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Posted: 8/23/2014 12:02:30 AM EDT
Hey all - thanks to this fine forum as well as the incalculable amount of resources shared by GrayMan, I'm finally getting some exterior cameras up around the house.

Some context:

1.  Relatively low-crime area.  A bunch of dumb kids rolled a few houses last week and STOLE MY AMERICAN FLAG RIGHT OFF THE POLE (who the hell does that?), and it pissed me off and made me realize how valuable good cameras would be for more serious things.
2.  There's a house directly across the street, but otherwise my house isn't visible from any other houses.
3.  It's a great house, but there's lots and lots of potential points of entry.  Particularly around the back, which is not visible from the street or any houses; around back alone, there's a door into the garage, two garage windows, a window into a bedroom, and another door into the garage.  But that's not all; there's a second-story deck on the back easily accessible by rear stairs that lead to another bedroom door and sunroom door that then leads into the house.  So my money is pretty high that a thief would try to make entry from somewhere in back rather than through the front door in front of God and everybody.
4.  Fortunately the house is well protected, even redundantly I would say, by a monitored alarm.  Future plans include hardening some of the rear access points to slow down any entry.
5.  There are motion-sensing LEDs on every corner of the house.  When it gets dark, they come on half-brightness and when they detect motion, they come on full-brightness for 2 minutes.  There is a very bright motionlight between the garage doors and somewhat crappy ones at the front door; I may just have those stay on all the time.

Here's the place top-down:



The view from the far corner of the righthand driveway:



The view from the lefthand driveway:



So!  I know that everything is a compromise; with camera placement it's a mix of ability to ID vs. ability to see what's happening over a wide area; it's also camera visibility for deterrent vs. staying out of easy reach for vandalism.  But I know there are people here who would know far better than I what should be where.

I'm looking to use 3 MP outdoor cams.

The first one:  how about on the beam the top of the porch ceiling, pushed right back against the house?  Here's a view of the house, and some dumbass's reflection taking the picture:



Here's what my cameraphone saw from where I think the camera could go; the porch roof actually didn't obscure as much as I thought it would; you can still see a good bit of the road and the upper driveway.



Although, would it be better to mount the camera further down the porch ceiling slope?  That could give more visibility to either side.

On the side of the house that faces the righthand driveway (with the garage doors), I thought about maybe again right at the peak of the roofline.  However, if I put it on the far right-hand corner of the soffit, this would be the view (but wider of course):



That would give better visibility toward the street, but it would also be within reach from the deck.  Here's the view back toward the deck from there:



To protect the deck, and a camera if there's one on that far corner - a camera on the soffit pointing down the deck stairs.  This would also give a good view of much of the deck.



Which pretty much leaves the back of the house that's under the deck and the far side of the house; but, there are no doors or windows on the far side, only the HVAC, woodshed, and propane tank.  So I'm not too worried about that.  But under the deck...



And moving further to the right:



so this area clearly needs a camera.  But where?  Those white circles are lights which I'm going to wire to a photocell to come on at night, so I probably need to avoid pointing a camera at those. I have two doors and three windows under the deck, so it's hard to figure out where to put a camera that could get a facial ID as well as give a good area view - or what a good compromise would be.  Any brilliant ideas?

Also, the cameras I'm looking at are available in 2.8mm, 4mm, or 6mm - which of these might be best suited?  I did measure 75' from the front door to the road at the mailbox.  I was thinking perhaps 2.8 for over the front door and either 4 or 6 for the one looking at the driveway and the one pointing down the stairs...and not sure at all about the one under the deck.

So now that I've given you all the virtual road map to how to attack my house, I'd love to get your input :)

This feels like it's been kind of rambling and difficult to follow...would it be helpful if I figured out how to mark the locations I'm thinking about in the pics?

Huge, huge thanks, guys!!

Link Posted: 8/23/2014 1:57:42 AM EDT
[#1]
You want 2.8MM for most of them - otherwise the picture will be too narrow.
You could throw in a couple of 4MM for camera #2 + 3, but anything bigger than that isn't going to work.

Here is one way to do it;


You could probably move #7 somewhere else because the sunroom might block the view.
1= Front door
2 = lawn/driveway
3 = driveway
4 = back deck
5/6 = front & side (I numbered them backwards in the 2nd pic)
7 = rear of house
8 = under deck/rear door







Use white wire & tuck it behind the gutter if you can't get wires from the 1st to the 2nd floor.
Link Posted: 8/23/2014 2:35:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Shock, you are SO THE MAN!!  You are a gentleman, a scholar, a ninja, and a guy to whom I owe several cold ones.  If you find yourself in the rolling green hills of Tennessee, hit me up and we'll make it happen.

These diagrams look just perfect.  So 2.8 all around, huh...anybody know what a reasonable facial-recognition range is for a 3MP camera with a 2.8mm lens?

This project is going to be fun.  :)
Link Posted: 8/23/2014 2:37:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Beautiful place, I'm jealous.
Link Posted: 8/23/2014 3:42:23 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks man!  Not as pretty as your avatar by a long shot :)
Link Posted: 8/24/2014 8:15:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Would this guy benefit from motion detectors, or a driveway alarm?
Link Posted: 8/24/2014 8:35:26 PM EDT
[#6]
You should know the viewing angles that are required first. Simply buying a bunch of camera's may end up being a costly mistake.

Knowing the areas and angles required to be posted will allow you to research the best possible candidates.

And may I suggest that you stay away from factory focused lenses or fixed lenses.

It will require more effort on your behalf but the picture quality of a variable focal lens will be superior to that of the fixed lens in most cases.
Link Posted: 8/24/2014 8:56:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Also make sure you have a wiring plan for minimizing destruction of walls inside the house.  It will go a very long way into getting wife approval to spend more money on cameras if it doesn't look like shit. The only thing I would add is to look more closely at dome cameras for areas that have enough white light to where you do not need IR.  Dome cameras are harder to "move" with a broomstick or rock, they do suck for IR light bleed though.

For your last picture I would think about mounting the camera under one of your stairs  leading down facing the windows and door since it would be a hard camera to spot if you weren't next to the back door or window.  If you wanted to go uber discrete get a pinhole camera, mount the body under the stairs and paint it brown, drill a small hole in the side of the stair case and mount the lens there.
Link Posted: 8/25/2014 11:28:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Guys, these are all fantastic ideas, and I really appreciate them.  Notes taken!
Link Posted: 8/30/2014 5:16:12 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 8/30/2014 2:38:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Would be honored to have your insight, Gray!  Strange about PB...
Link Posted: 8/30/2014 3:00:00 PM EDT
[#11]
If your garage has house access I'd put one in there too, especially if you ever leave it open.
Link Posted: 8/30/2014 4:14:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 8/31/2014 3:14:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Does the front of the house face roughly NE?
View Quote


I was wondering if sunrise and sunset could be an issue with his camera positions.

Link Posted: 8/31/2014 3:25:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 9/1/2014 4:33:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Actually, the front of the house faces E/SE - so the garage doors face N/NE.

Great idea about a cam in the garage!  That could be quite handy.

As far as white light, I've got a 2-lamp motion-detecting fixture at each corner of the house that's on 50% brightness during darkness, going to 100% when motion is detected.  I've also got a 100W light between the garage doors and two lights always on at the front door.  I can certainly re-aim any of the motion-detecting lights once the cams are in if it will be beneficial.

Thanks again, all!
Link Posted: 9/2/2014 4:17:29 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 9/2/2014 5:52:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 9/3/2014 12:59:48 AM EDT
[#18]
Gray, this is absolutely incredible.  In the last five minutes you have taught me an incredibly important lesson; the goal of cameras isn't necessarily to see everything that's going on, but to get the clear face shots that is the ENTIRE PURPOSE OF CAMERAS IN THE FIRST PLACE.  This is outstanding information and as soon as I pull the trigger on some of those Hikvisions, I'll get right to work.

Would it be correct to say that burglars, though they could approach from any direction they wanted, will generally follow existing pathways?  Hence concentrating cameras on places like walkways and driveways.  How interesting...I guess it's hard to break habits of "normalcy."

I find myself treading a fine line in many areas of life; I try to educate myself on things that are relevant to me as much as I can, and I believe I have somewhat of a duty to do so.  On the other hand, there is absolutely no substitute for the expertise and recommendations of experts.  Thank you all for taking time to weigh in and save me from some stupid noob mistakes.  I will have you all to thank when this whole bad boy is up and running!

Thanks again, all.
Link Posted: 9/3/2014 1:40:50 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Gray, this is absolutely incredible.  In the last five minutes you have taught me an incredibly important lesson; the goal of cameras isn't necessarily to see everything that's going on, but to get the clear face shots that is the ENTIRE PURPOSE OF CAMERAS IN THE FIRST PLACE.  This is outstanding information and as soon as I pull the trigger on some of those Hikvisions, I'll get right to work.

Would it be correct to say that burglars, though they could approach from any direction they wanted, will generally follow existing pathways?  Hence concentrating cameras on places like walkways and driveways.  How interesting...I guess it's hard to break habits of "normalcy."

I find myself treading a fine line in many areas of life; I try to educate myself on things that are relevant to me as much as I can, and I believe I have somewhat of a duty to do so.  On the other hand, there is absolutely no substitute for the expertise and recommendations of experts.  Thank you all for taking time to weigh in and save me from some stupid noob mistakes.  I will have you all to thank when this whole bad boy is up and running!

Thanks again, all.
View Quote


They want to approach & break in from wherever they can't be seen from the road - so if you have metal patio furniture chances are it is going through your glass french doors.
Link Posted: 9/3/2014 6:21:19 AM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 3:29:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Shatterproof film - absolutely!  It's been on my list for quite a while.  Any particular recommendations?  I see 3M makes some, also no-name stuff on Amazon.  Is it idiot-proof enough for me to install myself?
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 3:38:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 10/14/2014 6:33:08 PM EDT
[#23]
Hey all - a final question.  I'm ordering the cameras tonight, and I've just been looking at a few 2.8 vs. 4mm examples online, and the 2.8s have me a little spooked - they look fairly fisheyed and like they might make facial ID difficult.  Would it be worth giving up a little bit of FOV to get the 4mm instead?

Can't tell you how much I appreciate it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2014 6:58:42 PM EDT
[#24]
what about ptz cameras? That way you can point and zoom them.



I mounted a couple cameras on wood so I can move them around to evaluate them. In my case the higher mounted cameras do not get a good face view as the person gets closer, the angle shifts to the top of the head.



I'm mounting one under the soffit to watch the driveway and one mounted right over the door for a face closeup.



Right now I'm using the cheap cameras that came with my system. I think better cameras would be clearer, but still the high angle doesn't give a good face view.
Link Posted: 10/14/2014 7:01:21 PM EDT
[#25]
PTZ are great, and I'd love to get one, but I'd also like to fly a helicopter to work every day :)  Only funds prohibit such grandeur.
Link Posted: 10/14/2014 7:40:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Hey all - a final question.  I'm ordering the cameras tonight, and I've just been looking at a few 2.8 vs. 4mm examples online, and the 2.8s have me a little spooked - they look fairly fisheyed and like they might make facial ID difficult.  Would it be worth giving up a little bit of FOV to get the 4mm instead?

Can't tell you how much I appreciate it.
View Quote


I like the 2.8's.
(I probably wouldn't use a 6mm or 12mm unless you need a lot of zoom.)
If you're worried then only order one of each & then see how they look before ordering the rest.
You might end up doing half 2.8mm & half 4mm by the time you're done.
Link Posted: 10/14/2014 7:45:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 10/14/2014 11:43:46 PM EDT
[#28]
50bmg, I certainly hope you find the answers you are looking for, but I wanted to mention that you may want to look into removing "exif data" from your photos. Google the term to learn more. It stores information about the photos, like what was used to take it and the GPS location it was taken. It's the reason I know you took these pictures with a Droid Razor on the 22nd of last month. You CAN remove it, and make your photos safer to be posting about.



I just felt it fair to inform you, due to the nature of being a part of this board I assume you are interested in keeping that information to yourself. PM me if you'd like some help.
Link Posted: 10/15/2014 1:27:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Man, thank you, Gadget...I was pretty confident that they weren't GPS tagged, but still, hate to be giving out any more info than need be :)  thank you sir!
Link Posted: 10/16/2014 10:27:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Hey all - one more question!  As you can see, on both the front and back walls of the house, I'm mounting cameras on walls that also have lights mounted on them, and they're pretty much in the camera's field of view.  I know that's a big no-no; is it best to simply aim the cameras away from the wall just far enough to keep the lights out of frame?  Or should I try to put up some weird shield to block the light from the camera's view?

Many, many thanks, all.
Link Posted: 12/6/2014 10:02:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Any install updates and photos?
Link Posted: 12/9/2014 3:13:47 PM EDT
[#32]
I fried one of my cams by accidentally plugging a 48v power supply for a big POE switch into it!  Exciting fireworks display.  Unfortunately the hardware store was out of magic smoke so I had to wait for another one, which just arrived.  I now have absolutely everything I need (except the two varifocal cams, coming later), so I'm just waiting for my buddy to have time to help me do the install.  Hoping for Saturday.  Will definitely update with pics!  Least I can do for all the help you all have given me.
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