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Seriously... you don't have to go hard-core on the memory, or on a fancy graphics card.
You really only need a handful of things: 1. Decent multi-core (4+) processor (i-5 or better would probably be my recommendation... my older Core2Quad was recycled from another box) 2. High-quality network card (Intel Pro/1000 or similar, on a PCI-E card, with a decent heat-sink) 3. Good/big hard-drives (the WD purples/reds would be my recommendation) 4. High-quality power supply 5. Case with externally-removable drive bays Built-in graphics on the MB is fine. Standard amount of memory is fine. |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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Just noticed the 850 Pro SSD. Dont waste your money on that. An NVR doesn't need that much of a drive to just run an OS and some software.
Originally Posted By gaspain:
my point is.....DDR 4 has been cheaper than 3 recently and is twice as fast. View Quote Price difference of a few dollars. Not enough to matter. Definitely not enough to change up a bunch of stuff just to get DDR4. Speed difference. Doesn't matter. Will have 0% impact on performance. This isn't a powerhouse machine. It's just sitting there recording video streams. |
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Originally Posted By ss2nv:
It's only $117 though. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ss2nv:
Originally Posted By beavo451:
Just noticed the 850 Pro SSD. Dont waste your money on that. An NVR doesn't need that much of a drive to just run an OS and some software. It's only $117 though. Better spent on Intel for power efficiency. Hell, a 250gb hard drive could be had for $20-$30. |
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Get a 128GB SSD for about forty bucks, and make that your system drive.
Buy huge regular drives for data/video drives, and put them in removable caddies for easy change-out (when they inevitably fail.) |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Seriously... you don't have to go hard-core on the memory, or on a fancy graphics card. You really only need a handful of things: 1. Decent multi-core (4+) processor (i-5 or better would probably be my recommendation... my older Core2Quad was recycled from another box) 2. High-quality network card (Intel Pro/1000 or similar, on a PCI-E card, with a decent heat-sink) 3. Good/big hard-drives (the WD purples/reds would be my recommendation) 4. High-quality power supply 5. Case with externally-removable drive bays Built-in graphics on the MB is fine. Standard amount of memory is fine. View Quote 1. The proc that I listed is an 8 core 4 GHz piece, so it should be up to the task, no? 2. My switch that I have on order has two 1 Gbps SFP uplink ports. Do you think that it would be worth it to grab an SFP NIC instead of a normal gigabit NIC? 3. I already have two 4 TB WD NV Purples sitting here. I was going to put them in a RAID 1, thinking maybe later getting two more and putting them all in a RAID 5. 4. The PS is a 760W 80+ platinum certified unit. 5. The case is just a standard full tower with good airflow. I guess I might have to look into something else for this application, though. Also, I was planning on using a GTX 470 Fermi card that I already have for the graphics, so that part should be covered already. |
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Originally Posted By ss2nv:
1. The proc that I listed is an 8 core 4 GHz piece, so it should be up to the task, no? 2. My switch that I have on order has two 1 Gbps SFP uplink ports. Do you think that it would be worth it to grab an SFP NIC instead of a normal gigabit NIC? 3. I already have two 4 TB WD NV Purples sitting here. I was going to put them in a RAID 1, thinking maybe later getting two more and putting them all in a RAID 5. 4. The PS is a 760W 80+ platinum certified unit. 5. The case is just a standard full tower with good airflow. I guess I might have to look into something else for this application, though. Also, I was planning on using a GTX 470 Fermi card that I already have for the graphics, so that part should be covered already. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ss2nv:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Seriously... you don't have to go hard-core on the memory, or on a fancy graphics card. You really only need a handful of things: 1. Decent multi-core (4+) processor (i-5 or better would probably be my recommendation... my older Core2Quad was recycled from another box) 2. High-quality network card (Intel Pro/1000 or similar, on a PCI-E card, with a decent heat-sink) 3. Good/big hard-drives (the WD purples/reds would be my recommendation) 4. High-quality power supply 5. Case with externally-removable drive bays Built-in graphics on the MB is fine. Standard amount of memory is fine. 1. The proc that I listed is an 8 core 4 GHz piece, so it should be up to the task, no? 2. My switch that I have on order has two 1 Gbps SFP uplink ports. Do you think that it would be worth it to grab an SFP NIC instead of a normal gigabit NIC? 3. I already have two 4 TB WD NV Purples sitting here. I was going to put them in a RAID 1, thinking maybe later getting two more and putting them all in a RAID 5. 4. The PS is a 760W 80+ platinum certified unit. 5. The case is just a standard full tower with good airflow. I guess I might have to look into something else for this application, though. Also, I was planning on using a GTX 470 Fermi card that I already have for the graphics, so that part should be covered already. Your processor is fine. Don't worry about SFP ports. Not going to make a difference. |
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Hey guys, I've followed these threads for several years now and I appreciate the work that has been put into them. Thank you.
Its time to upgrade our existing camera system at one of our business locations and I was looking for some guidance. Requirements: 8 cameras minimum great IR performance cold weather capable recording and playback should be at camera native resolution 30 days+/- storage HDMI output DIY install nice to haves: variable zoom (not PTZ) sound RJ-45/Cat6 interface Here is some examples of what I was looking at. DVR: http://overseas.hikvision.com/us/Products_accessries_10649_i8679.html cameras: http://overseas.hikvision.com/us/Products_accessries_10513_i7658.html google map view with ms paint: https://goo.gl/LDQ8PS I'd like 360 degrees of coverage with special attention to the alley behind (south or bottom of the pic) the building. This is where the thieves like to park when they steal from us. I'm thinking $2500-$3500 for total budget. Also looking for suggestions for an online vendor unless Amazon is the way to go. |
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Stop whining, run for office & change it yourself!
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View Quote nothing special late model PC, with a fast intel i5 or i7 $500 4tb WD RED or PURPLE working drive and a 2nd one for raid parity $150ea 8-10 port POE 10/1000 switch, TP link or whatever $100 ispy software free, or blue iris $50 Roll of cat6, and connectors price depends latest model Hikvision, 3mp or greater with H264 or h265. $100-$200ea IR illuminators optional zoom is going to cost you... also a DIY poe system is not for beginners, you need to understand networking and static IP management also be aware that the 6mp cameras you chose will eat a computers CPU if recording the full rez stream and a fast PC can only handle a few of them at once. |
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Looking at doing between 4-6 poe cameras.
Need to figure a few things out, would rather buy an assembled ready to run setup than piece one together. Putting one together sounds like it would be a more sustainable or long term serviceable solution but I am not looking to build a system. This is the setup that holds my interest at the moment. http://m.homedepot.com/p/Security-Labs-8CH-High-Definition-1080P-IP-POE-NVR-Surveillance-System-with-3TB-Hard-Drive-8-Cameras-19-in-LED-HD-Monitor-and-Apps-SLM7026/206701340 I am curious if there are any known pitfalls to it or better comparable systems that I could go with. Also, I have two runs of network cable going out to my detached garage, one CAT6 and one CAT5e. I have my computer on wired network out there for internet and the other cable run was for future expansion going from the garage to the house attic. Is it possible to put a bunch of cameras on a POE switch for the front of the house then have them all run through the CAT6 cable to the garage where it would be picked up and controlled by the DVR? Basically I would like to get the DVR/monitor in the garage where I can secure it better from a smash and grab but I dont have enough cables ran to get each camera on the house it's own dedicated run to the garage to connect to the DVR. I do have a tech savy friend who could help build a system from scratch but I am trying to get up to speed a bit on understanding the capabilities of switches and POE. And being able to bring such mods to an existing commercial setup. |
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Stop whining, run for office & change it yourself!
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you can run your cams to a poe 10/1000 switch
the cams can be cat5e, but the "backhaul" frome the switch to the PC should be cat6 or cat7 gigabit. The PC needs to have gigabit lan. Most DVR's do not have gigabit lan and will not work. On a single 10/100 cat5e cable, yoou have enought bandwidth for one or two 2mp cams. on a single 10/1000 gigabit cable, you can fit 10 of them. *estimated so yea, get a Tplink 10/1000 gigabit poe switch and set that centrally located in your house. then run cat5e or cat6 to your cams and runa cat6 or 7 to the garage where you have a PC with gigabit ethernet running ispy connect or Blue iris. Set your cams with static IP's: such as 192.168.1.200 then the next is 201 then 202 and so on. also, about your homedepot link. Never heard of that brand. And DVR's are easier, however less reliable and record at lower resolution than a PC can. So even if you buy nice 6mp cam's with 3072 × 2048 resolution, the DVR will only record it at 1080p/720p. A PC with gigabit ethernet can. It will use 15-20% of the processor for each cam at full rez on the newest Intel i5 at full 3072 × 2048. and one caveat, if any of that lingo above doesn't make sense....don't bother with a DIY system. Have a pro install it. |
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Originally Posted By gaspain:
you can run your cams to a poe 10/1000 switch the cams can be cat5e, but the "backhaul" frome the switch to the PC should be cat6 or cat7 gigabit. The PC needs to have gigabit lan. Most DVR's do not have gigabit lan and will not work. On a single 10/100 cat5e cable, yoou have enought bandwidth for one or two 2mp cams. on a single 10/1000 gigabit cable, you can fit 10 of them. *estimated so yea, get a Tplink 10/1000 gigabit poe switch and set that centrally located in your house. then run cat5e or cat6 to your cams and runa cat6 or 7 to the garage where you have a PC with gigabit ethernet running ispy connect or Blue iris. Set your cams with static IP's: such as 192.168.1.200 then the next is 201 then 202 and so on. View Quote Thanks for the heads up on bandwidth concerns. I knew that was a potential issue. Didnt know if 4 cameras was too much to run but it sounds like it is. The conduit/run to the garage was hellacious to get what is out there, about 40 feet down an exterior wall, under ground through the conduit, and back up to the attic/rafters of the garage. It sounds like I may just use the existing garage cable for a POE camera and run it to the house where the centrally located switch will be. Then I can hide the NVR some place secure and maybe use the living room or bedroom TV as the monitor. |
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Stop whining, run for office & change it yourself!
USA
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Originally Posted By uglygun: Thanks for the heads up on bandwidth concerns. I knew that was a potential issue. Didnt know if 4 cameras was too much to run but it sounds like it is. The conduit/run to the garage was hellacious to get what is out there, about 40 feet down an exterior wall, under ground through the conduit, and back up to the attic/rafters of the garage. It sounds like I may just use the existing garage cable for a POE camera and run it to the house where the centrally located switch will be. Then I can hide the NVR some place secure and maybe use the living room or bedroom TV as the monitor. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By uglygun: Originally Posted By gaspain: you can run your cams to a poe 10/1000 switch the cams can be cat5e, but the "backhaul" frome the switch to the PC should be cat6 or cat7 gigabit. The PC needs to have gigabit lan. Most DVR's do not have gigabit lan and will not work. On a single 10/100 cat5e cable, yoou have enought bandwidth for one or two 2mp cams. on a single 10/1000 gigabit cable, you can fit 10 of them. *estimated so yea, get a Tplink 10/1000 gigabit poe switch and set that centrally located in your house. then run cat5e or cat6 to your cams and runa cat6 or 7 to the garage where you have a PC with gigabit ethernet running ispy connect or Blue iris. Set your cams with static IP's: such as 192.168.1.200 then the next is 201 then 202 and so on. Thanks for the heads up on bandwidth concerns. I knew that was a potential issue. Didnt know if 4 cameras was too much to run but it sounds like it is. The conduit/run to the garage was hellacious to get what is out there, about 40 feet down an exterior wall, under ground through the conduit, and back up to the attic/rafters of the garage. It sounds like I may just use the existing garage cable for a POE camera and run it to the house where the centrally located switch will be. Then I can hide the NVR some place secure and maybe use the living room or bedroom TV as the monitor. |
Check out my blog at kiloOhm.com | © Gaspain
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Kind of a no-name brand of cameras... that's likely somebody else's stuff rebranded. That happens quite a bit with Hikvision, Dahua, and other OEMs.
Costco still carries the rebranded Hikvision stuff Link Some of the newer Swann stuff at Sams Club is no longer Hikvision OEM. Not sure who makes it. |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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Originally Posted By gaspain:
and one caveat, if any of that lingo above doesn't make sense....don't bother with a DIY system. Have a pro install it. View Quote Lmao. Yeah. I am about 80% confidence on all of that. I do play with CMOS cameras and some of the gear thanks to being into FPV gear for RC flight. Years ago a buddy and I built up my gaming PC but that was 2005. I have no doubt that with his help we could build a stand alone CPU recorder. What you just described with DVR limitations versus the CPU/built tower abilities is important to me. I would rather have 4 high quality cameras than have 6 lower quality cameras. I work in LE and have seen the limitations of pixelated digital cameras on play back. I would like basically 2 cameras for the front of the house on overlapping fields of view, one at the doorway facing out, and one back at my garage that can catch anybody on the side of the house. The front overlapping cameras I would love to be clear enough to grab plates of passing cars. I am on a corner lot and people going past my house have to make a turn that would expose the plates. Could be useful for tracking down vehicles that got used in thefts in neighborhood. One neighbor picked up a guy breaking into vehicles just a week or two ago. But given the guy walked up to the house, and it was dark, nothing other than a grainy image of a white guy was caught. |
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Originally Posted By uglygun:
Lmao. Yeah. I am about 80% confidence on all of that. I do play with CMOS cameras and some of the gear thanks to being into FPV gear for RC flight. Years ago a buddy and I built up my gaming PC but that was 2005. I have no doubt that with his help we could build a stand alone CPU recorder. What you just described with DVR limitations versus the CPU/built tower abilities is important to me. I would rather have 4 high quality cameras than have 6 lower quality cameras. I work in LE and have seen the limitations of pixelated digital cameras on play back. I would like basically 2 cameras for the front of the house on overlapping fields of view, one at the doorway facing out, and one back at my garage that can catch anybody on the side of the house. The front overlapping cameras I would love to be clear enough to grab plates of passing cars. I am on a corner lot and people going past my house have to make a turn that would expose the plates. Could be useful for tracking down vehicles that got used in thefts in neighborhood. One neighbor picked up a guy breaking into vehicles just a week or two ago. But given the guy walked up to the house, and it was dark, nothing other than a grainy image of a white guy was caught. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By uglygun:
Originally Posted By gaspain:
and one caveat, if any of that lingo above doesn't make sense....don't bother with a DIY system. Have a pro install it. Lmao. Yeah. I am about 80% confidence on all of that. I do play with CMOS cameras and some of the gear thanks to being into FPV gear for RC flight. Years ago a buddy and I built up my gaming PC but that was 2005. I have no doubt that with his help we could build a stand alone CPU recorder. What you just described with DVR limitations versus the CPU/built tower abilities is important to me. I would rather have 4 high quality cameras than have 6 lower quality cameras. I work in LE and have seen the limitations of pixelated digital cameras on play back. I would like basically 2 cameras for the front of the house on overlapping fields of view, one at the doorway facing out, and one back at my garage that can catch anybody on the side of the house. The front overlapping cameras I would love to be clear enough to grab plates of passing cars. I am on a corner lot and people going past my house have to make a turn that would expose the plates. Could be useful for tracking down vehicles that got used in thefts in neighborhood. One neighbor picked up a guy breaking into vehicles just a week or two ago. But given the guy walked up to the house, and it was dark, nothing other than a grainy image of a white guy was caught. Getting plates legibly and reliably is absolutely the most difficult camera challenge I've encountered so far. Get the right camera and some long lenses, and you'll be OK during the day. Night-time will be a sh*t-show without the right filters, shutter speed, and powerful IR illuminators. And as far as IR illuminators, the cheapo Ebay stuff won't cut it. |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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Yeah.
Been there seen the results. The only saving grace is there is a street light they have to pass under so there is some full illumination. But I dont know if there is a way to get wide dynamic range out a camera that steps into night mode. Having seen the difference between daylight and low light on my CMOS style 600-720 stuff for FPV, the blown out grainy shit may just be the limitation I have to deal with. But daylight plate grabs should be possible. |
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Stop whining, run for office & change it yourself!
USA
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nevermind
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Check out my blog at kiloOhm.com | © Gaspain
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Originally Posted By uglygun:
Yeah. Been there seen the results. The only saving grace is there is a street light they have to pass under so there is some full illumination. But I dont know if there is a way to get wide dynamic range out a camera that steps into night mode. Having seen the difference between daylight and low light on my CMOS style 600-720 stuff for FPV, the blown out grainy shit may just be the limitation I have to deal with. But daylight plate grabs should be possible. View Quote Yeah... daylight plates are relatively easy. The problem with plates at night is that they're surrounded by BRIGHT lights (tail and head-lights). Even a WDR camera can't adjust quick enough... so you end up having to use filters (LPR, or long-pass filters) to cut out almost all of the visible light. Then you have to have short exposure times (fast shutter speed) to prevent the moving target from blurring. THEN you need hard-core IR light to illuminate that reflective plate... it takes that extra IR (not blocked by your LPR filter) to get the plate to "pop" in the video. Often you have to use an IR source rated for THREE TIMES the distance you're trying to catch. So if the plate is 45 feet away, you have to use an IR source rated for 150 feet (or thereabouts). These tend to be spot-type sources, with narrow beams, and high power. You have to aim those IR sources too. Not easy to get plates consistently. Doing it with cheap cameras/equipment is almost impossible. |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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Originally Posted By gaspain:
you can run your cams to a poe 10/1000 switch the cams can be cat5e, but the "backhaul" frome the switch to the PC should be cat6 or cat7 gigabit. The PC needs to have gigabit lan. Most DVR's do not have gigabit lan and will not work. On a single 10/100 cat5e cable, yoou have enought bandwidth for one or two 2mp cams. on a single 10/1000 gigabit cable, you can fit 10 of them. *estimated so yea, get a Tplink 10/1000 gigabit poe switch and set that centrally located in your house. then run cat5e or cat6 to your cams and runa cat6 or 7 to the garage where you have a PC with gigabit ethernet running ispy connect or Blue iris. Set your cams with static IP's: such as 192.168.1.200 then the next is 201 then 202 and so on. also, about your homedepot link. Never heard of that brand. And DVR's are easier, however less reliable and record at lower resolution than a PC can. So even if you buy nice 6mp cam's with 3072 × 2048 resolution, the DVR will only record it at 1080p/720p. A PC with gigabit ethernet can. It will use 15-20% of the processor for each cam at full rez on the newest Intel i5 at full 3072 × 2048. and one caveat, if any of that lingo above doesn't make sense....don't bother with a DIY system. Have a pro install it. View Quote Wow you are grossly overstating how much bandwidth IP cameras use. Firstly, Cat5e is rated for gigabit. Secondly, the streaming bit rate can normally be set in the camera. A 1080p camera with a bit rate of 4 Mbps is plenty. That's more than 20 streams on Fast Ethernet or more than 200 on gigabit. Thirdly, there are no such things as 10/1000 switches. There are 10/100 and 10/100/1000. |
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Stop whining, run for office & change it yourself!
USA
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Originally Posted By beavo451: Wow you are grossly overstating how much bandwidth IP cameras use. Firstly, Cat5e is rated for gigabit. Secondly, the streaming bit rate can normally be set in the camera. A 1080p camera with a bit rate of 4 Mbps is plenty. That's more than 20 streams on Fast Ethernet or more than 200 on gigabit. Thirdly, there are no such things as 10/1000 switches. There are 10/100 and 10/100/1000. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By beavo451: Originally Posted By gaspain: you can run your cams to a poe 10/1000 switch the cams can be cat5e, but the "backhaul" frome the switch to the PC should be cat6 or cat7 gigabit. The PC needs to have gigabit lan. Most DVR's do not have gigabit lan and will not work. On a single 10/100 cat5e cable, yoou have enought bandwidth for one or two 2mp cams. on a single 10/1000 gigabit cable, you can fit 10 of them. *estimated so yea, get a Tplink 10/1000 gigabit poe switch and set that centrally located in your house. then run cat5e or cat6 to your cams and runa cat6 or 7 to the garage where you have a PC with gigabit ethernet running ispy connect or Blue iris. Set your cams with static IP's: such as 192.168.1.200 then the next is 201 then 202 and so on. also, about your homedepot link. Never heard of that brand. And DVR's are easier, however less reliable and record at lower resolution than a PC can. So even if you buy nice 6mp cam's with 3072 × 2048 resolution, the DVR will only record it at 1080p/720p. A PC with gigabit ethernet can. It will use 15-20% of the processor for each cam at full rez on the newest Intel i5 at full 3072 × 2048. and one caveat, if any of that lingo above doesn't make sense....don't bother with a DIY system. Have a pro install it. Wow you are grossly overstating how much bandwidth IP cameras use. Firstly, Cat5e is rated for gigabit. Secondly, the streaming bit rate can normally be set in the camera. A 1080p camera with a bit rate of 4 Mbps is plenty. That's more than 20 streams on Fast Ethernet or more than 200 on gigabit. Thirdly, there are no such things as 10/1000 switches. There are 10/100 and 10/100/1000. Cables are not all equal YMMV!! And you gotta understand, I am telling this guy how to set him self up for success and not have issues down the road. ALWAYS OVERBUILD. |
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Originally Posted By gaspain:
alright then Mr Accuracy, how many 2mp cameras fit on a cat6 and how many 6mp cameras fit on a cat6? If you are so inclined to correct me. At 10fps, and 30fps. 5e might be rated for it but in my experience its not gigabit in real life because lan cables simply are mostly poorly made and over claim, so you buy better cat 6 or 7. Cables are not all equal YMMV!! And you gotta understand, I am telling this guy how to set him self up for success and not have issues down the road. ALWAYS OVERBUILD. View Quote Well, it's tough to plan for success with inaccurate information. Measure twice cut once type of thing. The MP count and framerate cannot directly translate into how many "fit" on a Cat6 cable. It is the bit rate that is the important element and that can be variable with a set maximum or a constant bit rate. You can easily figure this out for yourself. Divide available network bandwidth by the bitrate used by the streams. Rated is rated. For Ethernet cable to be certified as Cat 5e, it is certified for gigabit speeds up to 100 meters. Cat 6 is also certified to for gigabit speeds for up to 100 meters. Cat 6 is able (depending on environmental conidtions) to carry 10Gbe for up to ~50 meters. Cat 6A is certified for 10Gbe up to 100 meters. There are plenty of reasons why a cable is not performing to its rating. Poor construction from shady companies, damaged wirings, poor installation, excessive outside interference, etc. Using CCA cable comes to mind. Just because a cable is rated Cat6 or Cat7 does not automatically make it better than 5e in quality. Cat7 is stupid expensive for what you get. |
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Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Yeah... daylight plates are relatively easy. The problem with plates at night is that they're surrounded by BRIGHT lights (tail and head-lights). Even a WDR camera can't adjust quick enough... so you end up having to use filters (LPR, or long-pass filters) to cut out almost all of the visible light. Then you have to have short exposure times (fast shutter speed) to prevent the moving target from blurring. THEN you need hard-core IR light to illuminate that reflective plate... it takes that extra IR (not blocked by your LPR filter) to get the plate to "pop" in the video. Often you have to use an IR source rated for THREE TIMES the distance you're trying to catch. So if the plate is 45 feet away, you have to use an IR source rated for 150 feet (or thereabouts). These tend to be spot-type sources, with narrow beams, and high power. You have to aim those IR sources too. Not easy to get plates consistently. Doing it with cheap cameras/equipment is almost impossible. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By uglygun:
Yeah. Been there seen the results. The only saving grace is there is a street light they have to pass under so there is some full illumination. But I dont know if there is a way to get wide dynamic range out a camera that steps into night mode. Having seen the difference between daylight and low light on my CMOS style 600-720 stuff for FPV, the blown out grainy shit may just be the limitation I have to deal with. But daylight plate grabs should be possible. Yeah... daylight plates are relatively easy. The problem with plates at night is that they're surrounded by BRIGHT lights (tail and head-lights). Even a WDR camera can't adjust quick enough... so you end up having to use filters (LPR, or long-pass filters) to cut out almost all of the visible light. Then you have to have short exposure times (fast shutter speed) to prevent the moving target from blurring. THEN you need hard-core IR light to illuminate that reflective plate... it takes that extra IR (not blocked by your LPR filter) to get the plate to "pop" in the video. Often you have to use an IR source rated for THREE TIMES the distance you're trying to catch. So if the plate is 45 feet away, you have to use an IR source rated for 150 feet (or thereabouts). These tend to be spot-type sources, with narrow beams, and high power. You have to aim those IR sources too. Not easy to get plates consistently. Doing it with cheap cameras/equipment is almost impossible. It may be easier just to light the area up like the sun and run the cameras in daytime mode. |
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Originally Posted By beavo451:
It may be easier just to light the area up like the sun and run the cameras in daytime mode. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By beavo451:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By uglygun:
Yeah. Been there seen the results. The only saving grace is there is a street light they have to pass under so there is some full illumination. But I dont know if there is a way to get wide dynamic range out a camera that steps into night mode. Having seen the difference between daylight and low light on my CMOS style 600-720 stuff for FPV, the blown out grainy shit may just be the limitation I have to deal with. But daylight plate grabs should be possible. Yeah... daylight plates are relatively easy. The problem with plates at night is that they're surrounded by BRIGHT lights (tail and head-lights). Even a WDR camera can't adjust quick enough... so you end up having to use filters (LPR, or long-pass filters) to cut out almost all of the visible light. Then you have to have short exposure times (fast shutter speed) to prevent the moving target from blurring. THEN you need hard-core IR light to illuminate that reflective plate... it takes that extra IR (not blocked by your LPR filter) to get the plate to "pop" in the video. Often you have to use an IR source rated for THREE TIMES the distance you're trying to catch. So if the plate is 45 feet away, you have to use an IR source rated for 150 feet (or thereabouts). These tend to be spot-type sources, with narrow beams, and high power. You have to aim those IR sources too. Not easy to get plates consistently. Doing it with cheap cameras/equipment is almost impossible. It may be easier just to light the area up like the sun and run the cameras in daytime mode. Still doesn't fix all the bright light sources around the plates. Your long-pass filter makes all that extra ambient light irrelevant anyway. IR and the appropriate filters are the way to get plates... if you try to go unfiltered, vehicle headlights kill your ability to pick out the plate. Think in terms of the "wall of light" LEOs use at night during traffic stops... you can't see anything (or pick out details) with all that blinding light in your face... and cameras that CAN handle that illumination (and quickly enough to catch a moving plate that may only be visible for a few frames) are quite expensive. If you have the option, try to get rear plates. There is less blinding light, and while not all states require a front plate, all states require at least a rear plate. The physical configuration of whatever road/entry you are wiring will often determine what your options are. |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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The arguments going on are actually helpful.
Interference is something on my mind. Namely thr conduit that carries my CAT6 and CAT5E run are also ran next to a cable coax within their 2 inch conduit. Unfortuntately, running down the wall and through the ground, burried under concrete, is a 3 inch conduit running my 240 power to the garage. I am not getting any interference on my TV coming through on the coax. But the things are not seperated by that much. It may be enough seperation though for what it is. As for bandwidth, if I had known about CAT7 and CAT6 improvements at the time I would have done an additional run. As it stands I use one line for wired LAN to the house for gaming or internet. That could be my net connection for logging into a system to remotely view cameras. The other line could be the link from switch with 3 cameras for the house to DVR/monitors/control in the garage. I get how the IP nature of the cameras makes this all possible and easy. I dont know if I would get the clarity I want on the 3 cameras that combine their runs to one network cable. I have other cable runs I could make inside the house and place a DVR then use my spare cable in the detached garage for a stand alone camera and shoot it's feed to the house. Option 1, dvr in detached garage with the 3 house cameras feeding to a centralized switch before the feed from 3 cameras coming to it along one CAT5E or CAT6 out to the DVR. Total run from the switch would be between 50-80 feet depending on switch location and which line got used. Option 2, dvr in house with individual runs to the POE switch or even direct to the DVR itself. Existing CAT5E or CAT6 out in the garage is a lone POE run for single camera. I am sure there are other combinations I can come up with if need be but those two are the most obvious. As for issue of catching plates, I am a corner lot and for a car to get by my house it has to make a series of turns that almost guarantees they have to reveal their rear plates. The way I could overlap the cameras on the front of my garage would get the vehicles coming/going regardless of travel. I have seen lots of security camera footage during trials and find the worst thing about certain store bought ready made systems is that they seem to use proprietary codecs(or maybe just renamed shit for sake of being a pain in the ass.). Attorneys are always needing to rip files from the system for a player to play back because the standard codecs for MediaPlayer rarely work. VLC player has been the most flexible out there. Have also seen a wide variety of low light problems with cameras becoming pixilated. My main concern is for daylight capture because that is when I tend to be gone. Night time images do not need to be the priority but wouod orefer better than typical. Close range and IR capable being preferred. The open source Ispy stuff sounds awesome. Not sure if I want to get into that just yet though. Already talked to my buddy who is a software engineer/programmer. He has his own set of plans for a raspberry-pi enabled device to send images so he has been brushing up on tech to build his own camera/circuits. My POE and network plans are simple compared to his plans. |
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Here is a great thread where an ARFcommer installed his own system (a Swann IP-based system-in-a-box), caught a thief on video, and successfully prosecuted the little brigand.
Click here for the pwnage |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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I know that I have mentioned building my own PC to take care the DVR side of things, but the more I think about it, I would really like to know more about NAS setups that do this. Specifically Synology's "Surveillance Station" on one of there 8 bay NAS boxes. For a little more money, I would not have to piece together a PC just for this task. On top of that, the NAS can serve other roles at the same time. The model that I am speaking of (DS1815+) has four Gigabit LAN ports that can all be used together or for different devices and can offload to additional external storage via two E-SATA or four USB 3.0 ports.
Has anyone had any experience with either using a Synology NAS for security purposes and/or their "Surveillance Station" software? PS: We are still working on getting our cameras mounted. It is turning out to be more a pain in the neck than I had originally though it would be, with running the CAT6 through the attic and all. By the time I get the last one up, it will be time to upgrade. |
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I did the NAS thing for a little while (four-bay QNAP) but found that when you really started adding the higher-megapixel cameras, it just didn't have the horsepower that it needed.
It worked OK... But when I really started loading it up, it would bog down, especially if anything else (like a RAID rebuild) was going on in the background. |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
I did the NAS thing for a little while (four-bay QNAP) but found that when you really started adding the higher-megapixel cameras, it just didn't have the horsepower that it needed. It worked OK... But when I really started loading it up, it would bog down, especially if anything else (like a RAID rebuild) was going on in the background. View Quote Hmm. I wonder if the model I listed would be any different under load. It has an Intel Atom C2538 Quad Core 2.4 GHz CPU and up to 6 GB of DDR3 RAM. |
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Originally Posted By gaspain:
alright then Mr Accuracy, how many 2mp cameras fit on a cat6 and how many 6mp cameras fit on a cat6? If you are so inclined to correct me. At 10fps, and 30fps. 5e might be rated for it but in my experience its not gigabit in real life because lan cables simply are mostly poorly made and over claim, so you buy better cat 6 or 7. Cables are not all equal YMMV!! And you gotta understand, I am telling this guy how to set him self up for success and not have issues down the road. ALWAYS OVERBUILD. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By gaspain:
Originally Posted By beavo451:
Originally Posted By gaspain:
you can run your cams to a poe 10/1000 switch the cams can be cat5e, but the "backhaul" frome the switch to the PC should be cat6 or cat7 gigabit. The PC needs to have gigabit lan. Most DVR's do not have gigabit lan and will not work. On a single 10/100 cat5e cable, yoou have enought bandwidth for one or two 2mp cams. on a single 10/1000 gigabit cable, you can fit 10 of them. *estimated so yea, get a Tplink 10/1000 gigabit poe switch and set that centrally located in your house. then run cat5e or cat6 to your cams and runa cat6 or 7 to the garage where you have a PC with gigabit ethernet running ispy connect or Blue iris. Set your cams with static IP's: such as 192.168.1.200 then the next is 201 then 202 and so on. also, about your homedepot link. Never heard of that brand. And DVR's are easier, however less reliable and record at lower resolution than a PC can. So even if you buy nice 6mp cam's with 3072 × 2048 resolution, the DVR will only record it at 1080p/720p. A PC with gigabit ethernet can. It will use 15-20% of the processor for each cam at full rez on the newest Intel i5 at full 3072 × 2048. and one caveat, if any of that lingo above doesn't make sense....don't bother with a DIY system. Have a pro install it. Wow you are grossly overstating how much bandwidth IP cameras use. Firstly, Cat5e is rated for gigabit. Secondly, the streaming bit rate can normally be set in the camera. A 1080p camera with a bit rate of 4 Mbps is plenty. That's more than 20 streams on Fast Ethernet or more than 200 on gigabit. Thirdly, there are no such things as 10/1000 switches. There are 10/100 and 10/100/1000. Cables are not all equal YMMV!! And you gotta understand, I am telling this guy how to set him self up for success and not have issues down the road. ALWAYS OVERBUILD. If you're not getting gigabit on cat5e cable to 100m, it's not really cat5e or it's damaged. Cat6 has some shielding advantages, but unless you're doing short run of copper 10g, don't bother. If you really want electrical noise immunity in a place where you'd actually need it on a run I'd much prefer to just use om3. You can also lag together your runs from the recording server to the switch for more bandwidth, but I'd doubt you'd need it for anything other than redundancy. Figure out your stream bandwidth, this is going to vary by camera. Resolution and framerate matter, but every camera is going to be different, you'll have to test it yourself or check if it's listed in specs. Adding 20-40% overhead may make sense. Pulling numbers out of your ass doesn't. |
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Originally Posted By ss2nv:
Hmm. I wonder if the model I listed would be any different under load. It has an Intel Atom C2538 Quad Core 2.4 GHz CPU and up to 6 GB of DDR3 RAM. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ss2nv:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
I did the NAS thing for a little while (four-bay QNAP) but found that when you really started adding the higher-megapixel cameras, it just didn't have the horsepower that it needed. It worked OK... But when I really started loading it up, it would bog down, especially if anything else (like a RAID rebuild) was going on in the background. Hmm. I wonder if the model I listed would be any different under load. It has an Intel Atom C2538 Quad Core 2.4 GHz CPU and up to 6 GB of DDR3 RAM. Mine had a dual-core Atom at 1.8 Ghz (IIRC). It needed more. I moved up to a quad-core Core2Extreme at 3Ghz per-core. It runs around a constant 45-55% cpu utilization, but that's carrying 15 cameras, with only one of them being <3 MP |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Mine had a dual-core Atom at 1.8 Ghz (IIRC). It needed more. I moved up to a quad-core Core2Extreme at 3Ghz per-core. It runs around a constant 45-55% cpu utilization, but that's carrying 15 cameras, with only one of them being <3 MP View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By ss2nv:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
I did the NAS thing for a little while (four-bay QNAP) but found that when you really started adding the higher-megapixel cameras, it just didn't have the horsepower that it needed. It worked OK... But when I really started loading it up, it would bog down, especially if anything else (like a RAID rebuild) was going on in the background. Hmm. I wonder if the model I listed would be any different under load. It has an Intel Atom C2538 Quad Core 2.4 GHz CPU and up to 6 GB of DDR3 RAM. Mine had a dual-core Atom at 1.8 Ghz (IIRC). It needed more. I moved up to a quad-core Core2Extreme at 3Ghz per-core. It runs around a constant 45-55% cpu utilization, but that's carrying 15 cameras, with only one of them being <3 MP I will will be using 9 3MP cameras. I am going to play with frame rate and resolution per camera. I really think that Synology might just have the solution that I need without me having to build a PC to do this...maybe. I really like the built-in redundancy that a NAS provides through it's OS. It means that I don't have to manually set up a RAID if I were to build a PC for this. We will see, I guess. |
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Originally Posted By ss2nv:
I will will be using 9 3MP cameras. I am going to play with frame rate and resolution per camera. I really think that Synology might just have the solution that I need without me having to build a PC to do this...maybe. I really like the built-in redundancy that a NAS provides through it's OS. It means that I don't have to manually set up a RAID if I were to build a PC for this. We will see, I guess. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ss2nv:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By ss2nv:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
I did the NAS thing for a little while (four-bay QNAP) but found that when you really started adding the higher-megapixel cameras, it just didn't have the horsepower that it needed. It worked OK... But when I really started loading it up, it would bog down, especially if anything else (like a RAID rebuild) was going on in the background. Hmm. I wonder if the model I listed would be any different under load. It has an Intel Atom C2538 Quad Core 2.4 GHz CPU and up to 6 GB of DDR3 RAM. Mine had a dual-core Atom at 1.8 Ghz (IIRC). It needed more. I moved up to a quad-core Core2Extreme at 3Ghz per-core. It runs around a constant 45-55% cpu utilization, but that's carrying 15 cameras, with only one of them being <3 MP I will will be using 9 3MP cameras. I am going to play with frame rate and resolution per camera. I really think that Synology might just have the solution that I need without me having to build a PC to do this...maybe. I really like the built-in redundancy that a NAS provides through it's OS. It means that I don't have to manually set up a RAID if I were to build a PC for this. We will see, I guess. Manually setting up a RAID is like 10 keystrokes. It is not a big deal. IIRC, most Synology NAS devices only come with 2 or 4 camera licenses. Meaning you will need to by up to 7 licenses at $60 a pop. |
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Originally Posted By beavo451:
Manually setting up a RAID is like 10 keystrokes. It is not a big deal. IIRC, most Synology NAS devices only come with 2 or 4 camera licenses. Meaning you will need to by up to 7 licenses at $60 a pop. View Quote I don't have my current NVR RAIDed... I just use three data drives and change them out as they fail. And he's correct. You have to buy additional licenses for extra camera channels. Bcauz3y is using an NAS-based NVR. Send him a PM and ask his opinion. |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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I need to add one wireless camera to an area I can't run cable to. I can run power to it from a nearby light.
I don't necessarily want to set up an nvr for this one camera. So the question is, what is the best method to monitor and record a single camera? The camera will be mounted on a sofit facing the approach to my front door. The door faces away from the approach, so a doorbell camera wouldn't work. |
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Proud Member of Team Ranstad
broken_reticle: Republicans have become Democrats and Democrats.have become communists. They both have been dragging conservatives out bhind the barn and executing them. |
Originally Posted By Got_Nukes:
I need to add one wireless camera to an area I can't run cable to. I can run power to it from a nearby light. I don't necessarily want to set up an nvr for this one camera. So the question is, what is the best method to monitor and record a single camera? The camera will be mounted on a sofit facing the approach to my front door. The door faces away from the approach, so a doorbell camera wouldn't work. View Quote I'm having a hard time picturing what you're talking about. Mind posting a pic or two? |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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Originally Posted By Got_Nukes:
Front door is on the left of the large window. There are steps leading up to the door from the driveway, but the door faces away from the approach. The plan is to run power from the light to a power supply you mentioned in another thread, to provide power to the wireless camera. Not sure what the best method is to monitor and record one wireless camera. http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b626/scottd1911/20150622_131156_zps4s08jdim.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Got_Nukes:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By Got_Nukes:
I need to add one wireless camera to an area I can't run cable to. I can run power to it from a nearby light. I don't necessarily want to set up an nvr for this one camera. So the question is, what is the best method to monitor and record a single camera? The camera will be mounted on a sofit facing the approach to my front door. The door faces away from the approach, so a doorbell camera wouldn't work. I'm having a hard time picturing what you're talking about. Mind posting a pic or two? Front door is on the left of the large window. There are steps leading up to the door from the driveway, but the door faces away from the approach. The plan is to run power from the light to a power supply you mentioned in another thread, to provide power to the wireless camera. Not sure what the best method is to monitor and record one wireless camera. http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b626/scottd1911/20150622_131156_zps4s08jdim.jpg Couple of thoughts. You could get a camera that does internal recording (like some of the Hiks). Some of them do wireless (I just did this for a friend), and all you need is power. Front door cameras are often a challenge because some of the "grand entrances" that people have on their homes don't lend themselves either to unsightly cameras, or to ease-of-installation (getting Cat5 to some of them is almost impossible). If all you can get is power, get a wifi-capable Hikvision that takes an internal SD card. Now for the alerts. I always recommend sensor-based alerts (just for reliability and no bogus alerts), but that's more wiring. It's not MUCH more, but you may not want to do it (I'd do a dome PIR "occupancy sensor" on that front corner where the sidewalk makes that 90-degree bend, so it alerts to anybody on the front walk). Failing that, if you have the field-of-view picked well (eg. there isn't much vegetation in it), and you use the motion-detection exclusion zones in your camera settings, you could do video-motion-detection. It shouldn't false-alert TOO much... but lighnting, car headlights, sun-going-behind-the-clouds, etc may still set it off. |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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TGM, thanks for the advice. I hadn't thought of adding a PIR sensor. You've given me more to think about.
Any recommendations on the sensor? |
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Proud Member of Team Ranstad
broken_reticle: Republicans have become Democrats and Democrats.have become communists. They both have been dragging conservatives out bhind the barn and executing them. |
Originally Posted By Got_Nukes:
TGM, thanks for the advice. I hadn't thought of adding a PIR sensor. You've given me more to think about. Any recommendations on the sensor? View Quote I usually use Crow, or Optex. I don't know if Optex makes a ceiling-mount outdoor PIR sensor, but they make plenty of wall-mount models. Crow definitely makes an outdoor-rated ceiling-mount PIR. ETA: the Crow sensor is their SRX-360 |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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What brands are best?
Assuming 2 IP cameras have the same nominal specs and cost is not an issue, what are the best and worst brands? |
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Originally Posted By fluwoebers:
What brands are best? Assuming 2 IP cameras have the same nominal specs and cost is not an issue, what are the best and worst brands? View Quote Honestly? I can't categorize like that. For instance, Mobotix. They have cameras that I love, and some that I don't love. Hikvision: they also have cameras that I love, and cameras that I don't like. Both are quality manufacturers. VEEEERRRRY different price points (and feature sets). |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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Sam's Club carries the Florex and Samsung wireless systems. Both are under $500
Are these decent? |
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Originally Posted By MP0117:
Sam's Club carries the Florex and Samsung wireless systems. Both are under $500 Are these decent? View Quote Yes. The Samsung is probably higher quality... But Samsung is infamous for using proprietary cabling and crap like that. I'd have to look at those very carefully to decide. |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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No issues with your cam placement.
You're probably not getting that done for 1k... You might be able to get it done for 1.5k or so. You could use a wireless bridge to get the cameras streams from the garage to the house. Might require another $200 in hardware. You can't daisy-chain cameras. You could pull the individual runs of cat5/6 through conduit to a central junction box, put a PoE switch in there, and then run a single cable from that switch, through the wall, into the house, to the central DVR. ETA: the network cams operate in a "star" configuration, with the PoE switch (or PoE-supplying DVR) at the center of the star. Think of it like a hub and spokes on a wheel. |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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No daisy chains, just pull multiple runs together, cat5 pulls easy. I'm never a fan of WiFi for things that need continuous connectivity, dedicated point to point on enterprise gear is one thing, consumer WiFi to a router inside the house on typically congested bands is another... conduit or burial grade cat5e isn't that hard to work with at all. You can certainly do a second poe injector/switch in the garage and even run it to the house wirelessly, but you don't need to and I wouldn't.
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Originally Posted By MrZeat:
No daisy chains, just pull multiple runs together, cat5 pulls easy. I'm never a fan of WiFi for things that need continuous connectivity, dedicated point to point on enterprise gear is one thing, consumer WiFi to a router inside the house on typically congested bands is another... conduit or burial grade cat5e isn't that hard to work with at all. You can certainly do a second poe injector/switch in the garage and even run it to the house wirelessly, but you don't need to and I wouldn't. View Quote The ubiquiti stuff holds links pretty rock-solid... and over that short distance, interference shouldn't be a big deal. Just pick a not-so-congested channel... and dial the power back a bit to be a good neighbor. |
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Everything you are doing is wrong, and it is my sworn duty to resist you.
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Sure if you want to add to the budget and buy the right hardware, you certainly could do it... I'd do 5ghz on the modern AC gear (there certainly isn't anything considered uncongested in the 2.4ghz bands around here, you're location might be different...) and replace whatever youre currently using for WiFi in the house, and it would work well enough, but then you're buying multiple APs and if you don't configure this stuff all day that can be a little daunting (though doable for anyone slightly tech savvy).
But you're probably looking at a little over 300ish in hardware vs <$50 for the amount of direct burial cat5e it would take for that run. I'd personally pull at least an extra run OR do it in conduit (leave a pull string) so to future proof it for future projects and do them directly to the cameras so I didn't require power in the garage so that they can all be powered off the central switch and UPS(s) next to your video server/DVR. |
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