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Posted: 6/27/2013 7:37:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By Sand_Man:
Thank you for the informative thread. I have one question. Could I put an off the shelf day/night camera into a weather-proof box designed for cameras?...anything to look out for? We are near the Gulf Coast so the weather is a concern of mine, it can be storming one minute and 95* the next minute. Thanks. Just watch out for heat. You'll probably need to ventilate that box in some fashion to keep it cool. |
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Posted: 6/28/2013 9:31:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Are Foscam outdoor IP bullet cams a good bang for the buck?
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Posted: 6/29/2013 12:20:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Originally Posted By Billy-the-Man:
Are Foscam outdoor IP bullet cams a good bang for the buck? No experience with those. |
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Posted: 8/17/2013 9:47:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pcsutton]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Billy-the-Man: Are Foscam outdoor IP bullet cams a good bang for the buck? For the dough they're not bad. They could use a wider field of view in my opinion. The main drawback to them is the way the cords attach to them. They have a big network cable plug (used to configure them to the net), 2 RCA jacks (for speaker and Mic), a small system reset button, and the power jack....all coming off the center of the rear panel in one cable which 'splits out' about 12 inches from the camera. Picture of cable attachment point: http://www.foscam.com.ro/foscam-fi8905w-waterproof-wireless-ircut-ddns-gratuit.html That bunch of stuff has to be run somewhere and hidden away. A lot of cameras run those cords through the center of the mount so it cant be seen/cut. To 'secure' the power cord (and all it's accompanying plugs), requires cutting a hole about 10 times the diameter needed for just the 1/16" power cord. Then the extra hole needs to be sealed up somehow. PITA. Bear in mind that Foscam's bullet cameras are not promoted as being vandal proof and disabling one by cutting the exposed cord is very do-able from behind....without actually getting on camera...unless the camera being disabled is in another camera's field of view. A security camera for a security camera, if you will. Other than the fact that dealing with the cord is much harder that it could be, they aren't 'bad' cameras for the price. I did run my cords through 1" aluminum flexible metal conduit...mainly for the illusion of security.  Now that I know their inherent mounting drawbacks, I will likely buy more of them as they are actually pretty good cameras...all in all. |
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Posted: 8/20/2013 2:02:13 AM EDT
[#5]
So I'm looking at the acti e43. Thinking of placing 4of them around the house. Also thinking of purchasing cheap laptop with external hard drive for the nvr. Does thissound rright. I have just read through this thread. Just had some stuff stolen a few days ago. I wrote a letter and made copies telling everyone in the neighborhood what happened. Well, I'm not the only one. One neighbor has been hit twice this month. Wish they would have wrote me a letter. I would have secured my things better had I known thefts were taking place.
I'm not to sure on placement. I have a shop in back corner of the yard. My stuff was stolen out of my boat located on the side of the house. I also park my personal and work truck there most of the time. Would like to have the driveway/front door covered as well. I have an alarm system for the house so this would probably be my last item on the security list. |
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Posted: 8/21/2013 5:45:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Thursdaymike:
So I'm looking at the acti e43. Thinking of placing 4of them around the house. Also thinking of purchasing cheap laptop with external hard drive for the nvr. Does thissound rright. I have just read through this thread. Just had some stuff stolen a few days ago. I wrote a letter and made copies telling everyone in the neighborhood what happened. Well, I'm not the only one. One neighbor has been hit twice this month. Wish they would have wrote me a letter. I would have secured my things better had I known thefts were taking place. http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q239/mikestrane/IMG_20130820_005643.jpg I'm not to sure on placement. I have a shop in back corner of the yard. My stuff was stolen out of my boat located on the side of the house. I also park my personal and work truck there most of the time. Would like to have the driveway/front door covered as well. I have an alarm system for the house so this would probably be my last item on the security list. The E43 is a pretty high-res camera... and a good value for the money. Definitely cover the driveway. Definitely cover your outbuildings (popular target for theft, and rarely covered by a home alarm system). I almost always recommend a front-door camera, since walking up and ringing your doorbell (with some sort of ruse if you actually answer) is a popular way to test or "bump" the target before proceeding with a break-in. |
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Posted: 10/7/2013 8:35:05 AM EDT
[#7]
I was wondering if anyone has used or has any experience with the Speco Intensifier3 cameras. I'm looking at the HT7247H series.
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Posted: 10/7/2013 9:12:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By searchin4shacks:
I was wondering if anyone has used or has any experience with the Speco Intensifier3 cameras. I'm looking at the HT7247H series. I used the Intensifier-2 series for a while. They give a very good analog picture during the day... and at night, they do make good use of available light. HOWEVER, they do it by slowing down the shutter speed... by quite a lot. This means that anything that's moving will be an unrecognizable blur. Not recommended. Get a real day/night camera instead, and install some extra illumination. |
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Posted: 10/10/2013 6:39:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks Grayman. I'm trying to figure out which cameras to use on a tight budget. Not knowing anything makes it pretty hard with the hundreds of choices out there.
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Posted: 10/16/2013 11:55:41 AM EDT
[#10]
Tag! Thank you again...
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Posted: 11/24/2013 8:35:50 AM EDT
[#11]
Tag!!!
I'm looking into the wireless out of the box systems which I haven't seen mentioned. Already have an alarm, but I want to be able to see who may be at the front door or garage. There have been plenty of times where even on the same floor I didn't hear the UPS guy park outside my garage and drop off a box. I don't need anything crazy, just enough for situational awareness. |
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Posted: 11/24/2013 12:06:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By donnieR32:
Tag!!! I'm looking into the wireless out of the box systems which I haven't seen mentioned. Already have an alarm, but I want to be able to see who may be at the front door or garage. There have been plenty of times where even on the same floor I didn't hear the UPS guy park outside my garage and drop off a box. I don't need anything crazy, just enough for situational awareness. I honestly don't like wireless links, except in circumstances where running cable is simply impossible, or economically prohibitive. If it means drilling a few holes, I drill a few holes. 
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USA
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Posted: 11/24/2013 7:30:17 PM EDT
[#13]
tag
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OR, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2013 3:24:51 AM EDT
[#14]
I have had a Lorex outdoor IR two camera system on the outside of the house for over three years with no problems. The system came with a small iPad size screen that sits on the end table nest to my chair and I can spot any movement all night as I sit and work on my laptop or watch TV. $200 for the entire system at Costco. They are now sold in a four camera system but I have had them for over three years.
In order to help keep the camera's out of the worst of the weather and snow I mounted them inside two wooden birdhouses that are on top of posts. Everyone driving by or up the ddriveway only see the multiple birdhouses and unless you really look you can not tell that two of them have camera's inside looking out. The camera's are very good and I can see 50 feet down our driveway to our gate with no problem, day or night, and nobody can see the camera's without really looking. |
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Posted: 12/1/2013 3:56:22 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ReleasetheHounds:
I have had a Lorex outdoor IR two camera system on the outside of the house for over three years with no problems. The system came with a small iPad size screen that sits on the end table nest to my chair and I can spot any movement all night as I sit and work on my laptop or watch TV. $200 for the entire system at Costco. They are now sold in a four camera system but I have had them for over three years. In order to help keep the camera's out of the worst of the weather and snow I mounted them inside two wooden birdhouses that are on top of posts. Everyone driving by or up the ddriveway only see the multiple birdhouses and unless you really look you can not tell that two of them have camera's inside looking out. The camera's are very good and I can see 50 feet down our driveway to our gate with no problem, day or night, and nobody can see the camera's without really looking. That's a good first post. Welcome.
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Posted: 12/1/2013 5:07:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bigshooter81]
[#16]
Moved -
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/5/2013 6:38:00 PM EDT
[#17]
I just installed a Foscam FI9821W wireless PT IP camera. I installed it in my front window and was quite pleased with the picture quality of my front yard.
Unfortunately, its night now, and the IR illumination has turned on. It is reflecting off the glass in the window, and showing absolutely nothing in the front yard. Any suggestions? I don't think this camera was meant to be used outdoors. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 7:33:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By caskalefan:
I just installed a Foscam FI9821W wireless PT IP camera. I installed it in my front window and was quite pleased with the picture quality of my front yard. Unfortunately, its night now, and the IR illumination has turned on. It is reflecting off the glass in the window, and showing absolutely nothing in the front yard. Any suggestions? I don't think this camera was meant to be used outdoors. Is there an option in the software to shut off the IR LEDs? I have one Foscam, and I think it has that option. You can't use an IR-LED-equipped camera behind a window. The IR reflection completely blinds it. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/5/2013 10:04:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Is there an option in the software to shut off the IR LEDs? I have one Foscam, and I think it has that option. You can't use an IR-LED-equipped camera behind a window. The IR reflection completely blinds it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By caskalefan:
I just installed a Foscam FI9821W wireless PT IP camera. I installed it in my front window and was quite pleased with the picture quality of my front yard. Unfortunately, its night now, and the IR illumination has turned on. It is reflecting off the glass in the window, and showing absolutely nothing in the front yard. Any suggestions? I don't think this camera was meant to be used outdoors. Is there an option in the software to shut off the IR LEDs? I have one Foscam, and I think it has that option. You can't use an IR-LED-equipped camera behind a window. The IR reflection completely blinds it. Thanks for the info. I did disable the IR led's, and I can see my front yard, though it is a bit dark. Looks like I need to upgrade my lighting now! 
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Posted: 1/14/2014 1:21:35 PM EDT
[#20]
WRT to mounting a camera on a porch or entrance, what would be the ideal angle to catch faces? I've seen lots of video where the cameras were in such an angle, a baseball hat was enough to conceal an identity.
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Posted: 1/14/2014 1:29:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moondog:
WRT to mounting a camera on a porch or entrance, what would be the ideal angle to catch faces? I've seen lots of video where the cameras were in such an angle, a baseball hat was enough to conceal an identity. The more direct-on, the better. Eye-level is considered ideal, but a camera mounted right next to the door should have wide dynamic range, since porches tend to shaded, which leaves the person being viewed viciously backlit/silhouetted against a sunny front-yard. A situation like that may completely obscure the person's face if the camera can't compensate for that backlighting. A compromise might be to put the camera on a wall perpendicular to the door, so they are not silhouetted, and you can catch the person from the side |
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Posted: 1/14/2014 1:52:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Thanks! The porch is lit, and the walkway approaching is from the south (door on east side.) I had already guessed a camera watching the walkway would be washed out during the day. If a camera was thin enough, I might be able to disguise it, yet catch a profile at eye level.
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Posted: 1/14/2014 2:31:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moondog:
Thanks! The porch is lit, and the walkway approaching is from the south (door on east side.) I had already guessed a camera watching the walkway would be washed out during the day. If a camera was thin enough, I might be able to disguise it, yet catch a profile at eye level. A compromise would be to elevate it just enough that it would have a slight downward angle, and wouldn't catch any of the sky/sun. You're not trying to see the sky in any case... you're more concerned with what's on the ground. I try to avoid having any sky in my camera views. |
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Posted: 1/14/2014 3:00:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Understood. I plan to place the camera on south side of doorway pointing north, where it's shady. Also, the camera will not be seen until you step up on the porch.
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Posted: 1/17/2014 8:43:10 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moondog:
Thanks! The porch is lit, and the walkway approaching is from the south (door on east side.) I had already guessed a camera watching the walkway would be washed out during the day. If a camera was thin enough, I might be able to disguise it, yet catch a profile at eye level. Here's an example of a too-high camera, and a guy taking measures to avoid it (check out this flat-billed-hat-wearing douchebag): 
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Posted: 1/17/2014 1:45:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Good example.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2014 10:39:11 AM EDT
[#27]
Quite a good example of how a camera system must be a layer of home security not the only deterrent. Hard to tell but looks like he either picked or bumped the lock on the door. The privacy of that home was probably a big reason why he didn't care about taking his time. The homeowner would have benefitted from some sort of push alert.
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Posted: 1/18/2014 12:24:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mr_Psmith]
[#28]
I got an alarm system BEFORE I got cameras.
That homeowner should have had an alarm. |
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Posted: 1/18/2014 12:34:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Psmith:
I got an alarm system BEFORE I got cameras. That homeowner should have had an alarm. That's how I did it. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 1/19/2014 7:35:22 PM EDT
[#30]
I've been reading through this thread for the past couple of days. I have a basic " big box store " Night Owl camera system. It worked good, but want to upgrade a little bit. I can't afford a full $1000 + system. I was looking at this Swann SWDVK . Its pretty much at the top of my budget. I've mapped out how I will lay out the system, and run the wires through my soffit vents, through my attic and then into a room ( I own a ranch ). Curious as to your input on this system, and if there's any other system in this price range with a better set up. Thanks Grayman for your help/
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Posted: 1/19/2014 8:36:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pete7072:
I've been reading through this thread for the past couple of days. I have a basic " big box store " Night Owl camera system. It worked good, but want to upgrade a little bit. I can't afford a full $1000 + system. I was looking at this Swann SWDVK . Its pretty much at the top of my budget. I've mapped out how I will lay out the system, and run the wires through my soffit vents, through my attic and then into a room ( I own a ranch ). Curious as to your input on this system, and if there's any other system in this price range with a better set up. Thanks Grayman for your help/ I don't think you'll see enough improvement with that system to justify the cost. I'd only spend money if you're going to an IP-based system. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2014 9:47:19 AM EDT
[#32]
I originally bought the cameras about 5 years ago, because my teen neighbor was vandalizing my car. I sold that house last year, and moved into a new house. I just unpacked the system yesterday to make sure everything was working good. Three of the four power supply cables are not working. While I tested them, I realized how inadequate they really are. They could not read large print on a cardboard box from 10 feet away. The print was very blurry. They are only 400 TVL. I am going to shop around a little and maybe find something a little better.
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Posted: 1/27/2014 9:50:53 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pete7072:
I originally bought the cameras about 5 years ago, because my teen neighbor was vandalizing my car. I sold that house last year, and moved into a new house. I just unpacked the system yesterday to make sure everything was working good. Three of the four power supply cables are not working. While I tested them, I realized how inadequate they really are. They could not read large print on a cardboard box from 10 feet away. The print was very blurry. They are only 400 TVL. I am going to shop around a little and maybe find something a little better. I'd have left that system installed at the old place. I had a system in the last house I sold, and it was a great selling point (the buyers were VERY impressed) |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2014 9:56:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Great information and timely, as I've been researching various ip cameras to cover the exterior, and will probably go with something I can POE.
Do you have any thoughts on Blue Iris as a camera management tool? Also, although I'm comfortable with computers, I'm far from savvy with networking. Is setting up a small 4 ip camera system something the average guy can do? |
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Posted: 1/27/2014 11:08:48 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By armednhappy:
Great information and timely, as I've been researching various ip cameras to cover the exterior, and will probably go with something I can POE. Do you have any thoughts on Blue Iris as a camera management tool? Also, although I'm comfortable with computers, I'm far from savvy with networking. Is setting up a small 4 ip camera system something the average guy can do? If you can set the IP address on your computer correctly (not using DHCP), then you can install network cameras. Most actually come with a tool that finds them on your local network, and gives you the address to access them. Set the IP address to what you want (write it down), change the default password (VERY important), and you're GTG. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/28/2014 10:01:15 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By armednhappy:
Great information and timely, as I've been researching various ip cameras to cover the exterior, and will probably go with something I can POE. Do you have any thoughts on Blue Iris as a camera management tool? Also, although I'm comfortable with computers, I'm far from savvy with networking. Is setting up a small 4 ip camera system something the average guy can do? I had little to no knowledge of networking when I first started, although I am pretty savy when it comes to things like this from my MIE background. I now have 5 cameras, 2 of which are POE thorugh a switch feeding directly into a NVR based upon TheGreymans tutorials. I just take it one issue at a time and with some googlefu most issues are easily resovled. If you're on an ISP like verizon, comcast, etc you will have to deal with dynamic IPs if you want to remote view. A simple program like NO.IP takes care of it easily. The most difficult portion of this project for me was running the CAT5e cable, and it was more tedious than difficult. Start with a simple POE IP camera as a proof of concept and then expand from there. Plenty of folks here will be more than happy to assist any way they can, as they were for me. |
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Posted: 1/29/2014 5:19:16 PM EDT
[#37]
The cameras I have each came with a network cord that's used to set the camera up for wireless use. Once you set the parameters up for each individual camera, then they only require power. I've become a big fan of BlueIris as a software interface. It allows remote access with minimal set up hassles. I can seem my cameras on my iPhone. All but one of my cameras are Foscam, but I have an exterior PTZ unit by Wanscam which has been working well for several months now. Cameras are just one layer of a good security system. You still need window and door switches, glass break detectors, motion sensors and a way to pull it all together. My alarm system even allows me to remotely control my lights and thermostat. |
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Posted: 1/29/2014 6:20:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
The cameras I have each came with a network cord that's used to set the camera up for wireless use. Once you set the parameters up for each individual camera, then they only require power. I've become a big fan of BlueIris as a software interface. It allows remote access with minimal set up hassles. I can seem my cameras on my iPhone. All but one of my cameras are Foscam, but I have an exterior PTZ unit by Wanscam which has been working well for several months now. Cameras are just one layer of a good security system. You still need window and door switches, glass break detectors, motion sensors and a way to pull it all together. My alarm system even allows me to remotely control my lights and thermostat. That is my next frontier... home automation/security.
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IA, USA
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Posted: 1/31/2014 1:31:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
The cameras I have each came with a network cord that's used to set the camera up for wireless use. Once you set the parameters up for each individual camera, then they only require power. I've become a big fan of BlueIris as a software interface. It allows remote access with minimal set up hassles. I can seem my cameras on my iPhone. All but one of my cameras are Foscam, but I have an exterior PTZ unit by Wanscam which has been working well for several months now. Cameras are just one layer of a good security system. You still need window and door switches, glass break detectors, motion sensors and a way to pull it all together. My alarm system even allows me to remotely control my lights and thermostat. great post, Thank you for the info. What model of foscam are you using? |
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Posted: 2/1/2014 8:04:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By armednhappy: great post, Thank you for the info. What model of foscam are you using? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By armednhappy: Originally Posted By pcsutton: The cameras I have each came with a network cord that's used to set the camera up for wireless use. Once you set the parameters up for each individual camera, then they only require power. I've become a big fan of BlueIris as a software interface. It allows remote access with minimal set up hassles. I can seem my cameras on my iPhone. All but one of my cameras are Foscam, but I have an exterior PTZ unit by Wanscam which has been working well for several months now. Cameras are just one layer of a good security system. You still need window and door switches, glass break detectors, motion sensors and a way to pull it all together. My alarm system even allows me to remotely control my lights and thermostat. great post, Thank you for the info. What model of foscam are you using? The Wanscam unit I have is the AJ-C0WA-C0D8. When I ordered the unit, I paid for express shipping. They fouled up and sent it standard. I e-mailed them and not only did they refund the difference in shipping, they gave me a $30.00 discount and to top it off... offered me 1/2 off on my next purchase. Hard to beat that kind of customer service....even from Godless communist heathens.  Their camera is great. Especially for it's price point. It also sees very well at night even with the IR diodes turned off. http://www.wanscam.com/products/2012-09-28-07-12-57/item/wireless-outdoor-ptz-ip-camera-2.html?category_id=36 |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 3/5/2014 2:55:24 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheGrayMan:
I don't think you'll see enough improvement with that system to justify the cost. I'd only spend money if you're going to an IP-based system. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By Pete7072:
I've been reading through this thread for the past couple of days. I have a basic " big box store " Night Owl camera system. It worked good, but want to upgrade a little bit. I can't afford a full $1000 + system. I was looking at this Swann SWDVK . Its pretty much at the top of my budget. I've mapped out how I will lay out the system, and run the wires through my soffit vents, through my attic and then into a room ( I own a ranch ). Curious as to your input on this system, and if there's any other system in this price range with a better set up. Thanks Grayman for your help/ I don't think you'll see enough improvement with that system to justify the cost. I'd only spend money if you're going to an IP-based system. Agree. Swann and most Lorex are imo both actually worse than Night Owl; and Night Owl is pretty bad. TheGrayMan - I own a security company and want to say thanks for this thread. (It's old but I just stumbled onto it), and your input here is spot-on imo. We do primarily burglar alarms (residential & commercial both), commercial fire alarm systems, camera systems, and access-control systems. Five years ago, we didn't do any residential camera systems; but now we do them regularly. The costs have come way down and the quality has gone way up. We use analog cameras almost exclusively, as you can find 700TVL cameras for one-fifth the price of what a 380TVL cost four or five years ago. A 1,000 gigabyte DVR that was thousands just a few years ago can be had for several hundred now. Fwiw, I'd say that sony imagers are worth looking for. Not "Sony" brand cameras, just Sony imagers in whatever cameras you buy. In my experience, a 600TVL sony gives a better picture than most other brands' 700TVL imagers. Further personal opinion - the wireless options so far aren't that enticing to me personally. There are some good ones and there are some cheap ones, but I've not yet found a good, cheap one. The over-the-counter wireless-camera packages tend to use small 1/4" imagers, which are roughly half the size of 1/3" imagers (picture the image difference between a riflescope with a 33mm objective lens vs one with a 25mm lens), and they tend to be low-tvl at the same time; the worst of both worlds. The only truly satisfactory wireless cctv installations we've been involved in used our normal analog cameras, wired to a third-party (both MicroComm and SuperCircuits) sender/receiver paired units. It's an expensive way to go, and on rare occasions it's the most logical answer, but you're looking at hundreds per camera in additional equipment cost; not what most homeowners will pay. |
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Posted: 3/5/2014 3:04:31 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By quake:
Agree. Swann and most Lorex are imo both actually worse than Night Owl; and Night Owl is pretty bad. TheGrayMan - I own a security company and want to say thanks for this thread. (It's old but I just stumbled onto it), and your input here is spot-on imo. We do primarily burglar alarms (residential & commercial both), commercial fire alarm systems, camera systems, and access-control systems. Five years ago, we didn't do any residential camera systems; but now we do them regularly. The costs have come way down and the quality has gone way up. We use analog cameras almost exclusively, as you can find 700TVL cameras for one-fifth the price of what a 380TVL cost four or five years ago. A 1,000 gigabyte DVR that was thousands just a few years ago can be had for several hundred now. Fwiw, I'd say that sony imagers are worth looking for. Not "Sony" brand cameras, just Sony imagers in whatever cameras you buy. In my experience, a 600TVL sony gives a better picture than most other brands' 700TVL imagers. Further personal opinion - the wireless options so far aren't that enticing to me personally. There are some good ones and there are some cheap ones, but I've not yet found a good, cheap one. The over-the-counter wireless-camera packages tend to use small 1/4" imagers, which are roughly half the size of 1/3" imagers (picture the image difference between a riflescope with a 33mm objective lens vs one with a 25mm lens), and they tend to be low-tvl at the same time; the worst of both worlds. The only truly satisfactory wireless cctv installations we've been involved in used our normal analog cameras, wired to a third-party (both MicroComm and SuperCircuits) sender/receiver paired units. It's an expensive way to go, and on rare occasions it's the most logical answer, but you're looking at hundreds per camera in additional equipment cost; not what most homeowners will pay. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By quake:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By Pete7072:
I've been reading through this thread for the past couple of days. I have a basic " big box store " Night Owl camera system. It worked good, but want to upgrade a little bit. I can't afford a full $1000 + system. I was looking at this Swann SWDVK . Its pretty much at the top of my budget. I've mapped out how I will lay out the system, and run the wires through my soffit vents, through my attic and then into a room ( I own a ranch ). Curious as to your input on this system, and if there's any other system in this price range with a better set up. Thanks Grayman for your help/ I don't think you'll see enough improvement with that system to justify the cost. I'd only spend money if you're going to an IP-based system. Agree. Swann and most Lorex are imo both actually worse than Night Owl; and Night Owl is pretty bad. TheGrayMan - I own a security company and want to say thanks for this thread. (It's old but I just stumbled onto it), and your input here is spot-on imo. We do primarily burglar alarms (residential & commercial both), commercial fire alarm systems, camera systems, and access-control systems. Five years ago, we didn't do any residential camera systems; but now we do them regularly. The costs have come way down and the quality has gone way up. We use analog cameras almost exclusively, as you can find 700TVL cameras for one-fifth the price of what a 380TVL cost four or five years ago. A 1,000 gigabyte DVR that was thousands just a few years ago can be had for several hundred now. Fwiw, I'd say that sony imagers are worth looking for. Not "Sony" brand cameras, just Sony imagers in whatever cameras you buy. In my experience, a 600TVL sony gives a better picture than most other brands' 700TVL imagers. Further personal opinion - the wireless options so far aren't that enticing to me personally. There are some good ones and there are some cheap ones, but I've not yet found a good, cheap one. The over-the-counter wireless-camera packages tend to use small 1/4" imagers, which are roughly half the size of 1/3" imagers (picture the image difference between a riflescope with a 33mm objective lens vs one with a 25mm lens), and they tend to be low-tvl at the same time; the worst of both worlds. The only truly satisfactory wireless cctv installations we've been involved in used our normal analog cameras, wired to a third-party (both MicroComm and SuperCircuits) sender/receiver paired units. It's an expensive way to go, and on rare occasions it's the most logical answer, but you're looking at hundreds per camera in additional equipment cost; not what most homeowners will pay. Since you do this professionally, look into doing some of the latest IP stuff. Seriously. It might open up a whole new market/opportunity for you... and the price isn't an order-of-magnitude different like it used to be. The price/performance ratio has really improved... Hikvision/Dahua/Lorex/Swann/rebranded-whatever are really putting serious competitive pressure on the price point of cameras. I've always been a big fan of Mobotix, Panasonic, etc but if the MTBF of any of this new stuff from Hikvision/Dahua is even remotely close, I can't see much reason to recommend those higher-priced brand-names (unless you need something specialized/specific, like VOIP capability built-in to the camera, which Mobotix does and other manufacturers don't). I never thought I'd see a system-in-a-box deal that would make me consider recommending them... but the newer multi-megapixel IP stuff being sold by Swann/Lorex is really a quantum leap in quality... and for just over $1k, it's a serious value. Hell... a few years ago, you'd pay $1k PER CAMERA for some of the quality I'm seeing now in cameras that cost $200. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 3/5/2014 4:00:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: quake]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheGrayMan:
...Since you do this professionally, look into doing some of the latest IP stuff. Seriously. It might open up a whole new market/opportunity for you... and the price isn't an order-of-magnitude different like it used to be. The price/performance ratio has really improved... Hikvision/Dahua/Lorex/Swann/rebranded-whatever are really putting serious competitive pressure on the price point of cameras. I've always been a big fan of Mobotix, Panasonic, etc but if the MTBF of any of this new stuff from Hikvision/Dahua is even remotely close, I can't see much reason to recommend those higher-priced brand-names (unless you need something specialized/specific, like VOIP capability built-in to the camera, which Mobotix does and other manufacturers don't). I never thought I'd see a system-in-a-box deal that would make me consider recommending them... but the newer multi-megapixel IP stuff being sold by Swann/Lorex is really a quantum leap in quality... and for just over $1k, it's a serious value. Hell... a few years ago, you'd pay $1k PER CAMERA for some of the quality I'm seeing now in cameras that cost $200. Funny you mention Hikvision & Dahua. Most people aren't familiar with them, but Dahua is what we've used almost exclusively (for DVR's, not cameras) for two years or more. They're great stuff. We used Everfocus forever, until experimenting with various brands including dahua, swann, hikvision and I"m sure a couple others; before finally settling on dahuas. I can't say enough good things about them, and neither can our technicians for that matter; the guys love them. Unfortunately the supplier I've been buying them from (SS&SI) has recently discontinued them, replacing them in the lineup with Cam-X, which is actually OEM'ed by Hikvision. I confess I haven't used Swann or Lorex in several years; the handful of them that we used 3-4 years ago all just reeked horribly, and I've never re-tried them. I suspect my guys would break out the pitchforks & torches if they saw another Swann on the shelf... 
I've seen the prices of IP stuff come down a ton, but we get such a small call for it, it really hasn't been worth pursuing yet. In another year or two it probably will, but not yet in our market. We're VERY rural arkansas, an hour & a half north of little rock. Our total county population is something like 30,000 people, and fully 90% of even our residential customers still use landline phones for system monitoring. We have done some IP camera stuff for schools primarily (I quoted another 35-IP-camera system to a school district in another county last week), we have one IP camera set up as a demo in our lobby, etc, but not a ton of IP video stuff by any means. That said, now that our kids are grown & gone my wife and I are in the design stages of a new house, and we'll definitely have a lot of the new-tech goodies in there, including whole-house wired IP music system (Russound MCA-5 based; only installed two of those, but they're slick), uber-good cameras, offset-mounted >900nm illuminators, etc. But most of our customers are Fred & Ethel types, not Biff & Muffy types; just about zero demand for high-tech stuff around here. So far at least; some day that's bound to change. |
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Posted: 3/5/2014 4:05:34 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By quake:
Funny you mention Hikvision & Dahua. Most people aren't familiar with them, but Dahua is what we've used almost exclusively (for DVR's, not cameras) for two years or more. They're great stuff. We used Everfocus forever, until experimenting with various brands including dahua, swann, hikvision and I"m sure a couple others; before finally settling on dahuas. I can't say enough good things about them, and neither can our technicians for that matter; the guys love them. Unfortunately the supplier I've been buying them from (SS&SI) has recently discontinued them, replacing them in the lineup with Cam-X, which is actually OEM'ed by Hikvision. I confess I haven't used Swann or Lorex in several years; the handful of them that we used 3-4 years ago all just reeked horribly, and I've never re-tried them. I suspect my guys would break out the pitchforks & torches if they saw another Swann on the shelf...
I've seen the prices of IP stuff come down a ton, but we get such a small call for it, it really hasn't been worth pursuing yet. In another year or two it probably will, but not yet in our market. We're VERY rural arkansas, an hour & a half north of little rock. Our total county population is something like 30,000 people, and fully 90% of even our residential customers still use landline phones for system monitoring. We have done some IP camera stuff for schools primarily (I quoted another 35-IP-camera system to a school district in another county last week), we have one IP camera set up as a demo in our lobby, etc, but not a ton of IP video stuff by any means. That said, now that our kids are grown & gone my wife and I are in the design stages of a new house, and we'll definitely have a lot of the new-tech goodies in there, including whole-house wired IP music system (Russound MCA-5 based; only installed two of those, but they're slick), uber-good cameras, offset-mounted >900nm illuminators, etc. But most of our customers are Fred & Ethel types, not Biff & Muffy types; just about zero demand for high-tech stuff around here. So far at least; some day that's bound to change. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By quake:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
...Since you do this professionally, look into doing some of the latest IP stuff. Seriously. It might open up a whole new market/opportunity for you... and the price isn't an order-of-magnitude different like it used to be. The price/performance ratio has really improved... Hikvision/Dahua/Lorex/Swann/rebranded-whatever are really putting serious competitive pressure on the price point of cameras. I've always been a big fan of Mobotix, Panasonic, etc but if the MTBF of any of this new stuff from Hikvision/Dahua is even remotely close, I can't see much reason to recommend those higher-priced brand-names (unless you need something specialized/specific, like VOIP capability built-in to the camera, which Mobotix does and other manufacturers don't). I never thought I'd see a system-in-a-box deal that would make me consider recommending them... but the newer multi-megapixel IP stuff being sold by Swann/Lorex is really a quantum leap in quality... and for just over $1k, it's a serious value. Hell... a few years ago, you'd pay $1k PER CAMERA for some of the quality I'm seeing now in cameras that cost $200. Funny you mention Hikvision & Dahua. Most people aren't familiar with them, but Dahua is what we've used almost exclusively (for DVR's, not cameras) for two years or more. They're great stuff. We used Everfocus forever, until experimenting with various brands including dahua, swann, hikvision and I"m sure a couple others; before finally settling on dahuas. I can't say enough good things about them, and neither can our technicians for that matter; the guys love them. Unfortunately the supplier I've been buying them from (SS&SI) has recently discontinued them, replacing them in the lineup with Cam-X, which is actually OEM'ed by Hikvision. I confess I haven't used Swann or Lorex in several years; the handful of them that we used 3-4 years ago all just reeked horribly, and I've never re-tried them. I suspect my guys would break out the pitchforks & torches if they saw another Swann on the shelf...
I've seen the prices of IP stuff come down a ton, but we get such a small call for it, it really hasn't been worth pursuing yet. In another year or two it probably will, but not yet in our market. We're VERY rural arkansas, an hour & a half north of little rock. Our total county population is something like 30,000 people, and fully 90% of even our residential customers still use landline phones for system monitoring. We have done some IP camera stuff for schools primarily (I quoted another 35-IP-camera system to a school district in another county last week), we have one IP camera set up as a demo in our lobby, etc, but not a ton of IP video stuff by any means. That said, now that our kids are grown & gone my wife and I are in the design stages of a new house, and we'll definitely have a lot of the new-tech goodies in there, including whole-house wired IP music system (Russound MCA-5 based; only installed two of those, but they're slick), uber-good cameras, offset-mounted >900nm illuminators, etc. But most of our customers are Fred & Ethel types, not Biff & Muffy types; just about zero demand for high-tech stuff around here. So far at least; some day that's bound to change. *nods* Fair enough. It's good for a businessman to know his own market. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/7/2014 12:19:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Hi,
I'm new to posting to AR15.com but I use the site as a resource for personal firearm information all the time. I am a 12-year video surveillance expert, specializing in surveillance cameras, specifically network (IP) high definition cameras and related systems. You can ask any question you wish and I will answer it as best I can as a free service to my fellow gun owners. you can also email me at [email protected] for specific questions you have that you do not wish posted on this forum. I do work for a specific manufacturer, but my advice will ALWAYS be manufacturer agnostic. There are no dumb questions, ask me anything you wish to. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/7/2014 12:28:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote History[The price/performance ratio has really improved... Hikvision/Dahua/Lorex/Swann/rebranded-whatever are really putting serious competitive pressure on the price point of cameras. I've always been a big fan of Mobotix, Panasonic, etc but if the MTBF of any of this new stuff from Hikvision/Dahua is even remotely close, I can't see much reason to recommend those higher-priced brand-names (unless you need something specialized/specific, like VOIP capability built-in to the camera, which Mobotix does and other manufacturers don't).
I never thought I'd see a system-in-a-box deal that would make me consider recommending them... but the newer multi-megapixel IP stuff being sold by Swann/Lorex is really a quantum leap in quality... and for just over $1k, it's a serious value. Hell... a few years ago, you'd pay $1k PER CAMERA for some of the quality I'm seeing now in cameras that cost $200. I don't have any issue with comments made about HikVision or even Dahua, though I still place them solidly in Tier 3 with respect to Feature/Performance/Reliability and ease of setup. But Swann and Lorex shouldn't even be in the same zip code. Swann and Lorex are simply put bottom-feeder unreliable low resolution cameras. This is 12 years of surveillance experience talking, 99% of that specific expertise is related to cameras. I'm not saying never buy Swann or Lorex, but let's not kid ourselves, it's like putting an airsoft rated scope on your AR15. Sure it might work, but eventually it's going to fail or quickly non-zero or whatever. In a nutshell from top to bottom here's the quality stack (and I don't work for any of the companies I'm going to list below: Tier A Sony Panasonic Bosch Axis Vivotek Samsung Avigilon Tier B Tyco Pelco (used to be Tier A but they've slipped a lot lately) Arecont Vision Indigo Vision (also used to be really good but have slipped recently) IQinVision (same thing, used to be Tier A but have slipped the last few years) UTC Honeywell (only because they don't develop their own stuff, they OEM from Tier B suppliers) March Ganz Tier C HikVision Dahua Everfocus (their analog stuff is Tier A/B, but their network stuff is squarely Tier C ACTi Tier D (crap) Swann Lorex Costar K&C (their analog stuff is Tier B, but network stuff is Tier D) Wren |
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Posted: 3/7/2014 12:38:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheGrayMan]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OCsurfer411:
Hi, I'm new to posting to AR15.com but I use the site as a resource for personal firearm information all the time. I am a 12-year video surveillance expert, specializing in surveillance cameras, specifically network (IP) high definition cameras and related systems. You can ask any question you wish and I will answer it as best I can as a free service to my fellow gun owners. you can also email me at [email protected] for specific questions you have that you do not wish posted on this forum. I do work for a specific manufacturer, but my advice will ALWAYS be manufacturer agnostic. There are no dumb questions, ask me anything you wish to. I, however, am not... so it's good to have people who do this for a living. I am the forum Mod, but I am merely a dabbler in CCTV. Feel free to add/expand/comment on any of our camera-related content in this sub-forum.
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Posted: 3/7/2014 12:43:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheGrayMan]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OCsurfer411:
I don't have any issue with comments made about HikVision or even Dahua, though I still place them solidly in Tier 3 with respect to Feature/Performance/Reliability and ease of setup. But Swann and Lorex shouldn't even be in the same zip code. Swann and Lorex are simply put bottom-feeder unreliable low resolution cameras. This is 12 years of surveillance experience talking, 99% of that specific expertise is related to cameras. I'm not saying never buy Swann or Lorex, but let's not kid ourselves, it's like putting an airsoft rated scope on your AR15. Sure it might work, but eventually it's going to fail or quickly non-zero or whatever. I've never recommended the Swann/Lorex analog stuff, except for people who literally COULDN'T afford something better. I'm a huge fan of Panasonic, Mobotix, Vivotek, and Acti (though Acti is under serious competitive pressure from Hikvision/Dahua). My semi-recommendation on the Swann/Lorex stuff has been limited to specific recent IP offerings, which are really rebranded Hikvision hardware. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2014 1:10:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: quake]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OCsurfer411:...I don't have any issue with comments made about HikVision or even Dahua, though I still place them solidly in Tier 3 with respect to Feature/Performance/Reliability and ease of setup. But Swann and Lorex shouldn't even be in the same zip code.
...In a nutshell from top to bottom here's the quality stack... Curious - in your ranking list it sounds like you're talking about IP stuff, but wanted to clarify. Are you talking about analog or IP, and do you mean their cameras, their dvr's, or generally all-inclusive of both? I'd agree with your rankings pretty much, with one caveat regarding everfocus & dahua dvr's. Our work is 99% analog, and on analog dvr's, I'd frankly rather have a dahua over an everfocus; even if the dahua weren't less expensive. The user search-simplicity alone is worth a bunch to us, as it's simple enough that 'Fred & Ethel' can comfortably use it a lot easier than the everfocus search approach. (And searching is what, probably 95% of the interaction an end-user has with their DVR.) Don't know how many dahua dvr's we've installed, but if it's not a hundred it's real close to it. We've had exactly one go bad; the hard drive simply locked up. After two years and probably a hundred or so units, I can respect & accept that; especially when we're talking about a sub-$300 dvr. Depending on how our experiences go with the Cam-X (Hikvision oem) dvr's go, I may still go with a dahua dvr (with bosch & sony cameras) in the house we're about to build. That's probably about as strong a praise I can give a unit - using it myself. Couldn't agree more on the swann & lorex; and I'd include night owl in there as well. To me, they're like a Gen-1 night-vision scope - you can only appreciate them if you've never used a good one. I actually don't mind too much when someone tells me they've bought a kit from one of those brands; I know they either wouldn't spend the money for a better system anyway, or else they will eventually be calling us when they get frustrated with the junk they've bought.
Fwiw, I'm in a very rural setting now, owning a small integrator/installer company; but my background is actually large scale, albeit years ago. I left Tyco (simplex/grinnell) ten years ago, where I was the installation manager there for the state of Arkansas. |
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Posted: 4/27/2014 8:13:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: donnieR32]
[#50]
Thy Gray Man:
I have a question to add to my first questions. I have a relatively long driveway (320 ft or about 250 as the crow flies). If I wanted to attach a camera to the brick pillars near the bottom of the driveway so that I could monitor any activity coming into my house or by (my neighbor's kid just smashed my mailbox with a liquor bottle  ).
I need to know what my best option is for a camera that far from my house. Could I use wireless? Considering the low light levels I assume having the camera attached to the pillar would provide enough ambient lighting for NV or inferred (please advice if my terminology or theory is incorrect) to see anything in the area. Ideally, I'd like a set up that allows me to add cameras over time, I can review the footage, and connect a live feed to one TV in my house. Please, ask me any additional questions you have. Thanks in advance. |
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