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MO, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2016 5:11:15 PM EDT
[#1]
my local bank branch has a huge massive stainless steel door on the safe... And no bolt work that I can see. Not even on the frame. Are we being conned? The employees tell me they lock it up every night. Most of the doors that lock with a bar instead of bolts are composite. They appear stainless, but they are really a very ugly block of composite material, surrounded by a nice stainless steel cover. These vault doors are far more secure than your typical safe, and their walls/roofs tend to be the weak areas that are attacked. Around here, 12" of highly reinforced concrete is your average for a poured in place vault. It's not that weak. 
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MD, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2016 7:29:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Safes and Vaults are delay devices, nothing more. Given enough time and the right tools, any container can be compromised. Your problem is to decide on how much delay you want or need. There are tools out there that can open any safe in minutes. In the hands of a moderately skilled thief, a TRTL30x6 is an under 5-minute opening. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By Nanjing-Too:
That is a scary tale  ! I see bank branches come and go these day and I have wondered about how secure their vaults are. Fancy looking vault door--but how secure are the walls, roof, etc? I guess that the answer in the above story was "not very"
Safes and Vaults are delay devices, nothing more. Given enough time and the right tools, any container can be compromised. Your problem is to decide on how much delay you want or need. There are tools out there that can open any safe in minutes. In the hands of a moderately skilled thief, a TRTL30x6 is an under 5-minute opening. Dear TSG, I am actually more concerned about fire protection than burglary. If I can bolt the BF6636 in the niche I have in mind, there will be no easy access to the back or sides without removing walls in the house. In my modest house, in my modest neighborhood in suburban DC, I am not really concerned about a group of thieves appearing with drills, cutting wheels, etc. A five mile drive would take these folks to houses worth 5x, 10x, or 20x that of mine. I am certain that the thieves would really find jewelry, and jewelry safes, in some of these houses. I am trying to protect a very modest gun collection, several of which could not be re-purchased under current state law, and a large handful of important papers than cannot be replaced. I am trying to do what is reasonable--and maybe a little bit more to protect these items. Of course, I know that there are no guarantees... |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2016 7:32:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Forgive me for cross-posting here from another thread, but I am seeking expert advice from those more knowledgeable than myself...
Dear a1abdj, What is a fair premium to pay a local dealer? From my internet searches I am thinking that the current MSRP on a BF6636 is about $5689 Dealer #1 told me to go to a local gun shop and pick up a 20% off coupon. They also said that there might be a shipping charge that could be waived if I was flexible with delivery time. That said, I do not have a final price yet so I do not know what might be lurking. They are coming to do a walkthrough on my house tomorrow morning. (Dealer #1 is the one worried about the weight of the BF6636. I have found a Amsec non-dealer that specializes in safe moves who could do the install.) Dealer #2 quoted me a price of $6249--with the ESL10XL and Premium Upgrade option they are asking nearly $6750. They also said that there would be shipping and installation costs that they will not quote me until after a $100 walkthrough. (This dealer expresses no concerns about weight.) I can buy the BF6636 I want online for $4264 including shipping. I was expected to pay some premium over this to use a local dealer--but a $2000 + shipping and installation premium? Seems out of line. I wish I was near St. Louis (grew up in central Illinois) so that I could come in and deal with you Mr. a1abdj. But here I live in suburban DC trying to make it on a normal income. I want to be fair and support a local dealer but I feel like Dealer #2 really only wants to bother with those people who have the big houses overlooking the Potomac. Help me, if you can, to see what is fair here... Nanjing-Too |
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Posted: 9/11/2016 9:12:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By icecold1:
so a tl 30 safe cannot be opened by ul experts in less than 30 min with every / any tool at their disposal, but a moderately skilled thief can open it in 5 min? are you talking lock manipulation or brute force type entry? 
your making me nervous here pete Relax... the key phrase was "There are tools out there that can open any safe in minutes." I didn't say they were sitting on the shelf down at Walmart. An example is the Thermal Lance. Almost nothing can stop that bad boy. If (emphasis on IF) you know how to use that tool, AND know where penetrate, it is a pretty quick job. I think the list of guys with the toys and the skills is really short. |
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Posted: 9/11/2016 9:22:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Plattekill:
TSG, my local bank branch has a huge massive stainless steel door on the safe... And no bolt work that I can see. Not even on the frame. Are we being conned? The employees tell me they lock it up every night. Well, there must be something in that thing to lock it down. I have seen vault doors that were so clean, the locking system sorta disappears. Big thick vaults don't need a lot of fat locking stuff, they rely on the massive barrier. You can almost hold them shut with a hasp and a padlock on the inside. |
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Posted: 9/12/2016 2:19:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: awptickes]
[#6]
Any information on this guy?
The seller doesn't have much information. 
I can probably get it for almost nothing, and add the usual firearms accoutrements to the interior. 60X24X24 ETA: Here's the best picture of the door: 
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Posted: 9/13/2016 4:13:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By awptickes:
Any information on this guy? The seller doesn't have much information. I can probably get it for almost nothing, and add the usual firearms accoutrements to the interior. 60X24X24 That is an early 90's RLT6040. 4 gauge door, 10 gauge body, 1 layer of drywall. No fire rating at that time, and only moderate fire resistance in the design. Great safe for sure. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 9/20/2016 11:56:04 PM EDT
[#8]
See page 87 for complete text originally posted by "kesersoze"
"2) I have a crazy idea: Can I store a flash drive in a vacuum insulated thermos…(inside the UL 350 fire safe)? Sounds like a cool experiment for [someone else's] home oven!" Dear TSG community, I performed Kesersoze's experiment. (Don’t ask, I am divorced, so it is MY oven.) EXPERIMENT: I used this stainless thermos (http://amzn.to/2cl49sC) into which I placed an aluminum key fob (http://amzn.to/2cQbQcE). I had filled one-half of the fob with soy wax with a melting point of 121-125F (http://amzn.to/2d7baPt). Oven and Corning Ware baking dish were heated to 215F for one hour and then the thermos placed inside. After one hour the oven temperature was incrementally raised to 275F over next 45 minutes and remained at that temperature until the end of second hour. Infrared measured the exterior of the thermos as 268F. (This temperature profile was based on TSG's data here from the middle of the safe.) Gas was shut off and oven remained closed except to take periodic temperature readings. At minute 220 (100 minutes after the oven was turned off) the exterior of the thermos was measured as 114F and it was opened to remove the pill fob. The thermos cap was looser (looser--but not loose) than when it went into the oven so had likely loosened some due to differential heating. The pill fob was too hot to hold in in the hand and so was opened using paper towels for protection. The soy wax inside was totally melted indicating that interior of the fob had exceeded 121-125F. CONCLUSION #1: Let's not store our USB drives inside stainless steel thermos bottles and expect them to survive--even inside an AmSec BF safe. CONCLUSION #2: This is why the FIreKing Media Vault 1000 weighs 70 pounds. If they could make a product that worked as well, even if only for a few USB drives, that weighed much less than a pound--I bet that they would do it. Nanjing-Too |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2016 12:21:10 AM EDT
[#9]
Dear TSG Community:
Would anyone like to buy 2 pounds, 15.9 ounces of soy wax with a melting point of 121-125F (http://amzn.to/2d7baPt)? 
My next experiment was going to be to use about 6 ounces of soy wax, melt it, and pour it into the bottom of the 12 ounces thermos. I would then let the wax cool, and put the pill fob with USB drive inside the thermos on top of the solidified wax. I would then repeat the experiment above, using the soy wax as a Phase Change Material (PCM) to keep the inside of the thermos below 125F. (Waxes are used as PCM in various other applications.) Ice is the PCM in our drinks. Drilight, or the water adsorbed to it, is the PCM in our BF safes. (Or "your" BF safes until I get my own. ) It takes a lot of heat to turn ice at 32F into water at 32.1F. I searched around for a wax with just the right melting point--right below 125F. Most candle wax melt at a much high temperature and this soy wax is usually mixed with other higher temperature waxes.
I would have probably proceeded with this experiment had not the first experiment not failed so utterly. Seeing the shot-glass size potion of liquid soy was in the fob made me think that have six ounces of liquid wax inside my oven--even if contained in a thermos was not such a good idea. After all, wax is the "fuel" in our candles. I would feel pretty dumb if I burned the house down doing experiments related to my yet-to-be-purchased firesafe. 
I will be storing my backup drives, and other media, inside a FireKing Media Vault 1000 set inside my BF6636. Anyone wishing to experiment further is welcome to my wax.
Nanjing-Too |
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Posted: 9/21/2016 8:20:07 AM EDT
[#10]
TSG
Do you recommend any vapor barriers or shims underneath a safe when installing in a basement? My basement is climate controlled and the floor is coated with an epoxy paint system. I read some people put hockey pucks underneath each corner and others put marine grade plywood, etc. etc. Any help or guidance would be great. Thanks |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 9/22/2016 9:35:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6SpeedBowtie]
[#11]
I read somewhere in this thread a suggestion to use a horse stall mat purchased from a Tractor Supply (or similar store). I purchased one of these for my new BF7240 safe (which I successfully moved myself over the weekend with the generous help of a couple friends). I would appreciate some feedback on this solution from TSG. I thought about the hockey pucks, but I was worried about trying to line them up under the holes for the bolts.
For those contemplating a move; depending on the destination of the safe, it's really not that difficult if you can find / rent the right tools. Mine went into a garage, so it was admittedly an easy move. |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 9:38:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#12]
IMHO, the best practice for mounting a safe is to leave a small air-gap if possible so the bottom of the safe can always remain dry to avoid corrosion. This is not a matter to be concerned with regarding fire resistance. Granted, a gap is a pry-point for the burglar, but a good anchor job should keep the safe in place. The key thought in my mind is to avoid a moisture retaining interface. Wood, not such a good idea if water may be present, gets wet and stays wet, The stall mat is okay, as long as an accidental flood does not present a moisture problem. Once that water gets in between the safe and the mat, it's likely staying there for a long time. My big safe is in the house on carpet. It's elevated 2" on wood runners front and both side edges. I used a strip of left over carpet scraps on the faces of the riser to make it disappear. Looks nice. If I ever get water there, the safe has to come out for a re-carpet or wood flooring anyway.
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Posted: 9/23/2016 9:57:32 AM EDT
[#13]
Thanks for the info.
I was thinking of using stainless shins in the 0.25-0.50" inch thickness under each bolt hole. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 10/12/2016 4:41:04 PM EDT
[#14]
I am shopping for a vault door for an 8" poured concrete room. I want the strongest door possible before making the concrete wall the weak link. Is the BF vault door @700lbs adequate? It is considerably lighter than competition with similar 1/2" plate steel. What custom additions should I ask my Amsec dealer to quote me?
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Posted: 10/13/2016 9:08:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dsimonl:
I am shopping for a vault door for an 8" poured concrete room. I want the strongest door possible before making the concrete wall the weak link. Is the BF vault door @700lbs adequate? It is considerably lighter than competition with similar 1/2" plate steel. What custom additions should I ask my Amsec dealer to quote me? The BF Vault Door is more like Gunsafe construction. Not a bad choice, but if you really want the "strongest door possible", then you may want to consider an AMVault door. We make custom TL30 construction vault doors for commercial use all the time. Framing is all 1/2" plate, with a full-on TL30 composite door. Not cheap, but one step shy of a bank vault. Your dealer can get you a quote, if you are interested. |
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Posted: 10/15/2016 11:53:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: heeler1]
[#16]
Safeguy I have a question about the lock on my old 2004 Amsec Highland 5517 gun safe.
The other night I could not get into the safe and after numerous tries pounding with a rubber mallet the safe opened. Luckily for me the BF6636 took over main storage duty back in 2009 and the small safe is used primarily now as over flow storage for lesser priced firearms. This lock is a combination lock that in the 2004 Amsec catalog is described as " A 3 wheel combination lock with drill resistant hard plate." After taking the back fire board of the safe off I could clearly see what the problem was. One of the "wheels is slightly off and it is partially blocking the slot that upon you turning the door handle it is keeping the retracting mechanism from coming up into the gap. So with that being said do you think something of this nature is repairable or do you suggest getting another lock? If the answer is another lock what kind? One thing I noticed is the angle iron that operates the top locking bolt is very close to the "three wheels" so I am not sure the larger type II style lock box would fit and besides that this non U.L. rated lock has no relocker so again I am not sure what type of lock other than another 3 wheel model would work. In addition I will say according to the 2004 catalog this little safe came with a ten gauge body and a quarter inch thick plate door and all that for around $369 in 2004 and I don't think I could find another safe with this sort of stoutness at anywhere near that price. At all really. Any help is appreciated. |
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Posted: 10/15/2016 10:38:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heeler1:
Safeguy I have a question about the lock on my old 2004 Amsec Highland 5517 gun safe. The other night I could not get into the safe and after numerous tries pounding with a rubber mallet the safe opened. Luckily for me the BF6636 took over main storage duty back in 2009 and the small safe is used primarily now as over flow storage for lesser priced firearms. This lock is a combination lock that in the 2004 Amsec catalog is described as " A 3 wheel combination lock with drill resistant hard plate." After taking the back fire board of the safe off I could clearly see what the problem was. One of the "wheels is slightly off and it is partially blocking the slot that upon you turning the door handle it is keeping the retracting mechanism from coming up into the gap. So with that being said do you think something of this nature is repairable or do you suggest getting another lock? If the answer is another lock what kind? One thing I noticed is the angle iron that operates the top locking bolt is very close to the "three wheels" so I am not sure the larger type II style lock box would fit and besides that this non U.L. rated lock has no relocker so again I am not sure what type of lock other than another 3 wheel model would work. In addition I will say according to the 2004 catalog this little safe came with a ten gauge body and a quarter inch thick plate door and all that for around $369 in 2004 and I don't think I could find another safe with this sort of stoutness at anywhere near that price. At all really. Any help is appreciated. Well, there is no retrofit path for any other lock type on that vintage of "open-wheel" locking system. Those first-gen import Gunsafes were like that, and that is the native Chinese 3-wheel lock. The best path here is to repair it. Take the lock pack apart, clean it up real good, and re-assemble. I light touch of white grease on the spacer washers is good. When you're all done, you can back-dial the pack so that the wheel gates visibly alighn well with the locking bar tab, and read the numbers from the dial at each stopping point, The new numbers you read should repeat reliably after that, and may not be exactly what was recorded as the factory combo. You can shuffle the wheels to change the combo. Try the new combo several times while observing the gate alignment. If it is lining up consistently, it should be reliable. If the wheels are randomly misalignment, the pack is worn too much to repair. |
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Posted: 10/15/2016 10:43:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Well, there is no retrofit path for any other lock type on that vintage of "open-wheel" locking system. Those first-gen import Gunsafes were like that, and that is the native Chinese 3-wheel lock. The best path here is to repair it. Take the lock pack apart, clean it up real good, and re-assemble. I light touch of white grease on the spacer washers is good. When you're all done, you can back-dial the pack so that the wheel gates visibly alighn well with the locking bar tab, and read the numbers from the dial at each stopping point, The new numbers you read should repeat reliably after that, and may not be exactly what was recorded as the factory combo. You can shuffle the wheels to change the combo. Try the new combo several times while observing the gate alignment. If it is lining up consistently, it should be reliable. If the wheels are randomly misalignment, the pack is worn too much to repair. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By heeler1:
Safeguy I have a question about the lock on my old 2004 Amsec Highland 5517 gun safe. The other night I could not get into the safe and after numerous tries pounding with a rubber mallet the safe opened. Luckily for me the BF6636 took over main storage duty back in 2009 and the small safe is used primarily now as over flow storage for lesser priced firearms. This lock is a combination lock that in the 2004 Amsec catalog is described as " A 3 wheel combination lock with drill resistant hard plate." After taking the back fire board of the safe off I could clearly see what the problem was. One of the "wheels is slightly off and it is partially blocking the slot that upon you turning the door handle it is keeping the retracting mechanism from coming up into the gap. So with that being said do you think something of this nature is repairable or do you suggest getting another lock? If the answer is another lock what kind? One thing I noticed is the angle iron that operates the top locking bolt is very close to the "three wheels" so I am not sure the larger type II style lock box would fit and besides that this non U.L. rated lock has no relocker so again I am not sure what type of lock other than another 3 wheel model would work. In addition I will say according to the 2004 catalog this little safe came with a ten gauge body and a quarter inch thick plate door and all that for around $369 in 2004 and I don't think I could find another safe with this sort of stoutness at anywhere near that price. At all really. Any help is appreciated. Well, there is no retrofit path for any other lock type on that vintage of "open-wheel" locking system. Those first-gen import Gunsafes were like that, and that is the native Chinese 3-wheel lock. The best path here is to repair it. Take the lock pack apart, clean it up real good, and re-assemble. I light touch of white grease on the spacer washers is good. When you're all done, you can back-dial the pack so that the wheel gates visibly alighn well with the locking bar tab, and read the numbers from the dial at each stopping point, The new numbers you read should repeat reliably after that, and may not be exactly what was recorded as the factory combo. You can shuffle the wheels to change the combo. Try the new combo several times while observing the gate alignment. If it is lining up consistently, it should be reliable. If the wheels are randomly misalignment, the pack is worn too much to repair. Thanks. I will give it a go later. After looking at the lock mechanism as well as bolt pattern and surrounding hardware earlier tonight I had a feeling there might be a problem finding a replacement lock. 
Again thanks for your help. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2016 7:07:34 PM EDT
[#19]
I recently installed two S&G 6630 locks in two different Amsec safes I have and noticed one is stiffer spinning the dial and they unlock at different #s. both locks have the same combo and dial ring alignment tool was used for what it's worth.
Lock 1 -Little resistance spinning the dial and appears to have more resistance counter clockwise, dial doesn't appear to bind at all but just hast more resistance than lock # 2. The resistance is constant and nothing appears to be binding just stiffer. Felt fine until I installed # 2 on a different safe. -after you dial combo going back the other direction resistance is felt at 7 and opens at 96 Lock 2 -Dial spins very freely not much resistance. -after combo is enter resistance felt at 97 opens at 86 Any concerns that one dial spins more freely? The third amsec safe I have the dial is stiffer and not as smooth (don't think it's S&G lock maybe big red)as the two 6630 locks Why do the locks open at different #s when the have the same combo and the locks are the sane? |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 11:44:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redwoodm4:
I recently installed two S&G 6630 locks in two different Amsec safes I have and noticed one is stiffer spinning the dial and they unlock at different #s. both locks have the same combo and dial ring alignment tool was used for what it's worth. Lock 1 -Little resistance spinning the dial and appears to have more resistance counter clockwise, dial doesn't appear to bind at all but just hast more resistance than lock # 2. The resistance is constant and nothing appears to be binding just stiffer. Felt fine until I installed # 2 on a different safe. -after you dial combo going back the other direction resistance is felt at 7 and opens at 96 Lock 2 -Dial spins very freely not much resistance. -after combo is enter resistance felt at 97 opens at 86 Any concerns that one dial spins more freely? The third amsec safe I have the dial is stiffer and not as smooth (don't think it's S&G lock maybe big red)as the two 6630 locks Why do the locks open at different #s when the have the same combo and the locks are the sane? There are a number of factors in play that can inhibit the free-spinning feeling everyone seems to like. The two primary issues I would suggest are dial alignment and the tension that was set by the spine point selection. Alignment is an obvious issue anyone can understand. The other, splining, is basically how tight the drive cam is screwed down when it's splined to the spindle. The Dial has a threaded shaft swaged in it, and that is screwed into the Drive Cam that moves the goodies in the lock. The proper spline position matches the orientation of the lock, such that there is one correct selection out of the four spline cuts in the cam. So, you end up having a full revolution of take-up on the shaft. Sometimes the difference between loose and tight is between the 360 degrees of rotation, and you need to chose which you prefer. A loose dial is problematic, because the spline key can rub on the lock case cover and make metal shavings shower in your delicate lock parts. Taking it down that extra turn can make it a bit snug. Not much you can do without more drastic adjustments that I would not recommend for a novice. The first thing to try is to use a rubber mallet on the dial ring to tap it into alignment. There is usually some room to shift the dial a little, and sometimes a tap or two in the right direction will be that small tweak it needs to loosen it up. Look at the gap around perimeter of the dial as it clears the dial ring. The tight point (if there is one) is where you want to tap. Focus the impact on the ring, not the dial, and give it a few light wraps (finesse) . Feel dial turn as you go. if you shift it over until it won't move any more, and it doesn't change the drag, then you're probably splined a bit snug. At that point, you can move on to unscrewing the Cam a turn, but that requires disassembly, and f you're not familiar, you may want to have a safe tech do that job. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2016 12:30:40 AM EDT
[#21]
Sounds like two differently splined dials, and some improper wheel pack torque settings.
Nothing that can't be figured out by a novice, or gleaned from a youtube video or two.
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Posted: 11/2/2016 12:59:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redwoodm4:
Unfortunately I couldn't find any you tube videos on torque adjustment. After a little reading its my understanding it should be between 18-24 inch ounces and after any adjustment the combo should be reset. Will low wheel pack torque effect reliability? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redwoodm4:
Unfortunately I couldn't find any you tube videos on torque adjustment. After a little reading its my understanding it should be between 18-24 inch ounces and after any adjustment the combo should be reset. Will low wheel pack torque effect reliability? The risk is that wheels will not stay in position when you set them as you dial in the wheels one at a time. The wheels in the pack are separated by stationary spacers, so they should not float unless there is a lot of impact or vibration.There is also the problem of over-travel, where a wheel will "coast" past the stopping point if there is too little tension on the wheel pack. The only time this is a real problem is if you speed dial, stopping abruptly at a given number, which is pretty hard to do in reality. We always slow down to hit the right numbers on the dial turn. The dial torque setting is a little misleading. That measures the total torque of the dial turn, and does not exclusively measure the wheel pack torque. There is a tool to measure torque from the back at the Drive Cam. Frankly, the importance of precise wheel tension, IMHO, is way over-valued. For a guy doing manipulation, it makes a difference. For everyday Joe, a wave-washer wheel pack tensioner is perfectly fine. The top-of-the-line S&G locks have adjustable tension, but I challenge you to try the lock at both ends of the tension range a tell the difference in quality of operation.... just my opinion. Lock # 1 ...TSG any dealers or places online you can recommend to get some Palusol tape? We sell the Palusol as a repair part. You would need to buy that thru an authorized dealer. Here are a few part numbers to provide to your dealer: 3665023-09 (52.81" long, BF6030) 3665023-13 (58.81" long, BF6636) 3665023-10 (64.81" long, BF7240) Use the Dealer Locator on our website to find a local re-seller. I can't name-names on the forums. Lock # 2 ...TSG any reason you guys don't drill and tap these holes deeper to accommodate screws that come with S&G locks. This goes back to the late 60's. Our lock mounting plates on B-Rate and C-Rate safes have always been 10 gauge steel. So, it's a legacy that has never changed, because there was never a compelling reason to change it. Our mount plates are one-piece stamped and lanced to facilitate rapid high-volume production. To change to anything heavier would transform the part to a saw-cut, drilled & tapped, welded assembly with multiple parts. You can see that change translates to a significant increase in cost, and hence a factor in competitive product pricing. As import pressure continues to rise, there is very little motivation to make things heavier and more difficult to manufacture when it's not warranted by some significant reasoning. All the locks we install come with the correct screw length, but unfortunately you buy "stock" locks in the private sector that come with longer screws designed to accommodate TL safe mounting with much thicker mounting plates. We have to consider that a very small concern when it's only an inconvenience to a very small aftermarket retrofit arena. There, the honest answer is yours to judge... |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/3/2016 4:15:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jim357]
[#24]
This talk about dial torque brings to mind a question that I have had for some time. I have two Amsec safes, one has an S&G 6730 lock, the other was ordered with an S&G group 2M lock, not sure of the model number of the lock, but I think it is a 6630. Both were factory installed. I note that the 6730 dial spins freely and the 6630 is takes much more force to turn. I removed the back of the 6630 and with the back off, the turning force is the same as with the back on. There are no marks to show any rubbing inside the lock. There is no dial rubbing either. None of my friends have a 2M lock for me to try, so I am not sure if this is normal or if the torque adjustment is too tight. Everything works fine so I decided to leave well enough alone. Is it normal for the 6630 group 2m lock dial to turn much harder than the good old 6730? Thanks, Jim
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Posted: 11/4/2016 11:27:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jim357:
This talk about dial torque brings to mind a question that I have had for some time. I have two Amsec safes, one has an S&G 6730 lock, the other was ordered with an S&G group 2M lock, not sure of the model number of the lock, but I think it is a 6630. Both were factory installed. I note that the 6730 dial spins freely and the 6630 is takes much more force to turn. I removed the back of the 6630 and with the back off, the turning force is the same as with the back on. There are no marks to show any rubbing inside the lock. There is no dial rubbing either. None of my friends have a 2M lock for me to try, so I am not sure if this is normal or if the torque adjustment is too tight. Everything works fine so I decided to leave well enough alone. Is it normal for the 6630 group 2m lock dial to turn much harder than the good old 6730? Thanks, Jim The S&G 2M lock does have added turning resistance with the lever triggering mechanism that rides on the Cam for around 80% of each revolution. So, it won't free-spin like a well used 6730 will. So, it's hard to interpret this when users describe what they feel. If we are talking about a difference, yes that is expected. Is the difference excessive? Without feeling it I could not offer an opinion. One thing I check in these cases is dial end-play. If there is excessive drag because the spline point was a bit tight, then there will be no axial freedom of motion when you push-pull on the dial. I always look for a slight end-play. I have never measured this, but i would estimate that a good range of free end-play would be on the order of 0.010 to 0.020 inches. Anything over 0.030 would be excessive. If you have none at all, then try backing off the dial/cam threading one turn and re-spline. One turn on the spindle threading represents 0.025 inches (5/16-40 thread), so you can see you can go from loose to tight in one turn and never find that sweet spot. If you're going to do this, pay attention to which way the Spline Key flag is pointing, so you put it back properly. Also, if that spline key doesn't require a few good taps from the hammer to install it, then it needs to be replaced. This is a risk you take if you disassemble a Combo lock. Our internal policy is, if you remove it, toss it and use a new one, no exceptions. A loose spline key can result in a number of bad things happening... Again, all this is best executed by an experienced safe tech. I don't recommend anyone doing this without the proper training. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/4/2016 8:16:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Thank you for the information. I checked the end play and there is a bit of end play. I would bet that there is no problem at all. I never felt a group 2M lock and was concerned that the dial turned a bit harder. Not hard to turn, just not as loose as my 20 year old 6730. Thanks again for your help, Jim
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/6/2016 11:26:08 AM EDT
[#27]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/11/2016 2:09:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Hello All,
First I'd like to say that I have really enjoyed this thread and the discussion has been fun to absorb. I particularly would like to thank TSG for your time and effort. I truly appreciate the education. My safe is a CSC1717, built in 2004 (per a call to Amsec) that I rescued from a pasture. I assume it was built in China and "filled" here. It has a replacement S&G combo and needs some TLC and paint. I have not been able to find much information on steel thicknesses, hardplate, etc. It has two very faded stickers stating an UL RSC and an Independent 350 for 1 hour at 1550. From what I've read here, the fill is probably of the nasty variety and that makes this safe worth a little time and money to me. I'd love to know all the specs on this thing, but I understand that there are reasons why this information is not readily available so I will limit my questions to these: I most want to know if I would be doing any damage or disservice to this safe if I finished the welding started in China. The exterior skin is stitch welded, would it hurt to make those continuous? There are 3 plates inside the door, a thin one that appears to cover the concrete fill so that the lock/relocker mounting bracket, hard plate, etc can be mounted, then the hard plate, then the shallow U-shaped lock mounting bracket. The hard plate is held in place with two tack welds, top and bottom. The lock bracket is tacked on the four corners and so is the thinner plate. It seems to me that 4 holes (admittedly very precise) and 4 good whacks and either the thin plate or the bracket can be knocked off the door, relocker included. Can I continuous weld these plates without disturbing the security design and without damaging the fill? To be continued... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/11/2016 2:12:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By txtinker:
To be continued... Also, can I strengthen the live bolt work and the plate reinforcing the dead bolts, which is also simply tack welded in place? The frame that holds the bolt work is also tacked to the filled part of the door. Seems like, it would be fairly easy to break these welds and separate the filled part of the door from the bolt framework. Can I continuous weld these areas too? Welding costs me only the materials, which I already have, and maybe a bottle of Templeton Rye if I want professional help from my brother. I'll spend more in Rustoleum. My final question is about the design of the handle. It is a three spoked aluminum piece and it bolts into the boltwork with an indexed steel shaft. It seems like it would transmit torque to the lock 1:1, without any clutch or "fuse" This seems like a bad idea. Am I missing some part of the design that would break if somebody took a sledge or cheater to the handle? The safe has been outside for years, so if there was a clutch mechanism built into the handle maybe it is frozen. Is there a fuse? Should I make one? I realize that this will never be a TL30, but I have to take a wire wheel to it anyway, would be quite easy to touch up the welds and maybe add some reinforcement to the bolts before I put it back together and paint it. I want to make sure that doing so won't compromise the design in some way I don't understand. Thanks in advance. I greatly appreciate a second opinion, or two. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 11/11/2016 3:32:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: abrace]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By txtinker:
Also, can I strengthen the live bolt work and the plate reinforcing the dead bolts, which is also simply tack welded in place? The frame that holds the bolt work is also tacked to the filled part of the door. Seems like, it would be fairly easy to break these welds and separate the filled part of the door from the bolt framework. Can I continuous weld these areas too? Welding costs me only the materials, which I already have, and maybe a bottle of Templeton Rye if I want professional help from my brother. I'll spend more in Rustoleum. My final question is about the design of the handle. It is a three spoked aluminum piece and it bolts into the boltwork with an indexed steel shaft. It seems like it would transmit torque to the lock 1:1, without any clutch or "fuse" This seems like a bad idea. Am I missing some part of the design that would break if somebody took a sledge or cheater to the handle? The safe has been outside for years, so if there was a clutch mechanism built into the handle maybe it is frozen. Is there a fuse? Should I make one? I realize that this will never be a TL30, but I have to take a wire wheel to it anyway, would be quite easy to touch up the welds and maybe add some reinforcement to the bolts before I put it back together and paint it. I want to make sure that doing so won't compromise the design in some way I don't understand. Thanks in advance. I greatly appreciate a second opinion, or two. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By txtinker:
Originally Posted By txtinker:
To be continued... Also, can I strengthen the live bolt work and the plate reinforcing the dead bolts, which is also simply tack welded in place? The frame that holds the bolt work is also tacked to the filled part of the door. Seems like, it would be fairly easy to break these welds and separate the filled part of the door from the bolt framework. Can I continuous weld these areas too? Welding costs me only the materials, which I already have, and maybe a bottle of Templeton Rye if I want professional help from my brother. I'll spend more in Rustoleum. My final question is about the design of the handle. It is a three spoked aluminum piece and it bolts into the boltwork with an indexed steel shaft. It seems like it would transmit torque to the lock 1:1, without any clutch or "fuse" This seems like a bad idea. Am I missing some part of the design that would break if somebody took a sledge or cheater to the handle? The safe has been outside for years, so if there was a clutch mechanism built into the handle maybe it is frozen. Is there a fuse? Should I make one? I realize that this will never be a TL30, but I have to take a wire wheel to it anyway, would be quite easy to touch up the welds and maybe add some reinforcement to the bolts before I put it back together and paint it. I want to make sure that doing so won't compromise the design in some way I don't understand. Thanks in advance. I greatly appreciate a second opinion, or two. A clutch or 'shear pin' are a couple of methods. Another one is to weld a piece of steel next to the left or right of the bolt (depending on which way the lock is mounted) that is almost touching the bolt when the bolt is extended. Then when the boltwork presses against the bolt because the handle is being turned, the boltwork pushes the bolt against that fixed welded piece of steel. This transfers the pressure to that welded piece of steel instead of the lock body itself. In effect the bolt gets sandwiched between two pieces of steel in that case. One piece of steel is fixed and will never move, the other moves with the boltwork. Of course, your ability to do this depends on how the boltwork is currently done. I am sure Frank or TSG can expand more on other methods. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/11/2016 10:39:29 PM EDT
[#31]
That is an elegant fortification! Exactly the kind of input I was looking for. Thank you!
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MD, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2016 10:49:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Dear Mr. TSG,
I have ordered a BF6636 from Mr. a1abdj. I have specified left side hinges so the order will take awhile. If you would be willing to initial the door on my safe for me, as you have done for some other on this forum, I would be extremely grateful. (That is, if you are not in China or something) I really appreciate the help and information that you and Mr. a1abdj have provided me. I have not had great luck with the private messaging here so I am going to send an email with the order number to your company address. Please let me know if you do not receive it. It probably means that I got your email incorrect.. Thanks Nanjing-Too |
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Posted: 11/19/2016 10:58:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: aklferris]
[#33]
TSG-
I was looking around and noticed Dean Safe has your FV series in a size identical to Liberty's Fatboy, Jr at a similar price point. The FV has two things I like over the Fatboy Jr: external hinges and an easy-out loop on one side. However, I noticed the FV doesn't have UL's RSC rating. Can I ask why not? Are you working on getting it certified? Also, Dean Safe has the body listed as 12ga but the Amsec site has the FV series listed as 11ga. Which is correct? I might visit a local Amsec dealer today and look at one in person, but I don't know if I want to spend $$ on something that isn't at least a UL RSC... decisions decisions. ETA: I did visit a local dealer that was listed on Amsec's website as a gun safe dealer. Their storefront was the size of a large walk in closet and the only rifle safe model they had in stock was I believe one of the TF models. I started asking what costs would be for them to order various models and they quoted me MSRP every time. Delivery was extra. This often meant a price difference vs Dean Safe of over $1,000 + delivery and I wasn't even discussing the higher end BF series... this is why so many people shop online instead of local. What a waste of time.
Anyway, Dean Safe does have that FV6042E5 and the price is right. This must have been a special order b/c this size isn't in the catalog. But, I still wonder would like to know why it doesn't have a RSC rating. |
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Posted: 11/19/2016 12:51:42 PM EDT
[#34]
TSG-
I have two of the underbed safes, one on my side the other on my wife's. Yesterday I tried to open my wife's safe and couldn't make it happen. The battery works, but it never unlocks... So after a few minutes of frustration, I took the keypad off of my safe and plugged it into hers... and it opened using my code! I know it's not a high security device, but isn't that a bit unsecure? A burglar could carry a keypad around and get into any safe with that lock. Is there a way to include a second electronic chip inside the safe that recognizes a new keypad has been installed? |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2016 10:22:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: redwoodm4]
[#35]
TSG or a1abdj,
My bf6030 was purchased last year, and I recently replaced my electronic with mechanical. Does this door need a spindle tube to keep debri out of the lock? |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2016 4:45:08 AM EDT
[#36]
I need a very small safe in the home. It'll be accessed several times a week, and will contain currency and metals, typically $20k-$50k.
1) I'm thinking that an in-floor safe will offer at least as good burglary protection for a given price as a safe bolted to the floor; that it'll have the added benefit of concealment; and that access won't be substantially less convenient since I'd have to get down on my knees for either option. Correct? 2) Every safe place I've contacted within 50 miles says they don't install floor safes, that I need to contact a general contractor. I can do that, but it doesn't seem like a common kind of job for non-specialists. Is this the sort of thing any competent guy should be able to do without trouble, or are there particular skills I should look for or questions I should ask? About how much should I expect to pay? 3) All the floor safes I've seen default to mechanical locks, while most new gun and burglary safes I've seen have electronic locks. Is there some reason why mechanical locks are more appropriate for a floor safe or is this just a coincidence? Flooding maybe? 4) I'm confused by the AMSEC lineup of floor safes. The C3 Star and T425 Major look like the exact same product, except that the C3 door is 1.75" instead of 1"... but somehow they're both 40lb, and the C3 is slightly less expensive? Are there other options I should consider? Inclined to go with AMSEC because of TSG being so damn helpful - and because not too many companies make floor safes and I don't know who else is reputable - but willing to hear alternative suggestions as well. Thanks. |
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Posted: 11/23/2016 11:57:40 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glassaholic:
TSG- I have two of the underbed safes, one on my side the other on my wife's. Yesterday I tried to open my wife's safe and couldn't make it happen. The battery works, but it never unlocks... So after a few minutes of frustration, I took the keypad off of my safe and plugged it into hers... and it opened using my code! I know it's not a high security device, but isn't that a bit unsecure? A burglar could carry a keypad around and get into any safe with that lock. Is there a way to include a second electronic chip inside the safe that recognizes a new keypad has been installed? The codes are stored in the locks, not in the Keypads. That is... well, frankly impossible. You are right, that would be an absurd design flaw, and it's simply not designed that way. The Keypad is no more than a simple input device that provides a variable resistor network that presents a different voltage to an analog input line with each unique button, which is interpreted to be a unique number in the lock's microprocessor. I'm sorry, but the only explanation here is that someone set the code on the Wife's safe to the same code as your lock. |
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Posted: 11/23/2016 12:03:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redwoodm4:
TSG or a1abdj, My bf6030 was purchased last year, and I recently replaced my electronic with mechanical. Does this door need a spindle tube to keep debris out of the lock? The BF safe already does have a spindle tube installed. There may be some debris in the tube, although that is not the norm. It is a good practice to isolate the spindle tube from insulation, it's not absolutely necessary. They build safes like this for a century in various brands without a spindle tube where the spindle hole is not lined. The risk is that the insulation will fragment and make it's way into the lock. The reality is that the drive cam in the lock fits really close to the spindle post, making a reasonably good sealing point to keep the dust and debris out of the lock. Unless you have excessive free end-play in the spindle, there is not much risk of enough contamination in the lock to cause any real issues. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/24/2016 12:01:37 AM EDT
[#39]
Thank you!
Happy Thanksgiving |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2016 6:51:05 PM EDT
[#40]
Mr. TSG -
Can I order an Amsec (CE or CF or CFX) safe with a factory installed S&G 8400 or 8500 series lock? What is the advantage to one of these group 1 locks over the other? Is one of these gourp 1 locks more secure than the other? Can I order the safe without a second lock installed, but have the safe preped for installation of a second lock, i.e. holes drilled ant tapped including the holes in the door? Why in the world would I want to do this, you are thinking. It is because I would like to put a second lock on the safe that is no longer made, but I have a new in the box lock ready to go. Thanks, Jim |
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Posted: 11/26/2016 7:00:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jim357:
Mr. TSG - Can I order an Amsec (CE or CF or CFX) safe with a factory installed S&G 8400 or 8500 series lock? What is the advantage to one of these group 1 locks over the other? Is one of these gourp 1 locks more secure than the other? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jim357:
Mr. TSG - Can I order an Amsec (CE or CF or CFX) safe with a factory installed S&G 8400 or 8500 series lock? What is the advantage to one of these group 1 locks over the other? Is one of these gourp 1 locks more secure than the other? You can order any of those safe models with any lock you like, as long as it meets the minimum Group 2M or Type 1 e-lock requirements.. The 8400 series is the older style where there is a knob in the center of the dial that must be turned to drop the level to open the lock. The 8500 series is a new design with a built in lever drop trigger that fires every time you pass zero. They both come in a metal and Acetyl Polymer wheel for x-ray resistance. I don't recommend the plastic wheel version, it's prone to slippage. Both locks bear the same rating. Both locks have the same manipulation rating. I find the knob operated 8400 lock less user-friendly... but it's user preference. Can I order the safe without a second lock installed, but have the safe prepped for installation of a second lock, i.e. holes drilled ant tapped including the holes in the door? Why in the world would I want to do this, you are thinking. It is because I would like to put a second lock on the safe that is no longer made, but I have a new in the box lock ready to go. Thanks, Jim Every AMVault safe is set up for the Auxiliary Lock, but the assembly hardware is not provided unless you order it separately. The Aux mount platform is already welded in place, and the spindle hole is plugged with a hardened dowel pin in front, backed up with a large 5/8" bolt threaded into the back of the spindle core that is tack welded to the mount plate so it can't be backed out. The front face is finished off so it disappears. All you need to do it grind the bolt tack weld, unscrew the bolt, and then punch the roll pin out the back with a punch from the front. The parts you need come in a kit, which include the Relock components. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/28/2016 6:38:25 PM EDT
[#42]
TSG, any thoughts on this? Thanks.
Quote HistoryI need a very small safe in the home. It'll be accessed several times a week, and will contain currency and metals, typically $20k-$50k. 1) I'm thinking that an in-floor safe will offer at least as good burglary protection for a given price as a safe bolted to the floor; that it'll have the added benefit of concealment; and that access won't be substantially less convenient since I'd have to get down on my knees for either option. Correct? 2) Every safe place I've contacted within 50 miles says they don't install floor safes, that I need to contact a general contractor. I can do that, but it doesn't seem like a common kind of job for non-specialists. Is this the sort of thing any competent guy should be able to do without trouble, or are there particular skills I should look for or questions I should ask? About how much should I expect to pay? 3) All the floor safes I've seen default to mechanical locks, while most new gun and burglary safes I've seen have electronic locks. Is there some reason why mechanical locks are more appropriate for a floor safe or is this just a coincidence? Flooding maybe? 4) I'm confused by the AMSEC lineup of floor safes. The C3 Star and T425 Major look like the exact same product, except that the C3 door is 1.75" instead of 1"... but somehow they're both 40lb, and the C3 is slightly less expensive? Are there other options I should consider? Inclined to go with AMSEC because of TSG being so damn helpful - and because not too many companies make floor safes and I don't know who else is reputable - but willing to hear alternative suggestions as well. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 12/4/2016 5:46:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jim357]
[#43]
Mr. TSG, Regarding my quewtion above:
I was thinking more along the lines of geing able to order the safe with the hole not plugged and the two screw holes in the door for the ring to be drilled and tapped from the factory. What is in the lock installation kit that you spoke of, is it just the screws and a S&G lock back with the relocker wing, or is it the glass relocker? Do you have a part number? My safe dealer has no clue. Thanks, Jim |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 11:27:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fivespot:
I need a very small safe in the home. It'll be accessed several times a week, and will contain currency and metals, typically $20k-$50k. 1) I'm thinking that an in-floor safe will offer at least as good burglary protection for a given price as a safe bolted to the floor; that it'll have the added benefit of concealment; and that access won't be substantially less convenient since I'd have to get down on my knees for either option. Correct? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fivespot:
I need a very small safe in the home. It'll be accessed several times a week, and will contain currency and metals, typically $20k-$50k. 1) I'm thinking that an in-floor safe will offer at least as good burglary protection for a given price as a safe bolted to the floor; that it'll have the added benefit of concealment; and that access won't be substantially less convenient since I'd have to get down on my knees for either option. Correct? Floor safes are an excellent choice and great value, but a dying breed in today's market. They provide natural fire resistance, and present only the door to burglary attacks at a relatively ow cost. It seems that society in general has found that the floor safe is just not convenient enough any more. 2) Every safe place I've contacted within 50 miles says they don't install floor safes, that I need to contact a general contractor. I can do that, but it doesn't seem like a common kind of job for non-specialists. Is this the sort of thing any competent guy should be able to do without trouble, or are there particular skills I should look for or questions I should ask? About how much should I expect to pay? It's a shame that safe retailers are missing out on lucrative installations these days. Some of the smart safe dealers have this figured out, and make far more profit on the installation services than they do the safe sales. Again, many take the easy way out and want to make the sale and be done with it. Anyone that can dig a hole in your foundation and pour concrete can install a floor safe. The safes come with instructions, but basically you want a 4-5 inch concrete shell around the safe body, with the collar flush to the floor surface. Most any contractor can figure this out and do it well. 3) All the floor safes I've seen default to mechanical locks, while most new gun and burglary safes I've seen have electronic locks. Is there some reason why mechanical locks are more appropriate for a floor safe or is this just a coincidence? Flooding maybe? It's a matter of market preferences, nothing more. We shift to electronics where the electronics are the most popular configurations. In floor safes, the e-lock has just not been that popular. Maybe it is because people are concerned with water filing the safe in the event of flooding from fire fighting or natural disaster. That is a real concern. 4) I'm confused by the AMSEC lineup of floor safes. The C3 Star and T425 Major look like the exact same product, except that the C3 door is 1.75" instead of 1"... but somehow they're both 40lb, and the C3 is slightly less expensive? Are there other options I should consider? Technically, the Major and Star doors a very different. Both have the same basic purpose, but there is still differing preferences among Locksmiths for one or the other. AMSEC bought Major Safe in 1987, and ended up with the two best round door safes surviving in the market at the time. We decided to keep making the Major door, mostly because there was a lot of people that preferred it. Expect the Major safe line to be dropped in the coming years, as it is far less popular and sales are fading to unsustainable levels. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 11:31:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jim357:
I was thinking more along the lines of geing able to order the safe with the hole not plugged and the two screw holes in the door for the ring to be drilled and tapped from the factory. What is in the lock installation kit that you spoke of, is it just the screws and a S&G lock back with the relocker wing, or is it the glass relocker? Do you have a part number? My safe dealer has no clue. Thanks, Jim Unfortunately, we can not put a UL TL15/TL30 burglary label on a safe that is not equipped with locks installed with the appropriate ratings. An open hole thru the door would violate the standards requirements. That's the rules, sorry.... I'll look up that part number and report back... |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2016 5:50:20 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Unfortunately, we can not put a UL TL15/TL30 burglary label on a safe that is not equipped with locks installed with the appropriate ratings. An open hole thru the door would violate the standards requirements. That's the rules, sorry.... I'll look up that part number and report back... That makes sense, I should have thought of that. I will order the new safe with two locks and look forward to the part number to add the second lock to my existing safe. Thanks, Jim |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2016 10:07:43 AM EDT
[#47]
It's a shame that safe retailers are missing out on lucrative installations these days. Some of the smart safe dealers have this figured out, and make far more profit on the installation services than they do the safe sales. Again, many take the easy way out and want to make the sale and be done with it. Anyone that can dig a hole in your foundation and pour concrete can install a floor safe. I suspect the problem is that he's in California out by you, and every occupation has to be properly licensed. Those who deal with safes may not want to carry the additional licenses required for those who do other contracting types of work. I seem to recall some receipts sold recently as part of a celebrity's estate. They included receipts for the sale of floor safes as well as installation, both from different companies. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2016 12:17:29 AM EDT
[#48]
TSG,
I appreciate your input (and patience!) over the last 3ish years. Trying to figure out what I needed and how X, Y, Z safes actually compared was probably the most confusing thing I've run into in a very long time. I'm glad to report I'll be buying an AMSEC while understanding WHY I'm buying that safe and the protection offered. Keep up the good work! |
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Posted: 12/13/2016 8:58:54 PM EDT
[#49]
TSG,when you ship out a safe such as a rfx tl30 x6 are there shipping blocks on any of the relocking mechanisms that need to be removed by the installer?
Or are they ready to perform right out of the crate? Also just a idea but when installing the led light kit why not move it out closer to the door,I got very little light out of mine because the stuff on the shelves were blocking all the led's Thanks |
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Posted: 12/15/2016 12:30:25 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By icecold1:
TSG,when you ship out a safe such as a rfx tl30 x6 are there shipping blocks on any of the relocking mechanisms that need to be removed by the installer? If you upgraded to include the Auxiliary Relocker and Glass Plate, there is a jamb-bolt the disables the auxiliary relocker. You simply loosen the bolt, or remove it to release the relocker so it can fire when necessary... |
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