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Posted: 7/17/2017 6:20:03 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crashburnrepeat:
which is good if they are going to keep upgrading models and dropping support for old ones. I'm trying to decide if I sell my MCX and get the upgrade to stay current? Or is this a wasted effort with Sig and they'll just do the same thing? Are they managed by the same people as KTM? Cause this is what KTM does too.... |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 10:11:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: coregon]
[#2]
Hey Guys - just to eliminate any confusion here, let me shed some light:
The Virtus now uses a tapered bolt. The carrier is exactly the same. MCX barrels WILL work in the Virtus, you just need to use the M16-style bolt that is in current MCX. The new Virtus barrels use the new tapered bolt. The barrels are designed so that if you put the wrong bolt with the wrong barrel, the weapon will NOT go into battery. If you buy a CALX/barrel kit going forward, it will be a Virtus model and WILL come with the tapered bolt required to use said barrel. We WILL continue to support the MCX. We have tenders and contracts on this gun and it will be in our production schedule for a long time. Support for the MCX is NOT going away. Handguards, etc will continue to be produced and be available. So, if you do not want to (also/upgrade to) purchase a Virtus, you will be perfectly fine with your existing MCX. The Virtus/MLOK hadnguards have a much better lockup/solid lockup, which now allows you to mount lasers/optics/BUIS, etc onto the rail sections and allow them repeatability/return-to-zero. Honestly, the only "issue" you're going to run into is that the new MLOK hand guards are the only thing NOT compatible with the MCX. Reason being, the upper/chassis of the MCX is longer than that which is on the Virtus going forward. So, while the attachment points are the same, the top rail on the MCX is too long for the new hand guard. Make sense? |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 10:15:24 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
Hey Guys - just to eliminate any confusion here, let me shed some light: The Virtus now uses a tapered bolt. The carrier is exactly the same. MCX barrels WILL work in the Virtus, you just need to use the M16-style bolt that is in current MCX. The new Virtus barrels use the new tapered bolt. The barrels are designed so that if you put the wrong bolt with the wrong barrel, the weapon will NOT go into battery. If you buy a CALX/barrel kit going forward, it will be a Virtus model and WILL come with the tapered bolt required to use said barrel. We WILL continue to support the MCX. We have tenders and contracts on this gun and it will be in our production schedule for a long time. Support for the MCX is NOT going away. Handguards, etc will continue to be produced and be available. So, if you do not want to (also/upgrade to) purchase a Virtus, you will be perfectly fine with your existing MCX. The Virtus/MLOK hadnguards have a much better lockup/solid lockup, which now allows you to mount lasers/optics/BUIS, etc onto the rail sections and allow them repeatability/return-to-zero. Honestly, the only "issue" you're going to run into is that the new MLOK hand guards are the only thing NOT compatible with the MCX. Reason being, the upper/chassis of the MCX is longer than that which is on the Virtus going forward. So, while the attachment points are the same, the top rail on the MCX is too long for the new hand guard. Make sense? Thank you 
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Posted: 7/18/2017 10:18:39 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HALFNATTYGAINZ:
That's some good info. Thank you I haven't been on much, of late. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 10:23:50 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
I sub'd to this thread - so, if anyone has any questions, i'll keep an eye on it and help in any way I can. I haven't been on much, of late. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 12:40:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
I sub'd to this thread - so, if anyone has any questions, i'll keep an eye on it and help in any way I can. I haven't been on much, of late. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 1:07:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:
Can you please 'plain how the new bolt(s) works? Tapered? I assume the barrel extension has the opposite taper? And will bolts for 300BLK and 5.56 still be the same? Yes, bolts for 300BO and 556 will be the same |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 1:57:26 PM EDT
[#8]
@coregon
so if I get a virtus barrel it will come with the new bolt? And I'll need to swap both the barrel and bolt? and another question, will the virtus uppers be compatible wit the older mcx lower? That's my main concern since mine is form 1'ed. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 1:59:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
It works like a standard M16 bolt, just the geometry is different (It doesn't look like an M16 bolt). Yes, bolts for 300BO and 556 will be the same Can you explain in detail how the new handguard lockup is better? Can you post a picture please that shows the difference in attachement? |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 2:08:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: coregon]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By right_rudder:
@coregon so if I get a virtus barrel it will come with the new bolt? And I'll need to swap both the barrel and bolt? and another question, will the virtus uppers be compatible wit the older mcx lower? That's my main concern since mine is form 1'ed. Yes, absolutely, lowers are completely compatible (nothing changed). |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 2:14:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By E4W:
I got my MCX after the carrier recall and it has a bolt that does not look like an AR15 bolt. It looks similar to an HK416 bolt - no gas ring and not cut down in the middle. It also looks like it has rounded ends to the lugs. Is this the new bolt? Can you explain in detail how the new handguard lockup is better? Can you post a picture please that shows the difference in attachement? The tolerances are tighter - the attachment is, generally, the same ( in terms of functionality, how it is retained, how it slides on rails, etc). The difference in the shorter chassis and more material, which allows for more stability. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 2:15:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
Will the standard upper be available still? I think there's a market demand for current issue configured guns (like Lvaw). |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 2:43:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
We WILL continue to support the MCX. We have tenders and contracts on this gun and it will be in our production schedule for a long time. Support for the MCX is NOT going away. Handguards, etc will continue to be produced and be available. So, if you do not want to (also/upgrade to) purchase a Virtus, you will be perfectly fine with your existing MCX. Make sense? Are the new virtus uppers going to be compatable with non SiG lowers also? like the MCX with the adapter/block? Any changes to the MPX series coming? I want to buy SiG again but am cautious now. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 2:56:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tim_McBride:
Call me skeptical after getting burned on the 55X series that SiG dropped all support for. But if true, it's good to hear and will go a long ways to rebuilding trust. Are the new virtus uppers going to be compatable with non SiG lowers also? like the MCX with the adapter/block? Any changes to the MPX series coming? I want to buy SiG again but am cautious now. Yes, they will be compatible with standard AR lowers with the adapter. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 3:12:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
I understand, believe me. But, this is definitely NOT the 55X series. We already have tenders and contracts on this gun, so we are required to continue servicing it. Not to mention the number of guns in the commercial market. I still have a couple of 55X guns, too - but, the MCX has outsold all of those 55X commercial guns combined. Yes, they will be compatible with standard AR lowers with the adapter. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
Call me skeptical after getting burned on the 55X series that SiG dropped all support for. But if true, it's good to hear and will go a long ways to rebuilding trust. Are the new virtus uppers going to be compatable with non SiG lowers also? like the MCX with the adapter/block? Any changes to the MPX series coming? I want to buy SiG again but am cautious now. Yes, they will be compatible with standard AR lowers with the adapter. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 3:28:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
That's probably the example I should have used. Yes, that is the new bolt. The tolerances are tighter - the attachment is, generally, the same ( in terms of functionality, how it is retained, how it slides on rails, etc). The difference in the shorter chassis and more material, which allows for more stability. Before anyone chimes in - I do know that Midwest Industries is making one. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/18/2017 4:44:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Thanks for the update. Are you able to give us an honest to God answer on the parts availability? I like to have spare parts that potentially may break. I don't want to rely on just sending it in to have them replaced or having to send in broken parts in order to buy a replacement.
Still waiting on the G marked FPS as well. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 4:46:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mark5pt56:
Thanks for the update. Are you able to give us an honest to God answer on the parts availability? I like to have spare parts that potentially may break. I don't want to rely on just sending it in to have them replaced or having to send in broken parts in order to buy a replacement. Still waiting on the G marked FPS as well. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 5:21:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mark5pt56:
Thanks for the update. Are you able to give us an honest to God answer on the parts availability? I like to have spare parts that potentially may break. I don't want to rely on just sending it in to have them replaced or having to send in broken parts in order to buy a replacement. Still waiting on the G marked FPS as well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mark5pt56:
Thanks for the update. Are you able to give us an honest to God answer on the parts availability? I like to have spare parts that potentially may break. I don't want to rely on just sending it in to have them replaced or having to send in broken parts in order to buy a replacement. Still waiting on the G marked FPS as well. Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
This is a huge thing for me also. I bought a CZ Bren, because I could go online and order any of the parts direct from CZ, so I have a spare bolt, barrel, etc... So, I know a lot of you have been patient already, but they are coming. The ability for end-user servicing on the MCX was/is one of the selling points and you will get them. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 5:40:15 PM EDT
[#20]
maybe I'm just slow today, but to confirm.. the bolt that was given in the recall is the bolt for the virtus?
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/18/2017 6:13:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Any ETA on possible AR15 -> Virtus conversion kits? Particularly for those of us with already SBR'd lowers. And Richie Rich with the machine gun lower.
When I called Sig CS a week or so ago the guy said he didn't know, but would guess around the end of the year. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/18/2017 6:29:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpyHawk:
Any ETA on possible AR15 -> Virtus conversion kits? Particularly for those of us with already SBR'd lowers. And Richie Rich with the machine gun lower. When I called Sig CS a week or so ago the guy said he didn't know, but would guess around the end of the year. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/18/2017 7:07:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By E4W:
I got my MCX after the carrier recall and it has a bolt that does not look like an AR15 bolt. It looks similar to an HK416 bolt - no gas ring and not cut down in the middle. It also looks like it has rounded ends to the lugs. Is this the new bolt? Can you explain in detail how the new handguard lockup is better? Can you post a picture please that shows the difference in attachement? |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/18/2017 9:19:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
Parts will be available and you will see more pouring out in the coming months. This is one of the things that was voiced during "how do we make this successful" type conversations. So, I know a lot of you have been patient already, but they are coming. The ability for end-user servicing on the MCX was/is one of the selling points and you will get them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
Originally Posted By mark5pt56:
Thanks for the update. Are you able to give us an honest to God answer on the parts availability? I like to have spare parts that potentially may break. I don't want to rely on just sending it in to have them replaced or having to send in broken parts in order to buy a replacement. Still waiting on the G marked FPS as well. Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
This is a huge thing for me also. I bought a CZ Bren, because I could go online and order any of the parts direct from CZ, so I have a spare bolt, barrel, etc... So, I know a lot of you have been patient already, but they are coming. The ability for end-user servicing on the MCX was/is one of the selling points and you will get them. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 10:41:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kgknight1037:
Could you post a picture of the bolt if you don't mind?  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 10:57:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistorySo this is what the Virtus bolt LOOKS like, except the lugs are different. The lugs are flat on this bolt (to match the MCX barrel extension).
I know I said above "yes, that's the new bolt". I should have said "yes, that's what the new bolts look like" - as in, they dont look like a traditional M16 bolt. You will be able to use that bolt with MCX barrels in the Virtus (Or the bolt that looks like a traditional M16) - but the Virtus bolts have the tapered lugs to match the Virtus barrels. Apologies for that confusion - I didn't complete my thought in my multi-tasking of trying to answer questions for you guys. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 10:58:55 PM EDT
[#27]
I am going to post some pictures of MCX vs Virtus later this week (hoping to get pics Thursday night and get them posted).
I will show comparisons of bolts, hand guards, barrel profiles, upper/chassis measurements, etc. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 11:00:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By right_rudder:
maybe I'm just slow today, but to confirm.. the bolt that was given in the recall is the bolt for the virtus? The pics that @E4W posted LOOK like the Virtus bolt, but the lugs are different. Apologies for that confusion. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 11:05:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
So this is what the Virtus bolt LOOKS like, except the lugs are different. The lugs are flat on this bolt (to match the MCX barrel extension). I know I said above "yes, that's the new bolt". I should have said "yes, that's what the new bolts look like" - as in, they dont look like a traditional M16 bolt. You will be able to use that bolt with MCX barrels in the Virtus (Or the bolt that looks like a traditional M16) - but the Virtus bolts have the tapered lugs to match the Virtus barrels. Apologies for that confusion - I didn't complete my thought in my multi-tasking of trying to answer questions for you guys. So if I buy a 300 Blackout barrel (CALX-MCX-16B-300B) that are in stock now will it work with my bolt? Will it come with a different bolt? I think I may just get rid of this gun after all. 
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Posted: 7/18/2017 11:12:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By E4W:
So what I have is some kind of interim bolt? Like the Virtus bolt, but not the same? How many versions of the bolt are there? So if I buy a 300 Blackout barrel (CALX-MCX-16B-300B) that are in stock now will it work with my bolt? Will it come with a different bolt? I think I may just get rid of this gun after all. Your bolt looks like the Virtus bolt, except the lugs are different. Don't sell it. You're definitely not at a disadvantage, your bolt is an upgraded model (think of the HK416 bolt mentioned above). There's a reason we moved to this style bolt. It aids in allowing the guns to reach that 20k round mark without replacing parts. IM me if you want to talk more. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/19/2017 3:44:38 AM EDT
[#31]
Coregon, Are you able to say WHEN spare parts can be purchased? Hoping not the Desert Tech/MDR, soon, two weeks, etc. answer. For the number of them out there supposedly that need support, one would think there would be spare parts available when one would like to order. I mean, dang, SIG is building guns, freaking parts come from somewhere. I get it, big contracts, etc. get the attention and the dollar, individual users, etc. maybe.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/19/2017 4:55:25 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
I understand, believe me. But, this is definitely NOT the 55X series. We already have tenders and contracts on this gun, so we are required to continue servicing it. Not to mention the number of guns in the commercial market. I still have a couple of 55X guns, too - but, the MCX has outsold all of those 55X commercial guns combined. Yes, they will be compatible with standard AR lowers with the adapter. |
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Posted: 7/19/2017 5:10:27 AM EDT
[#33]
What about the 7.62X39 conversion kit? Will that be part of the Virtus lineup?
It was touted as an option when the MCX first rolled out with Cabelas but seems to have dropped off the radar. Speaking of conversion kits it would be awesome if SIG would sell individual barrel parts. That was guys could have their own barrels made in 6.8, 277WLV, 7.62X40WT, etc. |
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Posted: 7/19/2017 5:17:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jack_Flag]
[#34]
Not to be a debbie downer. But after reading all of this and other things in the past.
I'm glad I sold my MCX a couple weeks ago. I just wish I never purchased it to begin with. Live and learn I guess. |
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Posted: 7/19/2017 11:54:45 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:
What about the 7.62X39 conversion kit? Will that be part of the Virtus lineup? It was touted as an option when the MCX first rolled out with Cabelas but seems to have dropped off the radar. Speaking of conversion kits it would be awesome if SIG would sell individual barrel parts. That was guys could have their own barrels made in 6.8, 277WLV, 7.62X40WT, etc. I don't understand companies not selling individual parts. The aftermarket accessories drive the gun scene right now. Sig would sell more guns in long run if they had a robust aftermarket they support through sales of parts. If barrel parts would be made available many companies could do custom barrel runs for as little as 150 units. If SiG is selling soooo many guns then it wouls be worth it. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/19/2017 12:59:11 PM EDT
[#36]
What kind of 7.62x39 MCX are we talking about? One that uses AR type 7.62 mags, or a new lower that uses AK pattern mags? If it's the former, AR mag guns in 7.62 rarely seem as reliable as guns using AK pattern mags.
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Posted: 7/19/2017 1:29:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willi3d:
What kind of 7.62x39 MCX are we talking about? One that uses AR type 7.62 mags, or a new lower that uses AK pattern mags? If it's the former, AR mag guns in 7.62 rarely seem as reliable as guns using AK pattern mags. |
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Posted: 7/19/2017 7:19:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bye_Felicia]
[#38]
Anyone have details on the 20k before replacing parts claim? What ammo and pressure?
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2017 6:43:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SpyHawk]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tim_McBride:
That used to be the case and the guns still suffer from this reputation. The current genIII C-Products Defense all have run flawlessly through my 7.62x39 AR. The current gen AR-Stoner mag I bought to test also ran great. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2017 7:01:22 AM EDT
[#40]
It has to be a matter of time before someone starts making parts for the platform other than handguards. Maybe a custom barrel would be the start. SIG should have a system also where one could build it from the get go like they wish vs. waiting for parts to come available post purchase. I guess no answer on the spare parts questions.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2017 2:26:48 AM EDT
[#41]
lol... former 556 owner here, had two and even got a Form 1 for the second one before I got tired of waiting on conversion parts for 18 months and thankfully bailed on it and got a stamp refund and sold the gun before Sig quasi-officially let it die.
And to paraphrase someone who lost their job six months ago, 'If you like your MCX, you can keep it' |
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USA
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Posted: 7/21/2017 9:33:34 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mark5pt56:
It has to be a matter of time before someone starts making parts for the platform other than handguards. Maybe a custom barrel would be the start. SIG should have a system also where one could build it from the get go like they wish vs. waiting for parts to come available post purchase. I guess no answer on the spare parts questions. |
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Posted: 7/21/2017 10:41:25 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glide2flip:
Why would anyone invest time, R&D efforts, and more importantly, money into making parts for a platform that is constantly changing and who's future support from the manufacturer is questionable at best? Hell, Sig can't even get promised parts to market for their own platforms. |
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Posted: 7/21/2017 10:51:22 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By snakeman48:
What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hell, Sig can't even get promised parts to market for their own platforms. When I needed warranty parts it took 3 months. I called a wweek week or so ago inquiring about the new MCX charging handle and was told they are not selling them. |
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Posted: 7/21/2017 11:07:32 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mark5pt56:
Coregon, Are you able to say WHEN spare parts can be purchased? Hoping not the Desert Tech/MDR, soon, two weeks, etc. answer. For the number of them out there supposedly that need support, one would think there would be spare parts available when one would like to order. I mean, dang, SIG is building guns, freaking parts come from somewhere. I get it, big contracts, etc. get the attention and the dollar, individual users, etc. maybe. I don't have an ETA, but have been told by the PM that it's close. |
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Posted: 7/21/2017 11:08:10 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:
What about the 7.62X39 conversion kit? Will that be part of the Virtus lineup? It was touted as an option when the MCX first rolled out with Cabelas but seems to have dropped off the radar. Speaking of conversion kits it would be awesome if SIG would sell individual barrel parts. That was guys could have their own barrels made in 6.8, 277WLV, 7.62X40WT, etc. 
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Posted: 7/21/2017 11:10:28 AM EDT
[#47]
Ill be taking those promised comparison pics and posting them this afternoon. Sorry for the delay, been traveling a bit this week.
Ill get them posted here ASAP. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2017 1:16:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mark5pt56]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
MCX parts will be rolling out first, then Virtus parts will start rolling out. I don't have an ETA, but have been told by the PM that it's close. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coregon:
Originally Posted By mark5pt56:
Coregon, Are you able to say WHEN spare parts can be purchased? Hoping not the Desert Tech/MDR, soon, two weeks, etc. answer. For the number of them out there supposedly that need support, one would think there would be spare parts available when one would like to order. I mean, dang, SIG is building guns, freaking parts come from somewhere. I get it, big contracts, etc. get the attention and the dollar, individual users, etc. maybe. I don't have an ETA, but have been told by the PM that it's close. 
Mark |
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Posted: 7/21/2017 1:24:22 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mark5pt56:
Coregon, I certainly appreciate what you are doing here, but any chance the "close" and start, etc can be nailed down? I really like this platform, but at some point one has a limit on supporting it if some results aren't seen. I didn't openly gripe about the recall, even when one had the recall and had to go back after the recall, I had an early one with a red bumper and that needed to be switched out.. I know this thread has morphed considerably but dang Tractor Supply is around the corner for the pitchforks
Mark Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mark5pt56:
Originally Posted By coregon:
Originally Posted By mark5pt56:
Coregon, Are you able to say WHEN spare parts can be purchased? Hoping not the Desert Tech/MDR, soon, two weeks, etc. answer. For the number of them out there supposedly that need support, one would think there would be spare parts available when one would like to order. I mean, dang, SIG is building guns, freaking parts come from somewhere. I get it, big contracts, etc. get the attention and the dollar, individual users, etc. maybe. I don't have an ETA, but have been told by the PM that it's close.
Mark |
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Posted: 7/21/2017 1:47:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Hopefully this isn't a derail but, since you mentioned it earlier, what contracts exist for the MCX? London Metro has been photo'ed quite often with these guns and I believe there were some Israeli commandos also seen carrying these rifles. Are there any other countries/units carrying these guns that you can disclose?
That might help settle the minds here knowing that X amount of units are running the old pattern. Plus it is interesting stuff to know who all is using these. |
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