interesting...I guess it's hard to break habits of "normalcy." I find myself treading a fine line in many areas of life; I try to educate myself on things that are relevant to me as much as I can, and I believe I have somewhat of a duty to do so. On the other hand, there is absolutely no substitute for the expertise and recommendations of experts. Thank you all for taking time to weigh in and save me from some stupid noob mistakes. I will have you all to thank when this whole bad boy is up and running! Thanks again, all. They want to approach & break in from wherever they can't be seen from the road - so if you have metal patio furniture chances are it is going through your glass french doors. Ditto for loose bricks, stone flowerpots, decorative anvils (actually have seen that one), etc. A bit of shatterproof film on those back doors and windows wouldn't be a bad idea, Alternatively, you can have those cameras email you when sensors are triggered, etc. That is one way to get a heads-up that something is happening. Most thieves are lazy, and prefer to drive/walk up via paths, driveways, etc, so it's a good idea to watch standard routes of approach. For instance, an infantry patrol moving from one objective to another may seek to do so undetected, and that is done by avoiding natural routes, or "lines of drift." These are natural paths of "least resistance" that are created by rivers, hills, or other terrain features. When we talk about "choke points," we are usually talking about areas where traffic is channelled by obstacles, terrain, or other features (like easy-to-traverse paths... Eg. Driveways and sidewalks). These are the "lines of drift" on your property. You're taking advantage of human nature, and the inherent laziness of most thieves. ETA: let's face it. If they were smart, diligent, and hard-working, the thieves would be out earning their own sh*t instead of jacking yours. |
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Shatterproof film - absolutely! It's been on my list for quite a while. Any particular recommendations? I see 3M makes some, also no-name stuff on Amazon. Is it idiot-proof enough for me to install myself?
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Shatterproof film - absolutely! It's been on my list for quite a while. Any particular recommendations? I see 3M makes some, also no-name stuff on Amazon. Is it idiot-proof enough for me to install myself? View Quote I've always had mine professionally done. You also need to make sure they do the edge-locking adhesive (Dow Corning 995, or similar)... do NOT let them talk you out of that. |
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Hey all - a final question. I'm ordering the cameras tonight, and I've just been looking at a few 2.8 vs. 4mm examples online, and the 2.8s have me a little spooked - they look fairly fisheyed and like they might make facial ID difficult. Would it be worth giving up a little bit of FOV to get the 4mm instead?
Can't tell you how much I appreciate it. |
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what about ptz cameras? That way you can point and zoom them.
I mounted a couple cameras on wood so I can move them around to evaluate them. In my case the higher mounted cameras do not get a good face view as the person gets closer, the angle shifts to the top of the head. I'm mounting one under the soffit to watch the driveway and one mounted right over the door for a face closeup. Right now I'm using the cheap cameras that came with my system. I think better cameras would be clearer, but still the high angle doesn't give a good face view. |
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PTZ are great, and I'd love to get one, but I'd also like to fly a helicopter to work every day :) Only funds prohibit such grandeur.
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Hey all - a final question. I'm ordering the cameras tonight, and I've just been looking at a few 2.8 vs. 4mm examples online, and the 2.8s have me a little spooked - they look fairly fisheyed and like they might make facial ID difficult. Would it be worth giving up a little bit of FOV to get the 4mm instead? Can't tell you how much I appreciate it. View Quote I like the 2.8's. (I probably wouldn't use a 6mm or 12mm unless you need a lot of zoom.) If you're worried then only order one of each & then see how they look before ordering the rest. You might end up doing half 2.8mm & half 4mm by the time you're done. |
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2.8's are for area coverage (wide-angle). 8mm, 12mm, and higher zoom are to focus on choke points... like gates, sidewalks, front-walks, driveways, gaps in hedges, doors, and so forth. .
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50bmg, I certainly hope you find the answers you are looking for, but I wanted to mention that you may want to look into removing "exif data" from your photos. Google the term to learn more. It stores information about the photos, like what was used to take it and the GPS location it was taken. It's the reason I know you took these pictures with a Droid Razor on the 22nd of last month. You CAN remove it, and make your photos safer to be posting about.
I just felt it fair to inform you, due to the nature of being a part of this board I assume you are interested in keeping that information to yourself. PM me if you'd like some help. |
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Man, thank you, Gadget...I was pretty confident that they weren't GPS tagged, but still, hate to be giving out any more info than need be :) thank you sir!
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Hey all - one more question! As you can see, on both the front and back walls of the house, I'm mounting cameras on walls that also have lights mounted on them, and they're pretty much in the camera's field of view. I know that's a big no-no; is it best to simply aim the cameras away from the wall just far enough to keep the lights out of frame? Or should I try to put up some weird shield to block the light from the camera's view?
Many, many thanks, all. |
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I fried one of my cams by accidentally plugging a 48v power supply for a big POE switch into it! Exciting fireworks display. Unfortunately the hardware store was out of magic smoke so I had to wait for another one, which just arrived. I now have absolutely everything I need (except the two varifocal cams, coming later), so I'm just waiting for my buddy to have time to help me do the install. Hoping for Saturday. Will definitely update with pics! Least I can do for all the help you all have given me.
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