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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:30:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guggep:
Hi TSG - I have a question about the used BF3416 I recently purchased. The safe currently has a high security key lock installed instead of a dial or ESL lock. The owner represented that it was factory installed that way. I desire to replace the Key with an ESL10 to maintain the RSC rating and meet CDOJ requirements. I would purchase the lock new from a reputable AMSEC AD (Dean or West Coast) Are there any issues I should be aware of when attempting a DIY lock replacement Key -> ESL10 Thanks I assume the key lock installed was a S&G 6870, LaGard 2200 or similar. If that's true, then the standard mounting should be preserved and there should be no issue with mounting up any conventional lock. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 9:44:08 AM EDT
[#2]
Frank.... has established credibility and deserves to be respected as a professional in this industry. I wouldn't go that far. 
Okay guys, let's not get too heated here. I'm sure clifton was just trying to help. These topics self correct if someone spews false information. His comments were not blatantly inaccurate, he simply has not established a clear background for credibility. I have a pretty good nose, and something smells funny. He is not acting in a normal fashion. His questions span several topics, so he's not seeking information for some specific situation he's in. He has asked questions that seem too specific for your regular person wanting to know. He has claimed to know little to nothing about safes, yet is now wanting to be active in every thread with an answer. It just doesn't add up. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2014 5:52:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Hi TSG,
I have a question about the BF series - specifically my newly acquired BF3416. Is the fill on the door & body the same stuff? The AMSEC Website lists the door as having: •3½” thick, consisting of ½” plate steel with a unique proprietary fire and burglary resistant material The AMSEC Website lists the body as having: •2-5/8? thick, consisting of 1/8? outer and inner steel plates creating a burglary resistant structure enclosing a unique proprietary fire resistant material. One says fire and burglary resistant material and one says only fire resistant material. The reason for my ask is that I am debating its viability to meet my security need for it as opposed to trading it up for a used CE1814. I may be able to do that cost neutral - trading off security for space Thanks |
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USA
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Posted: 10/7/2014 10:13:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Hey TSG,
First off, thank you for sharing your information on the board. Secondly, what are the cu ft interior specs of the BF7240 AND RF6528? Who is your best dealer in the dc metro area? I'm having trouble finding people who actually stock the BF line. Any new information on the plastic containers hinted at earlier in the thread? Does any lock on the AMSEC safes need to be serviced yearly or every five years to keep their warranty? Thanks again! |
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Posted: 10/8/2014 10:53:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guggep:
Hi TSG, I have a question about the BF series - specifically my newly acquired BF3416. Is the fill on the door & body the same stuff? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guggep:
Hi TSG, I have a question about the BF series - specifically my newly acquired BF3416. Is the fill on the door & body the same stuff? Yes. The AMSEC Website lists the door as having:
•3½” thick, consisting of ½” plate steel with a unique proprietary fire and burglary resistant material The AMSEC Website lists the body as having: •2-5/8? thick, consisting of 1/8? outer and inner steel plates creating a burglary resistant structure enclosing a unique proprietary fire resistant material. One says fire and burglary resistant material and one says only fire resistant material. Let me be clear. The fire fill in the BF Security Safe Line is much like the material used in the BF Gunsafe line. It does NOT present a significant barrier for burglary protection. These materials are design specifically for premium fire resistance. The two mixes designs are quite different. The DryLite Gunsafe fill is a much lower density material that was formulated to keep the safe line within the norms of expected weight classes in the market. The security safe line (smaller safes) are UL Class 350 safes that endure much higher temperatures on the ASTM E119 fire curve, reaching over 1700ºF at 1 hour. The 2-hour BF Gunsafe ETL test is a rapid-rise to 1200ºF at 8 minutes, then held at 1200ºF for the rest of the exposure period. This represents extraordinary performance in the Gunsafe market, surpassing the "real" protection from any other Gunsafe manufacturer's "claims" to go 2-1/2 or more hours. We have tested every significant brand of competing safe along side the BF safe, and proven that the industry is deceiving the consumers with guesswork and ignorance. There is a graph showing some of those results in this thread. I can say with complete confidence that not a single competing brand has met or exceeded their claimed rating in these test conditions (which, in some cases are lower than the claimed exposure levels). In any case, the gunsafes or security safes RSC ratings are nowhere near a UL TL-15 level of burglary resistance. If you are genuinely concerned with security, there is no alternative but to step up to the next level in TL rated composite safes, and other lines with more steel is not an adequate solution. Composites are more than just concrete. It's badass concrete, purpose made to resist burglary attack methods, with various proprietary structural penetration enhancements that I can't specifically detail here. |
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Posted: 10/8/2014 11:38:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Let me be clear. The fire fill in the BF Security Safe Line is much like the material used n the BF Gunsafe line. It does NOT present a significant barrier for burglary protection. These materials are design specifically for premium fire resistance. I know why TSG says this, and he is being honest. But I have a slightly different take. Based on my experience, when a safe is attacked, the odds are good that it is going to be a simple beating/prying attempt. Any safe using a dual wall, with a rigid material in between, is going to hold up better than a single wall safe (same steel thickness) with gypsum board propped up against the inside. Fire fill adds burglary resistance, although not nearly as much as a burglary fill. The easiest way to explain this is a soda can. When empty, it is easy to bend, crush, and tear. When sealed, it is much more resistant to those things. Same thing with safes. |
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DE, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2014 1:37:24 PM EDT
[#7]
TSG, is there any way to approximately compare the fire resistance of safes that were tested to different standards? For instance, is there any sort of conversion factor that would allow you to say that since a safe lasted X minutes in the ETL 1200 degree test, it would likely last about Y minutes in a UL Class 350 test? I'm guessing it's probably not that simple. Do you ever test the same safe on two different fire curves?
Thanks. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/8/2014 3:29:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: clifton]
[#8]
I think I need a disclaimer saying that this question is not answered until TSG answers it.
But UL test are pass or fail. They don't let you know how much you passed by. And gun safe maker's claims are not close to reliable. So you can't even say that two safes with the same fire rating are actually equal. One thing that TSG said in the past was that they need to make sure they don't fail the test, because it is expensive to participate in, so they over-shoot. Then if they pass by a mile, they may or may not want to cost-reduce the product so that it will pass by a smaller margin. But for a low-volume product, the potential savings are dwarfed by the retest cost, so there are some products that remain very over-engineered. So the only way to know how one products compares to another would be to have access to the test data itself (such as time/temp curves) and not the rating. So a company like Amsec who has data on competitor's products would have a very good idea of how they compare, but just by looking at gun safe manufacture's claims - no way. |
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Posted: 10/10/2014 5:14:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj:
I know why TSG says this, and he is being honest. But I have a slightly different take. Based on my experience, when a safe is attacked, the odds are good that it is going to be a simple beating/prying attempt. Any safe using a dual wall, with a rigid material in between, is going to hold up better than a single wall safe (same steel thickness) with gypsum board propped up against the inside. Fire fill adds burglary resistance, although not nearly as much as a burglary fill. The easiest way to explain this is a soda can. When empty, it is easy to bend, crush, and tear. When sealed, it is much more resistant to those things. Same thing with safes. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj:
Let me be clear. The fire fill in the BF Security Safe Line is much like the material used n the BF Gunsafe line. It does NOT present a significant barrier for burglary protection. These materials are design specifically for premium fire resistance. I know why TSG says this, and he is being honest. But I have a slightly different take. Based on my experience, when a safe is attacked, the odds are good that it is going to be a simple beating/prying attempt. Any safe using a dual wall, with a rigid material in between, is going to hold up better than a single wall safe (same steel thickness) with gypsum board propped up against the inside. Fire fill adds burglary resistance, although not nearly as much as a burglary fill. The easiest way to explain this is a soda can. When empty, it is easy to bend, crush, and tear. When sealed, it is much more resistant to those things. Same thing with safes. Frank is correct. There is a considerable increase in "durability" of a dual walled filled barrier, even if the barrier is not real tough. I say these things in un-flattering ways because they are ALWAYS misunderstood as an exaggeration. I am here to share truth and knowledge, not pitch sales. I don't get a commission, and I'm not here in an official capacity. I am taking my personal time to answer questions that I can answer as a courtesy. Sales people tend to over-sell a bit, and someone always takes that too literally and gets mad. |
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Posted: 10/10/2014 5:44:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 123456abcdef:
TSG, is there any way to approximately compare the fire resistance of safes that were tested to different standards? For instance, is there any sort of conversion factor that would allow you to say that since a safe lasted X minutes in the ETL 1200 degree test, it would likely last about Y minutes in a UL Class 350 test? I'm guessing it's probably not that simple. Do you ever test the same safe on two different fire curves? No, there is no cross-reference resource. You're right, it's not simple at all. The two testing methods are very different is many ways, so it's nearly impossible to extrapolate. I have a good idea how an ETL rated safe might do in a UL72 test, but those opinions are not gospel, merely educated estimates based on years of experience testing both ways. One key point is the "soak" period in the UL72 test programs. We have to decide how long the test is going to run before they run it, because the furnace is shut down at that time and the safe is monitored during the cool-down, which we call the soak period. Most of the safes that fail a UL test fail after the burn, during the soak. The reasoning here is that there is great thermal stresses associated to cooling a red-hot safe. That cooling process results is a lot of physical movement due to the contracting materials, which can result in door seal and/or structural breeches. With furnace temperatures well over 1000ºF for as much as 2 hours after the fire is shut off, a breech could allow a radical temperature spike that is judged as a failure. The industry has loosely adopted some ideas of what a real residential fire is like, and our ETL test program is closely shaped around that set of conditions. That program assumes that the fire is extinguished, and there is not a long lasting super-heated environment after the burn. Obviously, that doesn't apply in every case, but nobody with published Gunsafe Fire Ratings has ever made a claim of applying a soak period, so by default it's a quasi-standard. Unfortunately, we have never tested a safe of the same design under both programs, so there is no hard data to confirm or deny the relative merits of the two ratings. |
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Posted: 10/10/2014 11:57:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clifton:One thing that TSG said in the past was that they need to make sure they don't fail the test, because it is expensive to participate in, so they over-shoot. Then if they pass by a mile, they may or may not want to cost-reduce the product so that it will pass by a smaller margin. But for a low-volume product, the potential savings are dwarfed by the retest cost, so there are some products that remain very over-engineered. So the only way to know how one products compares to another would be to have access to the test data itself (such as time/temp curves) and not the rating. So a company like Amsec who has data on competitor's products would have a very good idea of how they compare, but just by looking at gun safe manufacture's claims - no way. We know exactly how many of the competitors safes perform now. We choose not to throw rocks and name names. We choose to merely demonstrate with real data how much better a real fire safe performs head-to-head with ambiguous "factory" ratings or mathematical estimates. We can not compete with importers or mass production lines. If you find value in the better performance, and you are willing to spend a little more for that, then we have succeeded in winning your business. Simple as that. Testing is stupid expensive. We are spending the money for two reasons: One, to make our products better, and two, to establish credibility and stop competing in this 2-decade old pissing match devoid of facts or data, tainted by lots of word smithing pushing fire ratings up higher and higher every year. We can say in good conscience, that our fire ratings are genuine, and not exaggerated or misleading. I can say, not one competing safe line we have tested has met their published fire rating. Not one. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/12/2014 12:45:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Hey, TSG. I was hoping you could answer my questions above?
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_46/401046_Questions_for_AMSEC_TheSafeGuy.html&page=65#i4150202 Thank you! |
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Posted: 10/19/2014 11:10:49 AM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By BattleRifle:
Safeguy, First, thank you very much for sharing all of your experience. I recently ordered a CFX703620. I am very concerned about the exposure of my weapons to hot moist air if there is a fire, I am trying to find a way to protect the weapons from the moisture while still allowing me to easily handle the weapons quickly. One solution is to purchase 6 mil poly tubing that is about 16” in diameter in 500’ rolls. Then I could make a gun bag for each rifle and pistol. Placing a VPI pouch into each bag and heat sealing the bag. The problem is with this is that it makes “playing” with my stuff very inconvenient and somewhat costly. The other solution I’m considering is to manufacture or purchase some type of self-contained cabinet/locker that is waterproof, which can be placed into the safe. What are your thoughts and please discuss each of the options and recommend solutions. Thanks. I have often thought what I might do to address this problem in my own CF AMVault Gunsafe. I have the original RF prototype safe in my home, sporting a camel colored brushed swede leather interior that never made it to production (too expensive). All of my ideas are far too exotic and expensive to make in production, but some are practical. The simplest plan is to build a nice cabinet inside the safe. Using marine grade plywood, you could build an inner case set off to one side. Probably around 54 high x 16 wide and fit to the depth of the safe, so the depth is maximized. It would probably hold 12-14 long guns, which is adequate for my modest collection. The door would need to be fitted so that silicone soft seals completely seal the door, and the mechanism that holds the door closed would have multi-point lugs so the warping of the wood door under steam exposure would not cause any leaks. The door locking system would be the most complex part to make. There are some good ideas found in the liner boxes of UL Class 125 Data Safe interiors. Sealing the wood with a good high-temp polyester varnish, and sealing all the box joints with RTV Silicone sealer would make an air-tight box that would survive temperatures well over 350ºF. |
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Posted: 10/19/2014 11:54:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tron999:
... what are the cu ft interior specs of the BF7240 AND RF6528? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tron999:
... what are the cu ft interior specs of the BF7240 AND RF6528? 26 cu ft and 21 cu ft respectively. Who is your best dealer in the dc metro area? I'm having trouble finding people who actually stock the BF line. Use the Dealer Locator on our website. You'll need to call a few and check. I'm not familiar with our dealers in that area. If you continue to have trouble, send me a PM and I'll have our regional manager in that area help you out. Any new information on the plastic containers hinted at earlier in the thread? Nothing in the plan for the 2015 season. We are buried with new product development projects, and this one didn't make the cut. Does any lock on the AMSEC safes need to be serviced yearly or every five years to keep their warranty? In a residential setting, the safes are not getting used enough to warrant annual maintenance. Five years is a good plan, but probably still more often than really necessary unless you are opening your safe many times every day. We recommend annual maintenance on safes in commercial use, but those are opened 25-100 times every day. Do the math based on your own use. The most important thing to do is watch for a change in behavior. The feel of the boltwork, the responsiveness of the lock, the swing of the door on the hinges... those things will signal time for service pretty well. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 10/19/2014 5:47:06 PM EDT
[#15]
In regards to the sealed waterproof intra-safe cabinet, I found these:
http://www.grainger.com/product/DE-STA-CO-Latch-Clamp-3CXF1?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/3CXF2_AS01?$smthumb$ http://www.grainger.com/product/Latch-Action-Clamp-11A078?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/11A078_AS01?$smthumb$ Perhaps these clamps could be used to hold the door in place. If you have anyplace where I could purchase a cabinet or have some plans for building one, I would be very grateful. I was also considering putting a vacuum check valve on the box so as to apply a slight vacuum to the chamber, thereby helping to seal the door. I think a vacuum could be detrimental to the seals on scopes, so I would use caution here. I could really use some help with the design of the door seal design. Any advise would be appreciated. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 10/19/2014 10:49:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Safeguy,
As I stated, they are in the process of building my CFX703620. I still have a window of opportunity to have AMSEC install an electrical access hole in the safe. If it was your decision, what would you do and why? Thanks!!! |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 12:08:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BattleRifle:
Safeguy, As I stated, they are in the process of building my CFX703620. I still have a window of opportunity to have AMSEC install an electrical access hole in the safe. If it was your decision, what would you do and why? Thanks!!! I would put the electrical access hole in the safe. There is no risk of compromising fire resistance, and it's a real bitch to put a hole in after it's done. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 11:42:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#18]
Took a few shots of a custom safe we are finishing in the shop today. Old School layered solid steel plate safe. Four layers of 1-inch A-36 Plates in the body and door. I'll get some finished shots when it's done. Pretty badass for real... safe weighs over 10,000 lbs!
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:25:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: guggep]
[#19]
Hi TSG,
That looks amazing. I have a smart-ass question. Do you still need to put 1/4 hardplate in front of the lock to make it CDOJ compliant even though you have 4 inches of A36. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 10:08:12 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guggep:
I have a smart-ass question. Do you still need to put 1/4 hardplate in front of the lock to make it CDOJ compliant even though you have 4 inches of A36. HaHa... if this were not already a listed TL15 rated safe, yes, the CalDOJ requirement would still require a hardplate. Rules is Rules... The safe is for an undisclosed customer that will be storing radioactive materials. There will be a few chunks of 1" thick lead panels in some critical areas added in assembly. We had to engineer special custom hinges to carry the massive door, you can swing the door with your pinkie finger. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 12:34:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
HaHa... if this were not already a listed TL15 rated safe, yes, the CalDOJ requirement would still require a hardplate. Rules is Rules... The safe is for an undisclosed customer that will be storing radioactive materials. There will be a few chunks of 1" thick lead panels in some critical areas added in assembly. We had to engineer special custom hinges to carry the massive door, you can swing the door with your pinkie finger. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By guggep:
I have a smart-ass question. Do you still need to put 1/4 hardplate in front of the lock to make it CDOJ compliant even though you have 4 inches of A36. HaHa... if this were not already a listed TL15 rated safe, yes, the CalDOJ requirement would still require a hardplate. Rules is Rules... The safe is for an undisclosed customer that will be storing radioactive materials. There will be a few chunks of 1" thick lead panels in some critical areas added in assembly. We had to engineer special custom hinges to carry the massive door, you can swing the door with your pinkie finger. I'm a safe noob and not currently interested in buying, mainly just lurk this forum to learn about the interesting mechanical side of things. I have a few questions if you can answer them without divulging too much. 1. On a safe like that what is the weight of just the door? 2. How is a hinge like that constructed, some sort of bearings of just a machined fit? |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:55:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fella:
1. On a safe like that what is the weight of just the door? 2. How is a hinge like that constructed, some sort of bearings of just a machined fit? The door weighs around 1500 lbs. The hinges were specially designed to facilitate better welding strength, not so much about the bearing quality or load capacity. The basic hinge guts are the same as we use on our AMVault line, and a pair can carry over 20,000 lbs. They are seriously over-engineered to last a lifetime, and they can be rebuilt with the right tools and parts. The custom version was necessary to assure the welds won't break. On a composite safe, the body can flex with small errors in alignment. With a very rigid body and door, any misalignment stresses the welds which ultimately results in a break. The custom design allowed for better alignment, more weld, a softer bushing to support the radial loads and a special alloy selection for the pins. Engineered commercial hinges are a lot more hi-tech than you might imagine, even though they seem simple. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 10/24/2014 11:39:15 PM EDT
[#23]
OK I gotta ask what is a ballpark on $ for something like the above safe????
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:04:32 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tyromeo55:
OK I gotta ask what is a ballpark on $ for something like the above safe???? I really don't have a clue. This is a commercial account, so the number is probably not for publication, but I would guess the retail value would be somewhere north of $15 grand. We do custom safes like this every day, it's a part of our core business. I just thought this one was particularly interesting... |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:05:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#25]
Copied from another thread... since this is turning into a repository for safe stuff, I thought this was one that should be here.
Just so that I continue to be forthcoming and back up my statements, here is a graph of the Furnace Temperatures from one of our many recent Gunsafe fire tests. Our standard setup places 10 thermocouples all around the furnace space high-low and in various locations. The data is real, and so are the ratings that resulted. The average temperature of these individual probes is what was used to follow the fire exposure profile.
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Posted: 10/26/2014 8:20:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: blkt72]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fella: I'm a safe noob and not currently interested in buying, mainly just lurk this forum to learn about the interesting mechanical side of things. I have a few questions if you can answer them without divulging too much. 1. On a safe like that what is the weight of just the door? 2. How is a hinge like that constructed, some sort of bearings of just a machined fit? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fella: Originally Posted By TheSafeGuy: Originally Posted By guggep: I have a smart-ass question. Do you still need to put 1/4 hardplate in front of the lock to make it CDOJ compliant even though you have 4 inches of A36. HaHa... if this were not already a listed TL15 rated safe, yes, the CalDOJ requirement would still require a hardplate. Rules is Rules... The safe is for an undisclosed customer that will be storing radioactive materials. There will be a few chunks of 1" thick lead panels in some critical areas added in assembly. We had to engineer special custom hinges to carry the massive door, you can swing the door with your pinkie finger. I'm a safe noob and not currently interested in buying, mainly just lurk this forum to learn about the interesting mechanical side of things. I have a few questions if you can answer them without divulging too much. 1. On a safe like that what is the weight of just the door? 2. How is a hinge like that constructed, some sort of bearings of just a machined fit? What UL TL rating would something like that earn based on your professional extrapolation? Thanks! ETA: I own 66 and I'll bet it's Battelle... |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 9:49:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By blkt72:What UL TL rating would something like that earn based on your professional extrapolation? What I think and what the book says would be quite different. This safe technically qualifies for TL-15, and we will be placing that label. With this much steel thickness, it would easily qualify for TL-30. We use all the same boltwork on the TL-15 and the TL-30 everywhere, so the barrier is the question. Since this is not a tested design, there is no way to list this as TL-30. the customer wasn't real concerned with a listing in this case. With a little more cost we could have made it a legitimate TL-30 variant. The judgement of a listing is primarily about the tools allowed, given the huge step up from TL-15 to 30. The radial saw, large sledge hammers and picks, mag-press and the carbide hole-saw make the testing many times more effective. Is quite a distorted scale. TL-30 is so much more than a TL-15 with the added tools. If they used the TL-15 tool complement on a TL-30 today, I would expect a listed TL-30 safe today would go as much as 2 hours.The added tool selections make that much difference. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 6:22:11 PM EDT
[#28]
I didn't realize they allowed different tools for the 2 ratings. Given the TL-15 tool complement, how long do you think that safe would hold up?
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Posted: 10/28/2014 7:36:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By blkt72:
I didn't realize they allowed different tools for the 2 ratings. Given the TL-15 tool complement, how long do you think that safe would hold up? It's hard to say. The approach would foster a host of new techniques. The TL-15 tool complement is so limiting. I could suggest various attack methods that they don't employ today, but this is not the place to share that king of thinking. With current techniques, given the tools allowed, that 4" steel safe could go several hours. That's a lot of steel... |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 8:14:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Here are some shots of the finished safe...
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Posted: 11/1/2014 11:38:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Sexy
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USA
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Posted: 11/2/2014 10:10:28 AM EDT
[#32]
Permanent lifting eyes.... no bolt down provisions.... mechanical lock w/ "spyproof" dial..... Interesting specs... S&G or LG (which is what is looks like from the side shot)?
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Posted: 11/2/2014 1:47:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Col_B:
Permanent lifting eyes.... no bolt down provisions.... mechanical lock w/ "spyproof" dial..... Interesting specs... S&G or LG (which is what is looks like from the side shot)? Just as interesting, there is a 1/2" thick fixed shelf welded inside, and the floor and shelf have tie-down lugs welded in against the walls. On the back of the Boltwork Cover there is a box with two panels of 1" lead inside. S&G 6630 Group 2M lock. |
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Posted: 11/2/2014 2:21:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: Just as interesting, there is a 1/2" thick fixed shelf welded inside, and the floor and shelf have tie-down lugs welded in against the walls. On the back of the Boltwork Cover there is a box with two panels of 1" lead inside. S&G 6630 Group 2M lock. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: Originally Posted By Col_B: Permanent lifting eyes.... no bolt down provisions.... mechanical lock w/ "spyproof" dial..... Interesting specs... S&G or LG (which is what is looks like from the side shot)? Just as interesting, there is a 1/2" thick fixed shelf welded inside, and the floor and shelf have tie-down lugs welded in against the walls. On the back of the Boltwork Cover there is a box with two panels of 1" lead inside. S&G 6630 Group 2M lock. That's cool. |
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Posted: 11/2/2014 5:12:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Neutrons make steel expand. Let's hope they never have a problem finding a locksmith.
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IL, USA
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Posted: 11/4/2014 3:32:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Thank you TSG for your willingness to share, educate, and persevere through the first dozen pages of this thread. I've found this entire thread fascinating as it has informed my view of home safes and American Security. Frank your input is appreciated also.
This thread alone has made arfcom my primary destination for all things firearms. |
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Posted: 11/5/2014 3:49:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Retzam]
[#37]
is there somewhere i can see the door swing size (measurements) of bf7240 vs 7250
also some sites list 26 inch depth and others 28. Is 28 inch with the handle/hardware? |
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Posted: 11/10/2014 9:34:48 PM EDT
[#38]
I think I've decided on a BF6030. Now I just can't decide between sandstone or chocolate brown. These kind of decisions are always the hardest.
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Posted: 11/11/2014 10:15:16 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RaptorFuel:
I think I've decided on a BF6030. Now I just can't decide between sandstone or chocolate brown. These kind of decisions are always the hardest. I viewed a chocolate BF last week. A very nice color for sure. My BF is older and I got the Sandstone. Most people like the color who have viewed it. But that's like less than 5 people and three are direct family members. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2014 11:09:56 PM EDT
[#40]
I am due to shortly to receive an Amsec CFX703620. I am wondering what the maximum weight I can hang on the interior side of the door?
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Posted: 11/14/2014 11:54:38 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RaptorFuel:
I think I've decided on a BF6030. Now I just can't decide between sandstone or chocolate brown. These kind of decisions are always the hardest. The Brown is nice, but the Sandstone is my 2nd favorite after the Granite color. The Sandstone and Granite are colors that tend to look better if you are placing it in the home with other furniture. The Brown is not really a home decor color that matches wood colors well. Just my 2 cents... |
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Posted: 11/14/2014 11:57:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BattleRifle:
I am due to shortly to receive an Amsec CFX703620. I am wondering what the maximum weight I can hang on the interior side of the door? The only concern with loading on the door is safe stability. The hinges will handle 3-4 times the door mass, so you could add a lot of stuff on the door safely, but if that weight gets too large, the safe could get door-heavy, so anchoring the safe is essential if you want to load up the door with heavy items. You don't want the safe to tip when the door is opened 90 º... That's not fun. |
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Posted: 11/14/2014 12:03:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Retzam:
is there somewhere i can see the door swing size (measurements) of bf7240 vs 7250 also some sites list 26 inch depth and others 28. Is 28 inch with the handle/hardware? The safe body is 26 inches deep on this model. If you include the projection of the handle and hinges, that adds 2-3 inches. The door is approximately 5 inches less than the width of the safe, so the door would project about 35 inches on the BF7240, and 45 inches on the BF7240. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 11/14/2014 8:30:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BattleRifle]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
The only concern with loading on the door is safe stability. The hinges will handle 3-4 times the door mass, so you could add a lot of stuff on the door safely, but if that weight gets too large, the safe could get door-heavy, so anchoring the safe is essential if you want to load up the door with heavy items. You don't want the safe to tip when the door is opened 90 º... That's not fun. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By BattleRifle:
I am due to shortly to receive an Amsec CFX703620. I am wondering what the maximum weight I can hang on the interior side of the door? The only concern with loading on the door is safe stability. The hinges will handle 3-4 times the door mass, so you could add a lot of stuff on the door safely, but if that weight gets too large, the safe could get door-heavy, so anchoring the safe is essential if you want to load up the door with heavy items. You don't want the safe to tip when the door is opened 90 º... That's not fun. Yes, this is precisely why I wanted to know. With the door at 90 degrees, what is the approximate maximum weight that can be safely hung on the door of this specific safe? Note: This safe will NOT be anchored to the floor in any way!!! It is a 6 sided TL30 at 4600 pounds with no pre-existing anchor holes. |
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Posted: 11/14/2014 9:08:55 PM EDT
[#45]
Yes, this is precisely why I wanted to know. With the door at 90 degrees, what is the approximate maximum weight that can be safely hung on the door of this specific safe? Note: This safe will NOT be anchored to the floor in any way!!! It is a 6 sided TL30 at 4600 pounds with no pre-existing anchor holes. What are you planning on hanging from the door? I can't think of anything, that somebody may think is a good idea to hang off of a safe door, that would be so heavy that it would cause a tipping problem with this type of safe. |
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Posted: 11/14/2014 10:50:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj: What are you planning on hanging from the door? I can't think of anything, that somebody may think is a good idea to hang off of a safe door, that would be so heavy that it would cause a tipping problem with this type of safe. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj: Yes, this is precisely why I wanted to know. With the door at 90 degrees, what is the approximate maximum weight that can be safely hung on the door of this specific safe? Note: This safe will NOT be anchored to the floor in any way!!! It is a 6 sided TL30 at 4600 pounds with no pre-existing anchor holes. What are you planning on hanging from the door? I can't think of anything, that somebody may think is a good idea to hang off of a safe door, that would be so heavy that it would cause a tipping problem with this type of safe.  |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 11/15/2014 12:58:34 AM EDT
[#47]
Yea, I know it may not seem to be a problem. I have my reasons that I would rather not divulge and would really appreciate an honest try at a serious answer.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 1:03:08 AM EDT
[#48]
There is nothing that you're going to physically be capable of lifting, that would cause that safe to tip by hanging it from the door. If you need a hoist, forklift, or crane to move into position, common sense says it's too heavy.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 1:17:21 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BattleRifle: Yea, I know it may not seem to be a problem. I have my reasons that I would rather not divulge and would really appreciate an honest try at a serious answer. My apologies. I wasn't being serious. I really do know a 400lb baby elephant does not weigh enough to tip over a TL30 rated safe. An adult elephant would be a different story though because they weigh tons. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 11/15/2014 1:50:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BattleRifle]
[#50]
OK, I had to dust off my physics book and made a couple of assumptions, such as the weight of the door but perhaps it would take about 1000 lbs. I don't plan on hanging anything near that weight, but I am the type of person that likes to know the complete envelope of parameters of all things that I own and use. Knowledge is power, even though it may be seemingly esoteric at the time. When you're dealing with a massive object that could kill you if it tipped, it just might be a good idea to be educated and use NIST scientific units instead of elephants or unimaginative idiots as a unit of mass.
I have really gained a ton of knowledge from AMSEC the safe guy. I think we really owe him a lot for sharing fantastic information with us. |
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